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Forums » List all forums » Forum: Tips & Tricks, Questions & Answers » Thread: Swordfighting, turning vertical of a horizontal sword |
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Thread Status: Normal Total posts in this thread: 15 |
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Skeleton0123
Joined: Jul 2, 2006 Posts: 1532 Status: Offline |
A friend of me (Innerpeace) has had the following in a sf match: He broke a 3x2 horizontal block at the same time as a 3x3 block in a triple, which resulted in a 2xn and 3xn vertical sword attack on his opponent. Now he wonders (and me aswell really) how this is possible? As far as my knowledge about sf goes it's only supposed to turn vertical when it exceeds length 12? This one only had length 9 at point of breaking in the combo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pvwcYz82KY&feature=related Linky to the swordfight. You can see the attack since it ended the fight as an insta. ps: no I'm not Innerpeace, he's just no fan of forums and I'm bored enough to post the question for him :P ---------------------------------------- Claimed to be a very whiney person. |
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BobJanova
Joined: Oct 16, 2007 Posts: 3591 Status: Offline |
The short answer is that the received wisdom is wrong, I think the limit is 9 pieces (I've had a similar experience tripling a 3x2). That would have generated 9x2 3x9 before any switching. ---------------------------------------- Bobjanova on Viridian and Malachite Shops and stalls with fair and profitable wages for all: Jubilee, Napi, Fintan, Lima, Chelydra, Drogeo I SELL LIMITED EDITION SHIPS (Jubilee Is., Viridian) |
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Abandonment
Joined: Sep 2, 2007 Posts: 2321 Status: Offline |
I just tested and a single 3x2 block tripled equates to a horizontal sword.   Edit: Looking at that miniscreen it's not possible for a horizontal to enter from the right. Which may have caused it to become a vertical sword. ---------------------------------------- CAN WE PRETEND THAT AIRPLANES IN THE NIGHT'S SKY ARE LIKE SHOOTING STARS, I COULD REALLY USE A WISH RIGHT NOW! *LIKE* ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Abandonment at Jul 25, 2010 5:14:39 AM] |
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Skeleton0123
Joined: Jul 2, 2006 Posts: 1532 Status: Offline |
Crossed my mind aswell, and must be the reason I suppose. I just find it weird that it's nowhere mentioned in any SF mechanism guide. (or I must have read over it From the rather very complete Black Death Sword and Sprinkle guide:
No explanation for it here. Didn't find anything either in Tedv's everything and everything about swords. ---------------------------------------- Claimed to be a very whiney person. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Skeleton0123 at Jul 25, 2010 6:10:48 AM] |
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Skeleton0123
Joined: Jul 2, 2006 Posts: 1532 Status: Offline |
Alright I tested it against my alt. Right handed falchion, right half of my alt's screen was blocked by solids. A tripled 3x2 horizontal turned vertical, a doubled 3x2 stayed horizontal but entered my screen from the left side instead of the right side. Any idea if this can be added to the Black Death etc guide? ---------------------------------------- Claimed to be a very whiney person. |
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Abandonment
Joined: Sep 2, 2007 Posts: 2321 Status: Offline |
http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Black_Death_Sword_and_Sprinkle_Placement_Guide#Horizontal_Placement_Rules 3. says if it's unable to enter from the sides it becomes a vertical sword. ---------------------------------------- CAN WE PRETEND THAT AIRPLANES IN THE NIGHT'S SKY ARE LIKE SHOOTING STARS, I COULD REALLY USE A WISH RIGHT NOW! *LIKE* |
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Skeleton0123
Joined: Jul 2, 2006 Posts: 1532 Status: Offline |
Yes but it's not complete. If it can't enter from either sides it'll turn vertical always. That's what it says, and that's not what happened. In the video of my friend and with my own testing only the side that matches the "handness" (left/right handed) was blocked off. The left side was still open. In my testing the horizontal entered there when it got doubled, when it got tripled though it turned vertical in column 2/3. ---------------------------------------- Claimed to be a very whiney person. |
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bronzebeard
Joined: May 5, 2004 Posts: 2027 Status: Offline |
Maybe he cleared a solid block at the top just before those swords arrived. Then the horizontal can't completely enter and so it turned vertical. ---------------------------------------- Peglegpaul on Midnight Retired from the boring bits of the game. |
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Skeleton0123
Joined: Jul 2, 2006 Posts: 1532 Status: Offline |
