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crash



Joined: Jul 28, 2003
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Confessions of a casual player Reply to this Post
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I was told that this forum may be the correct place to post this, basically the same info as this thread but I will sum it up here and leave it alone.

http://www.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthread?thread=1094

This game is amazingly fun, but one design decision has made this game difficult for the casual player. If I have to go to work or bed I need to be able to leave the game without losing my share of the booty. Some crews go all night without splitting. Sometimes on purpose. As a jobber I need to be able to take off without losing my share. If I play for an hour, I need to be able to get on, get a job, have some fun battles and do some work, and then get off. I don't want to get on for an hour and sit on a navy ship, that is way boring. I don't want to have to beg some crew to take me home or split because I have to go to work, it is annoying and makes it harder to get jobs in the future.

I'm guessing that this hasn't come up very much because there aren't a lot of casual players right now, but there will be after you release this game. If I've made 800 poe after a couple hours on a ship, but I really have to go, it is VERY FRUSTRATING to lose that money and hard work. That is a small fortune to a newbie. Other MMORPGS like EQ dont have this problem, the loot gets split after every fight. This is important, we have real lives and shouldn't be STUCK in the game waiting to get paid.

I spent a couple hours making money on a crew and needed to go to sleep. They decided to sail across the map to their home port first, which took two more hours after getting attacked numerous times. I was stuck there with no way off unless I wanted to lose all my money and work. This sort of thing has happened often to me, especially late at night. And what if I work/ fight for some crew for a couple hours and then get planked? The system actually ENCOURAGES jobbie abuse, cuz if you leave they keep their share.

While I am trying to have fun, not being able to get out of the game is not cool and frankly is a game breaker for me. Maybe I am the only one having this problem, maybe this game is not set up for casual players, if so then feel free to disregard this. I shouldn't HAVE to seek out and join a split-at-every-stop crew... there should be some sort of option to collect your pay and go if you need to. Perhaps make it so that you make less if you leave out of port to discourage people from leaving for no reason.
[Aug 1, 2003 7:05:07 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Frizzled



Joined: Jul 16, 2003
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Re: Confessions of a casual player Reply to this Post
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hey crash -

it seems like your problem has more to do with the captain than the game itself. when i take a ship out, i usually stay close to an island and try to divide after 2-3 brigs just to make sure everyone has some cash.

there are some crews out there that will just use you for cheap labor (which is silly, but it happens). if you feel like you're on one of these crews, cut your losses and leave. there are a lot of good pillage groups out there, and it sounds like you had a run-in with a bad one, but that doesn't mean the game is broken.

in the future, you might want to talk to your captain a bit, just to see what you're getting yourself into.

oh, and you don't lose your pay if you leave the ship. even if you quit, the captain can still give you a share of the booty once they reach their final destination. just talk with your captain a bit more, if you need to quit early, make sure it's ok, but that you'll still get a share of the cash.

_f
[Aug 1, 2003 7:16:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gotagota

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Re: Confessions of a casual player Reply to this Post
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Frequently if you speak to the captain and job with the understanding that you'll only be on for a limited time, they'll work to accomodate you. Good captains are not in the business of driving away potential crewmates.
----------------------------------------
Fronsac, human.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
.
-Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

[Aug 1, 2003 7:22:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Tybalt



Joined: Jul 16, 2003
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Re: Confessions of a casual player Reply to this Post
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I shouldn't HAVE to seek out and join a split-at-every-stop crew... there should be some sort of option to collect your pay and go if you need to. Perhaps make it so that you make less if you leave out of port to discourage people from leaving for no reason.


Captains and Officers get a split screen and can assing you a cut based on your performance. The captain COULD have agreed to pay you when he got back to port even though you were leaving early, and for lack of a better term, it sounds like you were getting pushed around. I've jobbed for quite a few crews and been fortunate in my encounters, but you definately got a bad apple here. This split screen can get cumbersome. If you've sailed around for an hour and not found a ship to pillage, you get turn over. People comming and going, and you have to remember what booty you took in while certain pirates were on-board. Honest Captains (for the most part) will split at each port to keep this system more managable. Can it be abused? Sure it can, but I don't think the solution is a programatic one.

