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Rappak

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How to memorise league points. Reply to this Post
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We really need to sticky a how to mem thread with links, side note.

Edited to update.

I know I've memmed a route in 2 tries. I just did Chapperal to Monsoon in 2. Speculation is that if you get increds, you will only need 2 times or so, maybe only one. Also, Rankings from what I hear really do matter as it might take 5 fines or 2 increds or 3 excellents or something like that. Booches don't count as well as poors. Switching right before a league point doesn't help because you haven't built up the points to earn a good grade on the Nav puzzle. I'm not sure if Ranking has anything to do with it either. Experience might also apply here too.

From my personal observations include this:

1. Score matters
2. naving for a long time helps.
3. Rankings and Experience don't matter.
4. getting drawn into battle sucks and causes points to be not memmed while others will, hense, the lone dot syndrom.
5. Passing back and forth DOES work. It's your score at the league point that matters. I've infact done this over the lone dot problem.
6. The max number of times to mem a point appears to be 5. Also, it most cases it does take 5 times to mem a point.
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Rappak, memmer of the oceans.

Rappak- Ex-king of Something Powerful (Cobalt)/ex-Lord of Indestructible Fury, a caged free-bird forever.
Rappak- Officer in Easily Distracted (Midnight)/Mem helper in CT/Where am I?
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Rappak at Nov 5, 2004 7:21:48 AM]
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Rappak

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Re: How to memorise league points. Reply to this Post
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http://www.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthread?thread=12940
That's the thread where I posted the other relavent links to the discussion of memming. Enjoy!
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Rappak, memmer of the oceans.

Rappak- Ex-king of Something Powerful (Cobalt)/ex-Lord of Indestructible Fury, a caged free-bird forever.
Rappak- Officer in Easily Distracted (Midnight)/Mem helper in CT/Where am I?
[Nov 5, 2004 7:23:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
DruidBob



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Re: How to memorise league points. Reply to this Post
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Rappak wrote: 
We really need to sticky a how to mem thread with links, side note.

I know I've memmed a route in 2 tries. I just did Chapperal to Monsoon in 2. Speculation is that if you get increds, you will only need 2 times or so, maybe only one. Also, Rankings from what I hear really do matter as it might take 5 fines or 2 increds or 3 excellents or something like that. Booches don't count as well as poors. Switching right before a league point doesn't help because you haven't built up the points to earn a good grade on the Nav puzzle. I'm not sure if Ranking has anything to do with it either. Experience might also apply here too.

From my personal observations include this:

1. Score matters
2. naving for a long time helps.
3. Rankings and Experience don't matter.
4. getting drawn into battle sucks and causes points to be not memmed while others will, hense, the lone dot syndrom.
5. Passing back and forth DOES work. It's your score at the league point that matters. I've infact done this over the lone dot problem.


You must have been over it before and forgotten, or there's a random number generatior involved and you've been quite lucky. I recently created a new char for the point of learning the uncomon/old routes, and having a chart-anything-player in my new crew. He's just hit the top 10 arch, (though fell off a day later), and it's still taken me about 5 runs for each point, I've been doing 100+ points a sail, and it's almost always ex/inc unless I lag into a briggand.
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Rappak

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Nope. I've never been over in that area specifically because I never had the maps. My old crew never went really outside diamond and really never went farther than one arch away, though they are now located in pearl.
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Rappak, memmer of the oceans.

Rappak- Ex-king of Something Powerful (Cobalt)/ex-Lord of Indestructible Fury, a caged free-bird forever.
Rappak- Officer in Easily Distracted (Midnight)/Mem helper in CT/Where am I?
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DruidBob



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Huh, guess I've just been extremely unlucky so far then.
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of the flag Avalon.

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Rappak

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After finishing up some additional memming, it does appear that it is about 2-5 times minimum while getting fine or above. Though I'm not quite sure, however very sure, that increds shorten the time.
----------------------------------------
Rappak, memmer of the oceans.

Rappak- Ex-king of Something Powerful (Cobalt)/ex-Lord of Indestructible Fury, a caged free-bird forever.
Rappak- Officer in Easily Distracted (Midnight)/Mem helper in CT/Where am I?
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Sarterixa



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Your nav score does not have any effect on how long it takes for you to memorize a point. I've gone over a point 6 times with an incredible before it memorized, and I've gone over a point twice before it memorized. There is no rhyme or reason to it; it is completely random.

