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Dougerarg

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Okay, it's clear that puzzle pirates is not doing as well as it once was. Subscriber oceans are at the brink of extinction and doubloon oceans don't see nearly the same level of activity even on weekends.

There are a lot of things that have contributed to the sudden decline in popularity. Perhaps it is three rings focus on other games, or the introduction of new game features that aren't appealing. Personally, I think that the developers of this game made one huge mistake that cost them greatly:

Expanding.

The player base was simply not large enough when three rings introduced malachite, opal, jade, and crimson. Even Hunter was a bit of a stretch. When the base was stretched too thin, people became separated and personal relationships were weakened with server barriers. As people began to become disinterested in the game, the last thing that could stop them from waiting for a new release was friends, who they no longer held strong bonds with.

Now, this may seem ridiculous, but I think that there may be some validity to this. I've observed many players from my home ocean of Hunter flocking to Sage because of the greater amount of overall activity. I propose that three rings consolidate the game into two new doubloon oceans, with some sort of personal-item, money, and stats transferal system (so that pirates don't have to start completely fresh,) and watch the chaos ensue.

Not only will this create a fresh new landscape, but player politics and relationships will become much more interesting once again. In the social experiment that we call yohoho! puzzle pirates I think it's clear that certain power alliances tend to take over an ocean and control it for as long as they like. I say three rings should mix it up once again, and make way for the rebirth of puzzle pirates, or else I fear the end of a once great game may be drawing near.

Thoughts?
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Scervy of Hunter
Omnis on Sage

Retired YPP player. Miss all my old pals from long ago
[Jun 29, 2011 8:27:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shawe

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Okay, it's clear that puzzle pirates is not doing as well as it once was. Subscriber oceans are at the brink of extinction and doubloon oceans don't see nearly the same level of activity even on weekends.

Agreed.

There are a lot of things that have contributed to the sudden decline in popularity. Perhaps it is three rings focus on other games, or the introduction of new game features that aren't appealing. Personally, I think that the developers of this game made one huge mistake that cost them greatly:

Expanding.


Expansion of their business is a good thing - everyone is happy when OOO has more business. The problem is that with the other games (not just Knights but this Dr. Who thing) they told us that it wouldn't subtract from the current YPP team, and that is just false.


The player base was simply not large enough when three rings introduced malachite, opal, jade, and crimson. Even Hunter was a bit of a stretch. When the base was stretched too thin, people became separated and personal relationships were weakened with server barriers. As people began to become disinterested in the game, the last thing that could stop them from waiting for a new release was friends, who they no longer held strong bonds with.

Agreed.

Now, this may seem ridiculous, but I think that there may be some validity to this. I've observed many players from my home ocean of Hunter flocking to Sage because of the greater amount of overall activity. I propose that three rings consolidate the game into two new doubloon oceans, with some sort of personal-item, money, and stats transferal system (so that pirates don't have to start completely fresh,) and watch the chaos ensue.

Agreed that something needs to be done - this is an impossible solution. People will quit if you do this to them.

Not only will this create a fresh new landscape, but player politics and relationships will become much more interesting once again. In the social experiment that we call yohoho! puzzle pirates I think it's clear that certain power alliances tend to take over an ocean and control it for as long as they like. I say three rings should mix it up once again, and make way for the rebirth of puzzle pirates, or else I fear the end of a once great game may be drawing near.

Thoughts?

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Shawe - Greed is good.
"FIGHT CLUB!" Avatars by Shawe.
[Jun 29, 2011 9:27:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Shawe [Link]  Go to top 
Fairfrozen

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I have been thinking, that instead of shoving every pirate from the different ocean onto just one, why not expand the ocean? Say, Hunter and midnight merge, Hunter will act as the base, Midnights archipelagos are put on the map and it functions as one ocean.

That way no one would loose shoppes, islands, fams, poes etc.
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Zackeh on Hunter
[Jun 30, 2011 3:46:00 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shawe

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^ POE has different values between different oceans - this would upset the economy just as much or more than dusting people's shops and fams
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Shawe - Greed is good.
"FIGHT CLUB!" Avatars by Shawe.
[Jun 30, 2011 7:59:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Shawe [Link]  Go to top 
warp11

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^Pretty much what she said, except it'd be impossible to merge a sub and a dub ocean.

