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Valkor



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Banking System Reply to this Post
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I am sure that many people have the exact same problem. I have half of my money on Guava, the other half on Turtle. There is no way to combine my finances, and no way to put all of my money from now on in one, since my flag is also devided between the two, so half me pillagin be made in one archipeligo, the other half on another. See the problem?

All I am saying is that you should be able to carry your money with you on navy ships and on ferries. If a perfectly logical reason has been made why this is impossible, I woudl like to hear it.
[Jul 27, 2003 8:51:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
crowsdiamond

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Methinks the simplified version of the entire thing was that nobody were riskin their poe on the oceans. Basically, they want ye ta carry it on ye, so that I can come and collect it. (Well, ok, maybe not me, but perhaps Barrnemore, Kendric, Garf, Razzle, Uzi, Penn.... you get the idea, eh?)

(psst, Valkor, seein as ye be a matey, I'll let ye keep yer poe, eh?)
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~Faile
Once Captain of the Mighty PPA
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by crowsdiamond at Jul 27, 2003 9:53:03 AM]
[Jul 27, 2003 9:53:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Crowsdiamond [Link]  Go to top 
Cleaver
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Valkor wrote: 
All I am saying is that you should be able to carry your money with you on navy ships and on ferries. If a perfectly logical reason has been made why this is impossible, I woudl like to hear it.

It's not impossible. It used to be possible to whisk yer money around all over. The reason we went to the trouble of implementing the complicated money burying etc. is that we want people to have to ship their money on a boat, and put it at risk. A Pirate game where everyone whisks their money about (which they could do with your Navy/Ferry proposal) is a Pirate game where nobody ever risks their money. Which doesn't sound very piratey to me.

What we are planning is that Banks will be able to set up transfer arrangements with each other, giving the Managers the problem of shipping the funds around. This is on the List.
[Jul 27, 2003 9:53:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
Rengor



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Why doesn't someone or a crew make a banking service.
Get some money on the bigger islands and offer to swap for a fee, the smaller the island the bigger the fee.
If I wasn't busy as it is I'd do that myself since it's easy and good money, and a fine service to pirates as well.
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[Jul 27, 2003 10:23:21 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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I've been trying to do this for a while, but haven't had enough organization to rake in the cash. I know Rifkind has funds everywhere, but that would add immensely to her number of /tells.
[Jul 27, 2003 11:58:25 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
muffy



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aye Reply to this Post
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It already has - I spend half me time helpin' people out with funds, it seems.
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[Jul 27, 2003 12:01:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Cedric

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We've done a far amount ourselves in the YJs, but it is rather troublesome.

The transfer thing between foreign banks would be quite cool, and it'd be easy to put a bit of risk into it, and add another "piratey" thing to the game. Instead of making it instant like the normal bank transfers are, make it delayed in "shipments" that would leave on a "Silver Train" (Or a Doubloon Train if you like..)

You'd walk into a bank and request that XXXXX poe be moved from Alpha to Guava. Now the bank would be set up to either ship after X minutes or after X amount of poe was waiting to be shipped off. I'd envision something like 10000 or once an hour, you could also suppliment with some fake or "NPP" money that'd be a percentage of how much business the bank or island as a whole it doing, so larger islands would have a bigger shipment than a smaller one

The ship itself would be "elite" (Hard to catch, and filled with nicely armed and proficient guards) so that only the better crews would be able to defeat them. 7 People on a quick sloop might be able to catch them, but they'd be hard pressed to beat them. If they happen to defeat the guards, then they'd get a hefty percentage of the cargo.

When the player gets to Guava, they'd go to the bank and take delivery of their money like we do with our orders now. If the transport got hit by pirates, they'd have a notice saying "You lost 30% of your shipment due to piracy!"

It would do 3 things:

1) Offer another reason to Pillage, especially to the more experienced crews who would like a jucier and more challenging target than a shipfull of Brigands.
2) Allow the movement of money between population centers yet maintain risk
3) Give the bank owners something else to do. They'd of course charge a fee for the movement. They could perhaps even decide how much money to spend on the crew shipping the money, using a weaker crew would give the bank more profit, but increase risk, and so on.

It might stop what few crews might actually be moving money now, but even then its sort of a guessing game as to who might have cash on board. Honestly, few crews are going to bother making a trip to move people's money anyway, and I think the above would be preferrable to an artificial player ran thing like we have now.

If more player involvement is wanted, you could give the bank the ability to "hire" a player crew or a ship to make the transfer. They'd get paid so much to do it (and of course get none if they get pillaged.) The bank owners could maintain an "allowed" list of crews or officers who are allowed to pick up the shipments (only people they know are competent) and if none of them pick it up after so long, it'd go out on the NPP ship as described above.

