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Frizzled



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Close with Enemy Ship Button Needed (Sea Combat) Reply to this Post
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Right now sea combat is a huge guessing game, especially against brigs. Some fights can take as long as 5 minutes, just trying to get your ship to ram the NPP's, with both of you endlessly circling each-other.

It's silly when you're one move away from the brig and you have to think, "Ok, left or straight ... Nuts! He went straight." ... Repeat ad-nausium.

Can some-kind of "close with enemy" option be added? This would forfeit all your moves for the turn, but if the enemy sailed so you could get to them with one move, your ship would automatically use the proper piece and ram them. (Like an overwatch option).

It would really take the frustration out of current sea battles without removing the tactical aspects.

_f
[Jul 30, 2003 5:56:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Cleaver
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Grapple! Reply to this Post
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I like this idea. It's a Grapple piece, which was in the original design but I could never work out. On the List it goes. The List is mighty.

p.s. Often a good technique is just to wait for them to come to you.
[Jul 30, 2003 6:02:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
Stoneman



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Re: Close with Enemy Ship Button Needed (Sea Combat) Reply to this Post
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The last thing cleaver said there is a smart thing.. Does work well for me when i use that tactic.. The only thing is that it may take ages because the NPP`s are so freaking stupid.. :P No offence...
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-=Feared now and then=-
[Jul 30, 2003 6:09:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://tt.bulie.com    ehaanaes    Ehaanaes [Link]  Go to top 
saynata

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Re: Close with Enemy Ship Button Needed (Sea Combat) Reply to this Post
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Who are you offending? The NPPs have no feelings!

...well, maybe all of them but Victor...*sigh*
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[size=9] Saynata, Captain and Supreme So-and-So of The Sirens; Former Mistress of the ol' Sew 'n' Sew.
[Jul 30, 2003 6:39:19 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
garf



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Re: Close with Enemy Ship Button Needed (Sea Combat) Reply to this Post
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the piece as described above by frizzled would most certainly take out a lot of tactics.

it should be a definitive no-no in pvp. and versus brigands, they must no get access to it. when fighting vessels more powerfull than ye, ye surely want some time to get the other ship damaged..
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- Randal

[size=9]also Garf, Silvain and a few others
[Jul 30, 2003 7:21:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    garf+on+aim [Link]  Go to top 
Cleaver
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Piece Reply to this Post
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Thinking about it since my initial excited post I am less convinced that this is a good idea. But if you could play it alone in a turn, it would be an interesting tactic. Anyway, when I said it was on the list, it's a long way down...
[Jul 30, 2003 7:27:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
Frizzled



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Re: Close with Enemy Ship Button Needed (Sea Combat) Reply to this Post
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the piece as described above by frizzled would most certainly take out a lot of tactics


I think you're a little confused on how it would work. It would only be viable if a ship moved within one square of you. Otherwise, using this option would mean your ship would just sit dead in the water for that turn, waiting for the enemy.

Personally, I think this would add to tactics, rather than taking away from them - because if this option was miss-used, your ship would be dead in the water, while you opponent gets 4 moves + cannons on you.

I'm just looking for an option that will allow ships to close easier. If a ship comes within one square of you, brig or Pvp, there should be some automatic option that allows you to ram them. If you want more cannon-play, stay out of that 1-square range that will let them close with you.


_f
[Jul 30, 2003 8:02:57 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Re: Close with Enemy Ship Button Needed (Sea Combat) Reply to this Post
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I don't seem to have trouble getting them in 10 turns, especially when they attacked me. Sitting still does wonders if ye are dancing too much. Maybe you're doing it wrong?
[Jul 30, 2003 10:00:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Vgnight



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Re: Close with Enemy Ship Button Needed (Sea Combat) Reply to this Post
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i have 2 problems with npp ships.
1. they auto attack i was trying to get form alpha to turtle and evrey couple inches i get attacked by some npp ship.
2. they attack you then they run when in the acctual sea battle it drives me crazy. Lets attack them then run the opesite direction.
[Jul 30, 2003 10:23:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com    vgnight    vgnight [Link]  Go to top 
garf



