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Sverdrup

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Sweetie and Dmitri:

Thank you so much for the wonderful tid-bits that you as very ol' and experienced salts are passing on to the masses. Often I react emotionally to first-hand experiences without sufficient data to back it up ... but it does indeed feel good to me, that your thorough experimentation and data backs up my feelings.

Talking like the true physicist here that I am ... hehe

P.S.: Pete ... I agree with you absolutely. My comments directed to you and your concerns as a paying customer (and those who finance blockades on dub oceans to the tune of 20 Mil poe/round with real $$$) was to emphasize and validate that you should have an influence on how the game is supposed to be designed ... while I, a free-loader, should have less influence.
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Sverdrup, CPTN of Schroedinger's Cat, Heisenberg's Uncertainty, Meridian
[Jul 11, 2011 8:50:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Therealhunta

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Throwing back the thread a tad bit.

Reviving the game is as simple as attracting more people to play ... der you say.. I agree.

But let's take a step back in time when YPP was publicly advertised in other online games in the way of ingame banners etc. One click = YPP home page.

With OOO now being affiliated with Sega, surely there are plenty of new avenues for the OOO team to push YPP to a new market. Plenty of online gamers out there have no idea what YPP is. With Spiral Knights also utilising Steam, surely that adds another possibility to market YPP.

I guess what I have mentioned is IMO how OOO can help us by promoting and marketing.

Another opinion of mine is how we as players can assist (and possibly the OMs in events..... read on).

About 2 years ago I created an event via my flag forums. The idea was simple;
Players were to "Promote" our flag and YPP by getting off the PC for an amount of time and advertise the game and our Flag to the masses in their local towns, cities etc.
The result?
Numerous banners were created, people turned their motor vehicles into rolling billboards by drawing colourful signs on the windows .. a few other ideas were also put into motion.
Out of this event, (which was made more out of curiosity to see the effects more than anything else) we had dozens of people log on, create accounts and contact us. Some of these people still play today.


Here's one of the posts from that event ^^


So yeah, just my 2 cents worth, but I honestly believe that the problem won't fix itself, and If we all want to keep on playing YPP, then maybe waiting on the action of a very busy company who's focus is not simply one game it currently attends to (even though they do try their best) then maybe we can find ways to assist each other in attracting more attention / Players.
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~~Hunta~~
RiddleMakers
Viridian Meridian Ocean
[Jul 12, 2011 8:11:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Aenor

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Let me tell you about something I noticed, and perhaps what it says about the current state of YPP.


Matey when I job on pillies and SMHs I only see puzzle standing mentioned in three contexts

#1 "Come pillage with me I'm a _____ (Renowned or whatever) bnaver!"

#2 "Looking for ______+ gunners" or /shouts like "Tell our XO if you're ____+ gunner!"

#3 "SMH looking for _____ sf only"

Why only these three? Why does nobody ever post a job offer with "We're looking for Leg sailors"?

Because it doesn't MATTER. A sailor who only scores Goods may not be adding his full capacity to the sail meter, but when all the sails are filled with Good jobbers, it is more than enough to get the ship underway at full speed in less than a minute, and provide enough moves for the bnavver to do his job.

Now, I routinely Sail as a Master/Excellent and can get into Renowned/Incredible status briefly when I focus. However, everything above Respected is just showoff territory for a Sailor. There is no economic, ingame demand for exceptional Sailors, only for adequate Sailors.

If the social context is bad for Sailors, it is about TEN TIMES WORSE for Bilgers and Carpenters. Their jobs only come into play when the ship gets holes blown into it. Meaning that apart from the weekend PvP blockades, there is close to zero demand for their puzzling. When my ship is humming along with full sails and no damage and I see one of my fellow jobbers is turning in Incredibles on bilge, I gotta lol because they might as well be playing Bejeweled - their superb puzzling has ZERO effect on the group effort of the pilly.

So basically:

Sailing - zero to low demand
Bilging and Carpenting - valued in blockades, fuggedaboutit elsewhere

Bnav & Swordfighting, by contrast, are extremely open-ended tasks. The difficulty of these puzzles scales up so high that there is every justification to demand superb SF standing when you go SMHing, and for a capn to advertise his Bnav standing.

Gunning is the only duty puzzle that approaches Bnav and Swordfighting in its ability to have an individual, specific, highly performance-linked impact on the outcome of a sea battle.

This is why OOO (wisely) put it behind a badge/permission wall, and why captains (wisely) check a pirate's stats before they let him or her gun. They will never do this on a Bilger.

