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Forums » List all forums » Forum: Tips & Tricks, Questions & Answers » Thread: Doubloon Economics |
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Thread Status: Normal Total posts in this thread: 43
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muddler224
 Joined: Apr 8, 2007 Posts: 6 Status: Offline |
Fact:On dub oceans the tax rate ,requiring people to pay dubs, often exceeds the cost of the item it is taxed on. With this system poorer players cannot acquire any items besides the most basic ones. Suggestion #1:Why not regulate the prices of dubs in trading so that poor people can more easily afford things. This system is at an advantage because more dubs are spent increasing the economy's flow and meaning greater profit for the Ringers. Suggestion #2:Lower the price of dubs by a few cents and announce it on ALL oceans. this should increase the profits also (via advertisement) Suggestion #3:Try to reduce inflation rates in dub trading. the higher the price goes the less trade happens and while this does not affect who is buying the dubs from the Ringers it affects who is actually spending the dub. Suggestion #4: finally, eliminate banks or change them so they store Poe to prevent them from turning into gambling halls... Please correct if wrong section ---------------------------------------- -- 90% of teens today would die if Myspace or Facebook had a system failure and was destroyed. If you are one of the 10% that would die laughing, copy and paste this into your signature. |
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Dylan
Joined: Jul 21, 2003 Posts: 7456 Status: Offline |
You see to misunderstand how green/doubloon oceans work. Instead of paying 10 bucks a month to subscribe (or whatever longer term lower amount), you pay for what you want with a combination of PoE (which circulate in the economy) and Doubloons (which get sunk, but can also be traded or even gifted). ---------------------------------------- http://tinyurl.com/delft2010 register mates! |
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muddler224
Joined: Apr 8, 2007 Posts: 6 Status: Offline |
but whatever happens when the price of doubloons goes so high as to unbalance the market (and i still think banks are gambling halls) ---------------------------------------- -- 90% of teens today would die if Myspace or Facebook had a system failure and was destroyed. If you are one of the 10% that would die laughing, copy and paste this into your signature. |
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scm621
Joined: Mar 25, 2007 Posts: 1349 Status: Offline |
Define "balanced". What makes the market balanced? At what point is the price for doubloons such that the market is unbalanced? The answer, from a...well, mostly correct perspective is "the market becomes unbalanced when the prices of doubloons are manipulated by an outside force to intentionally and artificially raise or lower their price." Since this hasn't happened, I'd say the market is balanced. You think they're too expensive, well then do something about it--put your money where your mouth is, spend real money on the game to buy doubs and sell them. ---------------------------------------- Searmin of the Midnight Ocean Currently unaffiliated |
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Crunchtime
Joined: Oct 27, 2007 Posts: 45 Status: Offline |
I agree and disgree, to an extent. Disagree, mostly. The dubloon mechanic is in place to allow poeple to just play the games they want instead of spending full price for things they wont use, like parlor games or labor puzzles. To make the point that rising dubloon prices hurt the poor people, is true. It's inflation in a sense. That's what happens. The poor people then, to get the things they want have to make more money. Novel idea, I know. Save up for 5 dubs, get a sea monster badge and go to Atlantis. The part where I agree to an extent is the supply and demand situation of dubloons, and therefore PP. People are buying more dubloons in game then on their credit card, so the price is going up due to demand being greater than supply. Simple economics. The problem is, is that if people stop coming to the game or the new joiners slow down or stop, the lack of an influx of money to the game will kill supply, and thus raise dubloons to an astronomical price. This is still very likely a long, long ways off, however, and not something we really need to worry about. Go make more PoE and buy the stuff you want! ---------------------------------------- It's Crunchtime! ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Crunchtime at Jun 25, 2008 3:33:18 PM] |
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nightmarexxx
Joined: Jul 5, 2006 Posts: 5 Status: Offline |
The problem is that people are greedy and believe they should get just as much and likely more, than what everyone else is for selling dubs. And others do not want to waste their real money and sell a crap load of dubs at a cheap price, wich is a serious gamble. |
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Dylan
Joined: Jul 21, 2003 Posts: 7456 Status: Offline |
