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Forums » List all forums » Forum: Piratical Parley and Politics » Thread: When did YPP jump the shark? |
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Thread Status: Normal Total posts in this thread: 90
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Fiddler
Joined: Mar 4, 2004 Posts: 4560 Status: Offline |
It's obvious that many people are unhappy with how the game has progressed since they first joined. So I'm kind of curious - when did Puzzle Pirates "jump the shark" for you? Was it whisking potions or the universal purse? Trinkets or trophies? Rumble or poker? Brigand Kings or Atlantis? At what point did you you think that the Ringers completely and utterly betrayed everything that attracted you to this game? ---------------------------------------- Orsino, Viridian ocean Forum-mute: your best friend
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marundel
Joined: Jan 7, 2007 Posts: 2767 Status: Offline |
Well, speaking as someone newer to the game (Jan 07 join date), I can't really say that they've done anything to betray what brought me to the game in the first place. I CAN say that there are things I would like to see added and other things eliminated, but I would classify them more as "tweaks" than a betrayal of purpose. ---------------------------------------- Pizzahutpete on the Cerulean Ocean Monarch, Super Awesomeness SO, Boochin' Drunks Pizzahutpete everywhere, thanks to the merge |
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dan1701
Joined: Sep 3, 2005 Posts: 1809 Status: Offline |
1) Atlantis Divide Aka the Lottery. 2) Experience "Grind" trophies, rewards for just doing something without note of skill. 3) The very broken risk reward concept, Ie Foraging/Gem running the almost 0 risk for huge rewards 4) Poker! No thread like this would be complete without Poker is ruining the game! It has though without doubt changed the game, it is now probably the largest way a pirate can make poe. That said none of those have changed what kept me in the game after the 1 week trial, the people, the community. Which thankfully is still there. ---------------------------------------- Mrtickle/Mrtickles More commonly in plural form Still Rioting if less than ever. |
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marundel
Joined: Jan 7, 2007 Posts: 2767 Status: Offline |
Fixed ---------------------------------------- Pizzahutpete on the Cerulean Ocean Monarch, Super Awesomeness SO, Boochin' Drunks Pizzahutpete everywhere, thanks to the merge |
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dan1701
Joined: Sep 3, 2005 Posts: 1809 Status: Offline |
You're just exagerating my point, its the way the few make millions, and the many lose thousands, thus its a hugs redistributor of wealth, making it possible for the very talented poker players to make more than say an entire frig pillage. ---------------------------------------- Mrtickle/Mrtickles More commonly in plural form Still Rioting if less than ever. |
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Geneboo
Joined: Dec 16, 2007 Posts: 618 Status: Offline |
These two and 3) Changing the booty to be shared after every battle. 4) The Skelly system I rather be out then base it by luck. 5) Xebecs not firing Large Cannon Balls. ----------------------------------------
Warhammer ftw |
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Dylan
Joined: Jul 21, 2003 Posts: 9960 Status: Offline |
Have you considered that after playing any given game for a heck of a lot of time, it is possible to be simply "not so addicted" to it any more? It is an open-ended game, where you can define your own goals. That hasn't changed since Azure. It has relatively low system and network requirements, by design. The memory requirements may have gone up a bit. The point at which the Ringers completely and utterly betray... hrm... that would be when Cleaver gets confronted in his lair and admits that YPP was designed to change everybodies brains into potatoes, so that he can make FRIES with them! Muahahahahah! Wait... mmm... brain fries... yumm! |
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Technician
Joined: Jul 10, 2005 Posts: 1900 Status: Offline |
Think the best saying that is most apt here is "theres nothing more constant than change". End of the day OOO have attempted and to a great extent succeeded at making the game more diverse as so its suits a wider range of player base. I dont have any figures to base this personal statement of pure speculation, but i'd guess player retention levels now are up in comparason to say 2 years ago. ---------------------------------------- Rover of Viridian VOTE FOR ME HERE! |
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kenjennings
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 7497 Status: Offline |
I really don't think player retention has risen at all. It has more than likely gone down. ---------------------------------------- [removed by SOPA] |
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Siggy
Joined: Jun 7, 2004 Posts: 1238 Status: Offline |
/me silently ponders the result of a corner brain fries opening. ---------------------------------------- Sig Owner: Sig Supply Network What happens when you beat whiny sword fighters with overpowered trash swords...