Now I'm not dissing the duty puzzles. Sailing is my favorite puzzle taken completely out of this social context I mentioned. But there's no disguising that captains view the duty puzzles, gunning excepted, as drudge puzzles. All they're looking for are some warm bodies to fill the sails and pump the bilge.

If you don't agree, just look at this thread where established veteran players' attitudes amount to "Players are quitting? Meh, just make more bots to sail for me."

I believe jobbers quit, and oceans shrink, because players who get tired of the duty puzzles see no way to advance into other areas of the game.

The only way to get a gunning standing, AT ALL, is either to grind your way to Broad in each and every one of the duty puzzles, or to use the loophole where you quit a puzzle aboard a Navy vessel. The players who don't know that loophole, are looking at weeks (or months of casual play) stuck being a "warm body." And remember, EVEN when you're a full-fledged pirate with standings in all the puzzles, you still are miles away from other game experiences like owning your own sloop.

I mean no wonder they quit!

I've been thinking about this issue for a while, and you just put into words exactly what I've been wanting to say for a long time.

What makes this game different than every other MMO out there is that your success is supposed to be based on your success at puzzling. I've always prided myself as a good puzzler, and with the exception of a few puzzles I just don't enjoy playing very much, I made it one of my goals to become Ultimate in as many of them as i can.

But that's just a pride issue. From a practical point of view within the game, there's very little difference in any of the puzzles between being Renowned and being the #1 Ultimate. There are puzzle competitions, but as we all know the skills needed to win those having nothing to do with your ability to provide expert labor, or help the ship you're on win a pillage battle or survive a SMH.

Once you hit Renowned, the game doesn't reward you for getting any better. My own pride drove me on to get Ultimate, and I suppose I could continue to try to get better to climb up the Ultimate list or get some more #1 trophies, but those are solitary goals, and eventually I got bored of them. YPP had become a single player game for me where I kept trying to get higher and higher puzzle scores. But there are lots of great puzzle games like that, so I've mostly moved on to those.

What would be great would be some sort of voyage or SMH or expedition, or something, where getting a high incredible mattered compared to a low incredible, or where getting only an excellent wouldn't quite be good enough.

That's what would get me back into the game.
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Mat on the Meridian Ocean

Thank you to everyone who loves Blacksmithing!
[Jul 13, 2011 2:16:10 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
auron71

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One word: Updates

And I don't mean bug fixes / new colors / items. I mean actual content. As much as lots of people love to be able to buy "slightly lighter than light purple but darker than light light purple" clothing. These are not updates that will expand player base the game, . Yeah these things will get those people who buy dubs for everything to pay more. But unless actual things are released people will leave. People can only pillage against the same bots, do the same few expeditions, do the same SMH, and do the same few puzzles over and over.


Updates that the player is constantly working for something will get people to join and continue to play. Currently we only work for money for maybe another piece of clothing or another ship. The only ones who truly have something to work for I would say are those who are royals of big flags /island owners. The general masses (most of which will never be in a position to work to defend something they own or take something they want) NEED something (beyond crew/flag /puzzle rank) to work for.

Maybe instituting something like the navy's ranking system in new updates where we work to help out a group and the more you puzzle the more stuff you unlock. I don't want to go too in depth for suggestions here but there are plenty of things they could add to create long lasting content that is more than just a new familiar/pet/hat/ect.
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Seymour of viridian
[Jul 17, 2011 6:31:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
5017A

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From a new players point of view.

Instead of merging oceans why not just move oceans. Pirates that take longer to move will be harder done by I'd imagine.
[Jul 17, 2011 8:02:38 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Aenor

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People can only pillage against the same bots, do the same few expeditions, do the same SMH, and do the same few puzzles over and over.

I disagree with this. I still play Tetris, and find it fun, and probably will always find it fun, because there's still a challenge. No matter what score I get, I can always try for a higher score. There are lots of other puzzle games I think I could never get bored of. And the reason is what I mentioned earlier, that they continue to reward greater improvement.

And that's what PP lacks for me.
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Mat on the Meridian Ocean

Thank you to everyone who loves Blacksmithing!
[Jul 18, 2011 8:55:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BobJanova

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OOO have been releasing content (and not just shiny things) continually for the time I've been here. CI, rigging, foraging, weaving, HS, IOs, vikings, black boxes, expeditions, experience trophies (even if I hate those). I don't think lack of content is the problem. The problem is not being able to attract and hold onto new players, and the related problem that without the new players to job there is nothing for the older players to do either.