There is no gamble. Want to buy or sell doubloons RIGHT NOW? You can do so. It will be cheaper (either way) to put in a bid which can realistically be filled in 24 hours. Don't keep your eggs in one basket and all that. ---------------------------------------- http://tinyurl.com/delft2010 register mates! |
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SirCarl67
Joined: Feb 5, 2006 Posts: 1278 Status: Offline |
If market price for dubloons is self balancing, if the cost of dubloons goes sky high more people will not have the poe to buy the items they want and will therefore buy dubloons with real cash. Others, knowing this is likely to happen will sell the dubloons they have obtained at lower prices, and/or buy dubloons with real cash to sell for poe. (Possibly wanting to turn back to dubloons when the price goes down). As the average wealth of pirates increases so does the dubloon price. I can see that this can mean that new pirates take longer to be able to pay the dubloon price for items than older pirates did when they were greenies and dubloons were cheaper than they are today (though there have been times when dubloons were much higher). Making dubloons "cheaper" does not work, ewither itr will adversly affect OOO finances (such as lowering the price of dubs in cash) or it will wreck the in game economy (if you have a cap of say 1000 poe for a dubloon you will not be able to buy dubloons unless you are very quick when one is put up for sale as a lot more people want to buy at that price than sell) The only solution I can see (if it is perceived as a problem by OOO)) is to have a greater range in the dubloon cost of items. For example reduce the cost of a short sword to 2 dubs but increase the cost of a falchion to 10. At the moment a high earning falchion using pirate pays on average a dub every 13 login days for his sword (7 dubs every 90 days) while the newer pirate trying to improve on his foil with a short sword has to pay a dubloon every 10 login days. Similarly some clothes could have very high dubloon costs to be the preserve of the rich, maybe pay twice the dubloon cost on citems using black or gold cloth but lower the dubloons required for the mid range items. To prevent stocking up this would need to be unannounced (they could put it on ice anyway). It would also require a great deal of effort to get the balance right. ---------------------------------------- If you can keep your head when all around you are losing their's you may have seriously underestimated the severity of the situation |
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Crunchtime
Joined: Oct 27, 2007 Posts: 45 Status: Offline |
Too much money in the game causes too many dubs to be bought which increases the cost of a dub. Theoretically, dub costs should eventually become expensive enough that dub buying slows, allowing supply to catch up. Also if you're paying 2500 for dubs, that's a lot less poe in everyone's pocket and the prices should start to reverse. However, the OPs message was that it was becoming more difficult for the poor to buy the things they want. So I say this: If you can afford the price of internet to play, you can afford the $2.95 for 12 dubs (which, consequently, are worth more poe now). If not, pilly more. One good afternoon of pillying will still pay your pirate's badge for the month, everything after that is profit and toy spending money. I mean, what is it that the poor people want to buy? Swords? Don't need em. Clothes? Rich people stuff and a waste of money. A house? You get a free one. A boat? Everyone has to save up for one of those. Furniture? Laughable. Be glad that there's a game mechanic that lets you play for free if you play enough, and that it's not solely subscription. ---------------------------------------- It's Crunchtime! |
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diskdude200
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regulating dub prices wouldnt sell mroe dubs becouse people arent goanna pay 20 dollars to get 20k of poe high dub price = more selling of dubs = they get paid more |
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LeRoy82
Joined: Nov 22, 2006 Posts: 180 Status: Offline |
I somewhatly agree but disagree... I hate buying dubs at such a high price, but its true... the economy is based off of this and you just can't change it unless you work more on items then the actual dub vs poe limit... As for up and down on login time, well, I think it should not change... they have good ware time... I do agree that some items should replace dub cost for poe cost... 4k poe boots is alittle much.... I just had a brain storm... Its our fault its so high, so why should they change it and come out of their own pockets? If we want it to be lower... then we should stop playing it like its a free ocean and start buying and selling dubs... Its so high because few are selling at a lower price... Buy into the market(spend real and sell ingame)... The more ppl that are selling and willing to get poe now will force the market down, if the higher bidders don't sell now it may take months or even years to sell them... :D These are but aren't free oceans... A collegue and I are in the prosses of making a dub based game well dif game(space and land), but are thinking about using the dub idea aswell... It all makes perfect since... If you want lower dub prices then make them lower yourself(pirates)... I do believe that some things should change like; pay more poe and less dubs for items, but don't mess with the current setup for the dub market... ---------------------------------------- "LeRoy82, is best known for leading Off Topic 7/10 times in his threads and/or posts..." Well, you didn't have to put it like that. :/ ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by LeRoy82 at Jun 25, 2008 9:50:00 PM] |
