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Hermes
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Miscellaneous Pillaging Suggestions Reply to this Post
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This thread is for miscellaneous pillaging suggestions, as mentioned in the blog post here. As with the other two threads, what we're most interested in is your feelings on the status quo and whether you can concisely pin down any issues with pillaging worth addressing that are not covered by the other two threads.

As always, however, note that while we really appreciate your feedback in this area, we cannot promise the adoption of any particular suggestion in this thread, and this is not intended to be a 'vote' on what we implement next. The goal here is for us to get good comments collectively from you folks so we can better tackle any changes that we feel need to be made, not to have a hundred different people drown each other out with essays on how they feel pillaging should work. Collaborative, Constructive and Concise Feedback wins the day!

All that said, we look forward to your comments!
[Jan 30, 2009 5:38:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com [Link]  Go to top 
legoking1235

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I think that when I am memming it is a pain to hop off the station and re-chart the ship. Can we have a button that when clicked re-charts the last course or something like that?
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[Jan 30, 2009 6:20:22 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Inannamute

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The toughest thing about pillaging right now is simply finding jobbers.. Even in a slow time, without an atlantis, or CI, or flotilla run on the board, it's hard to fill a sloop even if you accept every jobber.. So many newer players don't learn to pillage anymore.. their mindset is that atlantis and flotillas pay more - which they do, for less work (which is arguably true, given that both environments need a lot more pirates, which generally means that the better players are carrying weaker pirates)..

I'd love to see a stat requirement before being allowed to hit up atlantis or CI, though I know that's unlikely.. Something like, if you apply, getting a message that you need to work on x,y,z skills before you're ready to play with the big dogs.. This would (a) reduce jobber spam for the CO's of tough trips and (b) mean that people actually work on being able to play the puzzles in environments available to them *first*.. While puzzle pirates isn't designed to be a grind game, it is designed to be a skill game, and part of that, to me, is that pirates should be required to acquire skill before unlocking the more advanced areas of the game. Pillaging is fun when you first start, if that's all you're presented with.. Learning the puzzles is fun, but when you're sublime, pillaging is past it's prime for most players..

Other similarly minded options would be, the much requested and still denied captaincy requirements - I still maintain that good crews = good pillages and decent fun for all levels of play = more people staying around and paying OOO money.. If you increase *skill* requirements for starting a new crew, this would lead to more people in larger crews, rather than every other greenie starting a crew before they understand how to play the game. I owe much of my game experience to the crew I started in.. I learned a lot just by being lucky enough to end up in an awesome crew. And I stayed.. If I'd run into a lot of the crews out there, I wouldn't have, and would never have bought a single dub.. I'm sure there are plenty of people in that situation, and again, I think that content levels should be unlocked with skill, rather than just time or poe. Overall, this would make the game more fun for everyone.. And I don't think that say, players needing blockade crews will run into an issue, because an experienced player can always get around crew creation requirements, where a greener player can't.

Alternately, limiting the number of possible trips of any kind loading would help pillaging, and also the other runs..

E.g.. an atlantis frig is in atlantis.. There are 1000 jobbers online, and they have 75 of them. The noticeboard figures that yes, that's enough jobbers for two atlantis runs, and allows you to start loading a new one. Same situation, but only 500 jobbers online, the board doesn't allow you to start a new run until the other one ports.. This might seem like a restriction, but it saves everyone's time. In the time 20 jobbers are standing on a frig waiting for it to load, 3 sloop pillages could have had 5 battles.. Jobbers are a scarce commodity, lots of people want to run their own trips.. by limiting total potential activities, you allow more successful runs overall, in all environments.. It's hard to check what else is going on, given that at any time, you can't see what's already out, unless it's in your arch, or you know everyone that does atlantis or flotilla runs on your ocean.. It really sucks for both a navver and a jobber to have to sit around waiting forever, because you didnt' realize four other runs were loading on top of you..
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Inanna, Sage
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[Jan 30, 2009 6:38:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
HiimEric2001

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I apologize for the overlap with the other thread and for the length, but I'd like to post part of a post I made a while back. While it is a bit long it addresses several points.

 
This was also touched on here, so I'll give my usual rant about spawns. Spawning is broken. Especially for sloops. Managing a ship such that you get reasonable spawns is not fun at all. It's not even challenging per se. It's just a pain in the ass.

