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shockedfrog

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Major tournament prizes Reply to this Post
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The winner of a major tournament or other event with a 'tournament only' prize such as a familiar, as far as i know, keeps their prize forever (barring a wipe on midnight). However, think about it. I was talking to Akebia about this: Akebia won that familiar in a sea shanty contest back in March, and it was deserved. But there are perhaps players now who could have won that contest, and as such, everyone who sees that akebia has that familiar will wonder whether he is still the best and should have that familiar. (replace 'akebia' and 'sea shanty contest' with any winner and contest) On the other hand, these people should be remembered for what they've acheived.
So, I have some suggestions. These involve housing, so it's a future thing.

First idea is to give them the familiar, which they get for a certain amount of time - a month, maybe two - while people still actually remember that contest. After that, whats the point in having an impressive looking thing on your shoulder for something that, to be honest, quite a few players will have forgotten about, and seeing it's lack of importance, shouldn't be forced to remember it. On the other hand, so that people who do want to remember it - the person, friends, and fans - can still have it there, there should also be a permanent prize, a trophy of sorts - even a non-mobile version of their familiar - in their house. This way, people interested in that person or the tournament can still get all the details without interfering in the lifes of new players who didnt play then, in some cases dont care, and in all cases will just be annoying, constantly asking how to get one :)

Second idea - which could also give them a permanent 'winner march 2003' trophy in their house for the sake of memories and recording acheivements, but wouldnt let them keep the mobile familiar unless they prove they were still worthy of it, by winning the tournament again, or at least having to reach a certain stage, or play a duel against the new champion. This would unfortunately not work well for tournaments such as that sea shanty contest - that was a one off, and you can't really have a sea shanty 'duel' with anyone, so that sort of thing would be better with option 1 - but would work for most in game tournaments.

The reason I'm mentioning this is out of fairness for all players - new players who want a chance to be the hero, old players who have had someone around them carrying one of these things for ages knowing that they got it in a time when the player base was so different and you're not sure whether they should keep it in a world where the chances of winning one are different - whether less due to the number of players, or more due to the number of easier players that would make some rounds easier (luck of the draw). Things change, after all :)

And no, this isn't one of those 'I MUST have a familiar' posts. There's no chance i'd win one when i've yet to actually get past round one in any sword tournament ever :)
[Aug 13, 2003 9:24:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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We can have our familiars bronzed and enshrined in our entryway.
[Aug 13, 2003 11:31:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Turk



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The Cthulhu Octopus is immortal!
[Aug 13, 2003 11:31:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gotagota

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shockedfrog wrote: 
... Akebia won that familiar in a sea shanty contest back in March, and it was deserved. But there are perhaps players now who could have won that contest, and as such, everyone who sees that akebia has that familiar will wonder whether he is still the best and should have that familiar...


did I inspire this?

Because anyone who's heard my shanties knows I'd take every prize offered. Even if I had to enter with alts to do it.
----------------------------------------
Fronsac, human.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
.
-Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

[Aug 13, 2003 1:33:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
akebia



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shockedfrog wrote: 
However, think about it. I was talking to Akebia about this:


I'm normally much more pleasant than I was that day. Really.

shockedfrog wrote: 
Akebia won that familiar in a sea shanty contest back in March, and it was deserved. But there are perhaps players now who could have won that contest, and as such, everyone who sees that akebia has that familiar will wonder whether he is still the best and should have that familiar. (replace 'akebia' and 'sea shanty contest' with any winner and contest)


First off, with regard to everyone seeing my monkey and silently sizing me up and seething at the injustice: As long as people ask "How did you get your monkey?", I'll have to answer "In a tournament." (Or, my favorite so far was one that you overheard when I met you yesterday: "How can I get a monkey for free?") I don't like strutting around and saying "Look at me! I won a tournament! Woo woo!", but the influx of newbies who don't read the FAQ is making me say this all the time.

