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anchovygirl

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I thought it was minus 8 from GMT.
Whoops, that's what I meant. My brain switched PST and GMT around.
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Anchovia
[May 16, 2009 2:06:38 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Emoxcore2

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Anyway there could be a fix to the Shipwright exploit before the competition? And if not any possibility to push the SW competition back until the fix is made?


Ah, good catch! Yeah, the developers are aware of the issue and are looking into it. I'll check in early next week to see if a fix will be ready for before the competition. If not, the competition will go ahead at the same date and time but with a replacement puzzle.


Bilge, pls?


/e begs.
[May 16, 2009 5:52:29 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Deceptive

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Would love to see a b-nav comp of some sort, no clue how it would be tracked/scored though =/
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I honestly don't care anymore.
[May 17, 2009 5:54:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Inschato

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Would love to see a b-nav comp of some sort, no clue how it would be tracked/scored though =/

I think that's what OCL is for.
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-Undisputed Overlord of the Emerald Ocean
[May 17, 2009 5:59:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
NathanShawn

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Bilge pls...
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Something else of the flag United we Stand.

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[May 19, 2009 10:57:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Heibii

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give me dnav competition kkthx <3
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Hei on Emerald

Yusss I dnav!
[May 21, 2009 6:22:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lizzie

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I love these competitions but i never can join them cause nice timing like allways <3.


I got up at 4.45am to do the alchemistry contest - 17th on Midnight, oh yeah! :p
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Black Death, Midnight

[May 21, 2009 12:17:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Prometheus
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Just an update on Monday's competition: Whilst it looks like the issue with shipwrightery is fixed it's not going to make it into production before the competition. I've adjusted the schedule to replace shipwrightery with blacksmithing.

Date: Monday, May 25th
Time: 11:30 am
Puzzle: Blacksmithing
Familiar: Red Monkey

For those who were looking forward to a shipwrightery competition, check back in June :)

-Pro
[May 23, 2009 8:53:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com [Link]  Go to top 
henryrules10

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Just an update on Monday's competition: Whilst it looks like the issue with shipwrightery is fixed it's not going to make it into production before the competition. I've adjusted the schedule to replace shipwrightery with blacksmithing.

Date: Monday, May 25th
Time: 11:30 am
Puzzle: Blacksmithing
Familiar: Red Monkey

For those who were looking forward to a shipwrightery competition, check back in June :)

-Pro



<3333333333333 you
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Nickbush on every ocean (Jadebush on Jade -.-)

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[May 23, 2009 5:53:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Iameric

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For those who were looking forward to a shipwrightery competition, check back in June :)

-Pro


Gimme gimme
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Iameric - Meridian/Emerald - Bacon Strips
[May 24, 2009 8:17:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
henryrules10

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15 minutes? Seriously? What the hell? -.-
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Nickbush on every ocean (Jadebush on Jade -.-)

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Foraging scoring glitch: http://bit.ly/QEpApx
[May 25, 2009 10:32:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
vnork



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Familiars should never be given out for blacksmithing, unless the puzzle is fundamentally changed. It's completely computer-solvable, and a 15 minute competition gives an even bigger advantage to the solver programs.

-Vnork
[May 25, 2009 11:44:26 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
henryrules10

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The competition 'Familiar Blacksmithing' has ended.
Whitecluster won the 1st category in Blacksmithing!
Bigwood won the 2nd category in Blacksmithing!
Bowling won the 3rd category in Blacksmithing!
Musashi won the 4th category in Blacksmithing!

I take back what I said >.> xD

Edit: No alts on Cobalt, except by me, but that one is already Legendary and has the Ult trophy. Top 4 were Leg (Ult on main, but not much of a difference), Ult, Ult, Ult.
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Nickbush on every ocean (Jadebush on Jade -.-)

Native Cobaltean for life

http://www.youtube.com/user/NickBush24

Avatar by Darkfaery

Foraging scoring glitch: http://bit.ly/QEpApx
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by henryrules10 at May 25, 2009 12:06:50 PM]
[May 25, 2009 11:49:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
pyr0_pyrate



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ok can we possibly make it so that there's something that tells you whether or not the puzzle you're currently in is counting or not?

in the comp today, my first puzzle in blacksmithing, which i thought i started after the competition had started, ended up not counting, which was really irritating since it was a masterpiece that started off with a well-tempered and i had a couple other 2x alternating combos sprinkled in there.. and i'm pretty sure that would have won, and definitely would have been top 4.. so i figured the scoreboard was just lagging in putting up my dr, so i waited and waited, and with like 6 minutes left in the comp it still hadn't been put up, so i threw together two really quickly in the end but neither of those were very good..

so i guess apparently i jumped the gun, but i honestly thought the thing had started..
[May 25, 2009 11:57:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hfsktr

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This is wrong. Why is one game on a fresh alt worth more than an established player? I would make this in GD but I'm just here to complain.
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If I was mentally deficient I would have missed.
[May 25, 2009 12:03:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Alwayslast

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and able alt won the one on hunter >.>, it was master by the end but i mean still!
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[May 25, 2009 12:03:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hfsktr

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this is hunter. 2nd place went to another alt but at least they had broad so they played more than one game.
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If I was mentally deficient I would have missed.
[May 25, 2009 12:15:10 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SaviourS

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I could've sworn it was 'fixed' in a release. Hah
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Saviour, Meridian
[May 25, 2009 12:21:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
shipperthree

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At least a fair player won the sage one (a solid/ultimate).