Instead you can throw Sage, Virid, Mala and Hunter together by just patching the oceans into one big map. Everybody gets to keep their stuff.
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Dahl "I have higher moral standards" gren
[Jun 30, 2011 8:00:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Fairfrozen

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My example of hunter and Midnight merging was just that, an example.

If all sub and all dub oceans are merged this way the economy would be out of whack at first yes, but it would eventually become steady, there's also measures OM's could take to smoothen the process.

I believe this would be the most humane way to do this, it would enable shoppe owners to keep their shoppes, flags to keep their fleet and the normal pirate to keep whatever they have aquired over the month/years.

The idea of course has a few kinks that need working out, but imho, it's alot better than having winners and loosers, loosers who loose it all and winners for get to keep their things. My idea is more with the goal of having a win-win situation.
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Zackeh on Hunter
[Jun 30, 2011 8:04:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shawe

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^ consider the two ocean's on both extreme's - midnight and viridian. A colored fam is worth 5 mil on one ocean, and worth 500k on the other. What good is a merge with transition of items if the value of them is destroyed overnight? How is this winwin?
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Shawe - Greed is good.
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[Jun 30, 2011 8:15:21 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Shawe [Link]  Go to top 
nicolas_hop

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Yes indeed, I'd also like to see the oceans merging.
But this has been suggested many things before and it probably won't happen.
One of the problems is the naming system, since OOO wants every name to be unique.

But I agree of course, OOO needs to do 2 things: it has to close down some oceans and it has to work more on advertisements again. Since a large amount of the player base got into ypp this way, as can be seen in this thread.
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Natacha on the Hunter Ocean.
Captain of 'The Mystery Fleet'

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[Jun 30, 2011 11:01:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Robyand

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Instead you can throw Sage, Virid, Mala and Hunter together by just patching the oceans into one big map. Everybody gets to keep their stuff.


It is probably very easy just to say this, but it really isn't to do these major changes. For example, try to put together China, Mongolia and Nepal. Everyone knows how well developed is the economy of China, unlike Nepal and Mongolia. Imagine what would happen with the economy of all three countries. China's economy would have a significant decay because it has to raise up the other two countries; Mongolia and Nepal would die because they can't rise to China's demands. Anyway, back to the game, can you compare Viridian with Malachite? Just take a look at the colored familiars on Malachite which are about 1m and on Viridian they go up to 5m. This will represent a huge impact for the Malachite players. On the other hand dubs price will be also affected. Another thing is the pirates and renamed ships names. What do you think is the best thing to do if there is a player called Banana on Viridian, another Banana on Sage and maybe a Banana pirate on Hunter, and all different players? You can't remove the pirates and you also can't change the names without their permission and it would take a lot of time to chech all the similar names on the oceans. About the server... let's say they can make one that would be able to resist on 3000+ online players.

I have to admit that I really love the idea of getting one single ocean with more pirates on it. But it's not all about "dreaming", it represents a lot of work which indeed takes a lot of time. So instead of dreaming, you should think how you can make it become true. This is harder to do, right?

Anyway, I think Puzzle Pirates should be advertised again on Miniclip. Most of the people have found it there. Now it isn't anymore and we can see the consequences.
[Jun 30, 2011 1:30:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
moonmaiden79

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I've thought about these issues for a long time, well before we've reached the scarceness of today's populations on sub oceans. I think that one of the huge problems is and always has been that it seems impossible to most greenies to achieve that of which many retired pirates have. They will never own an inn, get to build a shoppe, (because islands are rarely built upon anymore,) and most likely never win an island because they will never be able to win the popularity contest against dead pirates. The social mechanics of island owners who will never let go of their island causes a lot of problems for new players. What's the point of building up millions of poe and ships and stock if you'll never gain the support of the populations because of the mentality that the island will need to be pried from their cold dead fingers, even thought they almost never really play anymore. I've seen pirates brought back from the dead multiple times just to job for blockades to prevent progress of the ocean- do they remain active, maybe for a day or two, but eventually they leave again. Many of these players were in their prime back in 2005, 2006 and haven't been legitimately active since 2008 or so.

What about closing down both Midnight and Cobalt, and making one new ocean for subscribers. I can already hear the crying about losing all the wealth from years of work, trust me I too would be very disappointed to lose my fam, my renamed ships my nice fancy house, clothes, etc. But I would much rather log on to a single ocean that had 400+ pirates active than a dead one where all my hard earned booty gathers dust because there isn't anything to do with it all...