The contest I won was (sadly) very atypical. All of the others have an in-game component that is constantly being tracked. Had I won for being the best swordfighter or best sailor or whatever, you could go to the Top Ten board and see if I was still on top. If that's not enough and you want a head-to-head fight, I'd say "Yes". (Were I a meanyhead who said "No", you'd rightfully suspect that I couldn't still keep my title.)

If that's not good enough for you, well, take heart. The next time there's a tournament, you can enter it. The prior winners will enter it, too. You can then rightfully jump up and down, hoot and holler, and say "Ha ha, the prior winner did not defend her title, for it has fallen to me!" You just have to wait. I had to wait three months for my first tournament (of which I missed all but the afterparty), three for the next (which I missed completely), and, well, here we are now, waiting for another. Patience, my friend, patience.

shockedfrog wrote: 
The reason I'm mentioning this is out of fairness for all players - new players who want a chance to be the hero, old players who have had someone around them carrying one of these things for ages knowing that they got it in a time when the player base was so different and you're not sure whether they should keep it in a world where the chances of winning one are different


Yeah, the '66 Celtics would get crushed by the Nets today. Why doesn't my man Kidd have a ring?
[Aug 14, 2003 1:53:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
GuybrushT



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I really, really hope that familiars are never for sale like the cleavers/poinards/rapiers have become. As was discussed in the clothing thread, having items of prestige kinda lose their value when everyone has them.

Also, I like the idea of having something you can carry around with you, as I said, sign of prestige. And when you see that ugy walking around decked out in black captains everything with the monkey on his shoulder...good times!
[Aug 14, 2003 3:51:22 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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I don't think I read the initial post carefully enough. The idea is that people who have had familiars for a while should have them taken away?


Ummm . . . NO. When pro sports teams win a championship, they get to wear their championship rings for a lifetime. They can carry them into the grave.
[Aug 14, 2003 4:07:34 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
shockedfrog

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what im saying is they get a permanent trophy that they don't carry around with them all the time, and they get the carry around with them item if they are STILL the champion.
[Aug 14, 2003 4:15:34 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
GuybrushT



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ok, so let me see if I have this straight, you think that basically there should be something that's the equivalent of a Championship Belt (like in boxing), and that only the true champion will ever have it to carry around.

So if say, Silverbeard wins a swordfighting tourney, and he gets this "belt" or whatever, he's the champion and can wear it around. But if in the next tournament I win, then I get the "belt" to wear around, and he gets a trophy to store in his house saying that he USED to be champion?

Although I kind of like the idea of a "belt" for the current champion, I think that if you win a tourney you should be able to keep (and wear) your familiar at all times.
[Aug 14, 2003 4:46:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
shockedfrog

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Well, the whole point of this is to stop people wearing an 'active' trophy, such as a familiar, for something they are no longer the active champion of. If they magically held a familiar tournament tomorrow and i magically won it (read: cheated), i wouldn't want to wear it constantly after a month, even a fortnight, because I'd consider it unfair that I'd be wearing it showing off to people that i won some tourney a while ago that is now fresh out of everyone's memory. I'm not saying thats the reason people wear it, merely a side effect. But for people who wanted to know, there'd be a trophy in their house, or a Hall Of Fame on a major island.
[Aug 14, 2003 5:07:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gotagota

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Shockedfrog, you might find that my crew fits some of your desires quite nicely. If you're male, however, you'll have to catch the eye of one of the harem...
----------------------------------------
Fronsac, human.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
.
-Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

[Aug 14, 2003 5:16:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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The familiar isn't a record of being "active champion" of anything -- I think that's your mistake. The winners of Super Bowl XXII remain that, and can continue to show it as long as they want. They don't have to take off their rings in the presence of the winners of Super Bowl XXIII . . . the winners of the event in the second tournament don't have to give up their familiars just because there was a third tournament, and the winners there won't have to give them up when there's a fourth tournament.

