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Livesey



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Bilging help Reply to this Post
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I'm pretty experienced at the duty puzzles, but I just can't "get" bilging. Briefly, there was a time where I could just really focus on making a few really efficient moves and get good results, but now I haven't got any idea how to make the pump glow.

So, any of you bilging ultimates care to make a thread like we've had on carpentry?
----------------------------------------
-Hethor
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Aur

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Bilging would have to be my achilles heel too. I'm Legendary or Ultimate in all my other duties, but I can't seem to get past respected in Bilging. I went looking for some threads for tips too, but couldn't seem to find any. So could someone either point me towards something already done up or can someone just clue me in.
----------------------------------------
~Aur
Original Riot Starter

"So now you know, and knowing is half the battle. The other half is HWFO." -Hermes
[Aug 12, 2003 9:41:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gotagota

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Average a score every single time you move a piece and you'll get excellent. Do better and you'll get incredible. By a score I mean a three-piece row or column.

I apologize if I can't give much better advice than that.
----------------------------------------
Fronsac, human.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
.
-Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

[Aug 12, 2003 9:58:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
garf



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what works for me (even though me ultimate is from the old rating system, it hasnt gone down at least):

scan board for potential 3x3 or higher. usually, ye will find one. if its jest 3 or 4 clicks fer it, do it. try to break other stuff on the way there. if there isnt, break single rows with one click until there is something better possible. rinse and repeat. do it with time in mind, but not hectically.

if ye want the board to change (ie no good things to break), do the single rows as high as possible. if ye have multiple good things to break, start them at the bottom so ye dont ruin yer others.

if ye get a jellyfish, use it on parts that are common, but first check if ye can do any easy 3x3+ with them and clear those.
----------------------------------------
- Randal

[size=9]also Garf, Silvain and a few others
[Aug 12, 2003 11:09:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    garf+on+aim [Link]  Go to top 
Melody



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What happens Reply to this Post
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What happens when you use a Jellyfish on a Jellyfish? Do all your jellyfish's disappear? Does it crash the puzzle? or do you get a super jellyfish :)
----------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------
-There are 10 types of people in the world. Those that understand binary, and those that don't.
-Always remember, 2 + 2 = 5 for very large amounts of 2.
--------------------------------------------
[Aug 13, 2003 6:21:56 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    zippo342 [Link]  Go to top 
Gotagota

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A jellyfish will vanish all the pieces that match the type you clicked it with. I do not believe the initial vanish helps scoring, but the subsequent combos do, inasmuch as they ever do.

Incidentally, the pufferfish puffs up and destroys the eight surrounding pieces.
----------------------------------------
Fronsac, human.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
.
-Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

[Aug 13, 2003 6:54:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Bocheezu



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This puzzle is easy, partly because you don't get penalized for leaving and partly because you don't get rewarded for thinking. I usually just do moves that get 3 in a row every time and put no thinking or planning into it whatsoever. Sometimes i get a 3x3 or 3x4 completely by accident, sometimes I rip some big chain out of the clear blue for no reason. Either way, it gets the pump going.

If I get bogged down and go 5 seconds without finding a move to make 3 in a row, I just quit and restart. I'll quit sometimes up to 3 times a league. The goal is speed -- sooner or later, one of those 3s will start a huge chain and then I don't have to worry about anything anymore cause it's excellent or better for a couple leagues, depending on the chain.

It sounds cheap and brainless to do it that way, but it works -- I have been ultimate forever with this puzzle. Really, I don't think a penalty on leaving will really do anything either, cause it only takes one big chain or a 3x3 to get the pump up to speed. I think the biggest problem is that moving pieces around 3-4 times to get a 3x3 or 3x4 is not a valid thing to do, cause moving pieces without getting a match of some kind penalizes you too much.