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marco_161091
Joined: May 23, 2006 Posts: 448 Status: Offline |
I'm not "upset" in the true sense but these few points made the game less enjoyable for me: 1. Atlantis 2. Atlantis 3. Atlantis I simply loved the age of the War Frigate pillages. Atlantis ruined most of it. ---------------------------------------- Benzene265 said
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Kotetsu534
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I enjoy Atlantis itself but take serious issue with how the rewards are divided - such that someone can puzzle straight Incs for hours and leave with a few thousand poe while a much lower level puzzler, or heck, a near-lazer, can leave with something extremely rare. Still a good place to go, but could use some changes. Poker is only issue to me in the sense that most people are wagering far far more than they should in their skill level (perhaps actually making the standings reflect something meaningful would help?). The average top 10 percentile player in any other puzzle (sole exception maybe Hearts, and then rarely) does not wager anywhere near what the average top 10 percentile poker player wagers. This means that someone like me - who spent two hours reading poker strategy - can acquire extreme amounts of poe from people who don't know what they are doing. Perhaps my main irritance is that it is virtually impossible to take out a ship and keep jobbers for any length of time - I end up soloing or running with one other faithful jobber after 15-30mins. But everyone knows that story. I only joined in July/August of 2007 (I played on subsequently deleted pirates before that for a short time). ---------------------------------------- Nomura, SO of Innocent, Member of Crimson Tide, Midnight. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Kotetsu534 at Jul 29, 2008 9:45:31 AM] |
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pumpty
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I thought when they changed Skellies to be fairer to slower computers, thus giving more ppl a chance was a good change. However, I feel that the way you can be booted so many times, and often during the winning fray is soooo WRONG. I liked Atlantis, but again you can be working a ship for 5+ hours and do really well on your puzzles, but not even get a chest in the stupidly random divide. Now that really Sucks!! As for Poker, love it or hate it, it generates millions of poe for some and sends others into their own private hell. I hate the rudeness and bad sportsmanship in the chat :-( I have been playing PP for just over 2 years and still manage to log in most days. I do enjoy many aspects of it, and still there are areas I have not investigated. So it would appear there is more scope for me still. And the DUB price is wayyyyy tooo high now :P Saucebox. On all Oceans |
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Siggy
Joined: Jun 7, 2004 Posts: 1238 Status: Offline |
I don't think it has jumped the shark. There really hasn't been any drastic changes, like say, Star Wars Galaxies. Regardless of the game, you will constantly see the hand waving freakoutry about how change X or Release Y.5 completely ruined the game. Shall I list the things I remember "killing the game" from when I first started playing Y!PP? 1. dub model of payment 2. global purse 3. Ferry fees (hurt newest players the most) 4. Jorvik (how many blockades did that reach?) 5. Fandango (zomg, people not holding up the status quo!) 6. Spirit of the Game ban stick (and by extension, ex post facto bans) 7. Fame 8. Biapets (automatic familiar tourneys) Strange, I took a few years off and the game is still here. Only now it's poker, atlantis, flotillas, and Chuck Norris killing the game. Is Wazzy the new RobertDonald in terms of stirring up one of the oceans?
Well, you can fix that for us. Please start working your magic on Malachite. ---------------------------------------- Sig Owner: Sig Supply Network What happens when you beat whiny sword fighters with overpowered trash swords...