My impression is that in the past tournaments, the winners are good, but often not even in the top 10 for that event for that puzzle. It's a tournament, not a title defense.
[Aug 14, 2003 5:27:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Narra



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shockedfrog wrote: 
Well, the whole point of this is to stop people wearing an 'active' trophy, such as a familiar, for something they are no longer the active champion of.


What makes a trophy "active" or "inactive"? Isn't the point of a trophy to commemorate that the holder has won a contest of some sort at one point in time, no matter when that was?

shockedfrog wrote: 
If they magically held a familiar tournament tomorrow and i magically won it (read: cheated), i wouldn't want to wear it constantly after a month, even a fortnight, because I'd consider it unfair that I'd be wearing it showing off to people that i won some tourney a while ago that is now fresh out of everyone's memory.


Why? What if they are just extra proud of the fact that they beat x number of pirates to be at one point in Y!PP history the best in the seven seas at a particular puzzle? Should they not be allowed to carry an item of pride around with them simply because it's out of date? With all due respect, I have to say that not all players are going to be like you. Just because the event in question has passed from recent memory does not mean that the win is any less important to a person.

shockedfrog wrote: 
I'm not saying thats the reason people wear it, merely a side effect. But for people who wanted to know, there'd be a trophy in their house, or a Hall Of Fame on a major island.


What about those of us who may not be able get a house (for various reasons if/when they become available)? Or who just decided that the wandering pirate life was for them and never really put down roots? Or who didn't own a ship or any other particular place of storage? What then? Do they lose their trophy because they refuse to settle down? And how would a Hall of Fame properly fit into the current economy/gameplay of Y!PP?

I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I really am interested in seeing where you're coming from with this and where you are going.
[Aug 14, 2003 5:48:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Narra+Grey [Link]  Go to top 
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The bond between a familiar and the tournament winner is permanent and magical. I can't imagine telling people that they have to lose their beloved Parrot or whatnot, or leave it at home in a cage. Familiars are not a prize belt, but a trophy, and one keeps a trophy. I can appreciate that lots of beta testers would like the chance to win one, too, and the chance will come. As Akebia points out the tourneys have never been regular, partly because they are tremendously hard work to run and compete in.

I am contemplating the principle that people shouldn't be able to win more than one; they would perhaps be able to compete, but the prize would go to the next non-familiarised winner.
[Aug 14, 2003 7:35:40 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
shockedfrog

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well, we're talking a world where everyone pretty much sees everyone. Superbowl champions aren't common sights, particularly not in scotland :)

Now, there's a big long thing here which sort of compares Puzzle Pirates Tournaments to the Superbowl. I don't like doing this sort of thing, but some people like to compare computer games to real life just a little bit TOO closely - there are similarities, particularly the fact that every character, NPCs included, is controlled by a real person, but theres a limit too.

For winning the championship, they are - rightly, i think - given a 'show off' item, a familiar. But there comes a time when wearing such a show off item just isn't right - you're telling people IM THE BEST!, even if you're trying to say 'yeah, i won this ages ago.' As such, they won back then, and in the same way, the superbowl champions of 1066, or whatever year that silly american sport tournament started, won back then - there's no way of proving they'd still win it today, because the real person is now 936 years older than then, and is therefore not quite as fit as they used to be - a new match would be impossible. When they won, I would imagine they got three rewards. One, the monetary reward, which any person could get in everyday life, given that they work towards it. Two, the show off award - the fact that every newspaper, sports TV show, and the media is covering it really (newspapers and TVs in 1066? hmm, this story gets less convincing all the time). Three, the permanent awards - Trophies/rings whatever. In real life, nobody is gonna notice a ring from a distance, and nobody is gonna carry a trophy around with them every day. People who remember that 1066 match will recognise the person, and if the guy still wants to be known for it, thats a reward, but people who have no interest in american football, or who werent around back then and are more interested in the present than the past, don't get it thrown in their face everywhere they go - 'wow! look at what you missed! Yeah, I won the 1066 Superbowl!''