It used to be that you could spawn cutters with 6 on board. With 7 you'd get MBs. The MB battles sucked so you'd use a hopper if you had 7 people who wanted to pillage. This always seemed broken to me. Being a hopper or having someone hop for you on your pillage, are not fun. And if there is a miscommunication and you end up in battle with no gunner, that is very not fun.

Now today, unless you want to be spawning long ships all day (which can max you in 3/4 of a turn), you need to have no more than 5 people on board. This means that you pretty much need 1 person on every station who is good enough to cover it by themselves. Sorry, Able-Master sailors. In the old days I would have taken 2 of ye with me and been fine. Can't count on that anymore. Unless I have a hopper of course, which is still not fun.

When they changed the AI and added new ships I was so excited that we weren't going to need hoppers anymore. I was expecting that the pain in the ass MB battles would be replaced with the new dhow battles, which, while much more challenging than cutters, would still be within reason. Nope, I was wrong. We started spawning baghlahs with 6, and it's been broken ever since then. It didn't help that they changed the AI at the same time they broke spawning. That was fun. Trying to learn new AI while fighting a freaking baghlah. To be clear, I don't have a problem with the new AI, and I think it's great that they got rid of LSMing. As a result I'm much much better at the bnav puzzle than I used to be. However, my pillages are still not as successful as they used to be.

Also, if you have only 5 on board (assuming no hopper), which you have to spawn with these days to get reasonable battles, and someone has to leave, you're automatically crippled until you get someone new. And if 2 people need to leave at once, geeze forget it. What's worse, is that when you lose people and gain more, your ramp goes down. This is not very casual friendly, is it? I can't for the life of me understand why, if I replace 2 mediocre players, with 2 highly skilled players, my ramp is cut in half, or worse.

I also still say the ramp is too hard on losses. If you lose at all in the first 3 battles your best bet is to go to port and reset the ramp if you still want to pillage, so basically, it ends your trip. If you lose after that, not only do you lose a large amount of booty but your ramp is neutered to all hell. Maybe they are trying to encourage short pillages by making the risk not worth it after 5-6 or something? I don't know, but it makes the game very very unfun when you lose. I thought that was part of the goal of getting half your booty up front? Taking the sting out of losing? To be honest, I'd rather they take more money when we lose, and let us keep our ramp (or only deramp by 1 battle, which is what I always figured would make the most sense), than force me to end the pillage because our ramp is dead.

And back to spawning. I was so excited when the voyage configuration was implemented. We were going to be able to dnav on pillages again without our ratings dropping like a brick, and we were going to be able to spawn what we wanted to fight. IT didn't work out that way though. Dnavving on pillages still kills your rating. Spawning by means of dnavving doesn't work very well (or at least, it doesn't work better than just sailing without a dnavver and getting whatever attacks you). And the auto-engage button is the biggest joke I've ever seen in game. When I train new officers, the first thing I tell them to do when they get on a ship is to turn off auto-engage. Even when I go on a ship to check the hold with no intention of sailing it I turn off auto-engage out of habit. Only bad things come from the auto-engage button. No Mr Baghlah, I didn't want to attack you. I don't care that you are yellowish-orange, like the cutters/dhows I was hoping for. Also: I'm sorry Mr Sloop That Someone Else Spawned For Their First Battle. You and your non-existent payout are not what I wanted either, even though you are greenish-yellow to me. Without a way to set parameters for ship types to attack, or a way to auto-engage only your own spawns, it is a tool that is more dangerous than it is helpful.

Dnavving isn't going to change the fact that if you put as many on a sloop as they were designed to allow, you are going to spawn at least Longships. And you know, I thought that this was just a problem that high end pillages were facing. During the Halloween event though, I went on a lot of pillages that weren't high end. I was literally shocked when I was with an inexperienced bnavver who spawned a longship with 6 on board in Emerald, and not even Guava-Wrasse. It was one of the green routes. Clearly it's not just broken for the high end. It's broken everywhere.

Also, it's pretty crappy that an inexperienced bnavver can easily spawn things much too hard for them, because they have highly skilled friends. Does the game even check who on the ship is bnavving? It doesn't make sense to me that a ship with highly skilled players and 1 inexperienced player will spawn the same things whether I am bnavving or the new officer is.

<Edit>
Crap, I knew I'd forget something.

The Ringers said a while back, that people were making less money pillaging than before the AI change and new ships were added. In response they upped payouts a little bit. I don't think that was the best answer to the problem. It seems just like a bandaid on broken game mechanics.