The number of times you need to go over a league point before it is memorized is somewhere between 2-7. Note that you do need a fine or above in order to get credit.
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Sart
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CrazyMorg



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lol now thats a bump...

and man i was an idiot back in me young days...

btw, many will argue i still am, and theyre probably right actually...:P
[Nov 5, 2004 5:08:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
54x

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I've split this off from that piece of thread necromancy. I'll ?berthread this one. :)
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Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
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DruidBob



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Having someone chart it for you, who already had it memorised, used to decrease the amount of time it took.
Is that still the case? (as I was gone for ~3 months and it could have changed then)
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[size=9]Deus Ex Machina,
of the flag Avalon.

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54x

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Re: How to memorise league points. Reply to this Post
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DruidBob wrote: 
Having someone chart it for you, who already had it memorised, used to decrease the amount of time it took.
Is that still the case? (as I was gone for ~3 months and it could have changed then)


What do you mean, decrease the time it took? You can still get someone to chart the course for you, (either by trading them a deed to one of your ships, or if they're in your crew already) but it doesn't reduce the number of times you have to pass over the league point.

I'm undecided on whether your score (above fine) has any impact on memorisation, but I'm leaning towards: "Memorisation is completely random, and is turned on by performing fine or better, and being in the puzzle when you hit the league point."
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
[Nov 5, 2004 7:22:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mjwhitehead.com/    raasike54    secondlight5454    32987700 [Link]  Go to top 
Rappak

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Having someone who charts it for you doesn't decrease the time from my understanding. It's your abilities to do the puzzle that determine how many times you have to go over the route in order to mem the route/points.
----------------------------------------
Rappak, memmer of the oceans.

Rappak- Ex-king of Something Powerful (Cobalt)/ex-Lord of Indestructible Fury, a caged free-bird forever.
Rappak- Officer in Easily Distracted (Midnight)/Mem helper in CT/Where am I?
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DevineHL2

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Some things that have helped me mem....

- Don't port unless you really need to, when you port, you go back to minimum speed. Rechart without porting. That way you keep yer speed, and it's easier to avoid battles. Also, the faster you go, the faster the leagues go, and the more likely you are to maintain a good score for that leauge

- And with avoiding battles, when i needed to turn about, i'd always sail back to the previous league point. Since you've just lost speed by turning about, you dno't want to lose more speed by turning about again. If you set sail at a league point to head the correct direction again, you don't lose speed there.

- The other thing that REALLY helped me out was running loops around the archs. I did emerald in 2 sections, the top half and the lower half. I just kept running circles around the top half until it was done, i think it took me 3 or 4 circuits and then i only had to go and get like 1 or 2 extranous points that didn't mem. Lather rinse repeat with the bottom half. I think circuits can be worked with most of the archs.

- And when doing a straight route, like an interarch, say, Turtle-Jorvik or something, I think it helps to sail 1 league out in the opposite direction, say towards cnossos, then at that first league marker, rechart to eta. This gives you a little leeway to get the puzzle going by the time you get back to turtle. Sail one league past jorvik, and rechart back down to cnossos. Sail that 1 league past turtle, and rechart again.

These are the things i used, and i got done with the ocean fairly quickly.

I hope these help! Thanks.
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--A Folkie for all oceans (but mostly Malachite these days)
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Rappak

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Yes. I use all of those techs. Though, You mem the dot the island is on just by bouncing back and forth from ship to island a few times.
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Rappak, memmer of the oceans.

Rappak- Ex-king of Something Powerful (Cobalt)/ex-Lord of Indestructible Fury, a caged free-bird forever.
Rappak- Officer in Easily Distracted (Midnight)/Mem helper in CT/Where am I?
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DevineHL2

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Yeah, that i do, I don't back track a league in th eother direction to get the island point, i use that to help get the first dot going the right way away from the island quicker. It takes me a bit to get the puzzle going, so going in the opposite direction fer a league, then recharting gives me just enough space to get the puzzle going well to get that 1st league out. :-D
----------------------------------------
--A Folkie for all oceans (but mostly Malachite these days)
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54x

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I found that logging off on an island then reboarding a ship memmed the league point. I'm not sure if it's just because of boarding the ship or due to the logoff.