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Re: Close with Enemy Ship Button Needed (Sea Combat) Reply to this Post
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i did understand what ye meant. what else should it be.. if it had no severe range limit, ye could just ditch the whole puzzle since the stronger vessel would jest grapple right at the start.


but even with a 1-field distance grapple, a lot of potential damage situations would be gone.

example:


x..
..o


x being you, o being the enemy vessel, both facing up.

right now, that is a very good chance to get cannon hits in. ye sit and fire.

with a grapple, o as the stronger vessel would jest do a left turn and grapple which ye want to avoid.
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- Randal

[size=9]also Garf, Silvain and a few others
[Jul 30, 2003 10:26:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    garf+on+aim [Link]  Go to top 
Rengor



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Re: Close with Enemy Ship Button Needed (Sea Combat) Reply to this Post
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Sure it can be frustrating but I wouldn't want to change it anyway.

What is related to that I would like to see changed is:
- Cannon damage seems to have no effect on the brigands token production. I can blow tons of cannons thru their hull and sails and they still get 4 tokens every turn it seems. Some more radical damage effect which players have to deal with would be nice. Then you get a tactical advantage of getting more tokens than the opponent to counter the frustration mentioned.
- I dont like the situations where two ships facing each other on adjacent squares both move at the same time switching squares and going right thru each other. Instead there should be rock damage to both ships and they should come to a halt and start melee. Same with diagonal switches. That would take a couple of frustrating situations mentioned away too.
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-= SilverBeard of The Mad Mutineers =-
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[Jul 30, 2003 11:42:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Frizzled



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Re: Close with Enemy Ship Button Needed (Sea Combat) Reply to this Post
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actually garf, you just proved you don't get it ... using this option the ship couldn't move AND grapple - it would be one option OR the other. that's what still allows for tactics, the only time grappling is effective is when it's practically enivatable

please go back up and re-read what i posted, it's obvious from your example that we're not talking about the same thing, because your example isn't want im suggesting.

you did the same thing on my cannon post (and again, you mis-read it), please read the whole thing and try to get an understanding of it before you go after the idea.

_f
[Jul 30, 2003 11:45:39 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
stevoid



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Re: Close with Enemy Ship Button Needed (Sea Combat) Reply to this Post
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Stoneman wrote: 
The last thing cleaver said there is a smart thing.. Does work well for me when i use that tactic.. The only thing is that it may take ages because the NPP`s are so freaking stupid.. :P No offence...


Have to agree with that one; I was in a battle for about 20 turns yesterday. I tried chasing them and they ran away; tried sitting still and they went in a circle; I tried moving to right in front of them and sitting for 2 turns; they turned left eventually; then I managed to get a one-move which would DEFINITELY intercept because they were stuck in currents, and they disengaged when it was them that had attacked me!
[Jul 30, 2003 12:40:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
garf



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Re: Close with Enemy Ship Button Needed (Sea Combat) Reply to this Post
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harr, frizzled, did i?

then tell me how to escape in that situation after i fire. if i move after standing the first two turns (we all know that brigands and even more so, player vessels, are quite unlikely to move on their first turn in that situation), the enemy would add a right turn after his left turn and be right next to me regardless of how i moved. that leaves exactly one turn to get away - otherwise, i will be on an adjacent square at the start of the next round and therefore be boarded. a 50-50 chance at best. thats not including any obstacles.

that said, if an option (more likely a grappling hook to be loaded in cannons and fired like them, me thinks) like you described were to get into the game, i could possibly live with it if a lot of risk was added. an obvious thing would be to not only lose all yer moves fer that round, but also all yer tokens (and dont generate any during that round).


what cannon post are ye talking about? the only posting i did in that thread replied to cleaver, not to you. quite obviously, i might add.
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- Randal

[size=9]also Garf, Silvain and a few others
[Jul 30, 2003 10:33:29 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    garf+on+aim [Link]  Go to top 
Frizzled



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Re: Close with Enemy Ship Button Needed (Sea Combat) Reply to this Post
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garf -

Cleaver got it, you didn't ... my work here is done.