 

Maybe I am the only one having this problem, maybe this game is not set up for casual players, if so then feel free to disregard this. I shouldn't HAVE to seek out and join a split-at-every-stop crew... there should be some sort of option to collect your pay and go if you need to.


I'd say the contrary is true. The Navy ships are set up for exactly this sort of play-style. You want to make money. You want to split at every port and be compensated based on how well you performed and for how long, this is the way you would go. If you want to risk a bad captain and go for the bigger rakes, then you have to job with a crew or save up and buy a boat to start your own. In my opinion, it is a very balanced system that provides an outlet for each type of player. You mention:

 

If I play for an hour, I need to be able to get on, get a job, have some fun battles and do some work, and then get off. I don't want to get on for an hour and sit on a navy ship, that is way boring. I don't want to have to beg some crew to take me home or split because I have to go to work, it is annoying and makes it harder to get jobs in the future


...but you get experience on the Navy Boats. You are working the same puzzles there that you would on a pillaging or trading boat. If you're bored there, you're going to be bored everywhere.

If you only have an hour to kill, there is no guarantee that the pillaging boat you job on will find a target/win a sea battle so you're risking a waste of time. The sure-fire way to get a good job is to join a good crew. Just like the other MMORPG's you mention, you start off in all of them having to go through some growing-pains before you get the big-loot and cool jobs. You have to make friends and join pick-up groups to get established and then join a crew (guild) that shares your interests.

Hope this experience didn't ruin the game for ya.
[Aug 1, 2003 7:26:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Rubby



Joined: May 4, 2003
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Aye, it totally depends on the captain. If a jobber or crewmate cut out in the middle of a pillage run with no word or anything, I cut their share dramatically to make up for the people who stuck around. But if they explain that they have work, or have to leave or whatever, I leave their booty in tact, since they were polite enough to say that they had to go and whatnot.

I dont see it being a game design problem, or it attacking the casual player as it is so much as you picking the wrong crews to job with. Besides, pillage runs can be long ordeals, espically if ye can't find ships right away, as is often the case. I know I've ran marathon sessions all over Emerald going from island to island, where at the end each jobber got at least 800 poe for his effort. So it all depends. Ye should be aware of yer play style and choose accordingly
[Aug 1, 2003 1:38:51 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Rubby



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Aye, it totally depends on the captain. If a jobber or crewmate cut out in the middle of a pillage run with no word or anything, I cut their share dramatically to make up for the people who stuck around. But if they explain that they have work, or have to leave or whatever, I leave their booty in tact, since they were polite enough to say that they had to go and whatnot.

I dont see it being a game design problem, or it attacking the casual player as it is so much as you picking the wrong crews to job with. Besides, pillage runs can be long ordeals, espically if ye can't find ships right away, as is often the case. I know I've ran marathon sessions all over Emerald going from island to island, where at the end each jobber got at least 800 poe for his effort. So it all depends. Ye should be aware of yer play style and choose accordingly
[Aug 1, 2003 1:43:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
oconp88



Joined: May 14, 2003
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Payment Woes Reply to this Post
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I would suggest joining a crew, maybe the Yellow Jackets, so that the officers will be a little more loyal to you.

Eduardo
[Aug 1, 2003 3:04:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
triskaideka



Joined: Jul 16, 2003
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Re: Confessions of a casual player Reply to this Post
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Not to play the "you just got a bad captain" record too much, but I wanted to point out that I definitely think it's worth checking out a crew's info and seeing what they have to say for themselves before you job with them. I went out jobbing for the first time last night. Looked at several crews who were offering jobs and decided that I didn't really want to hang out with them. Ended up working with the Mad Mutineers (who of course I also knew from their website), had a great time, made a lot of cash (at least by my previous Navy-vessel standards), and banked it frequently. Hope to do it again soon.
[Aug 2, 2003 1:40:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
crash



Joined: Jul 28, 2003
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Re: Confessions of a casual player Reply to this Post
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i've discovered what my problem is. i play late at night, after midnight pst. i work in the evenings so this is when i have to play. not very many people on at this time of night and so work is very scarce and its always the 'junior g man' captains running the ships. you pretty much have to take what you can get. i played yesterday during the day, on my day off, and let me tell you the game is vastly different in the day. everyone is cool and split all the time, but at night it really sucks.

so anyways anyone know any good late night crews?
[Aug 2, 2003 5:34:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Penndalla

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Re: Confessions of a casual player Reply to this Post
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The Rudder Lubbers sure be gettin' closer to a 24x7 crew. It ain't always; but most times, at the hours ye be speakin' of, RL is up and active. And as soon as ye hit officer with us, ye could make it more active durin' these times.