As for memming in circuits, it's advantageous in that it is a much better way to repeat the same route, but it's also a disadvantage in that it can be much more frustrating to deal with individual missing league points, as the island you end your circuit on may be quite some distance from your last remaining league to mem.

Oh, and as a word to the wise: Learn to sail without rum. When memming the outer archs, it's much easier to run out and the better you are at managing a rumless vessel the better your luck will be...
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
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Sarterixa



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54x wrote: 

Oh, and as a word to the wise: Learn to sail without rum. When memming the outer archs, it's much easier to run out and the better you are at managing a rumless vessel the better your luck will be...


That's terrible advice. Better advice: Don't run out of rum. It's not hard as long as you don't go about losing every single battle you get into.

Operating a ship without rum is a losing battle no matter how you go about it, especially if you're solo. Take even the slightest amount of damage and you're screwed.
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Sart
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[Nov 6, 2004 8:41:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
54x

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Sarterixa wrote: 
54x wrote: 

Oh, and as a word to the wise: Learn to sail without rum. When memming the outer archs, it's much easier to run out and the better you are at managing a rumless vessel the better your luck will be...


That's terrible advice. Better advice: Don't run out of rum. It's not hard as long as you don't go about losing every single battle you get into.

Operating a ship without rum is a losing battle no matter how you go about it, especially if you're solo. Take even the slightest amount of damage and you're screwed.


Heh. I often run out of rum just because I'm absent-minded. Yes, it is better not to have to run out of it, but I'd wager most people will end up in that situation by accident at some point, and it is worth refining your skills in vessel management to deal with such things.
----------------------------------------
Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
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Rappak

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There's two sides to this.

No-Rum. This strategy suggests that you will be a lot slower so you can get the better grades when hitting the league points. I've seen this strategy work wonders for some who need a lot of time to get the increds or excellents. It also cuts down on costs and some people like that. There are rumors that this strategy cuts down on the memming time, but I haven't seen that confirmmed.

With Rum. can go faster to get away from battles. This is the way in which I perfer. I use the 2-ship Method where I take two ships, one stocked with Rum and one normal and use my stocked ship as a base so I won't have to worry about rum. It's worked well for me and in addition, if I do forage or come across a rare that I want to keep or sell somewhere else, I can deposit it there and not have to worry about it getting lost in a battle.
----------------------------------------
Rappak, memmer of the oceans.

Rappak- Ex-king of Something Powerful (Cobalt)/ex-Lord of Indestructible Fury, a caged free-bird forever.
Rappak- Officer in Easily Distracted (Midnight)/Mem helper in CT/Where am I?
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Rastigi



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Rappak wrote: 
With Rum. can go faster to get away from battles. This is the way in which I perfer. I use the 2-ship Method where I take two ships, one stocked with Rum and one normal and use my stocked ship as a base so I won't have to worry about rum. It's worked well for me and in addition, if I do forage or come across a rare that I want to keep or sell somewhere else, I can deposit it there and not have to worry about it getting lost in a battle.


I just take one ship out, and don't get into battles. This allows you to do the entire arch without porting. I normally sail (well, did sail, I don't have anything left to mem) over a long route three times, then check and see if I learned it.

54x wrote: 
I found that logging off on an island then reboarding a ship memmed the league point. I'm not sure if it's just because of boarding the ship or due to the logoff.


Either logging off on the island or disembarking and reboarding several times will let you learn the island.

54x wrote: 
I'm undecided on whether your score (above fine) has any impact on memorisation, but I'm leaning towards: "Memorisation is completely random, and is turned on by performing fine or better, and being in the puzzle when you hit the league point."

I'm 100% convinced that your score matters while memorizing. The reason I say that is this - back when it was hard to get an excellent on the first league (which I am so glad they fixed), I never memorized that first league point in three trips unless I got excellent on it every time. I would often memorize other points in 3 trips. There is, however, also a random number generator involved. There was one particular point that took me around 10 trips to learn.
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Vote Bubba for President in '08, cause Shrimpin' is Great!
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Anything else? Please don't say, 'Make everything FREEEEEE!!1!!'

