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Aenor

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Mind you, I'm not complaining that the poker players are terrible... Reply to this Post
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...but as someone who truly loves the art of the game of poker, I have to admit it sometimes puts me on tilt to see someone make a gruesomely awful poker decision, lose 200,000 poe, and then justify it by saying, "I have so much that I just don't care about such a small amount. I called just for fun to see what you had."

Do people in any other game play stupidly for huge stakes? Have you ever seen someone play a 100,000 entry fee game of hearts and then try to shoot the moon every hand, just because it's fun to try to shoot the moon? Have you ever seen an Ultimate swordfighter risk 500,000 and then bring a stick to fight against a skull dagger? Have you ever seen someone take a GF into Atlantis and just ram into Archelons because it's fun?

I guess the other thing that confuses me is why there aren't more sharks taking advantage of this easy profit. All a flag would have to do is find three or four people with a marginal amount of poker knowledge and some patience, have them play poker ten hours per week at the 200k tables playing nothing but basic ABC poker and they could easily take in 10M profit per week. Why isn't every flag doing this?
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Mat on the Meridian Ocean

Thank you to everyone who loves Blacksmithing!
[Apr 24, 2010 10:55:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: Mind you, I'm not complaining that the poker players are terrible... Reply to this Post
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People in different parts of the game have different ideas of what "a lot of PoE" means.

To shopkeepers and traders will often keep track of 2 PoE per unit since that can add up over all the units they trade in.

To a sloop bnavver, 20k is a lot.

To an atlantis bnavver, 200k is a lot.

To many poker players, 200k isn't that much. When you are done buying familiars, you can buy islands.

OOO has decided that this is good for the game. The players numbers speak for themselves that OOO has made the right decision.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by wrs1864b at Apr 24, 2010 11:01:43 AM]
[Apr 24, 2010 11:00:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
elbeejay

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Re: Mind you, I'm not complaining that the poker players are terrible... Reply to this Post
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Have you ever seen someone take a GF into Atlantis and just ram into Archelons because it's fun?


Actually, yes. I think Gunnermooch even took in a renamed frig to sink once. It definitely is nowhere near as common as poker players who do not care about their money though.
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-Elbee on Hunter, Sage, Viridian, and Malachite
[Apr 24, 2010 2:28:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Abandonment

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Re: Mind you, I'm not complaining that the poker players are terrible... Reply to this Post
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For me to pay 200k to see someone's hand and justify my read on a player isn't all that big a deal if I have 50-60m in the bank. Wealth is relative and 200k sometimes just really isn't a lot.
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Priapus/Guantanamo
[Apr 24, 2010 3:40:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Colvic

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Re: Mind you, I'm not complaining that the poker players are terrible... Reply to this Post
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Have you ever seen an Ultimate swordfighter risk 500,000 and then bring a stick to fight against a skull dagger?


Actually if you think about it a stick would be pretty effective against a skull dagger, if you've seen the drop pattern for large swords with an SD, it's pretty pathetic. I imagine a fight between two good players lasting quite some time!

And no I haven't seen that happen, but I do recall one of my friends playing for 100/150k with a longsword vs Falch by accident, although we all thought he was using it on purpose because he kept betting..
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Different Tournament Formats please!

[Apr 24, 2010 4:01:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Silico

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Re: Mind you, I'm not complaining that the poker players are terrible... Reply to this Post
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OOO has decided that this is good for the game. The player numbers speak for themselves that OOO has made the right decision.


Sarcasm, I take it? :p
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[Apr 24, 2010 4:34:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lazyeyes1991

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Re: Mind you, I'm not complaining that the poker players are terrible... Reply to this Post
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Have you ever seen an Ultimate swordfighter risk 500,000 and then bring a stick to fight against a skull dagger?


flaggie did something like that a week ago. Guy was doing 10k wagers and Flaggie brought in a stick and the other guy had a falch i think. Flaggie started to win a few then lose a few was hilarious, till the guy put up a 100k wager and Flaggie walked in switched to a Falch and destroyed.

As for those people who say 'meh 200k, no big deal' your not going to get super rich from calling every 200k raise just to see. They thought they would luck out and win on the river or something and are just trying to play it off.
 

