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starrarose

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

 
 
If they took away the doubloon cost from EVERYTHING that you can buy that you don't need to be an officer/manager/owner to deliver, there would be doubloon costs on..... Paint. That's it. Paint doesn't get used enough to justify that..
Don't forget ships, enamel, dyes, cloth, subscriber swords, subscriber clothing, cannonballs... there's a lot on subscriber oceans that's undeliverable unless you have a ship or stall.
What Fiddler said. The only thing you NEED to be an officer/owner/manager to deliver - your wording - that has a doubloon cost is paint. And as a crewmate found out on Viridian - you don't need to be an officer to do that either - just have a ship in port and the doubloons on hand. And you don't need to have a subscription to deliver a new ship either. I didn't when I first started. I got the ship BEFORE I subscribed, found out I had to be subscribed to sail the thing and subbed.
 

 
Non subscribes on subscriber oceans get a message when ordering something they can't use without a subscription though, it doesn't seem to STOP them from doing it and they end up with stuff they've paid for but can't use.

What's to stop my child from ordering products on a doubloon ocean that may never be delivered and they will end up belonging to... the stall owner because they don't have enough doubloons to pick them up? I know my kids might forget to pick up stuff anyway. I've run stalls, I know things get abandoned. That's a separate issue.


40 days to pick it up and/or get the doubloons for it to pick it up. And one would hope you teach them how it works so they're NOT buying silly things all the time.

Call me strange but I figured that was what parents do... Speaking as a parent it's what I'm doing. My son doesn't have an account yet - his computer is in parts and not working and he does NOT play on mine, noone but me plays on mine, too much on there that I can't afford to lose for a third time - but he sits on a chair next to me and asks questions, lots of them. And as I put in a thread somewhere on here - he told ME I should close my tailor because it was losing money. The game is teaching him economics, it's great, surprising his prep teachers.
 

My kids like to shop and they'll buy all kinds of crazy things, but I'd like it to be theirs once they've purchased it.
I just don't like the fact you need doubloons to deliver a product you've paid for in advance with poes you took time to earn.


If nothing changes it teaches the value of saving for what you want - not a bad thing in todays "I must have NOW" culture that's developing.

 

So maybe the solution is to include the delivery cost of doubloons in the purchase up front, if it's so impossible to remove the cost of doubloons on delivery altogether. I still don't like it, but it would solve the problem I have of buying something and not being able to have it. If I really want it, I better have the doubloons already.


I could support that idea, it would probably require an entire reworking of the doubloon model though.
----------------------------------------
Phoenix - Black Plague to the core, Flag may change randomly.

Prometheus wrote: 
TheRack wrote: 

I think the OM's suck and are cheats.

no u

-Pro

[Jul 15, 2009 12:34:25 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Patetch

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

Another thing to consider - Tailor shops have racks with poe only items. Crimson may not have been around long enough to have any stocked racks yet, but it will get there. Also, as part of the labor overhaul that they are currently focusing on for all oceans, I believe more shop types will be getting racks.

Not only that but there is now the ability to have reserve labor in which an item can be purchased immediately. Other than that option, I wouldn't really want to have to pay the doubloon charge up front (though having the option would be good.) It is nice, for example to get work started on my sloop now and then take the time to earn more poe for the doubloons while it is being worked on.

No, it is not a direct relationship between paying customers on blue / green oceans. Subscription is definitely the better deal (Yes, before Crimson my main ocean was Sage.) The term "delivery charge" is definitely confusing - in fact, I think I will make a GD post about it. (Done)

A non-subscriber is basically a barefoot jobbing pirate that can live in an estate filled with stuff purchased with the poe he has earned. On a doubloon ocean, a non-paying customer can earn the poe to exchange for doubloons and then can either buy badges or a house or a ship or furniture or portraits...but it will take a LOT longer to get to the same level of virtual stuff as a non-subscriber. It may take 3x longer to earn the poe to be able to buy a pet (or a person could make a one time cash purchase of doubloons to get that pet earlier) but they will never have to pay again to be able to walk that pet.

Think of it this way...ever had any real life experience with "rent to own?" The concept is similar: don't pay as much up front but end up paying a lot more in the long run. The doubloon model works because people like being able to exchange virtual currency for the chance to do something extra. When my bravery badge runs out on Sage, I can easily exchange some poe for doubloons to buy another, and as an added bonus, if life gets busy and I don't log on for another 2 months, that badge is still sitting there waiting for me.

That works beautifully for badges, but you are right, it doesn't work logically for items. Even when the exchange rate was low, I thought many of the charges were excessive but now that the rate is high on the green oceans many are simply insane (particularly the flat rate items such as portraits, houses, and palace goods.)

However, badges alone are not enough reason to buy doubloons - there are many players who don't buy more than one badge and that can be fairly easily earned. The doubloons are there so that someone is paying money to Three Rings and that people are sinking their poe to get whatever aspect of the game they are interested in whether that is piracy, fashion modeling, or interior design.

