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mnteddy



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[old] I don't like Drinking Reply to this Post
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Anyone else feel the drinking games is completely random?


I was thinking it would be interesting to do something of a reversi clone, or at least allow for some strategy.
[Jul 30, 2003 12:00:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Re: [old] I don't like Drinking Reply to this Post
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There is strategy. You're doing it wrong.
[Jul 30, 2003 12:02:34 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Melmoth



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Random? Reply to this Post
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The drinking game is anything but random, and it's one of my favorite puzzles in the game thus far. Read the rules of the game. At first it felt random to me too, but there's a ton of strategy to be had in the game, particularly when more than 2 players are involved.
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Yar! Pirate pants!
[Jul 30, 2003 12:02:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://grassrootshell.org    dokt0rmel [Link]  Go to top 
Hanzii



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Re: [old] I don't like Drinking Reply to this Post
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The random factor grows with the number of players - but it IS a game of skill. Just ask the 7 intermediate players I whupped a few nights ago without breaking a sweat.
It's also one of my favourites and a this thread is a perfect opportunity to once again let loose the cry: More multiplayer and adversarial puzzles, please!
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Hanzii - shipbuilder (retired), Turtle
[Jul 30, 2003 12:18:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.lauring.net [Link]  Go to top 
Melmoth



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specifics... Reply to this Post
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I've only been playing a couple of days and I've worked more on my shipboard skills than on drinking, but drinking is easily my favorite puzzle. Here's my take on where you should be looking for strategy. I'll stick to the two-player version.

Stains

Stains are the color changes that result from placing drinks on the board. When a row is cleared, the points for that clearing are scored by the person who has the most stains in that row. You can do a lot to make it impossible for your opponent to take row-clearing scores by working the stains to maintain your control of the board.

Matching

Since drinks can only be placed adjacent to drinks which they match either in shape or color you can work to limit the options of your opponent. Create situations where the open spaces on the board are difficult to match and you can force your opponent to drink more frequently. Use the hook to open up the board to your advantage (ie to facilitate clearing rows you control).

That's two general strategies to follow in this puzzle. I'm sure more experienced players could give you a lot more. It's definitely not random, and if you learn the game's oddities, I think you'll find it's both fun and quite deep.
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Yar! Pirate pants!
[Jul 30, 2003 12:20:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://grassrootshell.org    dokt0rmel [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Re: [old] I don't like Drinking Reply to this Post
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The Matching is very important, and having three colors/shapes around a given square can certainly greatly increase the time it takes to fill that square, whether due to fries/chips (depends on whom you ask) or other rows being cleared. This can certainly buy you time to catch up, or effectively block another player . . .

. . . but too often, I've done it to myself. Often, it's better to drink up, rather than play a piece that blocks one of your rows, or clears one of theirs. Drinking is certainly an option when there are plenty of open spaces, so that you know you won't be forced to drink later. In the endgame, drinking is much riskier.

Another good rule is not gambling. Yes, you can still bet money, but in the two-player version, don't place the penultimate (next-to-last) piece in a row so that you and your opponent then have the same number of pieces in that row . . . the next person to get the right piece will get the whole row. There are exceptions (as when doing so also blocks likely completion), but in general doing so puts the game back in the hands of fiendish Lady Luck.
[Jul 30, 2003 12:41:21 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Rengor



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Re: [old] I don't like Drinking Reply to this Post
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I find that 2 of the scores are absolutely key to winning the game:

100 point bonus
If you take a row with the most drinks in it AND take it by placing on an unstained square you get an extra 100 in bonus for a total of 200 points. Placing the last drink on an already stained square is just a regular 100 points.
So I tend to focus heavily on getting such rows especially in the first half of the game and prevent my opponent from doing the same.

200 point bonus
When the very last unstained square is taken the player with the most stained squares gets a 200 point bonus. In my experience this bonus very often decides who wins the game.
Make sure that either you have the most at the end, or in a 3+ player game that the opponent with the lowest score have the most by placing on your nearest opponent's stained fields in those situations where it doesn't really matter where you place.
Personally I would like to see this bonus either gone or greatly reduced, especially in 3+ player games where 200 points is a large percentage of the total score.

Other tips
Whenever possible I tend to stick to the sides of the puzzle since Im less likely to get boxed in here.

Towards the end of the game the two rows that contains the last unstained square should be a priority to have the most drinks in. Remember that its 200 points for a row with an unstained field, that can often negate the 200 point end game bonus that your nearest opponent might get. Or it can mean that you take both bonuses for a total of 400 points!
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-= SilverBeard of The Mad Mutineers =-
--=== www.madmutineers.com ===--
[Jul 30, 2003 3:30:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Maurs



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Clone-ness Reply to this Post
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This game would be a lot more familiar if you've ever played Alchemy http://www.popcap.com/ . It is nearly identical, the only real difference is that it's multiplayer. Also, the bilge minigame is similar to another popcap game Diamond Mine (AKA Bejeweled).
[Jul 31, 2003 1:23:02 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Vgnight



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Re: [old] I don't like Drinking Reply to this Post
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i love alcemy that is such a fun game you can also play it on yahoo! games.
[Jul 31, 2003 8:23:47 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com    vgnight    vgnight [Link]  Go to top 
mnteddy



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Re: [old] I don't like Drinking Reply to this Post
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Wow!!