Perhaps it would be only fair for OOO to allow the cross over of 1 (and ONLY 1) fam and maybe even 1 ship deed per pirate as well as a name reservation for 1 pirate. Cases of dual names for ships or pirates would have to be dealt with on an individual basis and maybe there could be an additional bonus for giving up a name in case of a dispute? I think it would be a limited time offer of say, 60 days to request this transfer, after that first come first serve and no perks from your previous ocean. It would be an incredible amount of work to do the initial transfer, (going through each individual pirate transfer request to confirm the fam, deed and pirate name on each account.) But the possible result might be that more of the newer players would be willing to stay and work to build up new pirates, new identities, new everything, instead of quitting out of boredom under the tyranny of retired pirates that will never let go.

I think they might be able to make an exception of re-releasing some LEs that were from years past during the applicable months too.

I've seen it mentioned in other threads that OOO has every customers email so even nonactive pirates would be able to make the request if they cared to.

I don't know the culture of green oceans well enough to say, but maybe you could do the same thing. Maybe it would be prudent to do this experiment only on the sub oceans and then wait and see if it seems worth it to do it to the others. The sub oceans are clearly dying though... It might be worth it to do something crazy and risky to spark interest in the game again?

(2 edits: wording)
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Stabatha- Tarts of Doom, Obsidian
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by moonmaiden79 at Jun 30, 2011 7:03:20 PM]
[Jun 30, 2011 6:53:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Dougerarg

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If we're going to look at this realistically, there is simply no way that three rings will make such complex move such as combining oceans. It's wishful thinking at best. Combining islands... distributing wealth... too much. Want to revive puzzle pirates? Close every ocean. Every single one. Re-open one subscriber ocean and one doubloon ocean and watch the chaos ensue! The amount of activity would skyrocket.

Personally I would be very disappointed to lose all of my trophies, possessions, shops, and PoE; but that would be wiped away with the new found energy that such a move would bring to the game. The player base needs to re-consolidate.

Plus, since we know that history repeats itself, we can look forward to a second "rebirth" in another ten years, when the game has come full circle once again and found itself in a stale, pale, and frail situation.

Also, advertise on miniclip again. For the love of god, just do it.

Moar thoughts?
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Scervy of Hunter
Omnis on Sage

Retired YPP player. Miss all my old pals from long ago
[Jun 30, 2011 11:15:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
pomfret

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As proven by Malachite. New oceans does not lead to more sustainable activity. Sure, there will be an initial burst lasting about a month. Then it will die off even faster than established oceans. What is needed is something that can be done in less than 30 minutes, does not involve mandatory waiting, and the result of which can be aggregated towards achieving a bigger goal. No, I don't mean just accumulating poe because after the first million or so, there isn't really much point watching the number grow.
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Pomfret of Midnight Cerulean and Most Oceans
Except when I am Scroogie or somebody else

Stupid merger made me change my signature...
[Jun 30, 2011 11:47:53 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
nicolas_hop

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I think closing all oceans won't be a doable scenario either, OOO would get too much protest and it'd probably lose a bunch of players doing this. I'm sure there are a lot of pirates willing to do this, but I'm certain there are more that aren't. I'm not seeing thousands of pirates giving up their belongings just for the game to get more players, that simply won't happen. Closing Malachite and Hunter perhaps, is a possible scenario.

Also about advertising on miniclip? Well, is it still as popular as it used to be? (I really don't know, I never go to such sites anymore)
Though OOO promised to begin a new marketing programme , I have yet to see the effects of it.

We can only solve this problem by simple solutions, not complex ones that take too much time, effort and money. That's why I think closing more oceans is the only possible solution [from the suggestions].


EDIT: I also think 2 more things should happen
  • Y!PP needs a bit of a modern touch. Everyone that logs on this game can see it's been created years ago, I think Dachimpy stated this somewhere in Game Design too. And I'm not talking about the fact we look like Playmobil people, I'm personally very fond of that. But if we could just change the crew/house/ye/booty/ahoy panel and date up with a modern interface, I personally think it'd already be a big improvement. Also get rid of all the ugly blue buttons [for deporting, leaving the ship, cashing in,... ] and replace them by better looking ones.