_f
[Jul 31, 2003 1:45:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Re: Close with Enemy Ship Button Needed (Sea Combat) Reply to this Post
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If there were a grappling hook -- and I'm not really convinced there needs to be one, if cannon damage slowed them down more -- I rather like the loss of tokens either way (i.e., successful grappling goes to the fight, failure makes them disappear because all hands were trying to board) as a trade-off for boarding when not adjacent.
[Jul 31, 2003 1:52:19 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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Re: Close with Enemy Ship Button Needed (Sea Combat) Reply to this Post
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Rengor wrote: 

- I dont like the situations where two ships facing each other on adjacent squares both move at the same time switching squares and going right thru each other. Instead there should be rock damage to both ships and they should come to a halt and start melee. Same with diagonal switches. That would take a couple of frustrating situations mentioned away too.


Absolutely. I am putting it on The List, and if a programmer tells me otherwise I will scuttle him! Then, of course, I'd pass right through him because we'd be moving into each other's spaces and then I'd have to swing around, but so would he and we'd magically phase through again, [size=11]and then I'd get frustrated and sit there [size=10]and so would he, so nothing would happen [size=9]and then we'd simultaneously pass again and [size=8]fire our cannonballs [size=7]just behind one another...

Nemo
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[Jul 31, 2003 2:18:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gotagota

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I have nothing of value to add to this discussion. Reply to this Post
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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
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Fronsac, human.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
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-Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

[Jul 31, 2003 5:11:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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Re: Close with Enemy Ship Button Needed (Sea Combat) Reply to this Post
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Maybe a simpler way to make it easier to get into combat is to add a button to just go straight to the sword battle. But only if both ships opt in. I've been in battles where an npp ship attacked me and I wanted to fight them, but it took many frustrating turns before we managed to land on the same square. They clearly wanted to fight me, and I wanted to fight them, so the sea battle portion was just a frustrating waste of time trying to guess where the other ship might move this time. If one ship wants to flee or use their cannons, they can simply choose not to skip the sea battle if presented with the option. Just my $.02

-Toxy
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Penndalla

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Re: Close with Enemy Ship Button Needed (Sea Combat) Reply to this Post
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That is a very good idea!

Make sure it shows the other that the board button has been pressed, and NPPs who wish to board and do no' intend to fire cannons could press it atfter a few rounds or immediately once the player did.
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Pennsuedo

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[Jul 31, 2003 6:24:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/Pennsuedo/?start=all [Link]  Go to top 
garf



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Re: Close with Enemy Ship Button Needed (Sea Combat) Reply to this Post
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that idea is so easy, simple and good that its astonishing noone came up with it yet.

im all for the opt-in-boarding-button, aye.

i dont agree, however, that you should see your opponents button status. that could give away a lot of strategic information (they must be out of cannon balls, they must be rather powerfull, ...).
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- Randal

[size=9]also Garf, Silvain and a few others
[Jul 31, 2003 7:43:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    garf+on+aim [Link]  Go to top 
Penndalla

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Re: Close with Enemy Ship Button Needed (Sea Combat) Reply to this Post
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Aye, ye probably right, Garf. Har.
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Pennsuedo

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[Jul 31, 2003 7:45:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/Pennsuedo/?start=all [Link]  Go to top 
Gotagota

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Re: Close with Enemy Ship Button Needed (Sea Combat) Reply to this Post
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Either garf is getting saner or I'm getting wierder, because again I agree with him. Not only is the opt-in a fabulous idea (that I'd probably never use <grin>) but also keeping the status secret.

I am certain if you want your opponent to opt-in, you'll just /tell them.

The recent changes to /who do make this more difficult, aye. But does the person controlling the sea battle puzzle count as the navigator for /who purposes?


Caveat: I love the sea battle puzzle; it reminds me of the airship battles in Skies of Arcadia. I can't exactly explain why, though...anyway, you'll never see me skip of the best part of the battle!
----------------------------------------
Fronsac, human.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
.
-Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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