However, this still applies for defending - If the same guys team defended the superbowl by winning the next superbowl too, they'd get more monetary reward, and more media attention again, and another little ring and the notch on the 'memories of Bob, former Superbowl Champion' list.
In Puzzle Pirates, under my idea the money you win at the tourney is the equivalent of money for winning the superbowl, the temporaryfamiliar and the attention you get on forums is (well, should be) the short term prize for being the current champion. The trophy you would get would be the ring - something small that people aren't gonna notice unless they actually specifically want to know about it, by going to your house/reading your pirate info page (even a 'winner of blah championship 2blahmonth blahyear' mention) or going to the Hall Of Fame - im sure theres a Hall Of Fame for the former Superbowl champions somewhere in America. And the trophy is an addition to the fact that people who were around then, or who follow the history of tournaments, will remember you for it. But people who aren't interested won't be FORCED to know who you are unless they want to.

A lot of my issues with this are taken from another game I played a lot, and was one of the founders of the Game Coordinator (events team) reponsible for hosting tournaments. The game was previously made in a way that any player who plays well in the game can earn all major items, but after the events team was added, despite my pleas that people remember player events are more important since they keep the game alive, people were only interested in staff events due to the large 'show off' permanent prizes that aren't available during normal gameplay. While I don't see it being a major problem here, at least not yet, there becomes a stage when people lose interest in playing player events because the prizes are nothing more than money or clothes which most players have already got or would not want. This is actually one of the importances of having a money pit, so nobody gets into such a situation. But with familiars, if two players were exactly equal, but one of them happened to win the tournament, they would be known as a better player FOREVER just because of a one off happening. Winning a tournament should mean a temporary boost, but after that, you're back to normal - you've had a fun time, made some new accomplices, but you aren't superior to everyone else because of it.

Somewhere amongst that lot is a good article on this issue, I reckon. To sum it up, familiars are very desirable items - if you have one, you're one of a very small bunch who are considered by a lot of players as 'above the rest' simply because you won a special event. No player should be permanently given such a item, they should earn the right to keep having it. As I said before, don't forget what they did, but see that it's the present - now - that's more important than the past. It also makes sure every player has an additional reason to keep pushing themselves further, to keep improving - because they could, just for a little while, have that hero symbol, the familiar. In the slightly edited words of David Bowie, We can be heroes, just for one month. (and yes, I think these tournaments should be more common - some people will pay for the game monthly, im sure, and if you pay for the game in a tournament month, you're getting a better deal than those who pay for a different month :)
[Aug 14, 2003 7:43:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
shockedfrog

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Well, I suppose there's something in cleaver's post about one familiar max per person, but you're then giving the game's best item to the guy who came second.
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triskaideka



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I think you're putting too much emphasis on the idea that having a familiar means you're the best at, or even good at, something. That's not what I think when I see someone with a familiar in the game. I associate it with a certain amount of vague prestige, and I'm appropriately envious of them, but that's about it. I think familiars should be rare, not purchaseable, and something of a status symbol, and giving them out as tournament prizes just happens to be a good mechanism for enforcing that. If in the future some people acquire familiars through methods other than winning tournaments, I won't be surprised or bothered by that. As long as it's not completely random and not money-based, it works for me.
[Aug 14, 2003 8:45:22 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
shockedfrog

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i never actually noticed people had familairs until i saw the sheer number of people who always hang around these people. it's a social advantage gained by people THINKING you're the best. i believe that ownership of one means you were the best on the day. and yes, i hope there are more ways of getting them that arent random and dont rely on already being the richest or anything, but just being good and in with a chance.