Looking forward to next months events.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by shipperthree at May 25, 2009 1:09:54 PM]
[May 25, 2009 1:09:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Searmin

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What was the deal with the shipwrightery exploit anyway? I never heard about this anywhere...
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Searmin says, "Okay, we're gonna sail this ship right into Mount Doom"
Dracina says," One does not simply sail into Mordor"

[May 25, 2009 7:57:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
basso

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What was the deal with the shipwrightery exploit anyway? I never heard about this anywhere...


The basic idea is that SW somehow averages the value of each chain you do. So I think the exploit was that if you start the puzzle with a really nice chain (say like a vegas 3 that ends on a 5 piece for instance) you simply leave afterwards. The game averages each chain you did, which is only 1 in this case, and gives you your score. In other words, your average would be crazy high. You don't get a duty report, but your score is recorded, and labor is paid out if applicable. I think somehow experience was not counted though, which is why you saw some crazy things like neophyte/ultimate and such.

Anyways, this is my own (limited) understanding of what was going on. Someone else can elaborate or correct me as needed.
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Montage of Sage
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OK, now I'm convinced. The problem here is that you cannot understand plain English.

[May 25, 2009 9:35:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ShoyuLite

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Results from Malachite

The competition 'Familiar Blacksmithing' has ended.
Ohh won the 1st category in Blacksmithing!
Coloboc won the 2nd category in Blacksmithing!
Coltfan won the 3rd category in Blacksmithing!
Soulchild won the 4th category in Blacksmithing!

An alt won on Mala, but at least he has Narrow/Legendary. The other 3 finishers ranged from Renowned to Legendary, so no able alts here. But it is odd that other oceans are seeing ables win, since I thought that issue was resolved in a previous fix?
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Soulchild on Malachite + Viridian = Meridian

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Seriously, unicorns and dragons? How's a pirate monkey going to compete with the Wizarding World of Puzzle Pirates Mages?
[May 25, 2009 11:11:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
TBPOTN7

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hmm, i haven't been showing up for the comps so far and looks like that was a smart thing to do, apparently they're still broken. anyhow, i'll give rigging a try (finally a weekend free). I think it will be awarded to the biggest lucker more then the best rigger (i'm not implying i'm the best rigger, cuz i ain't) so i guess i make a chance :)

good luck to all ye riggers on teh hunter ocean! (and plz, don't make it last too long so we can keep ppl on one ocean.. </3 oceanhoppers)
[May 26, 2009 1:31:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
shipperthree

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What was the deal with the shipwrightery exploit anyway? I never heard about this anywhere...


The basic idea is that SW somehow averages the value of each chain you do. So I think the exploit was that if you start the puzzle with a really nice chain (say like a vegas 3 that ends on a 5 piece for instance) you simply leave afterwards. The game averages each chain you did, which is only 1 in this case, and gives you your score. In other words, your average would be crazy high. You don't get a duty report, but your score is recorded, and labor is paid out if applicable. I think somehow experience was not counted though, which is why you saw some crazy things like neophyte/ultimate and such.




That's pretty much right. It saves your score up when you dismiss, and when you complete the puzzle, it registers all of them. This is why you see some pirates jump from able to ultimate in just one puzzle.
[May 26, 2009 1:53:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LiquidatorJo



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so isnt that exploit possible on many of the puzzles then??

sage's winner isnt reputable either, there are questionable methods to his puzzling and origin. especially since he apparently knew of the exploit

i would rather see the competitions put on hold till things are fixed then rewarding people gaming the system like this, they arent the best, they just know how to exploit the best

2 of the other winners also had little to know blacksmithing expierence/standing which means lower boards are still getting a huge advantage over the top level boards, which is stupid

i should just go back to cobalt
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Noob Greeter asks "What's an Atlantis?"
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by LiquidatorJo at May 26, 2009 5:24:54 PM]
[May 26, 2009 5:22:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
basso

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so isnt that exploit possible on many of the puzzles then??