Our crew has a lot of USA folks, Austrailian folks, Europeans, and several in Israel. We got tons of mateys, and they be spread out in play times around the week and around the clock. The biggest thing we need now is to get more folks in the off-peak hours ready fer officership.

Send Pennsuedo, Zarhirra, Bobcat, Garf, Sapphire, Diamond, Barrenmore, or any of our officers a tell if ye want in. Or stop over at Gaea and check the jobbin' board. Ye can use /who Pennsuedo to pull up our crew list and look at the other officers' names. Surely ye will find someone on that can invite ye into the crew.

Check us out at www.alangrady.com.
----------------------------------------
Pennsuedo

My art: http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/Pennsuedo/?start=all
[Aug 3, 2003 12:23:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/Pennsuedo/?start=all [Link]  Go to top 
Cyst



Joined: Jul 20, 2003
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Late night crews Reply to this Post
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The Athenians tend to be around most nights past midnight. Not all nights, mind, but we sail the waters into the wee hours of the morning often enough.

You can do a /who Ruby, our captain, to pull up our crew info and see who's online. Good jobbers are always welcome when we're pillaging.

Good luck!
----------------------------------------
Fossey
Proud Pirate of the Athenians
[Aug 3, 2003 1:46:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Spooky



Joined: Jul 29, 2003
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Grief Reply to this Post
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While I understand that making sure that you choose good mates when you head out to sea is now considered "part of the game" and all that, I really do think that a case can be made that if there's a method available for people to "grief" other people, that they will. And the people that lose out when people decide to grief are usually newbies and casual gamers (both of whom are a *huge* source of revenue, and will be turned off by such stuff).

Essentially, I see all of this talk of "well you should find a better captain" as a workaround that people have gotten used to having to rely on because the flaw/bug hasn't gone away.

While workarounds are helpful until the problem is fixed, I feel that ultimately this is a problem and that it should be fixed. People shouldn't be punished because they don't have the time to research which crews to go out with, or be punished because they happen to log on when there aren't any nice captains around, or be punished for not using the forums to find people (for me, having to use forums is a huge immersion problem). You should be able to go out with any captain, and not have to rely on their being nice to you for your time to be useful for you.

It's such a small change, and it would make the game so much more friendly to casual players. Why not do it? Can anyone give me a good reason for why things should remain as they are, other than that there's an established workaround (and that's not a good reason, honestly...)?

I think the following quite from the "So, apart from Puzzling, why is Yohoho! cool?" question in the FAQ is related:

"We've paid careful attention to making Yohoho! fun to play, even for short periods of time. You don't need to renounce your friends at the 'real' grog-house to play Yohoho! - you can drop in to play for half an hour, or three anytime."
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Spooky at Aug 3, 2003 3:05:06 AM]
[Aug 3, 2003 3:05:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gotagota

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Re: Confessions of a casual player Reply to this Post
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Ye know, we wouldn't even have th' problem of casual pirates gettin' turned off if e'eryone just worked fer the Rudder Revolution. Ain' no flag more dedicated ta givin' every player th'best play experience possible!


[size=9]This message brought to ye by the Gaea Island tourism commission.
----------------------------------------
Fronsac, human.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
.
-Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

[Aug 3, 2003 3:19:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
garf



Joined: Jun 17, 2003
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Re: Grief Reply to this Post
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Spooky wrote: 
It's such a small change, and it would make the game so much more friendly to casual players. Why not do it? Can anyone give me a good reason for why things should remain as they are, other than that there's an established workaround (and that's not a good reason, honestly...)?


the problem with this is that it works both ways. sven swabbie lets me job him, stands around fer 5 minutes, i'm about to /plank him when getting intercepted. sea battle commences, he gets the afk-death, and then i shouldnt be allowed not to pay him?

well, i surely prefer if the more dedicated and established players (which captains and officers are by tendency) keep the control. *they* can lose a reputation, but many random newbies wont care.
----------------------------------------
- Randal

[size=9]also Garf, Silvain and a few others
[Aug 3, 2003 5:54:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    garf+on+aim [Link]  Go to top 
malphigian



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Re: Confessions of a casual player Reply to this Post
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I agree that this is a problem. This has happened several times to me when I've been jobbing for another crew (the rudder lubbers have been great, o' course).