The difference here, is that with the doubloon club, people are already planning on paying money to Three Rings each month (having a gift item available each month is a great marketing plan.) This is why I feel that red oceans should have a separate economy (no transferring of doubloons to green oceans) and lower prices across the board.
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Pletoo of Sage
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Patetch at Jul 15, 2009 8:19:57 AM]
[Jul 15, 2009 8:04:19 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
PoshJosh

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

 
Enamels, dyes, cloth, and cannonballs already have no doubloon delivery charge.

k, that I didn't know, as I have had no need to order them yet. And it still makes no sense to me why these would have no delivery charge but other items do. As I said, playing subbed for all my pirate life, I've had no need nor any desire to learn the doubloon system until now. I paid for a dub sub, I expected to use my dubs to play parlor games, to get a labor badge and to be able to use a ship. Blows my mind I don't have the dubs to get my wardrobe to put down my free navy clothes before they dust.

I've spent time earning poe to buy dubs to buy a ship, I don't play all day, I earn a little with my labor badge. I'm thinking... how are my kids gonna have the time to earn the dubs to buy the basic furniture i figure all pirates should have and do all the other things they want to do with the limited time, the limited skill, the limited poe and dubs the sub will provide... This is a Beta ocean for families which I'm excited about, but this is a problem I'm having with it. It's my feedback.

To me, this problem is as simple as this: you pay for something, it's yours to do with as you please. Whether you can use it or not, whether you forget it or not, if it's finished and you want to pick it up, you should be able to. I'm an old dog and the delivery charge is a dirty trick.

Patetch, thank you for your post, it walked me through it nicely.

 
That works beautifully for badges, but you are right, it doesn't work logically for items. Even when the exchange rate was low, I thought many of the charges were excessive but now that the rate is high on the green oceans many are simply insane (particularly the flat rate items such as portraits, houses, and palace goods.)
I'm not sure what those costs are but I think 9 dubs for a wardrobe is crazy. Maybe I wouldn't have been outraged at one or two dubs, maybe I wouldn't have posted if it was 3 or 4.

Starrarose, thank you for your blanket judgement and criticism of my parenting skills without knowing anything about me.

My kids have their accounts made, but I haven't dub subbed them yet, nor are they playing much yet, because I want them in my own crew, which I've been working towards creating. It's taking time. It's taking me weeks. I'm watching other people start crews, start shops, throwing money at all sorts of things they want immediately. I don't plan on my kids having everything they want immediately, it's going to take them plenty of time to earn poes to do the things they want. Just as it's taking me time to get things set up, spending the real money I've already budgeted for myself, using the time I have available to play. My kids will be on a similar budget for money and time.

They have been learning by watching me play. They have had limited playing time on sub oceans, so I'm aware of what they'll be wanting to do. Kids learn by watching and doing. I'm looking forward to the things they can learn by playing this game. However, if I'm running into things that frustrate me, then I'm thinking how much more frustrating it will be for my kids. Frustration for my family means we won't have fun, they won't want to play, and our little family experiment will be finished.


 
The difference here, is that with the doubloon club, people are already planning on paying money to Three Rings each month (having a gift item available each month is a great marketing plan.) This is why I feel that red oceans should have a separate economy (no transferring of doubloons to green oceans) and lower prices across the board.

After sitting on the fence about this, I am now in full support of this idea.
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~just call me STUPID
 
"No, you're stupid because you can neither remember what you said, nor read the bit I quoted. You should just give up and sod off already."
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Blobbles

[Jul 15, 2009 9:50:19 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Azathoth4

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

We do need a way to get rid of ships with no owners. As it stands now, no one can claim them, and the captain can not get rid of them. Over time, it will get very cluttered at the dock. Right now, it is not much of an issue, but it will become one. I already have one ownerless vessel, the result of a test. Don't know what the outcome of that will be...
Still pending resolution, so no one else try it unless you are willing to write off the ship. When I did it, I knew there was a good probability I would not get the ship back. My petition was not to have the ship returned so much as to figure what the resolution will be for any ownerless vessels. If I get it back, it's a bonus, as I already accepted that I might not get it back before I deleted it.
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Azathoth on Midnight, Viridian, Sage, Hunter, Crimson, and Ice
Asathoth on Cobalt and Malchite, because someone took Azathoth before I could
Captain of The Pallbearers, King of The Undertakers
[Jul 16, 2009 3:51:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azathoth [Link]  Go to top 
starrarose

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

 
We do need a way to get rid of ships with no owners. As it stands now, no one can claim them, and the captain can not get rid of them. Over time, it will get very cluttered at the dock. Right now, it is not much of an issue, but it will become one. I already have one ownerless vessel, the result of a test. Don't know what the outcome of that will be...
Still pending resolution, so no one else try it unless you are willing to write off the ship. When I did it, I knew there was a good probability I would not get the ship back. My petition was not to have the ship returned so much as to figure what the resolution will be for any ownerless vessels. If I get it back, it's a bonus, as I already accepted that I might not get it back before I deleted it.


