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Squashbuckle

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Since when is being the monarch of a big fame flag "winning"? I've never been close to that position, yet most would consider me rather "successful". Anyways, the good monarchs I know bend over backwards to help people in their flag. I would rather hear from someone like that, as opposed to an average player who only looks out for themselves. Just like I would rather hear from somoene who leads Atlantis trips, rather than a jobber who wants a shiny prize for lazing. Is the jobber's point of view important, and do I want them to have fun? Yes and yes, but it is more beneficial to talk to someone who provides that fun for large numbers of players at once.


You're making the awfully rash assumption that no one would have fun if these select few people weren't around to provide it. There are more people who want to navigate in Atlantis, admiral blockades, and govern islands than there are spots available. Chances are plenty who want to are capable, but they can't get jobbers or have their flag trust them to admiral because no one will pick them over SeasonedRichGuy.

Breaking into a field that can be saturated by just a dozen people is exceptionally difficult, and the hard-core high-end players won't avocate for any changes to make it easier for other people to share that sort of fun. Who wants Atlantis to work for WBs? Not the guy who runs 5 frigs a week getting 30% of 70 people's stuff. The monarchs represent their interests (staying on top), which are directly counter to those of most players in this game.
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Polly
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[May 12, 2009 2:13:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Talisker

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Since when is being the monarch of a big fame flag "winning"? I've never been close to that position, yet most would consider me rather "successful". Anyways, the good monarchs I know bend over backwards to help people in their flag. I would rather hear from someone like that, as opposed to an average player who only looks out for themselves. Just like I would rather hear from somoene who leads Atlantis trips, rather than a jobber who wants a shiny prize for lazing. Is the jobber's point of view important, and do I want them to have fun? Yes and yes, but it is more beneficial to talk to someone who provides that fun for large numbers of players at once.


You're making the awfully rash assumption that no one would have fun if these select few people weren't around to provide it. There are more people who want to navigate in Atlantis, admiral blockades, and govern islands than there are spots available. Chances are plenty who want to are capable, but they can't get jobbers or have their flag trust them to admiral because no one will pick them over SeasonedRichGuy.

If there are that many people wanting to play that game, shouldn't we make sure it plays well?

 
Breaking into a field that can be saturated by just a dozen people is exceptionally difficult, and the hard-core high-end players won't avocate for any changes to make it easier for other people to share that sort of fun.

This is a flat out lie. Or gross misrepresentation. Or clearly contrafactual. Pick as you'd like.

 
Who wants Atlantis to work for WBs? Not the guy who runs 5 frigs a week getting 30% of 70 people's stuff. The monarchs represent their interests (staying on top), which are directly counter to those of most players in this game.

This is likewise ridiculous. And Silly. And untrue. Pick as you'd like.

Unlike what Polly would have us believe, the vast majority of monarchs are not out to get you. They don't want to cement their role in perpetuity. As already stated, and ignored by Polly, there was significant effort put into ideas to make things easier for the little guy, in all a number of ways.
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Leif
The Forums
Gunnermooch wrote: 
I can't respond because I do not understand what the hell you are talking about. Sorry.

Av by Ecastasy
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Talisker at May 12, 2009 2:20:36 PM]
[May 12, 2009 2:17:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Fiddler

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From the second Viridian conference:

Hypnos wrote: 
Now, if you still weren't invited and you're miffed, all is not lost! I am also accepting PMs from people that want to come. However, I am not interested in reading really long essay upon essay about how the selection process is unfair and that I'm so out of touch with the community and the dock tarts and the people that really know the game but that have no unbiased way to show their qualifications whatsoever.

For that reason if you wish to attend, PM me with your pirate name, ocean, and e-mail address, and the reason(s) why you should be included in haiku format. All PMs that do not meet this criteria will be discarded. Thanks!


Yes, it excludes people the people without the ability to form 17 coherent syllables but I submit that that is a fair and decent cut-off.
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Whitewyvern wrote: 
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[May 12, 2009 2:19:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Avatar by Stimmhorn [Link]  Go to top 
sweetnessc

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Dear lord. Who doesn't want to be able to take any brigs into Atlantis successfully? And in my experience, those unable to 'break in' are unable to do it because of their own problems with interpersonal relations, not because The Man is keepin' em down.

Once again, your assumptions are way off base.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. ~ Jack Layton

Sublime is shame.
[May 12, 2009 2:21:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
StuManchu

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Polly wrote: 
Words


I'm fairly certain your last post was the dumbest thing I've read all day. Do you ascribe to astrology and bizarre conspiracy theories about government mind control too?

Polly. Just stop. Even Orsino and I are agreeing in this thread. Dylan needs to come post to complete the No Way! Trifecta. Take your bilious, Y'all-Out-To-Get-Me tinfoil hattery someplace else and let's talk about community communication with the OMs.