The issues I've brought up here should have been addressed and fixed, or changed in some way. Upping payouts slightly doesn't add any significant more fun to the game, or significantly detract from the frustration over the things that are broken.
</Edit>

tl;dr
The AI is not broken.
Movement bars are a little broken.
The ramp is broken.
Managing people on a sloop pillage is broken.
Spawning on a sloop pillage is very broken.
Dnavving on a pillage is very broken.

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Cire
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[Jan 30, 2009 7:13:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Cire Arodum [Link]  Go to top 
basso

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Other similarly minded options would be, the much requested and still denied captaincy requirements - I still maintain that good crews = good pillages and decent fun for all levels of play = more people staying around and paying OOO money.. If you increase *skill* requirements for starting a new crew, this would lead to more people in larger crews, rather than every other greenie starting a crew before they understand how to play the game.


I think this is an excellent point. So many newer players tell me that pillaging "makes no poe", and I wonder why this is. Then it struck me, they have been on pillages with captains/crews that have no clue what they are doing. Yes, a few great captains would be screened out if it required say 1 renowned duty puzzle standing to create a crew, but think of all the problems it would prevent. Greeter chat on dub oceans is currently being spammed by "green greeters", players who do not even understand the basics of this game. They are of course SOs and captains, and often royalty. Most of the questions asked on greeter should be answered by the pirate's crew. These players are shocked when told to ask hearties or crewmates, as if it never occurred to them.

Strong crews should be the foundation of this game, both socially and skill-wise. I would settle for having bolded piracy standings by the way, as 1 renowned might be too harsh.
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[Jan 30, 2009 7:14:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
nargon_forum

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I think the spawns generated for a sloop definitely needs some balancing. Currently, if you have a reasonably skilled crew, it is not unusual to spawn longships or baghlahs as your first spawn. This results in either 1) a long and conservative bnav, 2) a long and conservative bnav that ends up needing a reengage due to one mistake which ends up half-maxing a sloop in one turn. Neither 1) or 2) are fun for either the jobber or the naver. If you are fighting a overpowered ship, at least increase the booty payout to reflect that!

The number of spawns should also be increased significantly. It is not unusual to see no spawns for 3-7 LPs. This makes it boring for everyone. I remember when auto-target was first introduced and there was no way to turn it off but I do love the fact that I was getting 2-3 battles every LPs. However, it did get a bit too tiring and we needed a breather in between battles. I think having at 1-2 spawns per LP would be a good rate to keep the monotomy to a minimum but still give enough time to recover from the last battle.

The jobber churn that kills the ramp is particularly nasty. I don't mind if someone can only stay 2 or 3 battles but when they leave and leave the sloop slightly undermanned (ie. 4 or 5 on board), the ramp is immediately killed but the battles are actually slightly harder due to the increased difficulty in slower move tokens or the need to bnav and puzzle at the same time.

I don't mind bringing a greenie on board if I have a great crew but that always ALWAYS kill my payouts. This discourage introduces newer players to the potential payouts when they reached the skill levels to be regularly invited to high paying high-end pillaging.

I think that the Halloween competition was great. Pillaging was at an all time high. I was pretty drown in requests to lead pillages and I love it. Having trophies for certain numbers of brigands, barbs or general winning battles would be great in encouraging pillaging again.
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NickiCipi

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Re: Miscellaneous Pillaging Suggestions Reply to this Post
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This thread is for miscellaneous pillaging suggestions, as mentioned in the blog post here. As with the other two threads, what we're most interested in is your feelings on the status quo and whether you can concisely pin down any issues with pillaging worth addressing that are not covered by the other two threads.

As always, however, note that while we really appreciate your feedback in this area, we cannot promise the adoption of any particular suggestion in this thread, and this is not intended to be a 'vote' on what we implement next. The goal here is for us to get good comments collectively from you folks so we can better tackle any changes that we feel need to be made, not to have a hundred different people drown each other out with essays on how they feel pillaging should work. Collaborative, Constructive and Concise Feedback wins the day!

All that said, we look forward to your comments!



Why do all you OMs always leave us link couldnt you just put it all on one page instead of making us find the pieces to the puzzle =[
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Ohfroggyone greeter chats, "omgz, so booch"

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[Jan 30, 2009 9:10:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Nickicipi [Link]  Go to top 
basso

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This is an odd suggestion, but I thought it worth mentioning. Perhaps include the option of "unrated" duty puzzling. Sometimes I don't really feel like sailing at an ultimate level, but I could be lazy and get low excellents and such. It would be nice if I did not have to alt in order to do this. This would also be great for station hopping to fix sudden damage.