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taelac
Joined: Sep 17, 2005 Posts: 3762 Status: Offline |
It hasn't. I still look forward to each new "episode," and they've yet to cease pleasantly surprising me. ---------------------------------------- ~Taelac ROMS XVII:Vanilla Filler Dead Thread |
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StuManchu
Joined: Jun 22, 2004 Posts: 7706 Status: Offline |
It's all relative to what individuals perceive, really. I'm old and jaded, other people are old and bushy-tailed still. Dylan was pretty much right. ---------------------------------------- Was once Stuyvesant Redistribute your wealth, or we'll redistribute your blood. |
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Talisker
Joined: Jul 24, 2003 Posts: 11126 Status: Offline |
I guess over time it's what I see a slow turn from group gameplay to solo. I don't mind the global purse, it's certainly more convenient, but what stands out in my mind was "buried treasure" ships that our flag ran almost weekly where you'd get a handful of mates, hop on a sloop and recover money at various islands and just sorta circle an arch to consolidate the cash for everyone on board. Trophies are kind of fun, sure. They tend to encourage solo play as well though. Even many of the shipboard ones, you'd prefer to do on the navy because a poorly timed encounter could booch you. I wish there was more of a restriction on alts. Really, they shouldn't be there at all. Using alt crews to avoid war and to cheat your way around embargo cheapens high level game play. Using eleventybillion accounts to funnel eights to your main is simply retarded and should have been SotG'd ages ago. Labor alts are dumb. Alting in parlor games is ridiculous. It shouldn't be done. It shouldn't even be an option. On the whole, there seem to have been a number of increasing individual goals through housing, gold, familiars, trophies, etc, with no corresponding increase in group goals. My big concern is that so much of this has been ingrained that there's no changing it. The big group goal out there is an Island. It always has been. Sort of a crappy goal, because they're almost not worth it in the long term. Frequently suggested ideas that would make them more interesting as a tool in the larger social game haven't been addressed. More fine grained governor controls, effective embargos, some control as to what actually happens on the Island could actually make these interesting again. The big goal when I started was to build up to take an island. It was everyone's goal. As colonization has generally slowed down and/or ground to a halt, islands become more pointless. You can't build up anything, only ruin what's there. The few suggestions mentioned in the last paragraph would make them more of a social tool where large aspects of the game could be manipulated. I guess there's Atlantis. I really like Atlantis, other than the booty div. It's a good addition, a varied environment with lots of opportunities to do what is liked. I'd like some other versions, perhaps enforced smaller boats, rumbling atlanteans, etc. What would be great is some sort of flag-level goal that's not an Island. I guess as we've moved towards more of a solo affair, the game population as a whole has become more correspondingly filled with jackasses. You no longer need to find like minded individuals to achieve things, as most goals are individual. Maybe that's not the primary cause, but I prefered the player base that tried to come up with good names for buildings (see Luthien's open competition for LotR themed names) to the one that thinks "ZOMG! Dumbassbeard's Inn!" is a good plan. Granted, I'd also prefer the game to incentivize PvP more. I thought they were going that way with the Titan. When you have something that can serve to cheapen pixellated "investments" then maybe attitudes would shift away from an endgoal of "Sit here forever doing nothing to piss anyone off." Xi on Midnight's been held for like 4 years, and only been blockaded twice. Frankly, that's dumb. I love my mates in CT, so I hope they don't take that wrong, but that's a huge game flaw right there. I wanted flag wars and excitement and hot pirate on pirate action. That used to be a Dev goal, but it doesn't seem to be anymore. It seems to have gone from "Hot Pirate on Pirate Action" to "Occasional Mild Pirate vs AI Action That's Unlikely to Offend, Except for a Lack of Tangible Rewards." Well scupper that. So where did YPP jump the shark? I can't point to a single change, but the point where they abandoned Hot Pirate on Pirate action as a game design goal. I mean, I still like a lot of the game. It just seems like a lot of the potential's been frittered away on other things. Fronsac said in GD ages ago that probably isn't the game I thought it was. He's likely right. ---------------------------------------- Leif The Forums
Av by Ecastasy |
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StuManchu
Joined: Jun 22, 2004 Posts: 7706 Status: Offline |
Oh yeah we talked about this on Saturday. Hot Pirate on Pirate action indeed. ---------------------------------------- Was once Stuyvesant Redistribute your wealth, or we'll redistribute your blood. |
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Burnt_Water
Joined: May 16, 2006 Posts: 3092 Status: Offline |