Edit: although, I know you're kind of smart, so I would be seriously embarrassed if you're just trolling the hell out of us. In which case, stop anyway! Damn!
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Was once Stuyvesant

Redistribute your wealth, or we'll redistribute your blood.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by StuManchu at May 12, 2009 2:38:53 PM]
[May 12, 2009 2:35:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
basso

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As a side note, just because someone is currently on top, it doesn't mean they will deter others from challenging them. This game has a great spirit of teaching and cooperation among elite puzzlers. Why else would there be countless guides and videos and tutorials with the intent of helping other people to get better? Especially in a game that is based on relative performance. Why would I personally help people set up competing stalls on the same island as my empire? Why would a winner of multiple colored familiars in competitions offer to teach me how she does it? The list goes on and on, of people on "top" actively helping others along the same path. Frankly, if you constantly have to protect your own interests, they aren't very secure.

Anyways, I am not saying that only certain people can provide the "mass fun" we are talking about. All I meant is that those who currently do run large and active flags, or successful large ship voyages, have a better insight into things, compared to a random "average" jobber. I am not any of these things by the way, and would have no problem with not being included. I don't impact the same number of players as someone who runs daily atlantis trips. It is quite possible to be successful at something, and yet also think of the good of the game over your own interests. If someone is selfishly motivated, I'd guess it would be rather obvious to the OM in charge.
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Montage of Sage
Mads wrote: 
OK, now I'm convinced. The problem here is that you cannot understand plain English.

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slimbutt

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Polly has proven her point.

The forum tarts have spoken. Any conference should concentrate on how to help the small minority of players that currently run SMH's.
Only those already experienced can run a successful shop.
Newer players do not desire to blocade nav.
New flags do not want to blockade.
Lets do what we can to keep these activites within the circles already practicing them so they will not be forever lost to the game.

This is where such a conference and the forum tarts are out of touch.

Shops are easy to run; just prohibitivly high to buy now.
New players do like to nav. They job for cades for the poe but they enjoy naving more.
Yes the superstar caders have all worked together a lot. This does not mean there are not lots of good navs who have no chance of joining their ranks. I know of one who is so good in events he would put many superstars to shame. Since he is not in the 'right circle' nor rich no one will ever see him in action in a major cade.
Now that the cost of cading an outpost (on Hunter) could be as high as 10 million only the old established rich players who already own tons of high end shops could even think about cading. Unless they have good dedicated poker players. Poker; the true measure of an awsome pirate.

The recent changes in the game; higher pillage payouts and expeditions were aimed at new low-end players. We need more changes like this.

Other changes; monkeyships and forage puzzle.
These changes hurt the tops monarchs of the time.
When these changes were made most of the powerful flags had large scale foraging operations. These operations were successful through use of alt armies, automated clickers and double floating.
Question this? How was it I could not port at any player owned island larger than an outpost for PvPing double floaters. No other reason.

Where did the dev's get these good ideas? Not from the top monarchs.
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Want to make an easy 20K?
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Post a screenshot of the start of the SF in any Hunter Parley thread.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by slimbutt at May 12, 2009 5:59:10 PM]
[May 12, 2009 5:56:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Parrrdner

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When these changes were made most of the powerful flags had large scale foraging operations. These operations were successful through use of alt armies, automated clickers and double floating.

You should move to a subscription ocean. It's better.
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[May 12, 2009 6:01:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Talisker

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The recent changes in the game; higher pillage payouts


In 2006, the monarch conferences for Sage, Midnight, and Cobalt all raised the issue of low pillaging payouts, especially for greenies.

 
Other changes; monkeyships and forage puzzle.
These changes hurt the tops monarchs of the time.
When these changes were made most of the powerful flags had large scale foraging operations. These operations were successful through use of alt armies, automated clickers and double floating.

The 2007 Sage monarch conference also raised these issues, specifically with alt armies. The notes on the wiki are incomplete, so I can't speak to ones I didn't attend.

 
Where did the dev's get these good ideas? Not from the top monarchs.


As usual, you're wrong. Egregiously so.
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Leif
The Forums
Gunnermooch wrote: 
I can't respond because I do not understand what the hell you are talking about. Sorry.

Av by Ecastasy
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Talisker at May 12, 2009 6:12:59 PM]
[May 12, 2009 6:12:29 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tarajayne

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Actually, looking back on things there wasn't really a whiney group of people that got left out. There was just a discussion about the method of selecting people. I only really see one whiney person now and that is in this thread.
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Bridalgirl

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[May 13, 2009 5:06:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
marundel

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Polly, I gotta agree that you're way off base. Our previous monarch - Jakaubrey - could not have been more dedicated to the development of new players. His personal faith in an inexperienced officer with only a couple months in game led to him allowing that officer to nav the sole WB allowed in the 3rd round of an island giveaway event. I'm happy to say that inexperienced officer went on to become a SO and monarch in his own right, largely as a result of the faith put in him by a then-top 10 monarch interested in something besides furthering his own in-game career.