A test pirate.... Remake it. Same name, should have the ship still if you get to it under the 3 day period that they hold our names if we do something stupid *grins*

I do agree that we need some way to fix the problem though.
----------------------------------------
Phoenix - Black Plague to the core, Flag may change randomly.

Prometheus wrote: 
TheRack wrote: 

I think the OM's suck and are cheats.

no u

-Pro

[Jul 16, 2009 4:23:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Azathoth4

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

 

A test pirate.... Remake it. Same name, should have the ship still if you get to it under the 3 day period that they hold our names if we do something stupid *grins*

I do agree that we need some way to fix the problem though.


Did that within a few minutes of deleting, and it was a no go. didn't even have the rat anymore, which was a shame because it was persimmon. Oh well

Update: This has been resolved for me this time, the developers are looking into a long term resolution for everyone.
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Azathoth on Midnight, Viridian, Sage, Hunter, Crimson, and Ice
Asathoth on Cobalt and Malchite, because someone took Azathoth before I could
Captain of The Pallbearers, King of The Undertakers
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Azathoth4 at Jul 16, 2009 3:15:00 PM]
[Jul 16, 2009 5:04:41 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azathoth [Link]  Go to top 
Thunderbird

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

 
A test pirate.... Remake it. Same name, should have the ship still if you get to it under the 3 day period that they hold our names if we do something stupid *grins*

I do agree that we need some way to fix the problem though.


If the pirate is being held in limbo, the name is still taken. If the pirate has been deleted, the deed has already been whisked to the market bidding table.
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Pirate tells you, "my, that's one BIG wad o' chewing gum ye have mounted on yer bonce! oO'"
Sungod officer chats, "I wonder if anyone's sailing the harpsichord"
Pirate tells you, "ZOMG CANDYFLOSS!!! *munches*"
[Jul 16, 2009 7:27:02 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
taelac

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

Very small request -- would it be possible to have a /greeter shortcut added to cover the DSC? "What does a purple name mean?" is still the most common question I get on Crimson, and I think it's going to be a fairly frequent thing to need to answer.
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~Taelac
ROMS XVII:Vanilla Filler
Dead Thread
[Jul 16, 2009 7:49:22 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Azathoth4

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

 
Very small request -- would it be possible to have a /greeter shortcut added to cover the DSC? "What does a purple name mean?" is still the most common question I get on Crimson, and I think it's going to be a fairly frequent thing to need to answer.

I second the motion, and thank the powers that be that allow my name to be appear yellow or pink by going on duty :)
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Azathoth on Midnight, Viridian, Sage, Hunter, Crimson, and Ice
Asathoth on Cobalt and Malchite, because someone took Azathoth before I could
Captain of The Pallbearers, King of The Undertakers
[Jul 16, 2009 9:20:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azathoth [Link]  Go to top 
BlackBeth

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

I was saddened today to see that the booty division practice of -1ing everyone who left before the end and +1ing everyone still on board at port, regardless of performance, has made its way to Crimson. Kids have short attention spans, and that doesn't seem very family friendly to me.

Kids are also less likely to notice an unfair booty division to vote it down; makes me wonder if the system should be revamped a little for the Family Oceans. Maybe only have the +1 option?
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Feylind

Semi-retired Midnight Cerulean Event Addict
[Jul 17, 2009 8:00:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    FeythePirate [Link]  Go to top 
Patetch

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

Question:
For whatever reason, the Cobalt / Viridian layout was chosen, but would it be possible before the end of beta to maybe get a chance to at least rename the islands? (A perfect opportunity for a contest) Is it just a simple matter to substitute one name for another or would it be very complicated indeed? For that matter, how complicated is it to substitute one island map for another on uncolonized islands? There are many island maps that kids would really enjoy seeing scattered throughout the other oceans (Yorrick on Ice comes to mind as it is shaped like a rat.)

Note: I am not suggesting changing locations of islands just names and possibly appearances - I am sure the memmers (myself included) would be rather upset to find their islands have moved.)

I have several reasons behind this request.
1)To make the names a little more kid friendly - some names are very hard to spell or pronounce (Diastrophe, Cochineal, Pranayama, Sakejima to name a few.) The chat filters are already going to make these quite a struggle for many kids.
2)To restore the "joy of discovery" when seeing a new island name or getting a chart to a new route.
3)To give Crimson players some sense of ownership to the ocean, helping them feel more like this is their home ocean rather than just a copy.
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Pletoo of Sage
[Jul 17, 2009 12:06:44 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Azathoth4

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

 
I was saddened today to see that the booty division practice of -1ing everyone who left before the end and +1ing everyone still on board at port, regardless of performance, has made its way to Crimson. Kids have short attention spans, and that doesn't seem very family friendly to me.