Shiny things for people to sink dubs on are important because if no-one sinks dubs, OOO go bust and there is no game for any of us. But don't let the shiny things distract you from there actually being new content quite regularly.
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Bobjanova on Viridian and Malachite
Shops and stalls with fair and profitable wages for all: Jubilee, Napi, Chelydra
Stripped/Barely Dressed (Malachite)
Phantasm/Reign of Chaos (Viridian)
[Jul 19, 2011 2:19:12 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
false_dmitri

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There's something of a lack of gameplay content. New puzzles are extremely rare, and most of the sea activities don't change much for the jobbers. IO and HS are prime examples of this. If you're tired of the duty station/melee routine, most of the newer stuff will fall flat.
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On hiatus. :(
[Jul 19, 2011 2:26:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shinito

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This would also give three rings the chance to implement some new features that have been snuffed by players due to it damaging property values (or similar issues). More specifically, the Titan. If the Titan were introduced at the beginning of this brand-new super server, every single shoppe owner would know the risk associated with owning a shoppe, and property values would reflect this risk from the very start.


EDIT: The way I see it, every ocean closing and a brand-new one opening is kind of like a rebirth for the game. Sure, plenty of players would be pissed off and possibly quit, but I think it would be better for the game in the long run. The current setup for the game has a very grim outlook for the long term. I'd rather three rings do something extreme now and risk killing the game (but also potentially hitting it with a defibrillator), over not doing anything significant and watching the game die a slow painful death.


I've seen something like this done before and it worked out fine. I use to play Evony, a free online game where you can pay for certain stuff. Anyways what happened is the game developers created a brand new game called Evony Age 2 and it was pretty much the same game with some added features and better graphics. The developers kept the old game however and allow people to still play it. In the end the new game suceeded and players migrated to it.

How this could work with YPP is that the Game Developers could create a new game/ocean which is better than all the already existing oceans. It'll have good graphics and have added features that couldn't be implemented in the current Game due to it being too old or w/e. People will move to the new ocean since it's better, however you can keep the older oceans, just don't add greenies to it. Eventually the older oceans will die out since people will have moved on to the New improved one.


Edit: Btw, shouldn't this thread be in the Game Design section, that way the Game Developers will see it.


That is a very good point! If a moderator wouldn't mind moving this over to game design I would appreciate it as well.

Marundel, you make a very very solid argument when you look at such a move from an economic standpoint for three rings. It simply wouldn't make sense. What do you think of the idea of a new and improved version of the game? How do you think that would play into the business end? I know I would be interested in Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates: Conquering Seas beta.


YPP 2!!!!


Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates 2 : The Search for More Players
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Thorkill on Malachite 2.0 Obsidian
[Jul 20, 2011 2:50:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
deadlyskull

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Actually, I was about to throw the idea of a sequel around. The only thing is that there isn't much that they can't do now that they would be able to do in a sequel version. My suggestion would be to close off some oceans(I can already hear the grumbles) and isolate the player base. Then they should have their devs work on a relaunch while they change some core mechanics to spice things up. Then they can release the newer version and ypp is saved?

I usually play ypp for a month/a few months out of the year but I consider myself "retired"(you can never quit ypp). People have been saying the game has been dying for years but I'm not trying to say they are completely wrong. The only way to put it is that you can't kill ypp...no matter how hard you try.
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Currently Deadbones on the hunter ocean
[Jul 20, 2011 8:26:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
DaneT

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I wish I had the energy to go over this topic for the twentieth time. How long have we been doing these threads for?

Edit: To not sound like a grouchy old man:
If you want revival, you make revival. The history of Midnight has proven time and time again that if you get a crew of players with the drive behind them to make something happen, stuff happens.

Heck, people were talking about ideas back when I was forum ether.
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It has been said, my friends, that I like war. My friends, I like War. No...I LOVE WAR!

Danet - An old salt of Y!PP, but not the oldest by a long shot.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by DaneT at Jul 22, 2011 4:51:29 AM]
[Jul 22, 2011 4:36:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Dougerarg

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I wish I had the energy to go over this topic for the twentieth time. How long have we been doing these threads for?

Edit: To not sound like a grouchy old man:
If you want revival, you make revival. The history of Midnight has proven time and time again that if you get a crew of players with the drive behind them to make something happen, stuff happens.

Heck, people were talking about ideas back when I was forum ether.