As a monarch myself, I am constantly reminding officers in all the crews in our flag that recruiting, training, and supporting newer players is essential to the continued health of our flag. Several players in our flag who were encouraged as greenies have now become strong players with a few regular forum posters as well.

I am not what you would call "high end", "elite", or "a success" if the measurement of those is an ultimate or three, multiple SMH trips, or winning at the 200K poker table. My only ultimate trophy is in poker, and I won it on my first subscribed day on the 20-200 table - I dropped to Leg 20 minutes later and am currently Distinguished in poker. I have no current stat above GM, I don't know how to insta in SF, and the one Atlantis trip I ran where I didn't sink, we survived to enjoy about a 10K loss after restock.

I've never funded a blockade with poker winnings.

Slimbutt - send that event blockade navver over to me - I'd love to have him if he's as good as you say. I can name five other experienced admirals on Cobalt who would also be happy to give him a shot.

I would dearly love to represent my flag at a Conference of the Monarchs, and would hope that I would do the job even half as well and as fairly as Jakaubrey did 2 years ago. However, since my flag is currently #28 in fame, I doubt I would make the cut. I would not be offended... I would simply find a top 10 monarch who I'm on good terms with and ask if he/she would carry my flag's concerns into the conference as well as their own. I can't name a single active (defined as online and actively puzzling more than twice a week) member of my flag that would take that as being shunned.
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Pizzahutpete on the Cerulean Ocean
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SO, Boochin' Drunks

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[May 13, 2009 5:18:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.thehomebrewstore.com    meadbrewer [Link]  Go to top 
treepirate88

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If I'm stating something here that's already been stated because I looked over something, bludgeon me to death.

But a point that I think people have missed:
In the years since the conference, OOO has worked mainly worked on voyaging variety. Have they not?
I would also like to assume that this type of coding takes a long time and there are tons of nooks and crannies to fix/tweak and squish bugs along the way.

If I'm still right in assuming that this has been their main goal over the past couple of years, they are still not done.

I think they will appeal to us more directly when they're out of fresh ideas. They've focused on an area and I'm happy they have.

Let's not all get too miffed until they start sitting on their laurels k?
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[May 13, 2009 9:28:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BehindCurtai

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Maybe we need something like the EVE elected community representatives?
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"We're trying to find the error bars on that number"

Dylan wrote: 
Why buy sham poo when real poo is so readily available

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ssandv



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Maybe we need something like the EVE elected community representatives?
I'd be 100% in favor of this. More, if it were mathematically possible to give 110%.
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Darksand (back again!)
Obsidian: Peace and Quiet-Chaos
Midnight (rarely): Forbidden Dreams-Dies Irae
Leif wrote: 
I understand you'll ignore this as it doesn't support your paranoia.

[May 16, 2009 11:34:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
slimbutt

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Maybe we need something like the EVE elected community representatives?

Who would vote?
All the credit card captains of crews of 5 people?
Or everyone on the ocean.

/em registers 120 old forage alts to vote.
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Want to make an easy 20K?
Pwn /fw Blood in the Water in PVP.
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[May 17, 2009 12:29:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
basso

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/em registers 120 old forage alts to vote.

Slim makes a really, really good point here.

 
I'd be 100% in favor of this. More, if it were mathematically possible to give 110%.


It always bothered me when coaches talked about giving 110%. I always thought you were lucky to get anywhere above 50% really.
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Montage of Sage
Mads wrote: 
OK, now I'm convinced. The problem here is that you cannot understand plain English.

[May 17, 2009 7:55:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Maybe we need something like the EVE elected community representatives?


*bump*

Apparently, EVE has upgraded their elected community representatives to the status of being a department of the company. Slashdot had a good discussion on this. I'm not sure it would change anyone's positions, I know it didn't change mine, but I found it interesting none the less.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
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Austerlitzer

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Can I join this I am top 10 Monarchies iN Midnight. :S
[May 22, 2010 5:45:58 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
sweetnessc

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If you are able to go back in time, then yes!
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. ~ Jack Layton

Sublime is shame.
[May 22, 2010 6:18:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Dewei

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Maybe we need something like the EVE elected community representatives?


*bump*

Apparently, EVE has upgraded their elected community representatives to the status of being a department of the company. Slashdot had a good discussion on this. I'm not sure it would change anyone's positions, I know it didn't change mine, but I found it interesting none the less.



Oi... I didn't think that this topic would come back from the dead.

I like the idea of an Elected Community Representatives; however, the concern arises. Who will truly represent the ocean? While the top ten monarchies is a good idea, there are others who feel it isn't appropriate. So does that mean sub committees within the elected cabinet?