I don't know how the system works, but I think you should get one free move without penalty. If you go two moves without matching anything, then maybe a small penalty, but not much. Then maybe ramp the penalty up at 3 or 4 moves without a match. Right now, it's just not worth making any "planning" moves that don't make a match, because it's too easy to get good points from just making a match every move.
[Aug 13, 2003 7:19:37 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
akebia



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Melody wrote: 
What happens when you use a Jellyfish on a Jellyfish? Do all your jellyfish's disappear? Does it crash the puzzle? or do you get a super jellyfish :)


I had the opportunity once (and only once, alas) to swap two pufferfish, and I did out of curiosity. They just exchanged places with no puffing whatsoever. I posted a bug, because it seemed so wrong.

I don't know what became of that bug. In it, I made the suggestion that getting fish to mate should cause big red hearts to appear.
[Aug 14, 2003 2:25:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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So you ARE trying to turn it into Xoxoxo! Snuggle Pirates.
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Jer



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I achieved Ultimate in bilging recently, and here's a few pointers that I've always followed that helped me.

In bilging, I discovered it's VERY important to get a very good start. As soon as you begin, if you start making simple matches quickly, you can reach max pump very quickly. A basic 3x3 will springboard you to max. It's very, very important to get to a good start.

Secondly, it's easy to make simple columns, but needless to say, you only excel at bilging if you make 3x3s, 4x4s, 5x5s and Bingos.



Most of your 3x3s are likely to look something like this. The other way to get 3x3s involves having three of the same type of piece in the same row, which is somewhat of a rare occurance.

So before you make a column of three, look quickly at the other piece you're swapping that doesn't involve the column. Is there a way to move the other pieces around it to make a 3x3 or greater? In the above screenshot, there's obviously no work to be done. But if you can make a couple of moves to whip up a 3x3, you'll find it's well worth the extra moves.
----------------------------------------
[size=9]I'm Jericho.
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stevoid



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http://www.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthread?thread=378
[Aug 14, 2003 2:43:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tommy

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Melody wrote: 
What happens when you use a Jellyfish on a Jellyfish? Do all your jellyfish's disappear? Does it crash the puzzle? or do you get a super jellyfish :)


Yarr, this be such an interesting question, that I had te go see fer meself.

After about 30 minutes o' bilgin' on a navy ship, I finally got 2 jellyfish on the screen, and lined up next ta each other.

They swap. That be it.

Twas a bit of a letdown. I were hopin for firewerks or somethin'.
[Aug 16, 2003 3:48:19 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Garthor

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Also, trying to swap a jellyfish and a blowfish will just set off the blowfish, destryoing the jellyfish, instead of destroying all blowfish like it SHOULD.
----------------------------------------
Cleaver wrote: 
I've never been logged on, let alone on a ship.

[Aug 16, 2003 3:51:21 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
akebia



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tommy wrote: 
Twas a bit of a letdown. I were hopin for firewerks or somethin'.


And hearts, dammit, hearts! And kissy noises.
[Aug 16, 2003 5:11:46 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
54x

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X**--
*----
*----


If you move a * piece into the place I've marked as X that will give you a three by three. I don't have a screenie of it yet though.

Anyone got screenies of larger combos?
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
[Sep 17, 2003 10:23:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mjwhitehead.com/    raasike54    secondlight5454    32987700 [Link]  Go to top 
MojoChiba



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Jer wrote: 
I achieved Ultimate in bilging recently, and here's a few pointers that I've always followed that helped me.

In bilging, I discovered it's VERY important to get a very good start. As soon as you begin, if you start making simple matches quickly, you can reach max pump very quickly. A basic 3x3 will springboard you to max. It's very, very important to get to a good start.

Secondly, it's easy to make simple columns, but needless to say, you only excel at bilging if you make 3x3s, 4x4s, 5x5s and Bingos.

Most of your 3x3s are likely to look something like this. The other way to get 3x3s involves having three of the same type of piece in the same row, which is somewhat of a rare occurance.

So before you make a column of three, look quickly at the other piece you're swapping that doesn't involve the column. Is there a way to move the other pieces around it to make a 3x3 or greater? In the above screenshot, there's obviously no work to be done. But if you can make a couple of moves to whip up a 3x3, you'll find it's well worth the extra moves.