Yes, many people look down at protecting stats, and I rarely worry about mine too much these days. Still though, stats are important to many people, and I think more would be willing to puzzle in less optimal situations (and switch stations more) if they were able to be unrated. Switching stations more freely adds needed variety to the pillaging experience. If you can do unrated parlor games to practice, why not allow unrated duty puzzling? Also, stats would more accurately reflect ability if station hoppers were able to play the new station unrated.

The rated/unrated option could be part of the mini circle of options that appear when you click on a station, and obviously you would not get experience for unrated puzzling. To avoid exploits, once you pick a puzzle to be unrated, it should remain unrated until the ship is recharted, or possibly until the ship ports and resets.

As an example, it would be very fun to be playing normal bilge, and then hop on carp for under a minute in a pinch. After that minute, you could return to playing bilge. As things are, it is basically impossible to get any sort of a good score while carping for under a minute. Why be penalized for hopping around helping the ship? The build up time is actually the worst for sails, but it applies to all 3 basic duty puzzles.
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Montage of Sage
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OK, now I'm convinced. The problem here is that you cannot understand plain English.

[Jan 30, 2009 10:48:34 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jrzasa



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You guys really need to redo the jobbing interface. Holy crap do you need to replace the jobbing interface. These are things I'd like to see:

- Be able to put up a notice for each station. So instead of clicking "Put up jobbing notice" I'd have options for Sails, Carp, Bilge, and Guns. Then, when someone looks at the jobbing board, on the bottom of the notice it would say "Apply for Sails" and "Apply for Carp" etc. When they apply, it should give me their duty skill that they applied with. "Rzasa applied for Sails (Grand Master)". Still give the option to view their info, but give the important information for fast jobbing.

- Put the name of the Pirate who selected the jobbing notices, or have a way to link the boat to who is leading the pillage. I often see a Crew hiring for a pillage, but am leery of who is gonna be running it. I'd like to know.

- A jobbing notice could include how full the boat is. 5/7 for a sloop. 20/30 for a WB. While this would hurt new jobbing notices (since it would display 1/x) it would remove the frustration of someone jobbing, and then leaving. It would also allow ships that are almost full to get someone quickly and move on with life.

The only other thing I'd like to add, I second the above about ship sizes. While longships don't really bother me, trying to max a WB on a sloop or Cutter is a pain. It takes 15 shots, which is at least 4 rounds of shooting, and if they have enough people on them you still have a good chance of losing the SF or Rumble. I'd try and keep the ship size smaller.

~Rzasa
----------------------------------------
Rzasa - Hunter Ocean
Flag - Illusion
Crew - Mirage
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by jrzasa at Jan 30, 2009 11:25:00 PM]
[Jan 30, 2009 11:22:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Strider399

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Rzasa wrote: 
- A jobbing notice could include how full the boat is. 5/7 for a sloop. 20/30 for a WB. While this would hurt new jobbing notices (since it would display 1/x) it would remove the frustration of someone jobbing, and then leaving. It would also allow ships that are almost full to get someone quickly and move on with life.



No. It's hard enough filling a war brig when the jobbers hop on, see we're nowhere near leaving, and tell me to yell in crew chat when we're about to leave. Displaying how many we have would deter people from jobbing if they saw a ship needed 15 more people.
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estonianguy

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....
ppl, OOO,
you know theres only one, I mean ONLY ONE, way you can save pillagging, and thats by removing poker. It would solve all the problems in the game(blockades). I know it's not going to happen, but in the last year or so all updates have aimed to drive ppl away from poker so why not just remove it. I think somebody just have to sue you, for including poker in 13yo game, to put the brains back into your head.

~ E.
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akueh

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Less risk from switching stations, as above.

In fact, eg, maybe more shares if you get more than 1 exc on different stations.

Gradient payouts.
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DreadedChris



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Auto-target needs fixing. Right now it will grab any size ship that has the right color might ring, which might be better if issues with big ships raised in the payout section are fixed, but even so... because of the 'long conservative bnav' mentioned earlier in this thread, yeah, a lot of people might not EVER want a sloop v baghlah or sloop v WB battle if they can avoid it. (I don't think it's so bad that those ships might sometimes attack the sloop - it's that the sloop driver can't avoid attacking them while still using autotarget... and of course, autotarget is really necessary to be on station while hunting, for example, dnav... ) I'd like to be able to choose from a checklist those ship classes that I'd autoattack, but even an 'above/below this size level' would be ok.
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Crazyfighter

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Less risk from switching stations, as above.

