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McDxi



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Better Comms Thoughts Reply to this Post
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Last night as I was trying to go to sleep, I couldn't stop thinking about YPP. Specifically, I couldn't stop thinking about the communications system. The routing is obviously pretty good, but the presentation and input could use some spiffing up, in order to better use the underlying complexity. My thoughts are that an Advanced Comms Mode should be an available option, and in this mode:
    * The speak/shout/etc/etc dropdown be done away with, replaced with a current channel label
    * The transparent history overlay becomes a window for comm "channels"
    * The existing "everything" view is a permanent channel (Master?; no input on this channel)
    * Speak and Crew/Jobbing are permanent channels
    * Think/Emote/Shout maintain their behavior of being a different display type within a channel (the shouts of others in public spaces only shows up in the master channel)
    * Tells are transient channels between the two parties (auto-open, needs a termination mechanism)
    * Channels cycle with the tab key
    * Shift-Tab always jumps to the master channel[/list:u:9f56e8ff63]
    Example:
      * I log in. I now have 3 comms channels, Master, Speak, Crew (because I'm in a crew). I'm looking at the Master channel.
      * I see a crew member login, so i hit TAB twice, flipping to the Crew channel, and type "Ahoy!"
      * Someone walks up near me and shouts "BROWN BANDANA 650 POE!".
      * My crewmate says "Ahoy yerself, ye seadog"
      * My captain says "Back to the boat, the both of ye"
      * A friend tells me "I've got the poe, when can ye sell me them orange and purple buckle shoes?", creating a new tell channel labelled with his name[/list:u:9f56e8ff63]
      I now have 4 channels, Master (which contains every line spoken, including the shout), Speak (which is empty because I've not been in a chat circle), Crew (containing my line, my shipmate's, and my captain's), and a Tell window from my friend (containing his query about the shoes).

      This leaves the problems of activity notification and letting the player deal with it intelligently.

      As far as notification goes, the simplest solution is a single "new message" light/indicator. A step up from there would be separate S/C/J/T indicators (with jobbing and crew only appearing when relevant, to match the rest of the interface hiding). Beyond that, the only solution I can see without completely redesigning the UI window is to number the channels and have a small list of channels with activity (like most IRCII/EPIC scripts; [a:134] means channels 1,3,4 have activity).

      For player interface, the simplest solution is to just let them tab around and find the right window. Or tab could be overloaded when there is activity to jump to the window with the oldest new message, and maintain this behavior until there is no unseen activity. Or, if numbered channels are implemented, USER_SELECTABLE_MODKEY+n is the obvious thing to do.

      Or, if overhauling the UI a bit more is acceptable, tabs a la xchat would be ideal all around (though I still want my keyboard accellerators).

      Finally, i suppose there should be a switch for channel auto-raise-on-message (ugh).

      Thoughts/comments/flames? :)
[Aug 8, 2003 2:46:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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I don't think I understand. Sounds like you do one of those IRC thingies and making Y!PP more like that seems easier to you . .. I don't use them, so what you described does not sound more attractive in the least.

I suppose the likely response to that is "well, don't use the Advanced Options", but my response to THAT is that the options should be as flexible and intuitive and useful to the beginner and the veteran player.
[Aug 8, 2003 2:55:44 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
McDxi



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Actually, I'm just a fiend for flexible display of data and context-sensitivity.

And I never suggested touching the existing messaging display.

And it's not like I have any weight around here whatsoever.

As for being "intuitive", that's just a code word for "ubiquitous" :D
[Aug 8, 2003 3:01:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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"Intuitive" can certainly be code for "ubiquitous" . . . but keep in mind this game is not pointed at the traditional gaming audience exclusively; it's also aimed at people who turn on the computer just to play Bejeweled (well, a little deeper than that, but you know what I mean). Things ubiquitous in IRC thingies and other chatty-chatterbox programs for the kids these days and their new-fangled "Intra-Net" would be useful for the evolutionary aspect (as in "hey, that really does make things easier"), but all systems that evolve over time to enable the users to get exactly what they want eventually end up making a really steep learning curve for new users -- too many toggles and sliders and checkboxes and filters and gewgaws and whatnot.