This is how I play it and it works well.. good words to follow. Another thing that is good to do is to keep a mental tab on the entire board. You can get a golden pump pretty easily by doing the combo method above, you can keep it golden by continuing the combos, but also by looking for chains. That is, if you position a few pieces so that your 3x3 combo will result in 2 or 3 more clearings when the pieces realign. You don't really need to go uber fast in the puzzle, so take a small bit of time (definitely not more than a second or two) to see how to setup the pieces for the max effects.

I'm in a bit of pain right now and my head is swimmin slightly, but hopefully the above info made some sense and helps somebody out....

Oh yeah, and here's some examplish things:



0+
0+
+0

0
0
+0
+
+

0+00
0
0

+
+
++0+00

+
+
++0+00
0
0

----------------------------------------
-Mojo Chiba

'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.
[Sep 17, 2003 10:45:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    mojo_chiba [Link]  Go to top 
Lallaria



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Jer wrote: 

Secondly, it's easy to make simple columns, but needless to say, you only excel at bilging if you make 3x3s, 4x4s, 5x5s and Bingos.


That's not true. I've tried it both ways.. setting up combos and just going through and getting 3 in a row if it means that I don't move anything extra. I got to Ultimate in no time doing the latter. (I even managed to set up the 3x3x5x5 Vegas. I was happy) Heck, I generally don't even waste time trying to figure out if I could make a combo if I just switched the other two. (The accidental Bingo every once in awhile is always cool, too)

Everything else I've seen here, I agree with.
----------------------------------------
Lallaria
[size=10]Retired
[Sep 17, 2003 12:32:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Lallaria [Link]  Go to top 
54x

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I went from fine to excellent after reading this thread. Horray for helpful hints...

What was the pattern for 'Vegas' again? ;)
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
[Sep 17, 2003 12:35:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mjwhitehead.com/    raasike54    secondlight5454    32987700 [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

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3x3x5x5


---X0----
---X0----
XX0X00-
---X0----
---X0----

or something to that effect, not the kind of thing you see often
[Sep 17, 2003 1:00:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
stevoid



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http://www.greyshift.net/~kujawa/Bilge_Vegas.jpg has an image of it.
[Sep 17, 2003 1:33:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
PsychoMantis



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I have Ultimate and I play bilging slowly. As long as you dont take so long between moves that your rating goes down, it doesnt really matter.

Main tip: MAKE A BREAK EVERY MOVE. Everytime you move without making a break your score drops. If you make about 4 or 5 breaks in a row you'll be up to Excellent already. Then I usually sit there and let all the bilge drain out in about 10 seconds. Then I leave, since I dont like bilging too much.

One other thing to keep in mind: There is ALWAYS one move you can make on a field that will give you a break. Sometimes this involves using a blowfish.

If that sounds un-exciting, then go for the combos. However, I find combos tend to happen on their own as you go along.
----------------------------------------
Legionnaire, Imperial Fist Chapter
Prince of Lost Legion
[Sep 17, 2003 10:14:26 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gotagota

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CBS is how garf lives his life. ha! Reply to this Post
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PsychoMantis wrote: 
One other thing to keep in mind: There is ALWAYS one move you can make on a field that will give you a break. Sometimes this involves using a blowfish.


This is about as untrue as it gets. Especially after a Vegas! that cascades into into a frenzy of disappearing blocks that leaves me enough time to go get a soda and come back in time to catch the last two or three breaks, the board can get pretty crappy, requiring you to move perhaps at most two blocks for a score.

Actually, just take the unlikeiest of patterns, that which has not a single block adjacent to any others like it. By my calculations should you get that board, the least possible moves for a break is five. But would be some serious Crappy Board Syndrome.
----------------------------------------
Fronsac, human.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
.
-Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

[Sep 17, 2003 11:07:51 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
garf



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im kinda surprised, snorf.. ye nearly got it right. for any board not containing any animals, a break is possible after at most 5 moves. that still leaves the theoretical (spare any sea creature limits the ringers implemented) possibility of a board not allowing any breaks at all, either by having crabs sit on the cruicial pieces or by a board that contains several that consist only of jellyfish.


a quick thanks to jericho at this point as his preliminary version of his bilging tutorial video got me bilging skills back to where they were.


and on a completely unrelated note - in that screenshot of a vegas, the vessel shows a notoriety rating. why has that been removed? and would that mean that an islands navy is internally handled as a crew?
----------------------------------------
- Randal

[size=9]also Garf, Silvain and a few others
[Sep 17, 2003 11:46:34 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    garf+on+aim [Link]  Go to top 
atteSmythe

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I want to be able to jellyfish crabs.

atteSmythe,
who sounds ridiculous making requests like this.
----------------------------------------
 
Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]

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stevoid



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garf wrote: 
and on a completely unrelated note - in that screenshot of a vegas, the vessel shows a notoriety rating. why has that been removed?