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LeRoy82
Joined: Nov 22, 2006 Posts: 180 Status: Offline |
good point... :D ---------------------------------------- "LeRoy82, is best known for leading Off Topic 7/10 times in his threads and/or posts..." Well, you didn't have to put it like that. :/ |
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Sanchosavage
Joined: Apr 2, 2008 Posts: 86 Status: Offline |
I also agree that dub prices on some items should be changed, but I like the high cost of dubs in-game. When I came to Hunter 3 months ago, dubs were in and around 930poe. A new ocean opened up and dub prices rose to around 1300poe. Around 25% more poe for a dub. At the same time, as the dubs were rising in price, the American Dollar was dropping against the Euro. I decided to purchase some dubs - 240 for only 32euros! A night out here costs around 100euros, A PC game costs 60, so 32 is a small price to pay for such a good game. Buying and selling 100-200 dubs while you are off doing other things is a great way of making some cash. I would like to see some changes made for those that can't buy dubs (for whatever reasons), so they can afford better things early on in the game. |
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Mcgee5
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And many players doing exactly this will be driving prices up further. That extra poe that is 'made' comes from somewhere. ---------------------------------------- Mcgee on Hunter Current forum account: Unmcgee ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Mcgee5 at Jun 27, 2008 4:43:38 PM] |
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fanta
Joined: May 30, 2004 Posts: 5551 Status: Offline |
Erm... no. Exactly the other way around. More supply of doubloons being offered will lower what they will cost in poe. More supply drives prices down, low supply drives prices up. ---------------------------------------- Pleun, First Mate of Monkey Militia, TO in Carpe Noctem, Midnight ocean, owner of the Dainty Dolphin and the Mystical Dragon. Avatar made from artwork by Kagaya |
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Dylan
Joined: Jul 21, 2003 Posts: 7456 Status: Offline |
No to the first part, agreed, just wanting to point out that the extra poe that can be made by playing the doubloon market comes from those who want to buy or sell "right now". Note that you can also lose poe by playing the doubloon market. ---------------------------------------- http://tinyurl.com/delft2010 register mates! ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Dylan at Jun 27, 2008 4:59:22 PM] |
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Sagacious
Joined: Mar 6, 2006 Posts: 3548 Status: Offline |
It's very easy to lose the will to live on that market. ---------------------------------------- Malachite & Midnight |
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boboiscool
Joined: Dec 13, 2007 Posts: 8 Status: Offline |
I like the Bank Idea... I always wanted to store my PoE there... Never could figure out why. I also do not like the set dubloon price on everything. It makes it way too hard to purchase items. /%50 Support |
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Patato6
 Joined: Aug 23, 2007 Posts: 155 Status: Offline |
Can you clarify the bolded part for me? I can't understand what your trying to say... ---------------------------------------- ... Needs 10 dubloons to make a crew. ___________________________ They say po-tay-to, you say po-tah-to, I say patato. |
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Siggy
Joined: Jun 7, 2004 Posts: 679 Status: Offline |
Ok, here's the rub. Dub prices have not changed since they were introduced into Viridian many a moon ago. Each dub is still worth 20-25 US cents. Using dubs is essentially how the players on dub oceans pay their subscription. Three Rings gains nothing by magicing up dubs. ---------------------------------------- Sig Unless explicitly stated otherwise, all posts reflect the views of the poster only and not necessarily the views of any affiliated crews or flags. |
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Sagacious
Joined: Mar 6, 2006 Posts: 3548 Status: Offline |
The other logic is, Three Rings doesn't make any money from doubloons until they are spent in a doubloon sink. You can buy as many doubloons with real money as you like - but OOO don't make anything until they are taken back out of the system. The doubloons in the global purses of players are effectively in escrow. The same logic applies to casinos. You can buy $$$'s of chips from the casino, but they only profit from the chips which are taken by the tables. The only difference is, Three Rings don't let you cash in your doubloons. The value of a doubloon does not change from the perspective of Three Rings, nor should it from a player's. The PoE trading price of a doubloon does not change how much it is worth. 5 doubloons will always buy you a Labor badge. PoE trading prices are a fake added value to doubloons and should be ignored. ---------------------------------------- Malachite & Midnight ---------------------------------------- [Edit 3 times, last edit by Sagacious at Jun 27, 2008 9:47:10 PM] |