    Let's not forget first impressions are very important and are probably the deciding factors to why a pirate would test this game or not.

  • Secondly I think pirates who are new to the game should come in a sort of pre-ocean before getting launched on the real ocean. Almost every game has this and it's good for new players to get introduced with the game. OOO has tried this a little with the Captain coming on the screen and telling you all sort of tips, but I personally think it's better that pirates get isolated from the real oceans first.
    Maybe this pre-ocean should also be accessible for greeters to come and give personal advise to newer players. I think only greeters that have real intentions to help new players would visit this ocean.
Any comments?
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Natacha on the Hunter Ocean.
Captain of 'The Mystery Fleet'

Avatar by me

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by nicolas_hop at Jul 1, 2011 2:05:32 AM]
[Jul 1, 2011 1:52:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Fairfrozen

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^ consider the two ocean's on both extreme's - midnight and viridian. A colored fam is worth 5 mil on one ocean, and worth 500k on the other. What good is a merge with transition of items if the value of them is destroyed overnight? How is this winwin?


That's why I recified my earlier example and said sub oceans should merge, and dub oceans should merge. Seperatedly.
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Zackeh on Hunter
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Noctuelle13

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  • Secondly I think pirates who are new to the game should come in a sort of pre-ocean before getting launched on the real ocean. Almost every game has this and it's good for new players to get introduced with the game. OOO has tried this a little with the Captain coming on the screen and telling you all sort of tips, but I personally think it's better that pirates get isolated from the real oceans first.
    Maybe this pre-ocean should also be accessible for greeters to come and give personal advise to newer players. I think only greeters that have real intentions to help new players would visit this ocean.Any comments?

  • For some reason, I don't think this would do any good. New players would maybe get bored with it even faster.


    But I too would love to see less oceans.
    Like, 2 sub and 2 dub ocenas would be perfect, IMHO.
    Either this, or do something to bring lots of new players, so the existing oceans aren't so empty (AKA Malachite - it's pretty dead on Malachite).
    ----------------------------------------
    Remember yesterday. Live today. Believe in tomorrow.

    Noctuelle of Drogeo, Malachite
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    [Edit 1 times, last edit by Noctuelle13 at Jul 1, 2011 6:08:54 AM]
    [Jul 1, 2011 6:07:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    nicolas_hop

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    I mean with the introduction world, just a short 15 min trip where they get explained the basics of the game without being able to do anything else yet, without being able to get distracted.
    I'd also like to see that these new pirates get paid little amounts of PoE (like 15 PoE for completing a tiny mission) while being in this world so they get an appealing start.
    ----------------------------------------
    Natacha on the Hunter Ocean.
    Captain of 'The Mystery Fleet'

    Avatar by me

    [Jul 1, 2011 6:27:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    Noctuelle13

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    Ah, I see. That'd be ok I guess :)
    ----------------------------------------
    Remember yesterday. Live today. Believe in tomorrow.

    Noctuelle of Drogeo, Malachite
    [Jul 1, 2011 6:33:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    marundel

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    I've played a number of other games where I got 30 days of full subscriber benefits before being asked for money. If the game is good, they've usually gotten my money.

    I've played other games where I've been forced to go through a tutorial rather than simply encouraged (if I'm not forced, I hit the "Play Now" button and move on - mostly to my own detriment, but it's human nature.)

    I've played other games with better graphics (not really as much of an appeal as it would seem, since it slows my computer down something fierce.)

    Mostly, though... I've played other games where I don't have to rely on 6 or 29 or 74 other people to want to play with me in order to start an adventure. Oddly, I tend to return more often to the games that allow me to actually play when I am able to log in than I do the games that require me to sit around twiddling my thumbs and waiting for an "applicant" or six to be able to enjoy my $49.95 a year.
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    Pizzahutpete on the Cerulean Ocean
    Prince, Super Awesomeness
    SO, Boochin' Drunks

    Pizzahutpete everywhere, thanks to the merge
    [Jul 1, 2011 7:07:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.thehomebrewstore.com    meadbrewer [Link]  Go to top 
    Mysterio

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    I have been thinking, that instead of shoving every pirate from the different ocean onto just one, why not expand the ocean? Say, Hunter and midnight merge, Hunter will act as the base, Midnights archipelagos are put on the map and it functions as one ocean.