Kids are also less likely to notice an unfair booty division to vote it down; makes me wonder if the system should be revamped a little for the Family Oceans. Maybe only have the +1 option?

Why is this unfair? If you bail before port, whether it is for a legitimate reason or simply because you can't be bothered to stay, it increases the work load of everyone else and decreases the chance of arriving at port safely. And no, dinner, chores, bedtime, time for school, etc are not legitimate reasons for leaving. These show poor planning and a disregard for others. I believe it to be important ESPECIALLY with young children, to reinforce responsible behavior. Increasing the workload of the OIC and others on the ship is irresponsible and inconsiderate. Yes, I understand we are talking about young children, maybe, and I know they can be inconsiderate, but the longer they get away with bad habits the more difficult it is to get them to stop. Just look at the other oceans, where presumably everyone is old enough to know better. Many times I have had people come to one of my voyages and leave before we even get to the first LP because they had to go to school. If you don't have time to even stay 2-3 minutes...
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Azathoth on Midnight, Viridian, Sage, Hunter, Crimson, and Ice
Asathoth on Cobalt and Malchite, because someone took Azathoth before I could
Captain of The Pallbearers, King of The Undertakers
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Azathoth4 at Jul 17, 2009 12:45:04 PM]
[Jul 17, 2009 12:44:22 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azathoth [Link]  Go to top 
Patetch

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

 
Increasing the workload of the OIC and others on the ship is irresponsible and inconsiderate.

This is why I suggested a junior version. Younger kids would be sheltered somewhat without burdening those in charge but if they want to play with the bigger kids (receive the benefits that come with toggling off the "junior" status) then they need to accept the added responsibility and planning that comes with working without the safety net, so to speak. Obviously in this case, the junior players could not be given a -1.

I personally do not agree with the practice of giving a minus to anyone who is still not on board at port (and went into further detail in this discussion with suggestions of some adjustments that could be made.) Jobbing with someone is not a contract that they are entitled to my time for the duration of the pillage. Yes, hopping on when you know you only have a few minutes or leaving during battle is rude and inconsiderate, but getting called off unexpectedly is not, nor is sticking around for a battle or two and then leaving.
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Pletoo of Sage
[Jul 17, 2009 1:41:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
taelac

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

 
And no, dinner, chores, bedtime, time for school, etc are not legitimate reasons for leaving. These show poor planning and a disregard for others. I believe it to be important ESPECIALLY with young children, to reinforce responsible behavior. Increasing the workload of the OIC and others on the ship is irresponsible and inconsiderate.

No.

Continuing to play a computer game at the expense of real life considerations is irresponsible.

On family oceans, there is a greater likelihood of jobber turnover that will require pillage leaders to adapt. By all means, teach kids that they should check the time before joining a pillage and try not to leave in battle, but they should not be penalized for being unable to stay more than half an hour.

My 8yo son's preference for pillages seems to be in the 4-5 close battle range. We did one the other day with six, and he was having a hard time staying focused by the end of it. We did one last night with three battles, and he commented that it was a short pillage -- part of that was because I didn't go farther than two leagues from port, so there was little sailing to do after the third battle. Younger children will probably prefer 2-3 battles, but are also unlikely to be jobbing with anyone but their immediate family/crew. Kids nearing 13 will be able to stay engaged for more than 5 battles, but may still run into time limits.
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~Taelac
ROMS XVII:Vanilla Filler
Dead Thread
[Jul 17, 2009 1:42:27 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Patetch

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

 
Continuing to play a computer game at the expense of real life considerations is irresponsible.
Aye, moms (and other real life adults) outrank captains, and sometimes they tell kids to get off the computer, even when the kid thought they had a free hour to play.

Anyway...I forgot to write what I originally had come to this thread for.

The parental emails that get sent out when a Crimson account is created probably should include information about setting up chat logging.
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Pletoo of Sage
[Jul 17, 2009 1:49:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
celiatr

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

 
I was saddened today to see that the booty division practice of -1ing everyone who left before the end and +1ing everyone still on board at port, regardless of performance, has made its way to Crimson. Kids have short attention spans, and that doesn't seem very family friendly to me.

Kids are also less likely to notice an unfair booty division to vote it down; makes me wonder if the system should be revamped a little for the Family Oceans. Maybe only have the +1 option?

I agree with this. This is a Family Server and it should be fair. -1 a kid because their mom/dad/whoever said they had to get off for whatever reason and prevented them from being able to complete the voyage should not allow them to be -1. Its one thing if its the other production oceans but this is aimed for the kids.
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Flutie
Midnight Cerulean Ocean

April 1, 2009 on Midnight Ocean [21:22:49] Eurydice broadcasts, "Okay, Flutie, this better be good."