A committee devoted to the idea of Merchanting (shoppes, commodities, merchant ships, foraging, etc), a committee devoted to the idea of Adventures (Imprerial Outposts, Treasure hunting, Atlantis, Cursed Isle, etc) then a committee devoted to the idea of Pillaging? (Routes, BKs, might rings, ship types/ shots, etc)

Each committee contains a chairperson and co chairperson who meets together with each chairperson of each committee who in turn meet with the other committees from each ocean to have one big meeting with the OM. With this idea it should eliminate the bias or any such discrimination between credit users and dub users. The only problem that comes with this is the time and the drive members are willing to put into this.
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Only in their dreams can men be truly free.
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catscanner

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Thought this would be a relevant Bump.

After the merge, I would highly suggest lead OMs/Developers resurrect the Conference of Monarchs, in order to *insert fix the game rant* and avoid us from in the future needing to merge Emerald and Meridian.

Opinions?
[Jan 10, 2012 5:43:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sverdrup

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Catscammer wrote: 
Thought this would be a relevant Bump.

After the merge, I would highly suggest lead OMs/Developers resurrect the Conference of Monarchs, in order to *insert fix the game rant* and avoid us from in the future needing to merge Emerald and Meridian.

Opinions?

Waste of OM/Devs time that is better spent to fix bugs already reported via /bug and via extensive game design discussions.

Waste of Monarch time that is better spent recruiting, training, pillaging, and blockading.
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Sverdrup, CPTN of Schroedinger's Cat, Heisenberg's Uncertainty, Meridian
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Stephensam

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Waste of OM/Devs time that is better spent to fix bugs already reported via /bug and via extensive game design discussions.

Waste of Monarch time that is better spent recruiting, training, pillaging, and blockading.

This.
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catscanner

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Waste of OM/Devs time that is better spent to fix bugs already reported via /bug and via extensive game design discussions.

Waste of Monarch time that is better spent recruiting, training, pillaging, and blockading.

This.


Well, in that case if they don't listen to peoples opinion our monthly updates will only be cosmetics like they have been recently (Aside from merge and opener).

Would you rather waste an hour of your time to get a flotilla fix, or not do anything and get a newlimitededitionsonichedgehogsloop*?
[Jan 10, 2012 3:45:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tilinka

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Additionally, this would be a definite fix to the whole "OOO doesn't communicate with us at all ever about anything, wah!" thing.
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Tilinka, Emerald
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[Jan 10, 2012 4:38:45 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.perilouspuppets.com    Tilinka    3569427 [Link]  Go to top 
Randomite

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Waste of OM/Devs time that is better spent to fix bugs already reported via /bug and via extensive game design discussions.

Waste of Monarch time that is better spent recruiting, training, pillaging, and blockading.

This.


Well, in that case if they don't listen to peoples opinion our monthly updates will only be cosmetics like they have been recently (Aside from merge and opener).

Would you rather waste an hour of your time to get a flotilla fix, or not do anything and get a newlimitededitionsonichedgehogsloop*?


They do listen to peoples opinion, through bug reports, petitions + game design. If it works for merging oceans together and fixing the bugs they bring, surely a meeting of a few monarchs isn't going to add anything to that.

I honestly just think the devs have been busy with the ocean merge, hence the lack of severe bugfixes recently. That's something only time will show, but I'm sure some of the bugs that exist now won't exist in a years time and we'll have almost forgotten they existed.
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Disengaged.

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Hillsmen

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They do listen to peoples opinion, through bug reports, petitions + game design.


Lol
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Captainrich
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I did at least one of these years ago. 3 of us did all the talking (Willelmus and I think Cybr, and me), and we came out of it with a list of notes. You can find it starting with my post here. If you search the forums for the word conference with Hypnos as the poster, you'll find all the other oceans' threads as well.

Some of what Cobalt asked for was definitely implemented eventually, like Brigand King blockades, showing how many of each station is taken on a ship and better greenie intro stuff. Most stuff was not.

I think the problem with the Monarchs conference is that it's just us giving them yet another wishlist. What would be useful, I think, is monarchs meeting about how THEY can improve the game, instead of what they think the devs can do.
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Aethera of Cobalt Cerulean
Princess of Maniacal Menagerie
Blockade staff on any ocean
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Lotsofgoats

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Re: Conference of the Monarch (Thoughts) Reply to this Post
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Some of what Cobalt asked for was definitely implemented eventually, like Brigand King blockades...

Those WOULD be from Coblat.

Puke.
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[Jan 10, 2012 8:48:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hazarath

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What would be useful, I think, is monarchs meeting about how THEY can improve the game, instead of what they think the devs can do.

This.
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Morbuzaan

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