    That way no one would loose shoppes, islands, fams, poes etc.


    Intresting but hunter is a dabloon ocean midngiht is a sub ocean. So if any ocean get merged with any oceans they got to be the same ie sub oceans merge with sub oceans and dubs merged with dubs.

    Also Midnight would be the base of any ocean since there all modeled after it after all it was here first before any other production ocean.


    Next last but not least oceans wont get merged they get shut down and then its upto you to go find a new ocean to play on
    ----------------------------------------
    Blackjammer, 17th Captain of the Mad Mutineers,
    The most intresting pirate of midnight
    http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Blackjammer
    Stay puzzling my friends
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    [Edit 2 times, last edit by Mysterio at Jul 1, 2011 10:50:35 AM]
    [Jul 1, 2011 10:47:40 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    Strider399

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    As proven by Malachite. New oceans does not lead to more sustainable activity. Sure, there will be an initial burst lasting about a month. Then it will die off even faster than established oceans. What is needed is something that can be done in less than 30 minutes, does not involve mandatory waiting, and the result of which can be aggregated towards achieving a bigger goal. No, I don't mean just accumulating poe because after the first million or so, there isn't really much point watching the number grow.


    What happened on Malachite is not a reasonable gauge to guesstimate how closing every ocean and opening a new one would play out. Every seasoned player that moved to Malachite had a home ocean to go back to. If every single ocean was closed, people would be essentially forced to play on the brand new ocean that opened regardless of what ocean they originated from.

    The more I that I think about it, the more I actually like the idea of every ocean being closed and one re-opened. People need to be less attached to their pixels. If every ocean were closed, I would NOT want any way of transferring items. I personally would have no issue giving up all of my possessions if every single pirate had to start from scratch. This raises the very important problem of what to do with leftover doubloons from the current oceans, and I don't know a reasonable solution.

    The only solution I'm able to come up with is three rings should issue every single pirate that has purchased doubloons in the past year "free doubloons" equal to the number of doubloons they purchased over the past year.

    For example, if a person were to purchase the 42 doubloon package 10 times over the past year, three rings would give that person 420 doubloons on the new ocean. I realize this is somewhat contradictory to my earlier statement about every player having a fresh start, but it would be bad for business for three rings to not compensate the players that have contributed real life dollars to the games development.

    This would also give three rings the chance to implement some new features that have been snuffed by players due to it damaging property values (or similar issues). More specifically, the Titan. If the Titan were introduced at the beginning of this brand-new super server, every single shoppe owner would know the risk associated with owning a shoppe, and property values would reflect this risk from the very start.


    EDIT: The way I see it, every ocean closing and a brand-new one opening is kind of like a rebirth for the game. Sure, plenty of players would be pissed off and possibly quit, but I think it would be better for the game in the long run. The current setup for the game has a very grim outlook for the long term. I'd rather three rings do something extreme now and risk killing the game (but also potentially hitting it with a defibrillator), over not doing anything significant and watching the game die a slow painful death.
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    Sid on Obsidian

    Striderrs everywhere else
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    [Edit 2 times, last edit by Strider399 at Jul 1, 2011 1:25:12 PM]
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    Dougerarg

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    Couldn't have said it better sid. It's a pretty dire situation it seems. Either three rings does something drastic and bold, or the games dies slowly.

    Think about if every pirate gives up all of their possessions and starts from scratch, it seems like it's a bad idea right? But if you really think about it the idea seems much more appealing, because once again you find yourself in a game on an even keel where you have to fight to get back to the top. Wars, Politics, PoE, Puzzling... revived.

    We should clear y!pp's chest and prepare the defibrillator. Charging...

    [edit] It sure would be interesting to hear an OM's take on this...
    ----------------------------------------
    Scervy of Hunter
    Omnis on Sage

    Retired YPP player. Miss all my old pals from long ago
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    [Edit 1 times, last edit by Dougerarg at Jul 1, 2011 4:54:48 PM]
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    marundel