ROMS ~ The Subforum/Dead Thread
[Jul 17, 2009 1:50:10 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
celiatr

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

 
Question:
For whatever reason, the Cobalt / Viridian layout was chosen, but would it be possible before the end of beta to maybe get a chance to at least rename the islands? (A perfect opportunity for a contest) Is it just a simple matter to substitute one name for another or would it be very complicated indeed? For that matter, how complicated is it to substitute one island map for another on uncolonized islands? There are many island maps that kids would really enjoy seeing scattered throughout the other oceans (Yorrick on Ice comes to mind as it is shaped like a rat.)

Note: I am not suggesting changing locations of islands just names and possibly appearances - I am sure the memmers (myself included) would be rather upset to find their islands have moved.)

I have several reasons behind this request.
1)To make the names a little more kid friendly - some names are very hard to spell or pronounce (Diastrophe, Cochineal, Pranayama, Sakejima to name a few.) The chat filters are already going to make these quite a struggle for many kids.
2)To restore the "joy of discovery" when seeing a new island name or getting a chart to a new route.
3)To give Crimson players some sense of ownership to the ocean, helping them feel more like this is their home ocean rather than just a copy.

Aye, I was just thinking about this last night but thought sleep was more important. I actually would have liked to see the ocean based off of Midnight to begin with as the names are just easier and it is the only ocean (excluding Malachite) that does not have a twin elsewhere. Names for Malachite, at least some of them would probably cause lots of problems for the kids.

You can never go wrong with Orca, Turtle, Macaw, Angelfish, Tadpole, etc. to name a few, those are fun animal names somewhat like Rhodin is thinking. But this is my thoughts anyway.

Heck, I know probably 95% of people are mispronouncing Atchafalaya (Malachite) and it is one that will always make me giggle. (Even worse when you come home from and errand on the other side of the Atchafalaya river, can see the weather channel people recording on the dock and come home to watch it air, and he misprounces it.
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Flutie
Midnight Cerulean Ocean

April 1, 2009 on Midnight Ocean [21:22:49] Eurydice broadcasts, "Okay, Flutie, this better be good."

ROMS ~ The Subforum/Dead Thread
[Jul 17, 2009 2:01:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Azathoth4

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

 
 
And no, dinner, chores, bedtime, time for school, etc are not legitimate reasons for leaving. These show poor planning and a disregard for others. I believe it to be important ESPECIALLY with young children, to reinforce responsible behavior. Increasing the workload of the OIC and others on the ship is irresponsible and inconsiderate.

No.

Continuing to play a computer game at the expense of real life considerations is irresponsible.


Yes, and you missed my point. They know they have these real life consideration, and chose to ignore them. It isn't an either/or situation, it is possible to be irresponsible in both real life and the game at the same time. By far most of the people I have leaving early jump on the ship and leave five minutes later or less, often for things like dinner (They don't know when dinner time is?), School, or their parents told them not to use the computer before X was done and they haven't done it. I don't expect them to finish a pillage in spite of real life considerations, I expect them to take real life into consideration before the start playing.

I expect people to be able to stay around 20 minutes at least for a pillage, I typically don't minus anyone on a voyage but myself, and plus those that jobbed after the last battle and/or went above the call to help the ship. I will minus if someone leaves mid-battle, especially if we lose, but will otherwise usually just leave them as is.
----------------------------------------
Azathoth on Midnight, Viridian, Sage, Hunter, Crimson, and Ice
Asathoth on Cobalt and Malchite, because someone took Azathoth before I could
Captain of The Pallbearers, King of The Undertakers
[Jul 17, 2009 2:21:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azathoth [Link]  Go to top 
cmdrzoom

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

 
Continuing to play a computer game at the expense of real life considerations is irresponsible.

So is starting to play a computer game when one has imminent real life considerations.

Look, if we want to make this the official Half-***ed Ocean because most of the players it's intended for can't or won't keep any commitment past the next ten minutes, can we just say so? It'd save everyone a lot of grief, and maybe we can get the existing pillaging mechanics (which still don't really support that kind of gaming style) further modified.
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Starhawk of Mad Mutineers, Azure
Catalina of Twilight's Sabre, Cobalt
[Jul 17, 2009 3:20:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
starrarose

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Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 6123
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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

 
 
I was saddened today to see that the booty division practice of -1ing everyone who left before the end and +1ing everyone still on board at port, regardless of performance, has made its way to Crimson. Kids have short attention spans, and that doesn't seem very family friendly to me.

Kids are also less likely to notice an unfair booty division to vote it down; makes me wonder if the system should be revamped a little for the Family Oceans. Maybe only have the +1 option?

Why is this unfair? If you bail before port, whether it is for a legitimate reason or simply because you can't be bothered to stay, it increases the work load of everyone else and decreases the chance of arriving at port safely.