Making all sizes fit one is at best an executive decision and at worst laziness, but making one size that truly fits all is a major accomplishment. Glad I don't have to do it.
[Aug 8, 2003 3:20:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Bocheezu



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I just wish there was an option to allow the chat to stay on the label you have it set to instead of defaulting to "vessel" everytime you get on a boat or "speak" everytime you go on shore. I have to repeat myself all the time because I'm talking to an empty boat instead of my crewmates.
[Aug 8, 2003 3:27:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
McDxi



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Fine, fine, I'll just post pirate-themed raps from now on.
 
Ye gots no Galeon
Ye gots no Pee Oh Eee
Ye gots no Wenches
And thar ye be.

-- Apologies ter Young MC

[Aug 8, 2003 3:29:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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I think one of the ideas behind defaults is that people won't accidentally bother other people as much by coming ashore still on Crew, or Shout, and defaulting to Vessel means you can talk to the other people there; a default to Crew is too big for all but the smallest crews, and a default to Speak is useless on a ship, unless it's a Grand Frigate headed to Nuptial Island.

McDxi, I wasn't suggesting you shouldn't suggest anything. Weight has nothing to do with the idea being good or not. The first thing I said was "I don't think I understand" . . . and basically, that was my problem with your idea, not with you posting. Put in a simpler format -- and with not so much emphasis on keyboardy things, it is a visual game, not Francis Bacon Teaches Typing -- I might be able to see how it is an improvement.

Also, as a Charter Member of the Veteran Pirates Club, I argue from the game as it is, preferring small changes to radical overhauls.
[Aug 8, 2003 3:45:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
nifboy



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I think what he's saying is basically to split the one message screen into multiple tabs. I don't think YPP is chat-heavy enough to need such a distinction: The only minor problem I see is someone asking something via the Crew chan, while someone uses Vessel to answer even though the asker isn't on the boat; usually said answerer switches to crew and re-answers, which I don't think is that big of a deal.

I've missed messages in mIRC because I wasn't paying attention to the little tabs lighting up, though. I think the various text highlights for things like /tells are good enough if not better. Plus, if I'm puzzling, I have to hit my mouse to see new messages in different tabs.

In short, I like all my messages in one basket.
[Aug 8, 2003 4:05:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
McDxi



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nifboy wrote: 
I don't think YPP is chat-heavy enough to need such a distinction

Actually, this is something else I wish would begin to change, though there's nothing anyone can do about it.

It's damned near impossible to get anyone to say anything beyond "swordfight? good game. how u get cloths?". I mean, I figure anyone who wants to play a game about being a supercute Lego-looking pirate who plays puzzles must have something in their personality makeup to make them worth chatting with, but almost no one seems interested in social interaction at all. And if you *do* find someone who actually wants to talk about the game or whatever, it won't be 30s before some random person comes by and challenges you to Yet Another Swordfight.

Everyone seems to be very much in Monty Haul mode. It makes me a sad pirate :-/
[Aug 8, 2003 4:19:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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I must disagree on the Note enough Chat:

I spend about 1/2 my time in the game talking to my mates. Alot from the crew and many more from outside me crew.

The only thing I can see that is needed it a Flag Chat chan.
I have not been in the Update much yet so I am hoping for one. but I don't remember seeing one yet.
[Aug 8, 2003 4:35:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post   [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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I think I spend more time chatting than I do anything else, punctuated by the occasional swordfighting challege from my circle or outside. Money is no longer a big deal for me, so I concentrate on other things that make me happy.

Crew chat is sometimes too big as it is, I'm not sure flag chat is desirable. I would rather see royalty being given broadcast capability. If somebody needs to tell the entire flag, well, they can contact their representatives in flag government.

I would like a non-flag friends list. I've been tring to meet Rifkind in-game for a couple days now, but since I can't tell when she's on, it makes it a lot harder to know when she's there.
[Aug 8, 2003 4:45:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Cleaver
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Flag chat and Friends Reply to this Post
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Flag broadcast from titled/royalty to all members, and perhaps a Titled chat channel is on the list. So is a Mateys list. It'll be glorious.
[Aug 8, 2003 5:22:25 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
Squidbeard

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My two poe's worth Reply to this Post
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McDxi wrote: 
It's damned near impossible to get anyone to say anything beyond "swordfight? good game. how u get cloths?". I mean, I figure anyone who wants to play a game about being a supercute Lego-looking pirate who plays puzzles must have something in their personality makeup to make them worth chatting with, but almost no one seems interested in social interaction at all.