The vessel doesn't have the notoriety rating, the crew does (to explain to anyone who gets confused by the statement; I know Garf knows that!); it's still accessible from the crew info page.

The reason it was moved: if you look at the screenshot, you'll see that the chat box is so small that you couldn't see much without scrolling up and down it, so the list of people on duties was moved to make it bigger - it used to be so small that one person sending you a long tell would clear any crew commands out of it before you could see them, which was frustrating for the officer and the person puzzling.
[Sep 18, 2003 3:27:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gotagota

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Not the algorithm iself. Just some indication that its safe Reply to this Post
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garf wrote: 
im kinda surprised, snorf.. ye nearly got it right.


I've never seen more than four crabs onscreen at once, even at full bilge. Same for jellyfish and puffers. Then again that could be either my memory failing me or an odd quirk of coincidence.

Keep in mind that the only animal that will prevent a break is a crab, as activating a jellyfish or puffer will dramatically affect the board, likely making possible a score. Assuming the pattern doesn't continue in the new blocks, anyway.

Four strategically-placed crabs will however render a board completely unbreakable. I would like to see evidence of that even being possible in the block generation algorithm.
----------------------------------------
Fronsac, human.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
.
-Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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PsychoMantis



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Also, why would a Vegas produce a board with no possible moves?
Wouldnt there be new peices filing in from the bottom just like any other break?

How were these calculations produced and why would you need at least 5 moves to make a break?
----------------------------------------
Legionnaire, Imperial Fist Chapter
Prince of Lost Legion
[Sep 18, 2003 6:07:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
garf



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PsychoMantis wrote: 
How were these calculations produced and why would you need at least 5 moves to make a break?

not at least, at most.

that can be seen by constructing a worst case.

first, its clear that any row that contains 3 pieces of one color will get ye a break in at most 3 moves. that means that for our worst case, no row may contain 3 pieces of one color.

that in turn means that in any row, there are at least 3 colors. as there are 4 colors total, any given 3 rows of our worst case example will therefore contain a potential 3-in-a-column.

from here, its easy to see that 5 moves are the worst case to break those.

if anyone wishes a formal proof, let me know..
----------------------------------------
- Randal

[size=9]also Garf, Silvain and a few others
[Sep 18, 2003 8:54:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    garf+on+aim [Link]  Go to top 
PsychoMantis



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Gotagota wrote: 
PsychoMantis wrote: 
One other thing to keep in mind: There is ALWAYS one move you can make on a field that will give you a break. Sometimes this involves using a blowfish.


This is about as untrue as it gets. Especially after a Vegas! that cascades into into a frenzy of disappearing blocks that leaves me enough time to go get a soda and come back in time to catch the last two or three breaks, the board can get pretty crappy, requiring you to move perhaps at most two blocks for a score.

Actually, just take the unlikeiest of patterns, that which has not a single block adjacent to any others like it. By my calculations should you get that board, the least possible moves for a break is five. But would be some serious Crappy Board Syndrome.


Ok, assuming that it was meant the MOST possible moves for a break would be 5. Why would you use that to counter my statement that there is always one move you can make that will result in a break?

Also, while there probobly are many boards that CAN exist where no immdediate breaks are available, I think the bilging puzzle was designed to give you the peices in an order so that there will always be at least one available to you.
----------------------------------------
Legionnaire, Imperial Fist Chapter
Prince of Lost Legion
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pacey2169



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question now i always do good and exelent and even increditable alot butim still solid in my exp what does it take to get weighty or higher
----------------------------------------
Tad officer of the Mad Mutineers
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