You would think these common complaints would warrant some sort of legitimate OM response, but all we get is a meager "We're working on it." Really? How? Can we get some updates? Perhaps your opinions? Your customers are becoming increasingly unhappy OOOs, so could you at least pretend to make an effort to show us you're working on fixing the number of players on your best game?
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Scervy of Hunter
Omnis on Sage

Retired YPP player. Miss all my old pals from long ago
[Jul 22, 2011 11:42:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Cnuofesd

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1 - Turn the individual puzzles into Facebook Applications. Use a diverse set i.e. Sails/Carp/Bilge and a few crafters

2 - In the individual puzzles, explain how you can unlock rewards in the Puzzle Pirates game through puzzling and earning money. Talk about Pets, Clothes and ships. Encourage players to try out the game to make the "Fun" they get out of puzzling more worthwhile.

3 - Advertise these individual puzzles on other Facebook apps such as Bejewlled, Tetris and get a load of players who would simply fall in love with the game trialing them out.

4 - Convert the individual puzzles to iPod applications.

You get a load of people who like spacial based problems and play them for fun, regardless of money being a motivational factor. Like football fans buy FIFA en masse, and CoDdicts will mindlessly buy FPS, sell Y!PP to those who will enjoy it most - those who love puzzles.

How to find them? Bejewelled!
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Capablanca on Emerald
My posts are not my own opinion.
[Jul 22, 2011 11:51:44 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
auron71

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People can only pillage against the same bots, do the same few expeditions, do the same SMH, and do the same few puzzles over and over.

I disagree with this. I still play Tetris, and find it fun, and probably will always find it fun, because there's still a challenge. No matter what score I get, I can always try for a higher score. There are lots of other puzzle games I think I could never get bored of. And the reason is what I mentioned earlier, that they continue to reward greater improvement.

And that's what PP lacks for me.


This is, in a sense, exactly what I meant. (Though obviously, I failed miserably to explain that) Yes the SMH and all that stuff is fun. But the majority of players are never truly rewarded for constantly puzzling and doing this things. A new trophy is nice sure. But that is a one-off thing and making money / getting item rewards to buy another article of clothing isn't enough for most players. As I said, island owners/governors/big flags get something else out of this. Funds to protect their island / run their flag and all that other good stuff. Things that most players won't experience.

Taking those players who may never get into positions of power as some of the big flag owners is important.

A few more updates that reward people for individual effort could go a long way in this game. Especially if the reward is something that isn't a piece of clothing. The reputation requirement clothing/furniture was a step in the right direction. Perhaps adding ships that only people who meet a certain requirement / spent a certain amount of time doing something / ect. could entice people. Especially if said ships are useful for their size (maybe excluding them from cades for balance purposes)

I had an idea of an NPC run arch or just a few islands (that we cannot cade) and they will be run by lets call them factions. Working more for a specific faction unlocks more stuff to buy for that group. You would rank up in a similar way to the navy (maybe requiring a certain proficiency level to achieve higher ranks). It's just a rough idea that could reward players. (boats, clothing, furniture, recipes, ect.)

As you said, YPP lacks reward for improvement. A little bit would go a long way for the game.
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Seymour of viridian
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by auron71 at Jul 26, 2011 10:19:41 PM]
[Jul 26, 2011 10:14:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Onelegstan



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If people are complaining about wanting more bots the best way would just be to get more people playing. If malachite was closed and something done with the sub oceans and it left with 1 sub and 3 dub oceans it would work well. No need to close oceans because there's not enough people when there are millions more people in the world who could play.

Say for example advertising the game, use miniclip again that's how many people started the game, as a lot of people on miniclip and other mini game websites are there because they are bored this would cure there boredom. It might cost to advertise initially but if the people join the game and enjoy it they will buy dubs which will help the game anyway, making them more money.

To sumarise

Close dead oceans

Advertise the game on miniclip, neopets, mousebreaker, Facebook ect.

Attract more people and make it easier for them to learn to play.

More people filling ships will mean none of the other problems will occur as the game will thrive and people will stay.

I can't see any downside at all to getting more people playing. Agreed?
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Martyhur on Emerald
Marty on Obsidian
[Jul 31, 2011 11:23:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Karnisov

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Close dead oceans


OOO seems to be taking the approach of letting players voluntarily change oceans without moving assets, they are probably afraid of losing customers if they close slow oceans.

 

Advertise the game on miniclip, neopets, mousebreaker, Facebook ect.