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Skal

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I'm going to side with the camp that says score (above Poor) doesn't matter. With consistent incredibles, it still takes me 5-7 trips to memorize a point. Also, my missing points are not at the first league of good-excellent, but rather in the middle of a string of incredibles. But that's just what I've seen.

It's also saddening that a lot of people view memorization as a chore. It doesn't have to be. If you're getting bored or frustrated with the puzzle, let yourself get engaged (but not at a league point) and have a bit of a swordfight. It won't decrease your score in the puzzle (as long as you re-enter it directly following the fight) and you have the chance to turn a rum munching chore into a slightly profitable venture. There's also a good chance of picking up more maps, which is always nice. Or if you're going to avoid all battles anyway, you might pick up some goods for trade to suppliment your rum cost. Or you can pile on friends who want duty puzzle experience and everyone can get a stat boost.

~SadieKate
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Sadiekate
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Rastigi



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Skal wrote: 
I'm going to side with the camp that says score (above Poor) doesn't matter. With consistent incredibles, it still takes me 5-7 trips to memorize a point. Also, my missing points are not at the first league of good-excellent, but rather in the middle of a string of incredibles. But that's just what I've seen.


That's why I said that there was also a random factor involved. It is possible that I was simply lucky and happen to get good rolls on the leagues I scored higher on, but, having memorized the whole ocean, I could normally predite which points I missed with startling accuracy by noting my score each league. There were times when it took more trips to memorize something I got excellent or incredible on, but there we never times when it took less trips to memorize ones I got good on.
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Bubbablue,
SO of Bubba Gump Shrimpin' Co.
Vote Bubba for President in '08, cause Shrimpin' is Great!
Cleaver wrote: 
Anything else? Please don't say, 'Make everything FREEEEEE!!1!!'

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Skal

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The Beta notes of 2003.11.22 wrote: 
Thanks to your overly analytical mateys, the league point memorization system has changed such that you memorize a league after successfully sailing it some random number of times, the number of which I'm not going to tell you. Memorized leagues should show up immediately rather than requiring you to log off and back on, but it's not memorized until you see it being memorized.
The intent of the league memorization system was not that players would borrow maps and sail the routes the exact number of times needed to memorize them but that players that sailed a route fairly frequently would eventually memorize it and no longer need a map to sail it. Now if you don't mind, I'll go back to adding things to the game that are fun instead of wasting my time on things like this.
(Bold mine)

The Release Notes of 2004.01.26 wrote: 
Some League points should not longer be impossible to memorize.


Sorry mate, it's completely random.
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Sadiekate
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Rastigi



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Skal wrote: 
Sorry mate, it's completely random.


It doesn't say it's completely random. It says you have to sail it some random number of times, which could be accounting for a random number at any point in the calculation. Personally, I think that there is a random total 'score' that you have to get for a league point, and that the better you do the more points you get working towards that score.
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Bubbablue,
SO of Bubba Gump Shrimpin' Co.
Vote Bubba for President in '08, cause Shrimpin' is Great!
Cleaver wrote: 
Anything else? Please don't say, 'Make everything FREEEEEE!!1!!'

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54x

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Rastigi wrote: 
Skal wrote: 
Sorry mate, it's completely random.


It doesn't say it's completely random. It says you have to sail it some random number of times, which could be accounting for a random number at any point in the calculation. Personally, I think that there is a random total 'score' that you have to get for a league point, and that the better you do the more points you get working towards that score.


It was not based on score before they randomised the number of passes you had to make. It was based on whether you had hit the league point navving above fine at least 5 times. I see no reason for that to have been changed just because they added a random factor to the formula.
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Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
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Rappak

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I honestly don't believe there is a randomness factor. The randomness factor might be on how well you do, but other than that, I don't think so.
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Rappak, memmer of the oceans.

Rappak- Ex-king of Something Powerful (Cobalt)/ex-Lord of Indestructible Fury, a caged free-bird forever.
Rappak- Officer in Easily Distracted (Midnight)/Mem helper in CT/Where am I?
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54x

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Rappak wrote: 
I honestly don't believe there is a randomness factor. The randomness factor might be on how well you do, but other than that, I don't think so.


