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BongoFury



Joined: Sep 21, 2010
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Non-sinking flotillas: The 3 segment rule Reply to this Post
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In the interest of jobbers anywhere I would like to establish a rule of thumb for non-sinking flotillas.

 
As a navigator, if you have been on the board for 3 full segments (time up to the first break doesn't count) and you haven't managed to sink anything, navigate as aggressively as possible. NO running off to repair until either your ship or a bot ship sinks.

Caveats:
* does not apply to sinking flotillas
* not a free pass for jobbers to leave after 3, if the navigator navs aggressively from there on


The rationale behind this is that after 3 segments for no sinks, jobbers will slowly start leaving anyway, so your chances are not getting any better. The ship is already dropping from peak performance. It's time to pursue that sink all-out, even if it means you may non-sink in the process.

It would be great if such a rule could become a standard for flotillas. I know non-sinkers often are where the less experienced navigators get a chance to nav in a multi-ship environment, but I figure 3 full segments is fair to them. For conscientious jobbers, spending 3 and a half out of 5 segments repairing outside of the flotilla ships' attack zone is not a good game experience. Popularizing a rule like this could be a social fix to that. As blunt as it may sound, "3 segment rule, sink either them or us NOW" should be something that enters the jobbers' vocabulary.

Jobbers are entitled to basic expectations for various ventures. Now the usual way most deal with these expectations not being met is to jump ship, with or without a flimsy excuse for leaving. This gives navigators and XOs the out of blaming their lack of success on those good-for-nothing jobbers. Being confronted with a frame for what reasonable expectations are, they might become aware of a need of improving their contribution.

Finally, something like this might even help the newer navigators. Multi-ship combat can be intimidating at first, so it's quite natural to be overcautious. Being forced by a "rule" to drop this overcautiousness at some point, and charge in with guns blazing, they may get sinks and realize that the flotilla is not that intimidating after all.


If you agree, help to popularize this (or a similar) "rule" accross the oceans.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by BongoFury at Sep 30, 2010 8:46:51 AM]
[Sep 30, 2010 8:46:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
sweetnessc

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Joined: Nov 10, 2004
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Re: Non-sinking flotillas: The 3 segment rule Reply to this Post
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As a jobber, it is far for more fun to job with a navver who gets sunk than with one who is so cautious that they never sink anything. The latter makes me feel like I'd be better off snuggling up in bed than being on their ship puzzling. I don't job again with people who are that cautious.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. ~ Jack Layton

Sublime is shame.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by sweetnessc at Sep 30, 2010 10:35:39 AM]
[Sep 30, 2010 10:34:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
DeepNine

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Re: Non-sinking flotillas: The 3 segment rule Reply to this Post
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The interesting bit about flotillas is that sinking really doesn't cost you that much even in sinkers, especially when compared to Atlantis (or CI, where you lose everything). The vast majority of the PoE from flotillas is gained through the bounties and is divided immediately, with the booty divided at port being just a small bonus for making it out alive. For example, let's do the math on a frig, which costs 85k on a blue ocean. A decent or even halfway-competent driver (if in Brynhild) can expect to make the cost of the ship back from the restock that gets divided immediately into the hold within a single hour alone. This means if you sink after one hour 100% of the time you have at least broken even while netting your jobbers a nice payday. It goes without saying that this result is immensely superior to going an hour without sinking anything: It's more fun, plus you learn how to nav much more effectively than slipping to the melee a quarter of the time and repairing the rest. It's hard to pin an exact number on it, but I'd estimate the most profitable blue ocean flotilla drivers sink about 25% of the time on a 3, 4-hour run with anyone who sinks considerably less often being too conservative and driving down their jobbers' profitability (let alone enjoyment of the game). A few of my best runs have ended in sinks - despite having lost the ship, my jobbers got a nice cut of booty, the fun of watching everything go glub, and of course the all-important chance at an injury. Meanwhile, I ended the day a half million PoE richer.

Green oceaners will be quick to point out that the increased ship cost makes not sinking more important, so it's better to nav quite a bit more conservatively there since you won't be able to sink every single time without finding yourself broke fast. Even then, I expect many drivers find themselves placing their ship as the #1 priority, ruining their poe margin while forcing their jobbers to slave away for quite some time for no booty.

In short: yes please, and for sinkers too.
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Nine of Tyr's Own
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[Oct 3, 2010 3:36:25 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BobJanova

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Re: Non-sinking flotillas: The 3 segment rule Reply to this Post
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Using Brynhild is slightly unfair as she's really easy ;). But you shouldn't be in a sinking flotilla if you don't know what you're doing. A frig and stock is in the region of 250k for a green ocean so you have to do reasonably well (around 10 green sinks at 30%) before you have made enough to cover a sink. However, I agree with the basic idea of the thread ... if you haven't sunk anything in three segments then either you need to learn to drive better or it's just not your day, and either way you shouldn't be wasting your jobbers' time any more that day.
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Bobjanova on Viridian and Malachite
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[Oct 3, 2010 4:40:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
pomfret

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Re: Non-sinking flotillas: The 3 segment rule Reply to this Post
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Heck. People should bnav more aggressively on pillages. :p
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Pomfret of Midnight Cerulean and Most Oceans
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Stupid merger made me change my signature...
[Oct 5, 2010 1:34:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hamsterz4

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Re: Non-sinking flotillas: The 3 segment rule Reply to this Post
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tl;dr



Nah really, I agree with it.

I dont go to nonsinks usually (except for if Im naving), and when I nav, now adays Im a guest bnaver. The funny part is, I nav aggresivly (Im a good WF naver, well, I'd consider myself one from the experience I've gotten on MALACHITE, and a good WB naver, but WBs do terribly in tillas hands down)

Thing is, the noob XO who hires me always asks me to bnav really doesn't know what they are doing, so after Ive sunken one or two defending ships to get a lil' poe, and gone to repair, they always take over bnav and try to sink something, but get sunken in 3 turns.


Naving for someone = best comedy entertainment
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[Oct 16, 2010 6:48:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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