Isn't adventure islands under development? I'm hoping they're going to allow people to make quests to make things seem less stagnant. Might explain why the titans are on hold. Foraging puzzle to be introduced. Possibly economic apocalypse. Haven't checked the blog or ice logs lately to know what else is planned. If you browse the ideas list, they have plenty of choices to pick from. If they pick certain things to develop, they must have reason to do so. /finding the Atlantis complaints amusing. "Can't do big pillages because of atlantis!" "I'm not getting rewarded fairly in atlantis!" It's like the answer stares at you but you can't see it. //agrees with Talisker, want pvp action, especially flag pvp incentives ///slashies ---------------------------------------- Hard and big guide to whack off Brigands How to make a pirate feel good |
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Fiddler
Joined: Mar 4, 2004 Posts: 4560 Status: Offline |
That's how I look at it, but I dare you to tell me with a straight face that that's how Astrolabe feels about the game. He's the kind of person I'd like to hear from, though the forum isn't the ideal way of reaching those people. ---------------------------------------- Orsino, Viridian ocean Forum-mute: your best friend
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Vetarnian
 Joined: May 20, 2007 Posts: 126 Status: Offline |
That one promises to make the game jump the shark. Already on Hunter, the OM's are using underhanded tactics to make foraging even more complicated, by opening the two closest foraging islands for colonization. Reaction of the Hunter community? "Any island opening is good for Hunter" and "Hooray, I'll be able to bid on sassafras and lorandite!" Not to mention that the usual-suspect flags just grab every new island as quickly as possible, so as to demonstrate that they "pwn". Every time I try to make an argument in favour of foraging, I am almost always met with contempt. The problem is that among most players, there seems to be a strong anti-foraging sentiment, which usually cites the few cases of players with a hundred alts or so who live in estates and float a couple of grand frigates every day. What they fail to take into account is that among all the various moneymaking schemes, foraging is perhaps the least elitist of them all, when compared to "elite" pillages and high-stakes poker games. And that if foraging is taken away (or significantly modified), the use for a labor badge will be almost nil. Expect a significant decrease both in shoppe wages (which no longer will have to compete with foraging; I suspect many of the heavy alt users will then rely on their own labour instead of hiring strangers, and frankly, who'd want to work at cost like those alts do?) and in demand for non-essential goods. I can't pinpoint a particular moment where PP jumped the shark (even though I thought the game was on the decline when it introduced Atlantis), but I would say that in the end what is going to kill it is the elitism that creeps up just about everywhere once you get below the surface. The political game involves only a few players belonging to influential flags, while the rest of us just watch as the usual suspects grab every island on the map. The answer to such complaints is usually "no free islands to noob flags", meaning "if you somehow take one, we'll grab it away from you, not because we want it, but because we can". Most of the player core -- even, I suspect, those in the lower segments of those powerful flags -- is shut out of that aspect of the game. Then you get "elite" pillages. I remember, when I started playing the game, that it took me almost two weeks of jobbing to get enough money for buying a sloop. I find it irritating that some people can do as much money in a single battle just because they're in better company than the rest of us and discriminate on the basis of performance -- you know, the "ultimates only" pillages. This is what, ultimately, will kill this game. ---------------------------------------- Vetarnian on Emerald, ex-Hunter. |
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Grinfish
Joined: May 24, 2004 Posts: 7938 Status: Offline |
Widening the player base to attract children and idio- I mean, the establishment of the doubloon payment system. ---------------------------------------- Whitewyvern. Distinctly Limey. Retired, No regrets. Now with occasional logging-in for purely social purposes.
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Aenor
Joined: Aug 16, 2005 Posts: 2796 Status: Offline |
This is the funny part, though. You don't need to be a very talented poker player to make hundreds of thousands of poe. All you need is to not limp with any two cards, understand pot odds, and not be so bored with all of your massive wealth that you call all-in bets on the river with nothing. It continues to amaze me that there are still so many horrible poker players on Puzzle Pirates and so few sharks. ---------------------------------------- Mat on the Meridian Ocean Thank you to everyone who loves Blacksmithing! |
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Siggy
Joined: Jun 7, 2004 Posts: 1238 Status: Offline |
Yea, except that once you start allowing 'non-elite' players then booty starts to drop. If elite pillages didn't discriminate based on ability, then it really isn't. Of course, the counterpoint is that if you're good enough for elite pillages (either by duty or nav) and your hearty connection is large enough to get you invited to them, then there really isn't much point in doing non-elite pillages. ---------------------------------------- Sig Owner: Sig Supply Network What happens when you beat whiny sword fighters with overpowered trash swords...