It's unfair because it in effect takes TWO battles away from those who have been hit with the -1 and gives +2 to those who got the +1. Next time you're leading a pillage, play with the buttons a bit and watch just HOW MUCH it changes.

If you bail before port on my ship - you'd better have done it out of battle, or you never get on my ship again. Out of battle, I don't care. I chart memming routes so I'm sure as heck not going to object if people can't stay for the whole 38 odd leagues that I've charted, it is in fact one of my shortkeys "I don't mind if you can't stay to port, but don't leave in battle"

And as for it making it harder - I haven't noticed it being harder, in fact.... some times it's a lot EASIER to go somewhere without anyone else on board.

One thing about the taking away the minusing - I'd support, but only if it's left in that I can minus MYSELF as Officer in Charge

I made myself a crew because the 30% I was getting for restock was insane, dropped it to 15% and still find myself ending up with stupid amounts of PoE.

Dinner, chores and bedtime are perfectly legitimate reasons for leaving a ship though. I mean I TRY to have dinner on the table at 6pm every night - doesn't always work though, sometimes it takes longer than that. Chores.... Parents think up more chores at the drop of a hat. Again using myself as an example, you play while I fold clothes, I get to end of basket of clothes, you have a new chore that wasn't there when you sat down. Bedtime is certainly a reason that has been used FOREVER and not just by kids. When you get too tired to see the puzzles anymore do you stay doing what you're doing? I don't, I go to bed. So I'm certainly not seeing why we should penalise kids who get the last hour before bed time to play because they have to go to bed.

At the moment, the only thing that I want to change can't be changed anyway so it doesn't matter. Yeah I'm sick of some of the people already. Not the ones who are obviously kids, they do what you tell them as long as you explain why. I'm sick to death of the people who think it's their RIGHT to have 5 battles a league when they job onto a ship - on a new ocean, on a route with only us on it, when there's only enough people ONLINE to fill 3 sloops total anyway - complaining about spawns. I'm sick to death of people who have no intention whatsoever of staying and playing and teaching on the ocean coming over and making the scoring curves totally impossible - I don't know if it's a bot or just people BUT Sea Donkey - Bingo - Bingo - Sea Donkey - Bingo - Bingo SHOULDN'T LEAVE MY PUMP BLUE OR SCORE ME A FINE when it's all done under one league.

Really people, if you're not intending to stay and make the ocean work - get off, especially since it's YOU that are whining about spawns, whining about things not being available to buy, whining about there being no pillages on the noticeboard and whining at the top of your lungs that there's no CI, no Atlantis and no Flotillas. READ SOMETHING ABOUT THE OCEAN BEFORE YOU START WHINGING.

*breathes*
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Phoenix - Black Plague to the core, Flag may change randomly.

Prometheus wrote: 
TheRack wrote: 

I think the OM's suck and are cheats.

no u

-Pro

[Jul 17, 2009 3:34:46 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
moonmaiden79

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Joined: Aug 16, 2005
Posts: 739
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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

The whole -1 argument held a lot more ground before the auto-divi. Jobbers get 50% of their cut immediately after battle as long as they stay on the ship... Before that you could -1 someone and not pay them a dime for an entire battle. Before that, long ago, you could -2 or -3 someone down to zero. It has been modified over the years to be more fair and to reduce abuse by the OiC. There is already a security blanket to make sure that people get paid if they stay the entire battle, even if its just 1/2 a battle's pay, they get paid something no matter what.

I have a 9 year old, and I've explained to him that he should not join a voyage if he doesn't have enough time to stay for a couple battles. (Not only on this game but other games where there are 'missions' that require X amount of time to complete or you get nothing.) I don't feel it's overly cruel to just say "Tough luck, you ran out of time, turn it off." He needs to learn how to use his time more wisely. I wouldn't jump down the throat of some poor officer because my son joined his pillage and left him hanging with no warning.

I grow incredibly weary of the idea that since children are allowed to play on this ocean that we should remove any tools by which a captain/oic has control over their own voyages and jobbers. Yet, on the other hand there are people out there wanting to give such an unruly amount of power, to those in charge that it would create much larger problems than a -1, (deserved, or not.)

The thing that needs to be put into perspective is that children are not unaware of consequences in games. If Mario falls down the little hole three times its game over mates. I've yet to meet a child who couldn't accept those types of consequences... They won't die of a broken heart if they get planked for lazing or get -1'd for leaving early. The thing that really drives me crazy is that its assumed that the only reason these things EVER happen is because someone is abusing power.

These consequences are there to be used at the will of the OiC, if they are abusing it people won't job for them and they will be complained, simple as that.