I know this risks the appearance of Piling On The New Guy, but I wanted to put my 2 poe in anyway.

You've probably gotten the impression from the replies before mine that your lack of chat partners is not a universal thing. I was fortunate enough to come into the game at the end of the alpha test, when newcomers were still a relative trickle, and there was time to assimilate us. I happened to meet, purely by chance, a lot of good people from the various Rudder Revolution crews, who are a very talkative lot. I wound up staying.

You have the mixed blessing of coming in during the Deluge. There's a lot of growing pains going on while all the new mass shakes itself out and settles down. If there's any advice I can give you, it's to take a deep breath, put your frustration behind you, and seek out some established crews to spend some quality time with. If you're bright and articulate (and you seem to be both), you'll be surprised at how quickly you become one of the gang.

I happen to be part of an established crew that's always looking for new recruits. Stop by Cnossos sometime and chat, or look one of us up in-game. We just started a new flag, as well, which means that you'd get our unique combination of the benefits of a stable crew coupled with limitless opportunities for expansion. Other crews will be happy to tout their virtues to you, too. As well they should; there are a lot of really good crews, with really good people, around here.

Oh, one other piece of advice: don't hang around the docks/beaches. They're a stew of fencing-happy shouters.

homullus wrote: 
Crew chat is sometimes too big as it is, I'm not sure flag chat is desirable. I would rather see royalty being given broadcast capability.


What I'd really like to see at the flag level, in addition to the royalty-broadcast idea, is a Captains-only channel. I think it could add a lot to the cohesiveness of the various crews under a flag, which will become increasingly important as the political system matures.

Wow! Who knew 2 poe could buy so much?

--Sq

Edit: Leave it to Cleaver to address my issues before I have a chance to finish typing them...
----------------------------------------
Squid
High Priest, Cult of the Red Mantis
[Aug 8, 2003 5:24:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://looterati.goldfish.org [Link]  Go to top 
McDxi



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Re: Better Comms Thoughts Reply to this Post
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just for the record, i not be bitter, "oh woe is me", and complainin'. I be likin' the game just fine, and am havin' a grand time with me mates (which is why i think about it so much, which is how this all got started). I jes' be writin' down me thoughts in general, as relatin' to the topic.

Thanks, and no offense taken (though I should hope the young mc parody be makin' that clear).
[Aug 8, 2003 6:16:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gotagota

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I recieve my fair share of out-of-context mistells... Reply to this Post
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I currently like how easy it is to be in the wrong mode for chat.

Tells are funny.
----------------------------------------
Fronsac, human.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
.
-Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

[Aug 8, 2003 6:33:57 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
crowsdiamond

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*shakin her head and rollin her eyes* Frons, darlin, ye be too much fer words mate, jist too much.

And I have to agree with the Squidman, I spend a LOT of time talkin about things with folks, and jist plain ol socializin'. Jist ask any one of me mateys about me little seamonster, eh? lol He plays havoc on me playin abilities when he be up. Look me up!! We can do the mathemagicks of chemical formulas, too, eh Dylan? ;)

I would like a way to differentiate between messages from MY crew, and a crew I am jobbing with... I get so confused... specially if who I be jobbin with are the Lubbers, with their crew AND mine constantly havin somethin ta say... talk about DELUGE!!! ACK!! Could we color code /jcrew stuff? I don't know about progamming, or whatnot, but I like the /tell color thing, it shows up and lets me know it isn't general chatter, but aimed at me... and if I am jobbing... well, that is going to notify me that I might oughta pay attention to it a bit more, too... just to make sure I be doin what I am supposed ta be doin.

See ye out there!
----------------------------------------
~Faile
Once Captain of the Mighty PPA
Once Captain of the Falcon's Fury
Now Unretired and ready to KILL!!

Just point me to what you want dead, an' I'll kill it. Or die trying!
[Aug 8, 2003 7:21:37 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Crowsdiamond [Link]  Go to top 
avalon2



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Is dieng to be able to shut off channels
something like
/crew_off
/crew_on
/notice_off (for those annoying forages, ship engages member log ins etc)


actually id like to set crewnotice and vessel notice but hey i hate (!!!!) looking at my chat window and realizing its moved up so much that it isnt even worth scrolling and yet most of it isnt even chat or i really dotn care.