In fact, eg, maybe more shares if you get more than 1 exc on different stations.

Gradient payouts.


Yes, this. We already have the system in blockades, I really think it would be good for some of the higher end pillages. However, the navver should have the option of turning it off, to prevent abuse.
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Pillaging was largely designed and implemented in a time and place where it was expected that many (though not all) players would be willing and able to commit to an uninterrupted 30-60 minutes, minimum. These days, even ignoring the effect of autodivvy, it's hard to find anyone who will give a pillage even half of that time before getting bored or being called away.

The playerbase has changed, their expectations have changed (consider all the alternatives now available in YPP itself, let alone the other things they could be doing), and pillaging needs to change substantially if it is to fit what this game has become. You probably know this already, given the blog post and these threads, but I felt I should state it clearly.

Is there any way to reduce the minimum time commitment for a modestly successful (non-elite) pillage to something like that of a Cursed Isles run? Assume a sloop is used for both.
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false_dmitri

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Long comprehensive summary of annoying things about the current form of pillaging that I've posted about before. (I hope the posts themselves weren't annoying. :) )

Losing puzzle state at league points because we didn't station within the 1 second between battle ending and hitting the LP. Losing puzzle states in general, even outside of pillaging. Keep track of last-active puzzle meters at least partway into the next scoring interval, whether it's a league point or an Atlantis break. Don't kill off someone's sails just because they got grappled on bilge or were treasure hauling.

This also contributes to puzzle grind. I realize we need to keep the ship from falling apart while sailing between islands and battles. But it doesn't need to have carp or even bilge working away nonstop. Some no-penalty way to pause the puzzle temporarily between battles? Give people more of an option to stand around talking after combat. The LP scoring reset is the biggest offender here, since it forces players to scurry onto station or start from scratch.

Lots of things involving duty nav are annoying. Having the puzzle killed in mid-board by an attacking ship 20 seconds after setting sail. Having the puzzle reset at LPs and when recharting. Getting intercepted with that reset meter shortly after resuming the trip. All these things drop the player's rank and make it more difficult to get nav to do what it's intended to. All ships have room for one person to stand around even with someone on helm...maybe we could have a full-time duty navigator independent of battle nav. But just better treatment of the scoring meter and the player's rank would be welcome. Having nav (and other stations) lose their effect fresh out of port despite showing sparkles is a problem too.

I have probably lost more targets and reengages to league point turnarounds than any other cause. We aren't able to pursue past a league point from earlier in our course without first recharting and hitting the sail button. This is cumbersome to do regularly, it can reset the dnav sparkle, and it takes too long in many cases. "Turn about" should carry us on past previous league points, or otherwise a separate "reverse course" option would do the trick. This would do a lot to cut down on long waits between battles and frustrating missed reengagements.

On a sloop or undermanned larger ship, it's impossible to duty nav and still keep watch for other vessels out of range of the mini window. This leads to a lot of missed targets, interceptions by the wrong ones, and sometimes having "our" ship stay far ahead for leagues, leading us to think there are no ships around. One relatively simple fix would be to display any ships in radar range on the voyage progress ruler, or on a zoomed-in ruler beneath it. That way we'd know whether to turn about, be ready to hit engage, etc.

Suitable ships don't show up often enough. I've gone for 20 minutes or more with no ship attacking us. Some of this has to do with being at speed and unable to monitor the crow's nest from dnav. But short of hitting turn about every couple seconds, there's not much I can do to keep us slow. Enemy frequency is too low and there's something preventing them from showing up enough to challenge full-speed pillage ships.

Autotarget is indeed broken, I don't touch it now. Needs to rule out large ships, allied flags for PvP, etc., or at least be customizable to exclude those.

Impossible to review jobbers and consult hearty lists from a puzzle station. I get around the first half by pulling up info pages in a browser window. Doesn't make it less annoying. Haven't found a hearty list workaround.

Impossible to fill certain ships to capacity without being punished heavily by the game in the form of large enemies that completely outclass us. This means excluding people we want to bring along. Among pillage ships, sloops and dhows get the worst of it. Longships and baghlahs somewhat. The maximum firepower for generated ships should be enough to cause full melee damage in 3 volleys. I would say four, but dhow and longship would be left without opponents unless only freight ships attacked them (which might not be a bad idea). Maybe a green route pillage should max out at 4 volleys required, and a red route at 3? 3 volley opponents can present a steep but winnable challenge, but save them for the top of the difficulty ramp, don't just base it on number of crew aboard. At least for sloops and baghlahs.