Thanks alot for the replies/tips guys. I'll have to look into a bit more closely then. It's a bit difficult to understand the strategy aspects of this particular game from the rules alone.
[Aug 1, 2003 4:36:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Squidbeard

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You think drinking's bad? Reply to this Post
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If you think the drinking game is hard to understand from the rules, just wait til someone introduces you to Chess!

Now there's a game I'm happy not to see...

--Sq
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Squid
High Priest, Cult of the Red Mantis
[Aug 1, 2003 5:57:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://looterati.goldfish.org [Link]  Go to top 
mnteddy



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Re: You think drinking's bad? Reply to this Post
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Squidbeard wrote: 
If you think the drinking game is hard to understand from the rules, just wait til someone introduces you to Chess!

Now there's a game I'm happy not to see...

--Sq



awww... are you sure you don't want to play for some loot?


I don't understand chess... honest...
[Aug 1, 2003 7:17:21 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Amigakid



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Endgame Reply to this Post
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I just discovered this tactic, although I'm sure other people know it. In a 2 player game, if your opponent passes out and you are in the lead, you can drink until you pass out and win. I don't think the bonus for most stains applies in this case, although I could be wrong. Confirm/deny?

Also, what's everybody's favorite opening (when you have the chips)? I usually play a corner, but i'm wondering if there's a better option.
[Mar 11, 2005 3:16:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Amigakid



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Endgame Reply to this Post
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I just discovered this tactic, although I'm sure other people know it. In a 2 player game, if your opponent passes out and you are in the lead, you can drink until you pass out and win. I don't think the bonus for most stains applies in this case, although I could be wrong. Confirm/deny?

Also, what's everybody's favorite opening (when you have the chips)? I usually play a corner, but i'm wondering if there's a better option.

EDIT: no "most stains" bonus if you all pass out.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Amigakid at Mar 11, 2005 3:22:59 AM]
[Mar 11, 2005 3:22:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Rmarsbar

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Re: [old] I don't like Drinking Reply to this Post
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not wanting to sound unmoved, but /e says "Diddums..."
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Rmarzbarr, a Superlemon!
[Mar 11, 2005 3:33:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Marziepants    Marziepants1    334439659 [Link]  Go to top 
shagie



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Re: [old] I don't like Drinking Reply to this Post
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You might find a better response to this in the Tips fourm. Additional, poking about in there, there is an excelent strategy guide that has been written http://www.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthread?p=159967
[Mar 11, 2005 3:33:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
silentwitnes



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Re: You think drinking's bad? Reply to this Post
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mnteddy wrote: 
Squidbeard wrote: 
If you think the drinking game is hard to understand from the rules, just wait til someone introduces you to Chess!

Now there's a game I'm happy not to see...

--Sq



awww... are you sure you don't want to play for some loot?


I don't understand chess... honest...


I really, really, really want some form of chess in YPP. That would sooo rock!
[Mar 11, 2005 3:39:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Xceptopec

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Re: [old] I don't like Drinking Reply to this Post
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My advice, try to control as many rows or columns as you can be having 4 stained squares (or at least 1 more than everyone else can get if there are more than 2 players)
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Captain Callam

Commander, The Children Of Odin
Prince - Forseti's Justice

Also - (The original) Cutter - (Azure) Ice, Midnight, Cobalt, Sage, Hunter.
[Mar 11, 2005 3:45:00 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
54x

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Re: [old] I don't like Drinking Reply to this Post
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Xceptopec wrote: 
My advice, try to control as many rows or columns as you can be having 4 stained squares (or at least 1 more than everyone else can get if there are more than 2 players)


Heheh. That's not quite enough, of course. Sometimes you need five pieces, as your opponent is in danger of clearing one of yours from the opposite direction. Part of the strategy is: "How do I get ahead in this row?" another part is: "How can I start a line that disrupts my opponent?" and finally the other is: "How can I maintain my advantage while clearing more of my own pieces than my opponents?" Balancing those three factors is more than enough to help eliminate the random factor, and make for quite a tricky puzzle to describe and teach- a lot of drinking will seem to be "intuition".
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Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
[Mar 11, 2005 3:51:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mjwhitehead.com/    raasike54    secondlight5454    32987700 [Link]  Go to top 
drc500free

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Re: You think drinking's bad? Reply to this Post
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silentwitnes wrote: 
mnteddy wrote: 
Squidbeard wrote: 
If you think the drinking game is hard to understand from the rules, just wait til someone introduces you to Chess!