2 problems here.
1: The ads I have seen are targeted at the early teen demographic, most likely turning off potential older players.
2: Free ad-blocking software is widely available now as browser add-ons. Meaning that alot of people aren't seeing ads anymore.

 

I can't see any downside at all to getting more people playing. Agreed?


They've tried for a while to get and retain new players, it hasn't worked well. I think its time they start being realistic and just give us bots.
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Karnisov
flinging poo on the forums because its more fun than playing your broken game
[Aug 1, 2011 11:44:02 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Chiptharip

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Attracting new players isn't really a permanent measure. Even at "critical mass", most game activities are based on a really large pyramid scheme. This pyramid scheme causes turnover. We should be focused on retention.
[Aug 1, 2011 1:51:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Onelegstan



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well we all started off as new players, if no new players come in then the game will die anyway, whatever is changed. 0 players = 0 game.
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Martyhur on Emerald
Marty on Obsidian
[Aug 1, 2011 1:58:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sevenlyrcake

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I really would have no issue with losing everything and having only one dub ocean and one sub ocean. I think it would be a VERY interesting turn of events.
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Sevenlayers on the Midnight Ocean
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[Aug 1, 2011 2:29:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Demonboyred

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Closing dead oceans accomplishes nothing, aside from stopping the small amount of greenies that are being sent there to be sent to other, more active oceans, and losing several players that are already there, some of which that have bought countless numbers of dubs. OOO loses money in this manner. I don't see any oceans being closed until they reach the online population that crimson had, less than 30 at peak time.
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Bunnyspawn, Malachite's most arrogant player.

Also Bunnyspawn on Sage and Hunter;Disgraced on Viridian.

I support PvP in sinking environments.
[Aug 1, 2011 5:25:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
mytiny456



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Been a long time casual player here. I am a fan of the styles of games that OOO have put out. I even bought game money for the first time in my life (and I can be really cheap) when I bought gold playing Bang! Howdy. I don't want to see this game die like the other games OOO has put out. Obviously we are all starting to see the signs and that begins with the fact that there aren't too many updates coming in (real game updates). Bang! Howdy did not have any updates for three years after all, still having no updates.

Although Bang! Howdy had the potential to be a really good casual strategy game (mkre updates would be nice) I think YPP is a great social game that has a real economy to it. There lies the problem. The complexity of the different laws in economy left too many things unbalanced and the government, ruler, authority doesn't help so everything falls.

One observation: people say it was great before because you could fill WFs and whatnot. That just means that there were more jobbers to officers back then. Think about it. The games was still new 7-8 years ago so the people that did play didn't have the option to sail their own ship. Sad to say but I think the requirements of being officer, having priviledges, must be raised significantly. Just something to reduce the amount of people sailing these days. I was thinking that the badges should be way more expensive but the days only go down when you actually use it for a command (like sailing). So you can see the NB and judge for youself if it is wise to sail that day. Besides a pirate shouldn't feel as though he wasted a day because he doesn't use the badge. And the games can't afford everyone who has a badge to use it. There wouldn't be enough jobbers.

One more balance thing that might work is increase the prices of ships to be way higher. Maybe add a special commod for ships. This can facilitate trade for stalls but at the same time reduce the number of ships going out there. I don't know about that, though, because there are unlocked crew ships to use and I'm not that far in my economics class to predict the outcome on that.
[Aug 19, 2011 12:16:25 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lordchicken9

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I think we shud do the miniclip thing, doesn't club penguin have like the #1 spot like almost all the time and so many people play it,people we could have D:!We shud get PP as #1 xD

And yeah l like the idea of merging all dub oceans,maybe make a huge map with all of their islands combined XD so that people who memmed dont lose their memmed places and I really dont feel like restarting the entire game >_> ,people devote themselves to get like transcedent experience in a puzzle and just lose it there..or collect huge amounts of ships or trinkets of all colors just to lose it so yeah we shouldn't delete everyone and restart completely... That would probobly lose a lot of people and no collecting the trinkets 1 more time is not fun.xD If they do merge with transferring items that would be awesome for people trying to buy or sell things because now more are available to em to buy and more people to sell too prices might be weird in the beggining but itll adjust and if you don't like it don't sell or buy anything =o.

And its 2011 and I can still only see 1 side of the ship D:!I wanna see the other side that looks exactly the same but oposit lolol
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Chickenlord on Emerald

Helen Keller once said: The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched, they must be felt with the heart.
How would she know XD?

Captinary did the avatar :o with my recommandations on the
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