Melee penalties from abandons and disconnects are severe. Put a bot in melee for every person who dropped out before it began. They don't get any pay, they don't even have to attack much, but they'll at least give the enemy the correct number of targets at the start of the fight. Otherwise, the computer gangs up on too many of us early on and starts a cascade of player defeats. Goes for skellie and zombie matches as well. Few things as frustrating in the game as winning a long, brutal sea battle only to lose melee due to a disconnect.

There's no way to estimate enemy melee ability prior to grapple. Show their average melee skill either before engaging or during sea battle. Some way to roughly gauge how wealthy they are would be nice too.

Last problem is a lot harder to pin down. Single battles against the most difficult opponents can sometimes last for thirty minutes. Unless the navver is phenomenal at landing hits, there's no safe way to force the battle to end within 10-15 minutes. I don't go out of my way to find the super-ships, but even with midrange difficulty settings and high-output duty nav, I almost always run into a ship that simply refuses to stay put. Either it's on full offensive, forcing us to dodge and flee, or it's doing everything in its power to evade and camp against walls or whirlpools. At the low end of pillaging it's the other way around. Neither ship is likely to have many moves, so sooner or later the player ship is going to end up sitting in place and pounded for turn after turn. The problem there is that the computer ship has no moves either, so instead both sit franticly repairing for many minutes and limping around the board. I don't know how pillage battles could be tweaked into having a more consistent length. The answer could be some sort of endgame/sudden death mechanic, or perhaps just less effective repair stations during battle to force quicker resolutions. Some way to force a fight to an actual conclusion, without a disheartening disengage, could eliminate a lot of monotony for the ship's puzzlers.

I think those are my major pillage peeves. Most of these changes are probably not too difficult to program once gameplay is balanced. Addressing them would make the existing form of pillaging less stressful, less monotonous, and more entertaining for players. Thanks for considering our suggestions, it's very much appreciated. :)
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On hiatus. :(
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by false_dmitri at Jan 31, 2009 4:38:03 AM]
[Jan 31, 2009 4:18:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
cgg1305

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First of all, a big thank you. Pillage is the feature of the game I enjoy the most (and ultimately the reason for which I play Y!PP) and it is a pity that unlike all the new releases it is has been that neglected so far.

I have a long list of ideas to propose, so I'll make more than one post.


I. On Brigand Kings

BKs could be one of the more interesting features of pillage, if only it was properly implemented. They are very fascinating, and yet their background stories have been neglected (except for Vargas since the introduction of the Cursed Isles). On the forums we have run lot of events concerning them: we wrote their tales and flag statements, drew them, proposed new ones... and yet they are unheeded in-game. Brigand Kings deserve more love from the developers! Yarrr.

My feed-back and suggestions about Brigand Kings:

a. Brigand King hunt should be among the voyage settings.

Not all the players like it (being so time consuming and poorly rewarding as it is now) but I'm sure there is people out there who would like to join a BK hunt if job offers were really posted as such.

b. They should be easier to find.
I have run thousands of hunts, studying BK spawn but I think it's still too hard to find them. Attacking every red ship I come across it's a pain... if it's not a BK I have to wait 10 turns in order to disengage: what a waste of time! I should be able to recognize them or at least the auto-target (if it only worked) should attack BKs if I perform well the navigation puzzle and I have chosen a BK hunt in the settings.

c. Frays are too hard.
I have another suggestion about frays in general, since I firmly believe that it's a shame loosing a fray after max-0. Against BKs this is particularly frustrating: I may spend a lot of time looking them, trying and managing to max them and still ending up empty-handed. Sea battle should have a bigger weight on the final outcome.

d. Brigand Kings should be different.
Meeting Azarbad instead of Vargas should be a completely different experience, not only matter of SF rather than rumble or the trinkets they give away.

e. Trophies.
Not only trinkets should be available but trophies as well (like for SMH and CI).

f. A possible new feature: maps of Brigand Kings' lairs. After defeating a BKs you could get charts to their hidden lairs/flotillas. Every King's lair could and should be different from the others in terms of game play. The Cursed Isles could be Vargas'... but in that case they should only be available after beating Vargas at sea.
Pillaging maps of buried treasures: do that and the game could finally be called Puzzle Pirates.
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[Jan 31, 2009 6:27:46 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Birchle

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More a generic puzzle suggestion than being pillaging-specific, but pillaging seems to take the biggest fall as a result.