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basso
Joined: Mar 19, 2006 Posts: 3093 Status: Offline |
If you only buy dubs from the exchange, the poe trading price of a dub certainly changes their value. In fact, dubs should only be view from their poe value, since the cash value remains stable. Dubs at 1200 certainly lead to differently priced goods then dubs at 700. ---------------------------------------- Montage of Sage
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calorifere
Joined: Oct 22, 2004 Posts: 418 Status: Offline |
Look at it that way. If an article of clothing costs 2000 poe and 3 doubs, then it costs 2000 poe and $0.75. Being able to exchange 3600 poe for that $0.75 is just a bonus. In my humble opinion, it is the fact that people are willing to give real money in exchange for fake make-believe money that is an aberration, not the fact that it costs 1200 poe to buy $0.25 of real money. I am certainly willing to take advantage of that aberration, but it would never cross my mind to complain about the amount of fake stuff I would have to give to get the real thing. ---------------------------------------- Hatchetback Senior Officer of Fifth Fist of th'Misfits |
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Sanchosavage
Joined: Apr 2, 2008 Posts: 86 Status: Offline |
I'm not sure about that. When I buy dubs, OOO withdraw the cash straight away, so they make cash whether I use them or not. A Casino can be much the same - If I buy chips and don't use them, the casino makes cash. On the other hand, winning in a casino will cost them cash - unlike Puzzle Pirates where no real cash is returned. I can't see why dubs would have to be used before OOO make cash. They already have the cash from the sale. |
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chupchup
Joined: Aug 4, 2006 Posts: 1171 Status: Offline |
You are on the right track here. When people talk about the "price of doubloons," they are actually referring to the relative worth of pieces of eight on the doubloon market. Since a doubloon has a fixed price measured in US Dollars (reducible somewhat by volume buying,) it's actually the price of PoE which fluctuates due to market forces. ----------------------------------------
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damagon
Joined: Oct 20, 2005 Posts: 4023 Status: Offline |
IMHO, the doub exchange should remain exactly the same ( I think the system is wonderful). The price of doubs (in USD) should remain the same. However, I do feel the amount of doubs required for certains items should be rebalanced. Specially if we consider all the new items, services, challenges (that require doubs) that have made it into the game in the last three years. Three years ago you could afford much, much more than what you can afford now with the same amount of doubs (money). And as a long time doub player, it feels as if I had been hit in the gut. Where's the love? Note that I'm not trying to compare the doub model with sub model, so refrain from mentioning the sub model. ---------------------------------------- Damagon ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by damagon at Jun 28, 2008 1:16:21 AM] |
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fanta
Joined: May 30, 2004 Posts: 5551 Status: Offline |
Then buy some doubloons with cash yourself or move to a subscription ocean and pay for a subscription (or not, but you will be limited in what you can do). ---------------------------------------- Pleun, First Mate of Monkey Militia, TO in Carpe Noctem, Midnight ocean, owner of the Dainty Dolphin and the Mystical Dragon. Avatar made from artwork by Kagaya ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by fanta at Jun 28, 2008 2:24:10 AM] |
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Mcgee5
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Original quote said buying and selling. If someone puts buy offer for large amount of doubloons, it will count as increased demand, driving prices up. Admittedly, him then selling those same doubloons will then increase supply too, except that that increased supply will be at price decided by that same person, and presumably he wants profit. If we are talking about single person buying 1 or 10 doubloons that doesn't make difference, if amount is in many hundreds or even thousands, everyone else who wants doubloons soon will need to adjust their offer too. And certainly someone could put up offer to sell doubloons with much lower price, but why would you sell your doubloons much cheaper than what you can get? Someone playing doubloon market for profit doesn't generate any new doubloons, and if you can throw enough poe at it, you will be able to control prices to some extent. Certainly control would be only temporary, but that probably is enough since many doubloon buyers