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    I prefer to look at it from this perspective. The economy is poor. People have to make some hard decisions about discretionary spending. Luxuries get cut first, followed by niceties, followed by the lesser necessities. Online gaming for many people is not a necessity, and is therefore sooner cut than other things - even other niceties like mobile phones. One thing that keeps many of the current players as paying customers is the vested interest they have built up in the game over the years. Someone who has spent countless hours building a fleet, acquiring shops, choosing a wardrobe or furnishing/decorating a house or inn has an attachment to these things that keeps them coming back to the game even if their overall playing interest may have waned a bit with time. I know many players who have supposedly left Y!PP for other games that still "check in" periodically because of those attachements. True, some also come back just to visit friends or because they heard about a particular blockade... but some come back because they built an economic empire, and they want to ensure that it continues to function. In the almost 7 months that I just couldn't stand the game in general, I still logged in every 3 days to move stock and update labor for my various shops and stalls (I'm now nearly back to my normal playing schedule.) Take away that vested interest, and there will be a loss of players. There will of course be many who simply take the opportunity to check out other games. Maybe they come back and maybe they don't. There will be others who consider it the final straw and never return. There will be others who will embrace the move.

    But consider this - in my previous business training, my leadership always told me that it takes 10 times as much effort and money to attract a new customer as it does to keep a current customer. What amounts to a completely new game will require a complete reworking of all marketing and advertising to match the new construct. The same effort and dollar cost will result in a population base about half of what it is now. This may work if there were only a single sub ocean or a single doub ocean (or even one of each) as far as having the population numbers on the ocean rise... but it doesn't exactly stimulate income at the corporate levels. Yes - fewer servers is less expenditure, but the infrastructure of Developers, OMs, office space, utilities, etc are all still there. Remember that once a business is established, a 100% increase in customer base only requires about a 20% increase in infrastructure - that's why growth is important.

    So - a lot of words. What's my bottom line? Do a cost analysis with a legitimate evaluation of return on investment. If it makes sense to trash everything and start over, so be it. My 8 paid annual subscription accounts is betting that it doesn't make sense.
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    [Jul 1, 2011 5:18:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.thehomebrewstore.com    meadbrewer [Link]  Go to top 
    Pwnzones

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    This would also give three rings the chance to implement some new features that have been snuffed by players due to it damaging property values (or similar issues). More specifically, the Titan. If the Titan were introduced at the beginning of this brand-new super server, every single shoppe owner would know the risk associated with owning a shoppe, and property values would reflect this risk from the very start.


    EDIT: The way I see it, every ocean closing and a brand-new one opening is kind of like a rebirth for the game. Sure, plenty of players would be pissed off and possibly quit, but I think it would be better for the game in the long run. The current setup for the game has a very grim outlook for the long term. I'd rather three rings do something extreme now and risk killing the game (but also potentially hitting it with a defibrillator), over not doing anything significant and watching the game die a slow painful death.


    I've seen something like this done before and it worked out fine. I use to play Evony, a free online game where you can pay for certain stuff. Anyways what happened is the game developers created a brand new game called Evony Age 2 and it was pretty much the same game with some added features and better graphics. The developers kept the old game however and allow people to still play it. In the end the new game suceeded and players migrated to it.

    How this could work with YPP is that the Game Developers could create a new game/ocean which is better than all the already existing oceans. It'll have good graphics and have added features that couldn't be implemented in the current Game due to it being too old or w/e. People will move to the new ocean since it's better, however you can keep the older oceans, just don't add greenies to it. Eventually the older oceans will die out since people will have moved on to the New improved one.


    Edit: Btw, shouldn't this thread be in the Game Design section, that way the Game Developers will see it.
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    [Edit 1 times, last edit by Pwnzones at Jul 1, 2011 8:01:39 PM]
    [Jul 1, 2011 7:56:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    Dougerarg

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    This would also give three rings the chance to implement some new features that have been snuffed by players due to it damaging property values (or similar issues). More specifically, the Titan. If the Titan were introduced at the beginning of this brand-new super server, every single shoppe owner would know the risk associated with owning a shoppe, and property values would reflect this risk from the very start.


    EDIT: The way I see it, every ocean closing and a brand-new one opening is kind of like a rebirth for the game. Sure, plenty of players would be pissed off and possibly quit, but I think it would be better for the game in the long run. The current setup for the game has a very grim outlook for the long term. I'd rather three rings do something extreme now and risk killing the game (but also potentially hitting it with a defibrillator), over not doing anything significant and watching the game die a slow painful death.


    I've seen something like this done before and it worked out fine. I use to play Evony, a free online game where you can pay for certain stuff. Anyways what happened is the game developers created a brand new game called Evony Age 2 and it was pretty much the same game with some added features and better graphics. The developers kept the old game however and allow people to still play it. In the end the new game suceeded and players migrated to it.