To shopkeepers and traders will often keep track of 2 PoE per unit since that can add up over all the units they trade in.


Yeah thats true, how many people go +1 on hemp(wood/iron all that stuff you buy in bulk) and buy 5k+. When they could just wait a few days to get it all at a cheaper price. That will add up, and fast.
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Lesgreg
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Lazyeyes1991 at Apr 24, 2010 11:33:28 PM]
[Apr 24, 2010 11:32:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kheffin



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Re: Mind you, I'm not complaining that the poker players are terrible... Reply to this Post
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Playing TAG is profitable but boring. People want to make money fast, and while TAG absolutely kills most of YPP players, most of the players here don't have the patience to wait an hour to play 2 or 3 hands. 10m per week is also a pretty intense number; how many players do you have in this estimation? I taught a friend basic TAG, gave him 20k as a bankroll, and he turned that into 4-5 mil in expert experience, but he ran hot at the 200k's once when his bankroll was still relatively small, so that may skew the results.

You also get the fact that people always complain about suckouts, so you'd probably be hardpressed to have the majority of people in this game play it for extended periods when "HURR HURR 3J BEAT AA POKER IS RIGGED" dominates so much of player thinking.

EDIT: Noticed you said 3-4 people at 10 hours a week. I don't think 30-40 hours is enough to make 10m a week, and I think you'd be hardpressed to find anyone who can keep that sort of sustained profit up. That's 250k an hour at the best, which is more than 1 BI per hour. Even the worst tables aren't that spewy, and a large percentage of players don't buyin for 200k anyways.
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Kheffin- Viridian Ocean
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Kheffin at Apr 25, 2010 2:46:21 AM]
[Apr 25, 2010 2:34:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Aenor

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Re: Mind you, I'm not complaining that the poker players are terrible... Reply to this Post
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I think that TAG can easily win on average one buy-in an hour. It's not that hard to play well, either, you just need to have something to do at the same time like surfing for porn or folding laundry or something.
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Mat on the Meridian Ocean

Thank you to everyone who loves Blacksmithing!
[Apr 25, 2010 7:13:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
pomfret

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Re: Mind you, I'm not complaining that the poker players are terrible... Reply to this Post
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Do people in any other game play stupidly for huge stakes?

Absolutely. There are people who raise their bid cards in an auction room against a millionaire just for the kick of 'making him pay more', which is all great fun until the millionaire drops his bid card at $49,000 (for something worth say only $10,000) and smiles back at them. Oh, wait. This is about poe, not $$$.
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Pomfret of Midnight Cerulean and Most Oceans
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Stupid merger made me change my signature...
[Apr 25, 2010 8:22:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Desirsar

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Re: Mind you, I'm not complaining that the poker players are terrible... Reply to this Post
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You also get the fact that people always complain about suckouts, so you'd probably be hardpressed to have the majority of people in this game play it for extended periods when "HURR HURR 3J BEAT AA POKER IS RIGGED" dominates so much of player thinking.


Maybe that's why no one can be unconvinced about poker being rigged, we're attacking it from the wrong angle. Instead of throwing statistics and anecdotes at them, we need to push them toward "3J beat AA? 3J just outplayed you, AA, hurr hurr."
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[Apr 25, 2010 9:05:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://incolor.inebraska.com/clu/index.htm    MantequillaRoja    Desirsar    2509183 [Link]  Go to top 
TheRack

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Re: Mind you, I'm not complaining that the poker players are terrible... Reply to this Post
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I think the one element that your missing is the thrill factor (for lack of a better way of wording it) of the gamble or the risk.... And the amount that needs to be risked is directly proportional to the total assets of the player taking the risk - A new player to the game with 2,000 poe recently pillaged up is going to get one heck of a thrill gambling 200 poe on the tables.... A player with 50mil is hardly going to sneeze at a 200k dice roll... As a comparison point, I remember the first time I attempted to solo a cutter full of sugar... Hardly a risk for any seasoned merchant, but for somebody newish to the game, the thrill from risking maybe 5k worth of commods on a merch run was huge at the time.