No, because distilling, alch, and blacksmithing absolutely crush your score if you leave early. Duty puzzle are completely different in nature, so they certainly wouldn't fall under this either. The key idea is that SW takes the average of each chain that you do. This means that doing 1 chain and leaving preserved a very high average, assuming that the one chain was very high scoring.

To fix this, the devs can enact a very severe punishment for leaving before 20 patterns have been placed. Actually a while back, SW could be left at any time and it simply would not count. What we have now is actually the solution to that problem, and it of course spawned the current problem. Hopefully the next fix takes care of all of it once and for all. I will miss the days of doing one quick vegas and then leaving to renew my expert labor though :)
----------------------------------------
Montage of Sage
Mads wrote: 
OK, now I'm convinced. The problem here is that you cannot understand plain English.

[May 26, 2009 8:08:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
henryrules10

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Familiars should never be given out for blacksmithing, unless the puzzle is fundamentally changed. It's completely computer-solvable, and a 15 minute competition gives an even bigger advantage to the solver programs.

-Vnork


I disagree.

At the endgame it is solvable; however, as Bigwood stated, it is NP complete at that game, meaning that no known algorithm exists to solve it in polynomial time.

The endgame for blacksmithing is basically just a graph problem solved by a simple depth-first search, with the solution for a board with N strikes to go being any path that has a length of N. The worst case time complexity for depth-first search is O(b^d), where b is the average branching factor (i.e., the number of possible pieces to hit after hitting a certain piece), and d is the depth of the solution.

For blacksmithing the average branching factor is about 4 for a full board, and towards the end that average drops dramatically the deeper you go into a path. So, for the purposes of this post, we'll take b to be equal to approximately 3, as a conservative estimate. The depth of the solution is obviously N, but even more obvious is the fact that not all paths will have length N (otherwise, what's the point of the puzzle?), so I'll average that as N/2. So, the worst case time complexity would be O(3^(N/2)), which is still exponential time.

A good endgame is one that has 30 or more strikes left, so let's take the case of N = 30. That means there will be, roughly approximating, 3^(30/2) = 3^15 = 14,348,907 paths to evaluate. While I don't doubt that computers today can solve that in a decent amount of time, this is just a conservative estimate, as it's entirely possible that the true average depth is higher than N/2. Suppose we put d = 2N/3. That would give us 3^20 = 3,486,784,401 paths to evaluate. Not so reasonable anymore the higher you set d equal to. Of course you could just make N a lot lower, but that would probably be a waste of time just to see that you've made it unsolvable ;)

The point I'm trying to make here is that, yes, it is solvable past a certain point, but either it's likely not solvable in a reasonable amount of time if you have too many pieces, or if you have very few pieces it's not solvable at all. That's why methods that use heuristics exist to find the so-called "good" paths more easily (for example, iterative solving (shamless plug FTW >.>). And besides, just getting a masterpiece is not enough; you have to also get a good amount of combos (especially alternating ones) and chains as well. I've lost count of the number of times I've screwed myself out of a masterpiece due to focusing too much on combos. For most of them a program wouldn't have done anything for me except wasted my time when I could almost always figure out by hand that it's impossible to solve (e.g. two or more dead-end pieces, too many inaccessible pieces, not enough pieces that can access the rumjug, impossible constraints, etc.).

~Nick Bush, B.S. in Computer Science >.>
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Nickbush on every ocean (Jadebush on Jade -.-)

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[May 27, 2009 1:04:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
shipperthree

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sage's winner isnt reputable either, there are questionable methods to his puzzling and origin.


Explain, please. I'm intrigued.
[May 27, 2009 7:49:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
henryrules10

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sage's winner isnt reputable either, there are questionable methods to his puzzling and origin.


Explain, please. I'm intrigued.


I'd wager he may be a witch. See if he weighs more than a duck >.>
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Nickbush on every ocean (Jadebush on Jade -.-)

Native Cobaltean for life

http://www.youtube.com/user/NickBush24

Avatar by Darkfaery

Foraging scoring glitch: http://bit.ly/QEpApx
[May 27, 2009 10:58:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Roleni

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Familiars should never be given out for blacksmithing, unless the puzzle is fundamentally changed. It's completely computer-solvable, and a 15 minute competition gives an even bigger advantage to the solver programs.

-Vnork


I disagree.

At the endgame it is solvable; however, as Bigwood stated, it is NP complete at that game, meaning that no known algorithm exists to solve it in polynomial time.

Aside from this...blacksmithing is solvable MUCH faster by an accomplished and skilled player than it is by a computer program.

When I'm playing well I get MP around 50% of the time and finish the puzzle in 5-7 minutes. I play by pseudo-algorithm and sometimes don't have to "solve" the puzzle until I have less than 20 strikes left. Humans > computers, here.


The problem with blacksmithing competitions is the able alt 1-2-3 exploit, not the puzzle itself.
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Thalatta & others

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