They wouldn't actually have access to the money, it'd be a lock box in the hold, and if they fail to make it after a certain amount of time, it could either get reset, or counted as "Lost at sea" and be treated like getting pillaged. The ship would sail under a special flag or wear a special medallion to alert others that they're carrying the money shipment as long as the box is on board.


The player element might be overly complex but could be great fun. I could envision a daily gauntlet between the crews and greedy pirates ready to set upon them and steal it away. I know its not something that could be added easily, but down the road, it would ne quite awesome, IMHO.

And, if something like this was on the List, feel free to slap me, here or ingame.
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[Jul 27, 2003 3:30:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Maverick1701 [Link]  Go to top 
Gotagota

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[size=18]SLAP!!

Oh, sorry, I'm a bit slaphappy I think. Actually I think is a wonderful idea. Give us people after an impossible challenge something to strive for! I mean, since nobody's willing to try and take on the black ship with me...
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[Jul 27, 2003 5:10:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
garf



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Cleaver wrote: 
What we are planning is that Banks will be able to set up transfer arrangements with each other, giving the Managers the problem of shipping the funds around. This is on the List.


the problem i see with this is that it very much concentrates the "money on player ships" on very few vessels.

i mean, the plan to add "risk" to money movment is not a thing fer itself, but thought to be a way to encourage pvp, aye?

but considering that there will be maybe one ship per some hours between alpha and turtle that carries a significiant amount of poe, i cannot see that being an incentive to more pvp. chances are jest too slim.

the problem with clearly distinguished money transport ships would likely be that there would be a lot of people "camping" fer it, and it probably wont be sailing often enough to satisfy everyone who wants to try that golden galleon.
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[Jul 27, 2003 10:38:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    garf+on+aim [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Aye, but if such a thing did exist, people could still carry their money themselves in the present fashion.

I would not want the launch of the ship to be automatic, and I'd rather see it NPP-run, with their cost covered by the bank managers. Something in the manager interface could say how much money is awaiting transfer to each island, and push a button to launch an NPP ship to the specified island in the other archipelago . . . camping for them 24/7 would be a thankless job, especially if they sailed under that island's navy flag (so they wouldn't necessarily be known ships).

It would violate all the rules we have so far, but what if people whose money is on the bank ship could get a message saying it was in danger, and be able to board in sea battle (pre-swordfight)? If they lost, they unsuccessfully defended their money and the ship pays out at the current rate (adjusted for hands aboard, yes?), but if they won, the bank kept the profits.
[Jul 28, 2003 12:01:20 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Cleaver
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The way bank transfers will work is as follows; the managers set up slush accounts in banks that they wish to transfer money with. Players transfers move money in and out of these slush accounts. The managers can track them from a handy interface and thereby notice if their slush fund on blah is running low. Most of the time they will probably be in balance, but sometimes things will skew and the manager will need to ship a body of money down to the island in question. The transfer fees (remember that without a money flow imbalance the slush fund won't need a lot of topping up, but the transfer revenue will continue to flow) will cover this risk. Besides it'll give the managers something to do to earn their lucre.

I guess it's debatable whether it's worth all this hassle to prevent players from just whisking funds, as has been mooted on other threads. I remain pretty keen on money having to be shipped at sea in the context of transfer like this, but I agree that without it it's a pain.
[Jul 28, 2003 3:13:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
Cedric

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We might be going about it backwards. The originating bank is actually losing business, since the money is leaving them; so it doesn't make much sense for them to be the one's sending the shipments.

Perhaps the recieving bank would be the originators of the shipment. The sending bank would notify the recieving that Pirate X is sending so much poe to their bank, and it would be set aside. The recieving bank would then pay out as soon as the customer likes form their cash reserves, a "loan" of sorts until the cash is shipped down. They would of course withhold a transfer fee, say 10-15% of the money. Thus, on a shipment of 10000, they'd only pay out 8500 or so, and have a 1500 poe profit when the shipment comes in (of course, I just made up the numbers, someone smarter than I should set the ratios for fairness/risk)

Then the recieving bank could look and see how much they have waiting at Bank X, and when they feel they want to retrieve their money, they commission the transport (still an elite ship of course, to be challenging) and the money would head their way.

Should pirates defeat the "Golden Galleon" they'd recieve a cut of the shipment, a bit more than what the bank was going to make, so the bank only really "loses" a margin of cash (so they'd get 7500 from the shipment instead of 10000, but would have only lost 1000 poe, since they only paid out 8500 to the customers)

The bank would also receve notice of who pillaged their shipment, so they could seek "repayment" through other methods. :)


Some way to give pirates a general idea of when they should look for the shipment would be good, but that would be hard to implement without cusing camping.
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[Jul 28, 2003 3:13:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Maverick1701 [Link]  Go to top 
Cedric

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Cool Cleaver, sounds pretty close to what I was thinking, though I'm not sure why you'd need to bother up setting up a fund in a foreign bank.