On the other hand, looking at the game from a purist point of view, a poker purist is never playing for the thrill of the dice roll, the thrill comes from outplaying your opponent, from making that sole read on your opponent, from making that massive laydown that turns out to be correct, from knowing when to make that call when your weak but they are bluffnig, from knowing exactly how much to bet to kick somebody out of the hand or to keep them calling, just knowing when to play the check raise etc. - For the purist, the thrill of the dice roll never comes into the equation.

Where some purists fall over is not understanding the dice roll mindset of their opponent sitting across that table, by simply not understanding why the heck somebody can call a 5x raise out of position playing 37o, or getting their head around why they chased that gutshot straight, and going straight on tilt when it hits or when that 37o flops two pair into the preflop raise holding AA... Or getting their head around why somebody would shove preflop with 58s just for kicks.

Not something you see in YPP all that often, but to pick something I see often enough elsewhere, I always find it amusing when a purist starts hurling abuse and tilting badly when they attempt to bluff with garbage when there is something obvious on the board, like a 4 card straight for example, and then gets called by somebody holding Ace high.


Other thing missing from the equation? YPP caters to the casual gamer crowed, and parlor games are designed so that if you only have 15 minutes free, the game can cater for you.... Somebody looking for a casual game, and a bit of fun who happens to enjoy poker is not going to sit there and fold away their 15-20 minutes of free time... they are going to want to play a hand or two.

Finally, 1% of people playing YPP is also a poker purist, maybe 5% have some understanding of the game.
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Cephalopod, on poker, wrote: 
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: it isn't rigged.

Period. End of story.

[Apr 25, 2010 9:33:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kheffin



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Re: Mind you, I'm not complaining that the poker players are terrible... Reply to this Post
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If you can make 200k an hour playing TAG, more power to you. I've never been able to do it consistently, and I've made a lot over time. I have no idea what my winrate/hour is, but it's definitely nowhere that high on average. Granted, I haven't played proper TAG lately, since I've been trying to mess around with other strategies.

For reference, what ocean do you play on? Only Viridian?
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Kheffin- Viridian Ocean
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Kheffin at Apr 25, 2010 1:58:08 PM]
[Apr 25, 2010 1:57:44 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Aenor

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Re: Mind you, I'm not complaining that the poker players are terrible... Reply to this Post
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If you can make 200k an hour playing TAG, more power to you. I've never been able to do it consistently, and I've made a lot over time. I have no idea what my winrate/hour is, but it's definitely nowhere that high on average. Granted, I haven't played proper TAG lately, since I've been trying to mess around with other strategies.

For reference, what ocean do you play on? Only Viridian?

Yeah, I'm on Viridian. I've tried poker on Midnight to see if the quality was any better, but I didn't think it was.

I don't play strictly TAG. I find after I've won a big pot or two I can start playing a bit more LAG and get people to actually fold to a bluff. I'm not entirely sure I win a buy-in per hour, I don't keep detailed records either. It could be a bit less than that, but it's certainly more than 1/2 a buyin per hour.
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Mat on the Meridian Ocean

Thank you to everyone who loves Blacksmithing!
[Apr 25, 2010 4:55:22 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Abandonment

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Re: Mind you, I'm not complaining that the poker players are terrible... Reply to this Post
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Pardon the obliviousness, but what is TAG/LAG?
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Priapus/Guantanamo
[Apr 25, 2010 5:00:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: Mind you, I'm not complaining that the poker players are terrible... Reply to this Post
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Pardon the obliviousness, but what is TAG/LAG?

See: here
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Apr 25, 2010 5:04:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kheffin



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TAG/LAG are the most basic ways to categorize "good" poker. They stand for Tight Aggressive and Loose Aggressive. Both seek to play their hands aggressively by raising pre-flop and betting post-flop, but the hands they open with vary (tight raises fewer hands).

The stuff is available through Google if you want to read more.

At Aenor: I can believe 100k/hour. 200k is a bit much though. 100k/hour is already pretty high end in my opinion.
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Kheffin- Viridian Ocean
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Kheffin at Apr 25, 2010 5:06:50 PM]
[Apr 25, 2010 5:05:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Deceptive

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Poker tables... right...