So you refuse to believe the release notes? :D

Seriously, I can tell you for sure right now that the number of passes required varies. The release notes specified that this variation was caused by a random factor. (although there appears to be a minimum and a maximum applied to it now) Before that variation, there was no code detemining how well you did for memorisation. Why would the devs want to add that in? The original purpose of memorisation was to reward people who frequently sailed a route by no longer having them require a map for it. What does that have to do with your duty puzzle score?
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Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
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Rappak

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Hm... From what I was told by others, a duty score effected it. I know a Dev/OM pointed out that at least Fine must be achieved. I don't see the release note that says its variable. I'm still a firm believer that increds shorten the time, but not by much. I think the randomness stems from how hard the route is to mem, but maybe I'm wrong. There's still alot about memming that I feel is unanswered and won't have a straight answer from the Devs.
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Rappak, memmer of the oceans.

Rappak- Ex-king of Something Powerful (Cobalt)/ex-Lord of Indestructible Fury, a caged free-bird forever.
Rappak- Officer in Easily Distracted (Midnight)/Mem helper in CT/Where am I?
[Nov 8, 2004 1:36:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
54x

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Re: How to memorise league points. Reply to this Post
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Rappak wrote: 
Hm... From what I was told by others, a duty score effected it. I know a Dev/OM pointed out that at least Fine must be achieved. I don't see the release note that says its variable. I'm still a firm believer that increds shorten the time, but not by much. I think the randomness stems from how hard the route is to mem, but maybe I'm wrong. There's still alot about memming that I feel is unanswered and won't have a straight answer from the Devs.


The release notes say that it has been randomised. I say that it's a variable, because there appears to be a maximum and a minimum number of passes, thus the amount of passes to memorise a leaguepoint is probably:

2 + X, where X= a random number < 7, or something to that effect. On all our character files it is likely that there is now a "memorisation counter" for each and every leaguepoint that we've hit at least once, telling the server how many passes remain.

The reason you won't get a straight answer from the devs is because they dislike power memming. They wanted memming to be a reward for people casually sailing the same route a lot, and I doubt they intended for people to memorise the whole ocean after just a few weeks.

Now, none of this maths precludes score from effecting memorisation- it could well be that the numbers used are effected by each pass, and an incredible is worth 1.5 instead of the 1 assigned to a fine. I don't know.

But none of my memming has actually really supported this. (I was at first undecided because other people seem to believe pretty firmly that it does, and I don't dismiss such things quite that easily. But the more I looked at it the less point I saw for memorisation to be score-based)

Many routes in Diamond and Emerald I managed to mem faster than in Ruby or Pearl or Jet, and when I memmed those archipelagos I was ultimate in navving, wheras when I was memming diamond I was either grand-master or legendary. Also, I've been missing the last point in a course much more often than the first point, and I've also been missing a middle point just as often as the first point, despite having done most of my memming at a point where I was getting terrible first-league scores.
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Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
[Nov 8, 2004 3:47:47 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mjwhitehead.com/    raasike54    secondlight5454    32987700 [Link]  Go to top 
skington

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I just did Oyster-Angelfish there and back again tonight, with the beginning leg also including Papaya-Oyster. I think I'd done the Oyster-Angelfish route once before, and I memorised 4 points in total, getting at most Excellents, and mostly Goods.

I might be wrong, and in any case that doesn't matter. What matters is that I was duty navving for a flag mate who was moving stuff.

I have a couple of crew-mates who fetichise league points. (Yaten's one of these, and now that he has the Ocean memmed, pretty much, apart from obscure training routes, he's very gracious in charting people, and all I can say is: great, there's more than one way to play the game!) I'm not one of them. I take a perverse pleasure in trying to memorise the ocean solely by pillaging or moving ships, and it's as much fun to me, I'll warrant, as taking a sloop, 40 rum, 150 shot and a bunch of maps to a remote arch and playing the Nav puzzle over and over, is to the memmers.

Let's face it: memorising the entire Ocean isn't that difficult, and unless you wish to make it more difficult my saying that you have to memorise everything that ever existed, it's fairly doable. I like that: a mid- to high-level achievement.
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Leaddolphin, Captain of Serve No Porpoise, Valiant Prince on Cobalt. I want your Plaices!
The Vampire Muroni wrote: 
the hubby teases me when he catches me reading the back of shampoo bottles or the Thesaurus.

[Nov 8, 2004 3:57:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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