Honestly teh best chat i ever saw was in the last game a played where you could define diferent chats to diferent windows and have like 6 of tehm but transparent so ALL you saw was words and not the window....
Now obviously this isnt easy to do here but...

I like the chat tab idea.... Heh of course i want my chat movable too so that its on teh side of the screen or the top but i got spoiled :P would be happy with being able to jsut off most alerts. SO i guesssss i mean a chat filter


Edit: old post pull up..... thats what i get for clicking a link and responding with out checking hte date first...
[Sep 2, 2004 12:41:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
lucretzia

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Phew. Where to link to? Lots of drawn-out discussions about these sorts of changes to chat. I'll just summarize instead.

avalon2 wrote: 
something like
/crew_off
/crew_on
/notice_off (for those annoying forages, ship engages member log ins etc)


Not going to happen. Someone could easily shut off all their channels and become unreachable to everything, which is a bad thing in a social game like this one. If forages scroll too quickly, make the chat fullscreen. You're in port and can take the time to scroll. If logons annoy you, find a smaller crew.

avalon2 wrote: 
actually id like to set crewnotice and vessel notice but hey i hate (!!!!) looking at my chat window and realizing its moved up so much that it isnt even worth scrolling and yet most of it isnt even chat or i really dotn care.


If you don't care, problem solved.

avalon2 wrote: 
Honestly teh best chat i ever saw was in the last game a played where you could define diferent chats to diferent windows and have like 6 of tehm but transparent so ALL you saw was words and not the window....


If you were using it like that, it was a chat client. Not a game. This is a game.

avalon2 wrote: 
thats what i get for clicking a link and responding with out checking hte date first...


Pulling up old threads doesn't seem like a bad thing, if you have something new and enlighting to add to the subject that makes it worth reopening debate. In these last two threads, you have not done so.

And please, please, please take the extra half-second to get 'the' spelled properly. You've typed it more than any other word in the language. Make it count!
[Sep 2, 2004 1:19:34 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    high+alchemitrix [Link]  Go to top 
stripey2004

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OK I'm struggling to understand this theory, even though you have clearly thought about it a lot. the IRC influence is clear, but i would personally like to avoid an over relianace on typed commands. Greeny hell.
----------------------------------------
Featherfin
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YPPedia administrator | Island Designer
"What's the Welsh for sea cucumber?" - Orsino
[Sep 3, 2004 6:28:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    FeatherfinYIPP [Link]  Go to top 
xx_debz_xx



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how about a senior officers chat?

Just to add to the currently growing list, would be good in discussing with senior officers who would make a good SO, who's messing up as an officer etc without all the officers having to see it.
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Captain of The Pillaging Raiders
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[Nov 17, 2004 5:27:22 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Rastigi



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lucretzia wrote: 
Phew. Where to link to? Lots of drawn-out discussions about these sorts of changes to chat. I'll just summarize instead.

avalon2 wrote: 
something like
/crew_off
/crew_on
/notice_off (for those annoying forages, ship engages member log ins etc)


Not going to happen. Someone could easily shut off all their channels and become unreachable to everything, which is a bad thing in a social game like this one. If forages scroll too quickly, make the chat fullscreen. You're in port and can take the time to scroll. If logons annoy you, find a smaller crew.


Quiet mode. Oh how I would love to have a quiet mode. I wouldn't use it very often, but there are those oh-so-rare occasions when I want to do something (say a swordfighting tourney, for example) with my main pirate, but I don't want to be available for outside comment. If a pirate in your crew is always in quiet mode (you would get a notification when you try to send them a tell), then maybe they're not crew oriented. But just because this is a social game (and definitely more so for some than others) doesn't mean that there aren't times when you'd find it infinitely better to be anti-social.
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Bubbablue,
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Vote Bubba for President in '08, cause Shrimpin' is Great!
Cleaver wrote: 
Anything else? Please don't say, 'Make everything FREEEEEE!!1!!'

[Nov 17, 2004 5:34:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ramirojr



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NOTE: This is mainly in response to the discussion that has developed here, not the original post of this thread.
Cleaver wrote: 
Flag broadcast from titled/royalty to all members, and perhaps a Titled chat channel is on the list. So is a Mateys list. It'll be glorious.