I redid it with my alt. Right side was completely blocked off. For my right-handed sword a doubled 2x3 entered from the left, a tripled entered vertically. (both for the right side blocked off with solids) ---------------------------------------- Claimed to be a very whiney person. |
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Abandonment
Joined: Sep 2, 2007 Posts: 2321 Status: Offline |
At a guess it's because more than 2/3 of the sword cannot enter the screen, so it's forcing it vertically. A similar thing happens with the first vertical sword of the match. If the receiver has a big enough block that would catch a sword entering 2-3 it will force the vertical attack (probably a 2x12 or a 2x15 into 56 (I'm fairly sure anyway). ---------------------------------------- CAN WE PRETEND THAT AIRPLANES IN THE NIGHT'S SKY ARE LIKE SHOOTING STARS, I COULD REALLY USE A WISH RIGHT NOW! *LIKE* |
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Skeleton0123
Joined: Jul 2, 2006 Posts: 1532 Status: Offline |
Yup, if the sword can't fully drop in the column then it'll take another one if that's possible. (can happen at any time of the game I think) ---------------------------------------- Claimed to be a very whiney person. |
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ACJD
Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Posts: 570 Status: Offline |
Edit: This information was incorrect. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 2 times, last edit by ACJD at Jul 27, 2010 8:20:03 AM] |
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ACJD
Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Posts: 570 Status: Offline |
I just keep changing my mind. I just went and did some testing and the result I got was different than what the BD guide said should have happened. I filled my entire right side up with a solid block and then sent a 6 long horizontal sword at it. The BD guide rule would have me believe it should have turned vertical because it couldn't fully enter 6 spaces in to the screen. Instead it did enter horizontally 4 spaces in to it. This leads me to believe that the rule is indeed something like "If at least half the horizontal sword cannot enter the screen, it will turn vertical." This rule would account for why 12 long horizontals turn vertical, why your 9 long horizontal turned vertical when it could only enter into the screen a maximum of 4 spaces, and why a 6 long horizontal remains horizontal when it can only enter 4 spaces in to the screen. I'm going to go back to testing now so I can get a definitive answer. Thank you for sharing this, you have brought excitement to my rather boring Tuesday, and this is possibly a major discovery that went unnoticed for years. Edit: I think the answer is clear now. I filled my entire columns 2 and 3 with solid gems so that at maximum a horizontal sword could only enter 3 spaces in from the side. When I sent a 6 long horizontal at it, the sword turned vertical. If anyone comes up with test case results that disproves this new law please let me know, otherwise I think we can officially say that this new explanation is correct. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 3 times, last edit by ACJD at Jul 27, 2010 8:40:10 AM] |
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Skeleton0123
Joined: Jul 2, 2006 Posts: 1532 Status: Offline |
Ah, I have never thought of a horizontal sword becoming vertical after reaching length 12 because it is not able to have more than half of it placed on your screen horizontally. That could indeed be the general rule :o ---------------------------------------- Claimed to be a very whiney person. |
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ACJD
Joined: Jul 24, 2005 Posts: 570 Status: Offline |
The BD Guide was updated to ensure that all of its information is correct and current. It's mind boggling to me that despite all this time and all the testing everyone has done, no one had ever noticed it or pointed it out (that I've seen). Horizontals turning vertical is a fundamental mechanic for anyone that uses the double 2xN opener. I guess when you're told that this is the reason something happens for so long that you just assume it is indeed correct and don't put that much effort looking in to it, but all this time we've falsely believed that the result was actually the rule. The test case itself seems so rare that it had never caught my eye before. Usually the only time any side of my board is completely filled with a solid gem would be in a stick fight, and stick fights are so back-and-forth I would have never been able to know what swords came from what. Anyways, thanks a ton for your observant eye. If anyone else finds any discrepancies in the BD Guide please vocalize them so they can be looked in to it. As far as I know the guide is now fully correct, but we're all still human so mistakes are possible. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by ACJD at Jul 27, 2010 10:01:57 AM] |
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