Add a slider to all puzzles, like has been re-added to gunning. Different levels are played different ways, and I'm sure I'm not the only person to find some points more enjoyable than others, regardless of abilities. If the play level can be set to a "fun point", perhaps it'd encourage people to return to puzzles they're no longer interested in playing. Maybe not to the extent of taking preference over the currently enjoyed puzzles, but to make them at least an option again. Heck, combine the unrated suggestions in and make the auto-level be rated, and anything else unrated, so people aren't artificially inflating/defalting scores, if it'd even things out better.

I'm also all for adding an unrated option as a standalone. There are times where I just may not feel like puzzling at my absolute best (and which is frequently unnecessary anyhow -- you don't need a super-high incredible to keep out bilge on a completely undamaged ship), but taking a ratings hit for something like that is a bit frustrating. Sure, it can be earned back if/when I feel like caring again, but that's just more grind.
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Birchle

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[Jan 31, 2009 6:55:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
selgnij



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On a sloop or undermanned larger ship, it's impossible to duty nav and still keep watch for other vessels out of range of the mini window. This leads to a lot of missed targets, interceptions by the wrong ones, and sometimes having "our" ship stay far ahead for leagues, leading us to think there are no ships around. One relatively simple fix would be to display any ships in radar range on the voyage progress ruler, or on a zoomed-in ruler beneath it. That way we'd know whether to turn about, be ready to hit engage, etc.


This, if you could make it so the type of ship were shown, that would make me so very happy.

Something for the undemanned/solo'd ship. The fact that the bots can neither Dnav nor gun has always annoyed me. On a sloop, more than one bot on sails is near pointless, and its often the case I would prefer to have a bot loading a cannon or two per turn than working on carp when there is no damage.
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JJI of Malachite.
[Jan 31, 2009 7:56:11 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Carvis



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creating a new type of pillaging.

For the most part pirates would engage in land raids for pillaging, so my suggestion is in this area. A flag could purchase a banner that would act like a ship for the crew, jobbers, etc. to gather around. with this ready they could then raid one of the island government strong holds on the islands of the oceans. defending the government places could be soldier types similar to zombies or skellies.

If the players win the of course get treasure and items, if they lose they would lose items, like cloths, swords, etc rather than money. In this way they would have to buy more equipement rather than always lose money.

This could also be added to a blockade that if the players win a blockade they can then take their banner and raid the enemies stronghold.

Like I said just a suggestion.
[Jan 31, 2009 9:17:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Carvis



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another idea for getting players to spend.

I have noticed that there are no warehouses that a player can buy on an island to purchase stock at and store there until they have a ship ready to collect it. I know at this time that with the bid tickets it can set there until collected but this seems a waste and does not keep the players active enough to pick up supplies fast.

By having that the player would need to buy a storage or warehouse to keep there purchases in seems a much more money generating method. That way if they don't buy or build a warehouse, to store goods in then after a time the goods would be resold and the player would lose the goods.

this could then also be used with the banner idea for one flag to raid anothers warehouses. It could also lead to the players needing to hire bot guards to protect there goods.

This would of course generate need for more poe and the buying of more dubs.
[Jan 31, 2009 9:23:25 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Carvis



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exploration of new islands.

Many players I have talked to have expressed an interest in being able to travel over land like they do the seas to explore new islands.

At this point a problem for the system unless you use the structure of forming pirate bands. Similar to the cursed island or atlantis there can for a period of time on all oceans be hidden islands that only the brigand kings know of and have maps to. If the players defeat a king they have a chance to find one of these lost islands.

A band could then land on this island and using a method similar to that used in the battle nav system move over the island to try and find a brigand kiings buried treasure. of course there would be obsticles to stop them, lets not make it too easy.

The way a band could lose is if they lose three battles while on the island before finding the treasure. They would then be sent home, minus the ship and have to begin again.
[Jan 31, 2009 9:30:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BobJanova

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Firstly, I am glad to see pillaging being the focus of development for a little while.

Now, I made a thread all about pillaging suggestions back in May 08 which you can look at here. I still basically stand by what I said then, but the most important thing is the changes to booty. It is just madness that by taking a greenie on your pillage, you decrease the amount of money you take; it positively demands that people create elitist cliques. Also, it is nonsensical that beating a large ship with a small crew is both harder and less rewarding than beating a large ship with a large crew, or a small ship with a small crew.
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Bobjanova on Viridian and Malachite
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[Jan 31, 2009 10:55:20 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
false_dmitri

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Guys, don't forget that there are other threads for payout and for adding variety to pillaging. This one's for everything else. ;)
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On hiatus. :(
[Jan 31, 2009 12:04:38 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
darom

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I want chests for winning every now and then. Not like a million chests. Maybe like 3 or 4 at the end of a 7-person sloop pillage. This would make pillaging more exciting, I think.