Hmm, I guess that Titled chat can be useful, but I'm not quite sure how I feel about a "Mateys list" chat (I assume that means Hearties). It could get really confusing pretty quickly, especially if people try to respond by talking to their hearty lists, and then a bunch of people see the follow-ups to things they didn't intially see. But, maybe I've got the general idea wrong, so perhaps some clarification would be useful.

And yeah, guys, discussions of muting specific chat channels, as well as implementing SO chat have been had before. There are tons of things about muting chat channels, so I'm not going to do a search for that, but lemme see if I can find the SO thing.

Actually, this thread here can give you lots of background on the discussion of many different chat channels.
----------------------------------------
My backpacking buddy wrote: 
Remember that time we went through the Hall o'Precedents, then refused t'do it again? That Summer were the best.

[Nov 17, 2004 5:35:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Rastigi



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ramirojr wrote: 
Hmm, I guess that Titled chat can be useful, but I'm not quite sure how I feel about a "Mateys list" chat (I assume that means Hearties).


I think this ended up being /fbroadcast, /fofficer, and the Hearties list. The word chat was not included on the end of Mateys list, and I'd like to think the fact that having a Hearties channel would be silly has been discussed to death as well as quiet mode. Then again, I just woke up quiet mode, so why not wake the rest up too?
Hurray for thread necromancy!
----------------------------------------
Bubbablue,
SO of Bubba Gump Shrimpin' Co.
Vote Bubba for President in '08, cause Shrimpin' is Great!
Cleaver wrote: 
Anything else? Please don't say, 'Make everything FREEEEEE!!1!!'

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stefsorceror

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I reaaaally don't liek this idea. It's alot like tibia, which I played for a year, but I have to say this is much easier. I wouldn't like it.
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Disclaimer: None of my posts are ment to be offensive. Any tarting about the offensiveness of my posts will be ingored.
[Nov 17, 2004 11:19:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ramirojr



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Rastigi wrote: 
Hurray for thread necromancy!

Oh wow, I didn't even realize that this was a bumped thread.

So, umm, completely disregard the entirety of my previous post in this thread, ok? Thanks.
----------------------------------------
My backpacking buddy wrote: 
Remember that time we went through the Hall o'Precedents, then refused t'do it again? That Summer were the best.

[Nov 18, 2004 1:41:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Rastigi



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avalon2 wrote: 
Edit: old post pull up..... thats what i get for clicking a link and responding with out checking hte date first...


Things like this should be in big bright letters at the beginning of posts, cause people skimming don't normally read the footnotes. People skimming do normally read big bright letters. :)
----------------------------------------
Bubbablue,
SO of Bubba Gump Shrimpin' Co.
Vote Bubba for President in '08, cause Shrimpin' is Great!
Cleaver wrote: 
Anything else? Please don't say, 'Make everything FREEEEEE!!1!!'

[Nov 18, 2004 1:47:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
atteSmythe

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ramirojr wrote: 
Oh wow, I didn't even realize that this was a bumped thread.

Which is why I ask, "Please, please, pretty please note when you're bumping a very old thread! It only takes a sentence before you add your comment!"

atteSmythe,
much happier to have a bumped thread than a new one, though

----------------------------------------
 
Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]

[Nov 18, 2004 1:47:34 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://attesmythe.com [Link]  Go to top 
ramirojr



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I like the idea of big bright letters to signify a bump. I also agree with atteSmythe: bumped threads are better than new ones, when possible. Normally I'm good with paying attention to the dates of threads; looks like I need to do a better job, though.
----------------------------------------
My backpacking buddy wrote: 
Remember that time we went through the Hall o'Precedents, then refused t'do it again? That Summer were the best.

[Nov 18, 2004 1:52:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Curule

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Cleaver wrote: 
Flag broadcast from titled/royalty to all members, and perhaps a Titled chat channel is on the list. So is a Mateys list. It'll be glorious.


Are these things still on the list? If so, can they be expedited given how many larger flags there are and the number of titled members that actually function as active members of a flag's hierarchy?
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Retired Guv'nah of Turtle.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Curule at Nov 19, 2005 10:10:34 PM]
[Nov 19, 2005 10:08:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Faulkston

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Flag broadcast from royalty is in. Titled chat channel is not. Mateys list is in as Hearties list.

Faulkston,
noting the 1 year and 1 day bump
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[Nov 19, 2005 10:12:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/search [Link]  Go to top 
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