This reminds me of when TH first came out, there were some requests in GD to have a control that would not allow people to TH unless the OiC said it was 'ok.' Eventually we gained the cowbell commands that whistle across the ship, but the request to have ultimate power over those on the ship was denied. The social puzzle is a HUGE part of the game, people have to learn how to get along, on both the jobber and the OiC side of things... Don't take that away because of the 'helpless children' please...
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Stabatha- Tarts of Doom, Obsidian
[Jul 17, 2009 3:36:45 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Oceansadness

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

I believe balance is very important. I am an adult, but I am not very good at spending 2+ hours puzzling, so these "happy people" that make neverending pillages and get upset if you leave after five or six battles when you realise how far the end may be... It is even funnier when it is a flaggie or heartie that whined 'cos they are having a bad pillage and losing and have damage and bilge and/or everyone suddenly left and/or someone key dc-ed, and you leave what you're doing and jump aboard to help out to port, and then they work out the issue and decide to go on and get upset if you'd rather go back to what you were actually doing instead of staying there for a couple hours...

But, of course, going to a pillage and staying for five minutes is a no-no. Leaving in battle is reason for a minus. Suddenly feeling the urge to leave precisely after a bad battle when there is damage and bilge, without helping out at all, may be. Being a key gunner and leaving without any warning is an annoyance...

There is a whole universe of grey in between that should NOT be automatically given a minus, as some people do, just because they are not there any more when touching port. That is my opinion. And, by all means, emergencies are always to be considered.

Regarding the big differences. I always make sure there is a balance in money. The trick? The number of minuses and pluses should be the same. How to do it? If there are more pluses, minus yourself until they are equalled. If there are more minuses, plus someone who did good... I usually plus (good) gunners, sometimes the dnavver, people who stayed in a very regular way throughout the pillage, someone who did particularly good at some point... As it was suggested, play with the numbers to see what I'm talking about: sometimes the difference in money is huge, and by plusing or minusing people you are giving a lot more or less money to everyone...
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Sedna in Sage. Sedna/Seawaterdrop in Emerald

If it floats, shoot at it!
[Jul 18, 2009 2:09:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Patetch

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Joined: Apr 22, 2006
Posts: 3340
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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

It has been noted that possibly the mechanics of being able to minus someone might need another look, especially here on Crimson, and it has also been noted that people feel strongly on both sides of the discussion. It seems to have carried on beyond Crimson to the game in general and there is a fairly recent thread there (that I linked to a few posts back called, "punishing pilly leavers." It has quite a bit of discussion and several ideas for ways to balance things out.

I recommend that anyone who still feels strongly takes a look at that discussion and post over there so we can get back on track here.
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Pletoo of Sage
[Jul 18, 2009 5:59:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tkp42

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Joined: Dec 7, 2003
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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

Re: Islands ~ In addition to Yorrick, how about Mini? They are both beautiful, and I think kids would like them.





But this is why Mini is so cool:





And Emerson knows Wemadeit is one of my faves:



Sorry for the big pictures, but I love these islands from Ice. =)
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Tonya+nator
Claiming poker ruined the game since 2006
[Jul 18, 2009 7:46:40 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://ice.puzzlepirates.com/yoweb/pirate.wm?target=Tonyanator [Link]  Go to top 
Patetch

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

Aye - I love those islands too - it is a pity that they are tucked away on Ice.
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Pletoo of Sage
[Jul 18, 2009 8:08:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
randompanzy

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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

it would of been awesome if ice oceans would of made it on crimson but it seems way to late to do that now :S
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Randompanzy from Viridian now sailing on Obsidian
SO of Lion's Roar
Titled Member of Placeholder
The views on my post are of my own and not my flag.

 
Tranquilized says, u kno yer notorious for lagging? xD

[Jul 18, 2009 9:27:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.teamepsilon.net    phillip1904    GB Fayt    I'm a little kitty that goes MOO! :D [Link]  Go to top 
BehindCurtai

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Joined: May 25, 2004
Posts: 12589
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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

 
 
Enamels, dyes, cloth, and cannonballs already have no doubloon delivery charge.

And it still makes no sense to me why these would have no delivery charge but other items do.


These are not final items.

Enamels, dyes, and cloth all are inputs to other items.
Cannonballs exist only to be destroyed in battle.

The oddball is paint. It is used as input to other items, but when it first came out it was only an end product. It should not have a doubloon charge; the charge should be on painting the walls, not on the paint itself.

Doubloon fees for items is the alternative to subscription fees. Instead of paying $X per month, you pay $X per so-much-worth-of-items that you buy. (Approximately).

 
I paid for a dub sub, I expected to use my dubs to play parlor games, to get a labor badge and to be able to use a ship. Blows my mind I don't have the dubs to get my wardrobe to put down my free navy clothes before they dust.

What do you mean by a dub sub? Do you mean the doubloon club?

If so, you have spent $5. You have spent some on badges. You want to buy a ship.

Do you expect to do all this during your first month? Do you expect to use all 30 login days in one month?