Are you new to these poker tables or something? Many people DO call just to see what you have, even if it loses their cash, because a lot of people on the higher tables learn how you play depending on how you bet with that kind of card.

And if you really think 200k is a lot for people on that size of table these days, then you need to get updated on how this game is going now.

And of course, there are also people who are there just to do random shit to entertain themselves, because they know they are meaningless numbers on a screen, there for the entertainment, which they are getting.

Be it because you lose cash, or you don't like how someone plays, there will always be a thread crying about poker.
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I honestly don't care anymore.
[Apr 26, 2010 7:59:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kotetsu534



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It'd be tough to make 200k/hour on average at one table. By multi-tabling across several doubloon oceans, though?
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Nomura, SO of Innocent, Member of Crimson Tide, Midnight.
[Apr 26, 2010 11:01:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
randy_chimp

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I can list at least three or four people off the top of my head that can earn 500k/hour but 200k/hour on one table is pretty steep given the bad luck runs you can get. I tend to quote myself at about 90k/hour per table that im playing at which accounts for all the bad luck suckout streaks i run into etc. At most people will earn 150k/hour at one table in the long run for those that are slightly better than me but I doubt 200k.
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[Apr 26, 2010 1:20:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
evenb2

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testing.
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~Violation on Hunter~

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Violation tells ye, "Hey sex-c, come here often?"
[Apr 26, 2010 1:38:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Deceptive

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I can list at least three or four people off the top of my head that can earn 500k/hour but 200k/hour on one table is pretty steep given the bad luck runs you can get. I tend to quote myself at about 90k/hour per table that im playing at which accounts for all the bad luck suckout streaks i run into etc. At most people will earn 150k/hour at one table in the long run for those that are slightly better than me but I doubt 200k.


Really? 200k in an hour is hard to do?

Crap, i'm too good for my own good =/
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I honestly don't care anymore.
[Apr 26, 2010 2:16:34 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Aenor

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I knew I was tempting the poker gods by starting this thread and wouldn't you know it I lost 400k in about ten minutes thanks to a few ill-advised calls.
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Mat on the Meridian Ocean

Thank you to everyone who loves Blacksmithing!
[Apr 26, 2010 2:34:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Dylan

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I knew I was tempting the poker gods by starting this thread and wouldn't you know it I lost 400k in about ten minutes thanks to a few ill-advised calls.


Nah, it's rigged. But my alt thanks you.
[Apr 26, 2010 3:21:02 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Siggy

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Nah, it's rigged. But my alt thanks you.


Trying to rig the game by misrepresenting your stats?
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Sig

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Dylan

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My alt holds an ult permanently. For some reason people are wise to "Dylan".
[Apr 26, 2010 4:00:44 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
randy_chimp

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Winning 200k in an hour is not the same as averaging it over the long run.
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[Apr 27, 2010 12:44:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Fattony91

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Finally, 1% of people playing YPP is also a poker purist, maybe 5% have some understanding of the game.


Say that again!
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Substrate on all oceans and 1337 forum bandit
[May 10, 2010 7:15:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Outrageous3

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...but as someone who truly loves the art of the game of poker, I have to admit it sometimes puts me on tilt to see someone make a gruesomely awful poker decision, lose 200,000 poe, and then justify it by saying, "I have so much that I just don't care about such a small amount. I called just for fun to see what you had."

Do people in any other game play stupidly for huge stakes? Have you ever seen someone play a 100,000 entry fee game of hearts and then try to shoot the moon every hand, just because it's fun to try to shoot the moon? Have you ever seen an Ultimate swordfighter risk 500,000 and then bring a stick to fight against a skull dagger? Have you ever seen someone take a GF into Atlantis and just ram into Archelons because it's fun?

I guess the other thing that confuses me is why there aren't more sharks taking advantage of this easy profit. All a flag would have to do is find three or four people with a marginal amount of poker knowledge and some patience, have them play poker ten hours per week at the 200k tables playing nothing but basic ABC poker and they could easily take in 10M profit per week. Why isn't every flag doing this?



ive seen a GF sink for fun. injuries, my friend, injuries.
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Outrageous on meridian / cerulean
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