    How this could work with YPP is that the Game Developers could create a new game/ocean which is better than all the already existing oceans. It'll have good graphics and have added features that couldn't be implemented in the current Game due to it being too old or w/e. People will move to the new ocean since it's better, however you can keep the older oceans, just don't add greenies to it. Eventually the older oceans will die out since people will have moved on to the New improved one.


    Edit: Btw, shouldn't this thread be in the Game Design section, that way the Game Developers will see it.


    That is a very good point! If a moderator wouldn't mind moving this over to game design I would appreciate it as well.

    Marundel, you make a very very solid argument when you look at such a move from an economic standpoint for three rings. It simply wouldn't make sense. What do you think of the idea of a new and improved version of the game? How do you think that would play into the business end? I know I would be interested in Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates: Conquering Seas beta.
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    [Edit 1 times, last edit by Dougerarg at Jul 1, 2011 8:27:50 PM]
    [Jul 1, 2011 8:27:15 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    marundel

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    Marundel, you make a very very solid argument when you look at such a move from an economic standpoint for three rings. It simply wouldn't make sense. What do you think of the idea of a new and improved version of the game? How do you think that would play into the business end? I know I would be interested in Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates: Conquering Seas beta.

    Well, I can only speak from my own experience on that. As a player, every time a game I'm involved in opens up a "subset", I check it out. Sometimes I stick around, sometimes the subset just doesn't appeal to me. With the current OOO infrastructure, the question would be, would the extra servers be a small expense or a large expense in terms of equipment, maintenance, and game design; and would that expense be made up in additional paying players. Also, would it be set up as it is now where doubloons can transfer wealth between green oceans, and a sub on one blue ocean is a sub on both? ...or would it be like most games of multiple iterations where each one is treated as a completely separate game with completely separate accounts?

    I for one would have liked to see many of the current aspects of the game broken out into said worlds - had the original game stayed true to the "golden age of piracy" genre, the ancient Mediterranean (which could have included Roman/medieval European as well as the Arabic), Chinese, Norse/viking, and any future additions could have been added as a new chapter on it's own server. Atlantis could have been added to the ancient Med genre (Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates: Crusaders); Viking raids added to the Norse genre (Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates: Drakkar's Quest); CI belongs in the original iteration since it's Caribbean in nature; and so on. Ship types, BKs, furniture, clothing, etc. available on each genre would be peculiar to that genre. Game functions such as pillages, flotillas, blockades, etc. would be the same on each server.
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    [Jul 2, 2011 9:33:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.thehomebrewstore.com    meadbrewer [Link]  Go to top 
    Lolwat

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    I think the most effective way to fix YPP would be to shut down all the oceans and create two oceans, one doubloon and one subscriber.

    I think this is the most effective method for doubloon oceans:

    2. Shut down Doubloon transfers between oceans.
    Reason: This will prevent players from selling all their items, etc, on a dying ocean and move their doubloons to another ocean to up their items' value.

    3. Control the Doubloon Exchange Rate.
    How: Make it so you can't sell doubloons. You can only buy 'special' doubloons from OOO. The prices would be based off all the oceans' economy in ratios. For instance, if Viridian doubloons were going for 2565 poe, sage 3760 poe and Malachite 4304 poe, they would be changed into
    Viridian: 2500 poe per doubloon (5:1)
    Sage: 3500 poe per doubloon (7:1)
    Malachite: 4000 per doubloon (8:1)
    Reason: If players are informed that all of the oceans would shut down and a new ocean would replace them, doubloon prices would skyrocket as players rush to turn their PoE into doubloons.

    4. Establish a Buy-Back Program
    Reason: Vessels, Clothings, islands, materials, and so on would not be wanted by the public since they would dust when their ocean die.
    How: Buy them via poe through a fixed rate.