I haven't ever captained a ship, so forgive me if these are ignorant suggestions.

suggestion 1
-If a player has to log off mid-voyage, they do so. If possible, sharing the reason with everyone.
-When time comes to divvy the booty, the logged off players are still listed, giving the option to still give them their share, or not. The money going into the nearest bank account.
This still leaves control in player hands, so a player could still "grief" another player, but allows someone with a real life concern to leave without losing the effort they put in. I think this would require the game listing how many sea battles each player participated in.

suggestion 2
Allow a user to log off at anytime, taking an automatic cut that is significantly smaller (say 50%) of what they would have gotten had they stayed aboard. This would discourage people from bailing unless they had a good reason.

I think this is a real problem right now for even not-so-casual players.
[Aug 3, 2003 6:47:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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Re: Confessions of a casual player Reply to this Post
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Suggestion 1 can work right now and does. Anyone who was ever aboard after the last division will come up in the division interface with their pay scaled according to their rank (pirate, officer, etc.). On The List is a ship log that will record how long anyone was on, and possible have that be factored into the booty division.

Suggestion 2 has the major problem of people who leave inappropriately. If my ship gets attacked and one of my jobbers suddenly disappears, I'm unhappy with him taking cash with him automatically. This would be especially frustrating with jobbers who exploit this when they happen to belong to the crew who attacks me. This has happened.
I am not totally adverse to Suggestion 2, but it affects something else that I don't want to have happen. We want people to want to hire jobbers and not just use swabbies. If any jobber can up and disappear without saying anything and take booty with them, I think it would discourage captains from taking jobbers. This would overall be worse for jobbers than the captains who don't put into port.

Speaking of the "strategy" of these captains, please read my response to Crash's other post for comments on that.

As always, if someone is truly a problem at this phase of the game (the phase where it's free and a privelege to play) use /complain <whatever the situation is> to capture the recent dialogue and we will take care of the situation.

-Nemo
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-Avatar by AlexisAngel-
[Aug 3, 2003 7:04:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
malphigian



Joined: Jul 25, 2003
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Re: Confessions of a casual player Reply to this Post
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Aye, thanks for the response Nemo -- s'what I get for making suggestions without having seen the interface for that bit first hand meself.

I can see your point about suggestion 2, could cause far more problems than it solves.
[Aug 3, 2003 7:27:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gotagota

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Would it be possible to implement suggestion 2 as a toggle for a crew? So casual-player friendly crews can give the option to allow casual players to make money with relatively little time investment (and incidentally open themselves to exploitation) and the more dedicated crews can keep it the old way.

Wouldn't this make everyone* happy?

Or would nobody use it?


*- [size=9]Except of course for the programmer tasked with such a project. But we players don't see his suffering <Grin>
----------------------------------------
Fronsac, human.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
.
-Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

[Aug 3, 2003 7:47:37 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
crowsdiamond

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Ok, here goes another shameless plug for the PPA.... hehe Get in contact with any of the PPA officers... do a /who Faile to see a list... the list is mighty *snicker, couldn't help meself*

Ships logs WOULD be a great help, especially on the larger boats. I can usually keep track of who comes and goes on the small ones, but have difficulties with the brigs and beyond. And aye, I know, i know... its on THE List... not my little piddly one. *grin* I base divvy's on who is ON the boat when we start, how many battles they were in with us, etc. Even if you have to log off, and we haven't had a battle yet, I'll pay navy wages just because its the right thing to do. (Unless of course ye acted like the backside of a poxied mule, then ye get NOTHING! *sweet smile*)
----------------------------------------
~Faile
Once Captain of the Mighty PPA
Once Captain of the Falcon's Fury
Now Unretired and ready to KILL!!

Just point me to what you want dead, an' I'll kill it. Or die trying!
[Aug 3, 2003 8:29:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Crowsdiamond [Link]  Go to top 
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