Now there's a game I'm happy not to see...

--Sq



awww... are you sure you don't want to play for some loot?


I don't understand chess... honest...


I really, really, really want some form of chess in YPP. That would sooo rock!
There already is, but few people get to be blockade admirals. But there is the added fun that your pieces get distracted and go chasing cutters.
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-Darvid
sundancer wrote: 
will you please explain to me one more time why it would not be acceptable to blockade us?
Squid wrote: 
Because I shouldn't have to go through all that effort.

[Mar 11, 2005 3:51:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

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Re: [old] I don't like Drinking Reply to this Post
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I just discovered this tactic, although I'm sure other people know it. In a 2 player game, if your opponent passes out and you are in the lead, you can drink until you pass out and win. I don't think the bonus for most stains applies in this case, although I could be wrong. Confirm/deny?

Also, what's everybody's favorite opening (when you have the chips)? I usually play a corner, but i'm wondering if there's a better option.


Those in the "I play to win no matter what" camp support the use of drink-outs and corner starts.

Those in the "I play because I enjoy the game for the game, not for winning it" camp consider drink-outs and corner starts to largely ruin the game.


Corner starting makes the game substantially more luck based, as being forced to drink is much more likely, as the number of viable squares to play on is greatly reduced. RD has the stats somewhere, about winning slightly over 50% of games with a corner start, but for me, and many others, it takes all the fun and most of the skill out of the game.
[Mar 11, 2005 4:20:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shuranthae

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Re: [old] I don't like Drinking Reply to this Post
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Corner playing is like making an OCL Team start at exactly 15 minutes after or forfeit, no matter how close they are to being ready.
[Mar 11, 2005 5:06:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Heygabe

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Re: [old] I don't like Drinking Reply to this Post
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I didn't like carpentry for a long, long time. Then I found out that I was doing it wrong. Now I "Flip" the peices. Now I love carpentry. Peices actually go together. Yes!


Oops, I ment to write:

I hate carpentry. The peices don't go together. They're totally random. Make it more like Othello.
----------------------------------------
--Watching the Mad Professor from a distance
If we are steadfast in our resolve to have fun, then fun we will have.
[Mar 11, 2005 5:18:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SeattleBrian

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Re: [old] I don't like Drinking Reply to this Post
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Shuranthae wrote: 
Corner playing is like making an OCL Team start at exactly 15 minutes after or forfeit, no matter how close they are to being ready.


I disagree, I think thats like drinking out. Technically winning by the rules, but not really fair.

Corner playing is like forming an OCL team of people from outside your crew.
[Mar 11, 2005 5:28:02 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shuranthae

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Re: [old] I don't like Drinking Reply to this Post
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Nope, there's hardly anything unsporting about picking teams without discriminating by crews. The making people start at exactly 15 after, which technically in the rules, is considered unsporting by pretty much all.
[Mar 11, 2005 5:34:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SeattleBrian

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Re: [old] I don't like Drinking Reply to this Post
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Shuranthae wrote: 
Nope, there's hardly anything unsporting about picking teams without discriminating by crews. The making people start at exactly 15 after, which technically in the rules, is considered unsporting by pretty much all.


You are proving my point. Drinking out is considered upsporting by pretty much all. But corner starting is considered a strategy by some, and acceptable by many. Which is the same as an OCL team of people from many different flags and crews (a strategy to some, and acceptable to many).
[Mar 11, 2005 5:38:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shuranthae

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Um, more people have an issue with corner starting than drinking out (particularly late drink outs). Your analogy just doesn't fit, simply saying it does isn't enough.
[Mar 11, 2005 5:42:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SeattleBrian

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Shuranthae wrote: 
Um, more people have an issue with corner starting than drinking out (particularly late drink outs). Your analogy just doesn't fit, simply saying it does isn't enough.


I can count the number of people who think corner starts are cheap on one hand. Every person I know thinks drink outs are a cheap way to win.
[Mar 11, 2005 5:45:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Heygabe

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Re: [old] I don't like Drinking Reply to this Post
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SeattleBrian wrote: 
Shuranthae wrote: 
Um, more people have an issue with corner starting than drinking out (particularly late drink outs). Your analogy just doesn't fit, simply saying it does isn't enough.


I can count the number of people who think corner starts are cheap on one hand. Every person I know thinks drink outs are a cheap way to win.


You have a lot of fingers on that hand, ehy?
----------------------------------------
--Watching the Mad Professor from a distance
If we are steadfast in our resolve to have fun, then fun we will have.
[Mar 11, 2005 5:46:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SeattleBrian

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Re: [old] I don't like Drinking Reply to this Post
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nope just 5, and I don't need them all
[Mar 11, 2005 5:46:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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