Also, the winnings per person should be relative to the amount of opponents defeated, not the players currently on the ship.

And more special ships. I never encounter BKs, and when I do, they don't pay out more or anything, I just get a useless trinket I hide in a trophy case somewhere in my house. I wanna see zombie ships and monster-esque ships. So once in a while (Maybe one in like 5 pillages) you'll encounter something spiffy whether you decide to attack it or not.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by darom at Jan 31, 2009 12:23:41 PM]
[Jan 31, 2009 12:21:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
false_dmitri

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darom wrote: 
I want chests for winning every now and then. Not like a million chests. Maybe like 3 or 4 at the end of a 7-person sloop pillage. This would make pillaging more exciting, I think.

This should be in the payout or variety thread.
 
Also, the winnings per person should be relative to the amount of opponents defeated, not the players currently on the ship.

This should be in the payout thread.
 
And more special ships.[...]So once in a while (Maybe one in like 5 pillages) you'll encounter something spiffy whether you decide to attack it or not.

This should be in the variety thread.
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On hiatus. :(
[Jan 31, 2009 12:34:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
t0rqt

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i think i've seen all the basic gripes and anecdotes mentioned...
and i'm very happy you are approaching the matter.

i didn't see (in my quick scan) some type of pillage incentive,
or to clarify, an incentive to stay on the pillage as long as possible,
and get it safely to port.

not sure if this would be a piece of tin, a trophy, or a rating.
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erro : karma (mid&mala) - bad company (hun)
 
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[Jan 31, 2009 12:43:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Giemz

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Add to the dnav screen a little tiny bit of a radar-like thing that would indicate that a ship is coming. So I can be ready to click the engage button. Or turn around button....

Add an ability to check info of jobbers when paused on puzzle. Or just the ahoy stat info, like when checking bot reputation.

Add an auto-job applicants option.

A "Teaming sucks, Re-team!" whistle option. Some people never jobbed with me and dont uderstand "more navigation" during fray. :)
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Fair Winds
Barbarosa of Malachite
Mostly retired - burned out at the moment.
[Jan 31, 2009 4:52:53 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
treepirate88

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Steven from Malachite wrote: 
There should be some form of personal reward given to the navigator and/or his pirates for winning LEGITIMATE PVP battles. Just chalking one up for the crew isn't cutting it. Also, crew ratings are too easily exploitable. Fix that while they are at it. Maybe a new form of currency or points redeemable for.... something. Personal shanghais for ship renames perhaps? Exclusive titles? Your name show up as Dread Pirate Steven! Save up enough to buy a Familiar or doubs?

Other ideas.... I had this idea long ago. Flags and/or crews should be able to directly tax pillages (just a few percent, not a lot) That will slightly HELP fundraising for blockades rather than encouraging poker table rigging, cross ocean elite familiar scalping/selling and other unpleasanties that are not with the spirit of the game.

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Expendable - Malachite
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[Jan 31, 2009 11:59:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
nargon_forum

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Steven from Malachite wrote: 
There should be some form of personal reward given to the navigator and/or his pirates for winning LEGITIMATE PVP battles. Just chalking one up for the crew isn't cutting it. Also, crew ratings are too easily exploitable. Fix that while they are at it. Maybe a new form of currency or points redeemable for.... something. Personal shanghais for ship renames perhaps? Exclusive titles? Your name show up as Dread Pirate Steven! Save up enough to buy a Familiar or doubs?

Other ideas.... I had this idea long ago. Flags and/or crews should be able to directly tax pillages (just a few percent, not a lot) That will slightly HELP fundraising for blockades rather than encouraging poker table rigging, cross ocean elite familiar scalping/selling and other unpleasanties that are not with the spirit of the game.


I like the first idea. This will be a nice incentive to encourage legitimate pvp battles between two pillaging ships.

However, I'm against the second idea. I think that if a crew or flag member wish to financially contribute, they themselves should determine their level of contribution. I don't think anyone should be forced to make financial contributions. This might possibly even hurt newer players that get taxed at the maximum rate because they don't know any better. It is the responsibility of the leadership to convince their members to put forward their desired/affordable contribution from their own free will.
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