    5. Establish a "Transfer Ocean" after all the oceans have been wiped out.
    Reason: Just wiping out all the oceans and replacing it with a new ocean would not solve all the problems, such as same names on different oceans, more than three characters on one account, etc. While still letting players play poker etc.
    How: All pirates name would have their name AND the ocean they are from in gameplay. For instance, Leech [VIRIDIAN]. It will also let doubloons be shared through one accounts' characters once again. For instance, Leech [VIRIDIAN] had 200 doubloons and Leeches [MALACHITE] had 50 doubloons and they are characters on one account, they are now merged into one stack. Leech [VIRIDIAN] has 250 doubloons now. It will also list all the player's characters, giving them a specific time limit to reduce their characters to three (if they have more than three). It will allow players to rename their characters, "Leech [VIRIDIAN] has been renamed to Monster". During their stay on the ocean, their names would be something like this:
    Monster
    Leech [VIRIDIAN]
    this will allow their hearties etc to acknowledge the character, etc, etc.
    Also wipe out all crews and flags before a new ocean is created.

    6. Create a new Ocean
    The end ocean. Also buy doubloons at a fixed rate for a while.

    7. When new players join the game, ask if they want to pay monthly or not have to pay at all.
    This will make it easier for players to understand and like the game more than being assigned a random ocean.

    8. Make the game available on iPad.
    Please. :S


    I know this plan has a lot of flaws but I think it's a decent one and the easiest way to merge all the oceans. I would say this whole transition plan would take maybe 1-2 months to perform.
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    [Edit 1 times, last edit by Lolwat at Jul 2, 2011 6:14:28 PM]
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    false_dmitri

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    Lolwat wrote: 
    If players are informed that all of the oceans would shut down and a new ocean would replace them, doubloon prices would skyrocket as players rush to turn their PoE into doubloons.

    Regardless of price, the supply of doubloons would dry up immediately, because nobody would want to sell them for obsolete PoE.
    marundel wrote: 
    I for one would have liked to see many of the current aspects of the game broken out into said worlds - had the original game stayed true to the "golden age of piracy" genre, the ancient Mediterranean (which could have included Roman/medieval European as well as the Arabic), Chinese, Norse/viking, and any future additions could have been added as a new chapter on it's own server.

    It crossed my mind a while back that going that route could have opened the door to fresh puzzle content, since there's no need to worry about balancing against the old puzzles in a new environment. Plus it might have appealed more people who like the puzzle-world but dislike the pirate theme. But doing all that would be a major undertaking with no guarantee it would pay off compared to something like Atlantis or CI.
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    Lolwat

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    Lolwat wrote: 
    If players are informed that all of the oceans would shut down and a new ocean would replace them, doubloon prices would skyrocket as players rush to turn their PoE into doubloons.

    Regardless of price, the supply of doubloons would dry up immediately, because nobody would want to sell them for obsolete PoE.


    To make it more clear, i think it should be Three Rings that sell the doubs.
    And yeah, didn't think that people wouldn't want to sell their doubs lol.
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    [Edit 1 times, last edit by Lolwat at Jul 2, 2011 7:30:14 PM]
    [Jul 2, 2011 7:28:29 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
    marundel

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    In addition to the many issues described in this (and numerous others) thread, the root issue will not be solved by ocean merger. That is that there is a significantly larger number of people who want to pilot a ship than there are shiploads of people wanting to puzzle on them. Whether your ocean has an online population of 150 or 1500, a ratio of 1 pilot for every 3 jobbers does not sail a sloop; 1 pilot for every 10 jobbers does not sail a war brig; and so on. Revive the ability of pilots to take out the ship of their choice on the adventure of their choice during their available login time (no 2-hour wait for jobbers), and watch the activity levels rise - regardless of the population online at the time.
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    [Jul 2, 2011 8:35:45 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.thehomebrewstore.com    meadbrewer [Link]  Go to top 
    BobJanova

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    Marundel, that is true up to a point, but when the total population is 71 (Midnight), 66 (Cobalt) or 36 (Malachite), whole sections of the game are unplayable. If there's 1500 but only 9 jobbers per captain, at least that means there are still over 1000 people prepared to job, and some Atlantis/WF flotilla/etc can fill.

    Something like this could work but only if the new ocean is also a major release with some long awaited new features. A significant proportion of current players would quit with the loss of their pixel assets, and you'd have to get more retention and new players to join the new ocean than you'd lose to make it a good business proposition. This idea becomes worthwhile when existing oceans become so dead that everybody on them essentially quits because there's no gameplay any more.

    Running parallel versions sounds clever but I think that would be another Malachite type situation, as we'd all still have our established homes and we'd just go back there.
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    [Jul 3, 2011 3:59:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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