Chances are very good that at the end of the month you will still have days left on your badges. This means that next month, your cost of badges will be less. If you purchased a 60-day or 90-day sword, or any long-life clothing, then your sword/bludgeon/clothing expenses will be less next month as well.

On a sub ocean, you'll have spent $10, have nothing left over at the end of the month, and may or may not have gotten all the poe you need for your stuff. To get the poe to get your stuff, and then use it for the next 30 login days, you'll have spent at least two, if not three months of subscriptions. Don't expect that your first month on a doubloon ocean will have the same costs as the first month on a sub ocean.

 
I've spent time earning poe to buy dubs to buy a ship


Ahh. That's the problem.

A ship costs 20 dubs plus poe. If you have 10 dubs left over from each of your first two months allowance of doubloons, then you can get your ship at the start of the second month without having to buy doubloons with poe on the exchange.

THAT's the mindset that you need for the doubloon oceans.

 
how are my kids gonna have the time to earn the dubs to buy the basic furniture i figure all pirates should have and do all the other things they want to do with the limited time, the limited skill, the limited poe and dubs the sub will provide...

They have a doubloon allowance. They cannot get everything that they want. They have to save up for some things.

Does that sound like a good lesson for children to learn?

 
To me, this problem is as simple as this: you pay for something, it's yours to do with as you please. Whether you can use it or not, whether you forget it or not, if it's finished and you want to pick it up, you should be able to. I'm an old dog and the delivery charge is a dirty trick.

On sub oceans, you pay for a time limited, unlimited usage unlock.

On dub oceans, you pay for a bunch of arcade tokens. These tokens permit time unlimited, but limited quantity unlock.

Housing/furniture, portraits, a few other areas are, I feel, overpriced. Most things are "not".

"Not": Look at the doubloon charge to sink poe. Palace items generally are 1000 poe sunk per dub; most items in the stores are around 100-300 poe sunk per dub. Palace items, and housing, tends to be relatively cheap, but because of the high price level, seem much higher than it really is. Looking at the breakdown of dubs spent per category, housing/furniture/portraits get very few doubloons sunk compared to the other areas; this is an area where I feel OOO would sell much more if the dub cost was less -- around 3000-8000 poe per dub sunk.

Swords generally are around 3 doubloons per 30 days. Better quality swords cost three times as much doubloons, but 6-8 times as much poe. 3 doubloons per 30 login days isn't that much, but the poe sunk per dub is pretty low.
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"We're trying to find the error bars on that number"

Dylan wrote: 
Why buy sham poo when real poo is so readily available

[Jul 19, 2009 10:31:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://StrictConstitution.BlogSpot.Com [Link]  Go to top 
starrarose

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Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 6123
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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

Could we PLEASE get the fame required to join a flag bumped up to what it is on normal oceans? Not to create, just to join.

My crew's public statement wrote: 
Do not want a flag stop sending invites.


Apparently that isn't enough since you can invite at Aspiring at the moment.
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Phoenix - Black Plague to the core, Flag may change randomly.

Prometheus wrote: 
TheRack wrote: 

I think the OM's suck and are cheats.

no u

-Pro

[Jul 20, 2009 5:28:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tkp42

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Joined: Dec 7, 2003
Posts: 1191
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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

War dec 'em. Oh, wait. No sinking.

Can you even declare war on Crimson? If so, what's the point?
.
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Tonya+nator
Claiming poker ruined the game since 2006
[Jul 21, 2009 5:05:31 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://ice.puzzlepirates.com/yoweb/pirate.wm?target=Tonyanator [Link]  Go to top 
burnella

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Joined: May 6, 2005
Posts: 16
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Re: Family Ocean Beta Feedback

 
I was saddened today to see that the booty division practice of -1ing everyone who left before the end and +1ing everyone still on board at port, regardless of performance, has made its way to Crimson. Kids have short attention spans, and that doesn't seem very family friendly to me.

Kids are also less likely to notice an unfair booty division to vote it down; makes me wonder if the system should be revamped a little for the Family Oceans. Maybe only have the +1 option?


I know many of you want the kids to 'learn' to be disciplined, but I instead agree with this post. I think this ocean should be much friendlier than the other oceans. If kids leave in the middle of pilleys, they leave.

If this ocean is the same as all the other oceans, what's the point? I really feel if you want pirates to stay til the end of your pilleys and other such rules, than the adult oceans are where you should dwell.

If the designers or serious pillagers feel they can't let those 'rules' go, maybe there should be a section on the jobbing panel for greeter-like pilleys called family pillages. These pillages would be places where -1's wouldn't occur. They could even be where any puzzling would help the common good of the ship....Just a thought.
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Arrrrr!

Snubnose on Viridian, Cobalt & Crimson
Arrmani on Hunter
[Jul 21, 2009 9:42:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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