and for the 5 millionth time, i dont care if i have one or not. some people may have envy issues, but I'm happy with trying to be popular (the true measure of online gaming success) by doing the appropriate work, and not (this isnt about current familiar owners, but the possible future generation of champions) by winning something one day through a mixture of skill and possibly luck. If I ever do, I will stick to my earlier word of only wearing it while the tournament is still fresh, and then take it off - i dont know if theres a way to take it off, if there isn't, ill put it on an alt of mine or ill pass it to somebody else on a 'pass it on every week' deal. :)
[Aug 14, 2003 9:12:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
triskaideka



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shockedfrog wrote: 
i never actually noticed people had familairs until i saw the sheer number of people who always hang around these people. it's a social advantage gained by people THINKING you're the best.

I don't think that's necessarily accurate. First, because I know that skill at swordfighting isn't one of the factors I consider when I decide whether to hang out with a person, and I'm sure that's not just me. Second, many of those who have familiars are people who've been around for a while, or who post frequently in these forums, or who own shops or hold positions of importance in some crew or flag, or who work at Three Rings, and there are numerous alternate explanations for why people might want to talk to them other than simple awe at their combat skills.

shockedfrog wrote: 
i believe that ownership of one means you were the best on the day.

I'm saying that you should consider that this belief may not be widespread.

shockedfrog wrote: 
If I ever do, I will stick to my earlier word of only wearing it while the tournament is still fresh, and then take it off

I don't think you should feel the need to do that. Consider this analogy: Guava Island is currently holding a contest for someone to come up with a tourism slogan for them. First prize is a small sloop. A few months down the road, someone else may think of a slogan that they like better than the contest winner's, so perhaps they'll switch to using that new slogan. Do you think they'll demand the deed to the sloop back, or try to transfer it to the person who thought up the new slogan? I would guess not. That sloop doesn't mean that its owner is the best slogan-designer on the ocean. It's just a sloop. Same with a familiar. It's not a trophy and it's not a druidic rune that means "best swordfighter". It's your familiar. Never mind how you got it. Do what you want with it.
[Aug 14, 2003 11:21:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
shockedfrog

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Ok, I accept that these people are older players who obviously have several real reason as to being so popular. Understandable. I'm more worried about the 'next generation' of tournament winners.

As for that contest: first, we're talking about a player held tournament, for a prize that anyone can get in a matter of days/a couple of weeks at the most, not a once in a certain amount of paid playtime chance. I asked cleaver about this and the reply, which ive forgotten the words of, was quite positive - hopefully no month will be 'better' than another month in that it will have a special tournament that other months dont have. Secondly, this does fall into the category of contests which do not involve any way to have one player duel another without losing the whole meaning of the contest, and in addition, has to be judged - you can't teach a computer to find the best slogan, after all, it's about what pleases the judges most, while a swordfight, for instance, follows a set of rules and you dont get three people giving your swordfighting performance ratings out of 10 afterwards to determine who wins :)

So anyway, I would feel the need to do that. I largely blame myself for what happened to that game and even though this is a different situation, there are several similarities and I want to make sure nothing similar happens to another great game, particularly when the payment plan is constant rather than one-off.
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Kaejer



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This is sorta of the subject. But I think the Familiars are kool, it's like having an epic an EverQuest if anyone has ever played that. If not don't buy it, it's like crack -- EverCrack. Anyways when Ruins of Kunark came out (first expansion) it gave access to long somewhat annoying epic quests for uber items, for each class. They were the best in the game during that expansion, some still are. But like 5 expansions later or something it's all completely changed. All of the epics can be easily beaten except mainly 1 and possibly a 2nd out of about 15. So most people will do their epics cause the epic's look really kool. For example a flaming sword, lightning swords, large glowing rods, or glowing fists. Ya, sounds kinda dumb if you haven't played EverQuest. But people like to get them cause they look kool, and they earned it(btw their no drop so u can't give it to any other player). Familiars, their kool people think they look kool, and apparently they had to have been good to get them. They shouldn't be able to be taken away, like the epics in EverQuest. Their for show and don't give much of an advantage other than being able to say "Haha I have a Familiar that means i'm the best! =P" as someone with a foil gets lucky and beats them down. Games mostly on skill I believe and a little luck, cause well if u get absolutely no attack swords then well ur dead! If they won they either got lucky which would rarely happen, or someone skillful won it. Some people may be the best at sword fighting or sea battles, but could be may be jerks. So what? They earned it and beat a bunch of people in a puzzle. If they got what it takes then they deserve a prize =P even if it's not a familiar.