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kenjennings
Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 7497 Status: Offline |
You get flamed because your arguement is stupid. The management can use any "underhanded" tactics it can think of to rid the game of an obviously unintended result. Blockading and colonization is way above your little fruit picking operation on the hierarchy of 'stuff' in Y!PP. Get over it. ---------------------------------------- [removed by SOPA] |
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tanonev
Joined: Nov 18, 2006 Posts: 2311 Status: Offline |
I thought it was a given that people would rather blame the game for failing to continue to entertain them rather than admit that something has happened on their end (i.e., they've gotten bored)? ---------------------------------------- Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian. Puppetar by Tilinka |
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Vetarnian
Joined: May 20, 2007 Posts: 126 Status: Offline |
Actually, there used to be a time when I would just apply on random pillages, held by crews I knew nothing about, off the notice board. This I did despite having a healthy network of hearties, but I'd despise having to call it "noblesse oblige". Sometimes it was a waste of time, sometimes not, but I would hate it if all new bnavvers were forced to rely on sub-par jobbers because all the good ones only job through hearty invites. How could new bnavvers get better if they were forced to rely on greenie jobbers for manpower? (Hell, I know, I'm a lousy bnavver myself.) ---------------------------------------- Vetarnian on Emerald, ex-Hunter. ---------------------------------------- [Edit 2 times, last edit by Vetarnian at Jul 29, 2008 10:46:37 AM] |
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marundel
Joined: Jan 7, 2007 Posts: 2767 Status: Offline |
One of the royals in our flag sponsors an activity for flagmates he calls "Random Pillage Tuesday". Basically, he gathers up whoever is online in the flag on Tuesday evenings and they all "gang job" a random ship off the notice board. Fun for us, fun for the bnavver...depending on who is online, he/she gets between 3 to 15 dedicated jobbers who stay on the entire pillage. ---------------------------------------- Pizzahutpete on the Cerulean Ocean Monarch, Super Awesomeness SO, Boochin' Drunks Pizzahutpete everywhere, thanks to the merge |
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sweetnessc
Joined: Nov 10, 2004 Posts: 16095 Status: Offline |
1) Unlimited free game play. It seemed like a good move at the time, but in retrospect, it was the beginning of the end in terms of attracting the kind of kiddies that have to do free play because ma and pa refuse to pay for intarweb games, and of having giving those kinds of kiddies rewards they didn't earn become part of the game design goal. 2) The abandonment of rewarding skill, knowledge and effort as a game design objective. From foraging to Atlantis lotteries to experience trophies to autodivvy while at sea, nail nail nail in the plank of what made this game great. 3) The introduction of mass areas of solo play. You used to need people to spend much time in the game or to succeed at pretty much anything. Not so much any more. Though I think they felt the shark get a little nibble here, as some of the development is trending back the other way now. Hip hip hooray for Atlantis. I used to tell people that this was a great crucible for learning the kinds of leadership, interpersonal, management and conflict management skills that you could transfer into everyday life. That's no longer the case, because you no longer need those kinds of skills to do well here. That pretty much accounts for everything else, to be honest. ---------------------------------------- My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. ~ Jack Layton Sublime is shame. |
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marundel
Joined: Jan 7, 2007 Posts: 2767 Status: Offline |
Until you realize that a dozen of the folks that jobbed onto your ship are part of a conspiracy to laze on station in the hopes of sinking the frigate and getting a chance at an injury. ---------------------------------------- Pizzahutpete on the Cerulean Ocean Monarch, Super Awesomeness SO, Boochin' Drunks Pizzahutpete everywhere, thanks to the merge |
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