need or want those doubloons soon. If all buyers were enlightened about prices, everyone would job in ocean with cheapest doubloon (Malachite) and buy their doubloons there, equalizing doubloon prices between all oceans. I repeat, profit gotten from playing doubloon market doesn't magically appear from nowhere. That money comes from somewhere. Like someone else already pointed out, failing to make profits on market tends to eliminate those who can't make profit, and that leaves buyer paying for profits that successful traders gather. As a bonus, players buying doubloons with real money get to enjoy higher profits too. Eventually high doubloon prices may get more people to buy them with real money, or job in other oceans and buy them there, increasing supply and driving demand down in our original ocean. Until that happens, however, successful doubloon traders will be able to gather profits that they can invest back to their operation, making their influence even greater. ---------------------------------------- Mcgee on Hunter Current forum account: Unmcgee ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Mcgee5 at Jun 28, 2008 7:45:21 AM] |
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Sagacious
Joined: Mar 6, 2006 Posts: 3548 Status: Offline |
I would hazard a guess that there will always be a large flow of doubloons entering the system - more than there will be leaving it. The price that doubloons are traded for on the doubloon exchange is not really controlled by the number of doubloons there are around. It's controlled by demand for conversion. If a new release appears and it requires a lot of doubloons - then the trade price will increase. If a new release appears and it requires lots of PoE, the doubloon trade price will fall. When a new doubloon ocean is released, the trading price of doubloons on other oceans would increase slightly - where players try to buy more doubloons to use elsewhere. One of the I guess nicer side effects of a doubloon exchange system is the ability to never have part with a single cent and still be able to play the game. But you should not complain that you're being forced to pay more PoE than everyone else and that this should be regulated. You've chosen not to pay for the benefit of being given doubloons for almost no effort, and therefore you will instead be made to work harder to obtain your doubloons. Compare it to a website with advertising. You could pay them $10 and enjoy ad-free access to their website, or you could still obtain all the benefits of the website without paying- but you're going to have to live with the adverts. Think of those adverts as the PoE you end up paying to obtain your doubloons. You can't complain - because you chose not to pay. We all know Three Rings values all players, but I don't think they'd be prepared to intervene with the doubloon exchange system for the benefit of those who choose not to pay them for the game, unless the "freelooners" were gaining some kind of major advantage over those who pay for their doubloons, which judging by the complaints we see on the forums, they're not. ---------------------------------------- Malachite & Midnight ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Sagacious at Jun 28, 2008 8:21:56 AM] |
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Mystrelia
Joined: Apr 27, 2008 Posts: 156 Status: Offline |
I really, really, really think the delivery fee (doubloon cost) on many items should be lowered so I can afford to dress my pirate in spiffy clothes and have a completely awesome sword and bludgeon and deck out my house with fine furnishings! :D Other than that, there's no real reason for delivery fees to decrease. Way too many people put value on looks, as in they want their pirate decked out in finery, they want this, they want that, they want, they want, they want (hmm, kinda makes me think of Captain Hook in the movie "Hook"). In reality, though, it isn't extremely difficult to make the money to buy doubloons. I've only been playing for short of two months. A few days after I started playing I told my daughter (who also loves the game) that we should start saving so we could buy our own ship. By the first of May, we had enough between us to buy a Sloop. Here it is not quite two months later and we just bought a Baglah. We also each currently have two pirates doing full labor in shop jobs, which means two labor badges for each of us every month, not to mention the captain's badge she needs in order to pillage on our own vessels. I bought a wardrobe and house (on Barracuda just because Saltstraum is so over-crowded) in which we store any extra clothing we happen to collect. Sure, we're still running around in rags (my Navy clothes dusted a couple of days ago) but now that we have the investment in our ships we'll turn to making money for other things. And we did all that without spending any real money on doubloons (although now that we're getting some financial stuff straightened out we will be buying a few doubloons occasionally). Indeed, I'd love it if some of the delivery fees were re-calculated and fixed, but in the end, the game is playable without spending much time worrying about the price of doubloons. |
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