Drinking Puzzle contest to get a barrel for a torso piece, oh yeah!
----------------------------------------
Dragons are kool.
Fear the dragon of pixels. Roar.
[Aug 14, 2003 3:52:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.geocities.com/cloudstrife60    Kaejer1 [Link]  Go to top 
shockedfrog

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Ah, but if i understand what you're saying, quest victories arent limited to 1 in a * people and the quests don't only open up if you're lucky enough to play at a certan time on a certain day in a certain month, everquest is more a game of levels than looks, and yes, they deserve a prize - read my 1066 Superbowl thing for my beliefs on prizes.

I say we just close this topic, and wait for 'I told you so' time - although hopefully it won't get as bad as the Graal example.
[Aug 15, 2003 12:59:43 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Cleaver was referring to the eventuality of having multiple player-run tournaments (so better tournament tools are on the list). Note the swordfighting tourneys some crews have. It's pretty likely there will be tournaments every week eventually, and certainly every month soon. They won't ALL have familiars as prizes -- probably just the Ringers one most of the time, though we considered having one with our extras as prizes, until we traded them away -- but the frequency of events is on the rise, and will continue to do so.

There have been three Ringer-sponsored tournaments. One of the reasons you see people crowding around folks with familiars is that they've been in the game long enough to both have lots of in-game acquaintances AND be present for the tournaments, which date back to mid-alpha. X doesn't cause Y, Z causes X and Y, which is why they are correlated.

I can't even imagine the days of "I told you so" ever coming to pass. It won't be any more or less fun to have a monkey if I'm the only one or if everyone has them. They don't do anything but look cute and generate small talk; I haven't seen anyone turned away from a store by a sign that said "people with familars only".

Also keep in mind that while those uber-item-quests in other games are essentially a reward for staggeringly large numbers of mouse-clicks, what you get in this game is so much more a matter of actual skill.

I think the effect you're looking for, Shockedfrog, is adequately (though far from perfectly) reflected in the Top 10 standings for puzzles. With the exception of the people in there we'll never see again (some of the alts are obvious, some are secret), that's a position/award you have to fight to maintain, that is seen by all only for as long as it is current. Decay due to absence has been floated around before, which would be fine with me.
[Aug 15, 2003 1:51:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
shockedfrog

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well, that was my whole point. theres no reason why somebody who pays in a certain month should be able to win a familair when someone who pays in another can't.

The decay in top 10 thing is fine, but there isn't any special in game advantage gained through being in the top 10 unless people specifically look at the top 10. some people have trouble not specifically looking at a familiar, which is the problem. imagine two equal players. if someone won two tournaments with no familiar and someone won 1 tournament with a familiar, even if all the tournaments had the same number of contestants and same general level of skill, the guy with the familiar would be considered the better player.
[Aug 15, 2003 3:06:41 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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I think we have a difference of opinion on familiars. There is no game advantage in familiars. I also don't think that a win that nets a familar is necessarily the better one, I think the win over a tougher/more notorious opponent (higher rank, in the top 10 for example) is better, also if the tournament is better-witnessed. Right now, the best-attended ones are the Ringer ones, but that's up to players. If we sponsored a tourney with a guaranteed 10k prize, and advertised relentlessly and well enough in advance, I think that would draw a pretty big crowd!

I just don't see having a familiar as being unfair or advantageous, and I have a hard time accepting you don't want one when you clearly think they're something so very special -- you're complaining about how unfair it is that we have something you don't care at all about (for the 5 millionth time)? Why are we talking about this then?
[Aug 15, 2003 3:15:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
shockedfrog

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I never said I don't want one, merely that I don't want one permanently. If I ever somehow win one, I will, as I said, wear it for a fair amount of time until it reaches the stage where people, myself included, will be questioning whether it should still be there. And judging by peoples reactions - Cleaver stating 'The bond between a familiar and the tournament winner is permanent and magical', for example - suggests it is a very special item, yet you say it isnt. People, make your minds up :)

As I stated, this will not become a serious problem as long as there are plenty of money pits. The problem is finding a balance - having people work to keep what they've got, without making them have to work so much to keep it that they don't have enough spare time to play the game naturally and progress, without making it so that work is more important than fun. But if anyone ever gets into that death of gaming situation where they have everything except for an item that can only be got every few months, that's when things go awry.
[Aug 15, 2003 4:20:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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I think the "special and magical" was a defense of their permanence, not a value judgement, but I can see how your opinion of that statement would vary.

Thing is, many of us HAVE everything in the game, buying-wise, and we still play. The puzzle basis is what makes this different from other games where it really is about getting stuff and beating things . . . click the mouse enough times, and there's nothing new to do or buy. A mouse click can destroy the player who's second to you in power; here, you have to beat them in challenging puzzles based on skill. Other MMORPG's are more like coin-guzzling arcade games, where enough time and money will win any game. In this game, it's a lot more about skill . . so to continue the analogy, it's more like pinball. Before you poke holes in it, I know it's not a perfect analogy, but I think you get the idea.
[Aug 15, 2003 4:52:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
muffy



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shockedfrog wrote: 
If I ever somehow win one, I will, as I said, wear it for a fair amount of time until it reaches the stage where people, myself included, will be questioning whether it should still be there.


The thing is, ye seem to be the only one questionin' this, and ye seem to be questionin' it on the basis of an assumption of yers about what they mean (bein' the best at somethin') that doesn't jibe with other people's view of them. Yes, they're special, but they do not have a fixed meaning, other than that someone did *something* out of the ordinary to get them, and that remains true no matter how much time passes.
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[Aug 15, 2003 4:54:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
triskaideka



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If I ever somehow win one, I will, as I said, wear it for a fair amount of time until it reaches the stage where people, myself included, will be questioning whether it should still be there.

 
'The bond between a familiar and the tournament winner is permanent and magical'

...

Nobody's going to question whether your familiar belongs on your shoulder, because (a) where else would your familiar belong, and (b) it's still not a trophy.

If I paid to play Puzzle Pirates for a given month but had absolutely no chance of obtaining a familiar by any means during that month, I wouldn't feel cheated. I hope that familiars never become that kind of object of acquisition.
[Aug 15, 2003 5:07:11 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
akebia



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shockedfrog wrote: 
And judging by peoples reactions - Cleaver stating 'The bond between a familiar and the tournament winner is permanent and magical', for example - suggests it is a very special item, yet you say it isnt. People, make your minds up :)


Our minds are made up. Yours is not. Help me follow your train of thought.

I believe you've essentially said this: Tournament winners got their prizes not just through skill, but also a great deal of luck. (Did my opponent have a bad day? Were the good players absent that day?) Tournament winners are not necessarily the best, not the day that they win and certainly not months down the line.

I also believe you've said this: Folks who wear pets passively announce that they won a tournament.

And, you've said this: Folks who wear pets passively declare "IM THE BEST", which should piss everyone off, because, man, maybe these people aren't really the best.

Help me, Shocked Frog. Help me figure out how you jump from "Wearing a familiar says you've won a tournament event" to "Wearing a familiar announces that you're the best", even when you disagree with "Winning a tournament means you're the best".
[Aug 16, 2003 4:49:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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