Now I feel silly for wasting my time typing it out. Always way ahead of us :)
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[Jul 28, 2003 3:21:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Maverick1701 [Link]  Go to top 
Hanzii



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I like Cleavers idea and would like to see this and the other PvP centric ideas tested before the cries of 'nerf PvP' goes up.

It has been stated from the start, that this would be a PvP game, and it's a credit to the Ringers, that they wanted to make a lot of stuff work before even beginning to implement PvP.

This banking idea first of all makes running a bank interesting (before it looked like the most boring shoppe to run together with the market) - and it'll be fun together with the notirety system. I'm sure a bank manager wouldn't just hire anybody to job on the 'money ship'.
Not to mention once the multi-ship seabattles comes along - can you say convoy?

Yarr!
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[Jul 28, 2003 4:05:11 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.lauring.net [Link]  Go to top 
stevoid



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Cedric wrote: 
I'm not sure why you'd need to bother up setting up a fund in a foreign bank.


Because otherwise you couldn't transfer money...if I am taking 100 poe from you at Epsilon and giving you 100 poe minus fee at Alpha, I need to have that money at Alpha already; just now by taking it out of my own bank account in person each time, but if you have the slush fund it's automated.
[Jul 28, 2003 4:48:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Cedric

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stevoid wrote: 
Because otherwise you couldn't transfer money...if I am taking 100 poe from you at Epsilon and giving you 100 poe minus fee at Alpha, I need to have that money at Alpha already; just now by taking it out of my own bank account in person each time, but if you have the slush fund it's automated.



Oh, I was thinking backwards, makes sense now. It won't create quite as much risk as the trasnport idea, but I reckon it'd be more managable.


I'd still like to see some sort of elite "golden galleon" in the game some how, ye can't have a pirate game without rich ships to pillage Guess we can still hunt player merchants moving goods :)
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[Jul 28, 2003 5:52:39 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Maverick1701 [Link]  Go to top 
Cleaver
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I'd still like to see some sort of elite "golden galleon" in the game some how, ye can't have a pirate game without rich ships to pillage Guess we can still hunt player merchants moving goods :)

With proper bank transfers as outlined this is about the only kind of money movement you would see; giant settlements between islands and colonisation ships.
[Jul 28, 2003 7:15:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
Penndalla

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Arr, Cleaver, I know ye once talked of a chance of havin' ye buried money dug up. Rifkind and her sort (no offense, well not much offense intended) be ruinin' ye poe in the wind scheme. Put thar a 10% per day chance that ye lose 1% to 100% of ye buried poe to shovel-totin' seadogs. Then ye won't see her gladly running a charity service that leaves her queen of the buried hoards of treasure on e'ery isle! (Alas, the pains I suffer fer the benefit of me fellow man!) It be of no count to reckon that she no' be havin' to transport poe now to skeleton-hunt or trade, aye?
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[Jul 28, 2003 7:53:25 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/Pennsuedo/?start=all [Link]  Go to top 
saynata

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Penndalla wrote: 
Arr, Cleaver, I know ye once talked of a chance of havin' ye buried money dug up. Rifkind and her sort (no offense, well not much offense intended) be ruinin' ye poe in the wind scheme. Put thar a 10% per day chance that ye lose 1% to 100% of ye buried poe to shovel-totin' seadogs. Then ye won't see her gladly running a charity service that leaves her queen of the buried hoards of treasure on e'ery isle! (Alas, the pains I suffer fer the benefit of me fellow man!) It be of no count to reckon that she no' be havin' to transport poe now to skeleton-hunt or trade, aye?


I disagree.

-She doesn't have money on every isle, and when we skeleton hunt, we do have to take a ship to the places that she has no money on.
-She'd doubtless run a charity service regardless, it's the type of person she is.
-By 'our sort', do you mean pirates that are willing to help others by having money available to move or lend?
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[Jul 28, 2003 8:02:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Penndalla

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I be no' sure I was includin' ye in her sort, Saynata! =P

I don't want to have to dig it up, but I know she has posted what her advantages are for doing these trades. More recently she posts like it is a charitable sacrifice.
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[Jul 28, 2003 8:12:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/Pennsuedo/?start=all [Link]  Go to top 
muffy



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Indeed, I do transport money Reply to this Post
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As I said elsewhere, perhaps 1 in 20 or so trips I transport a significant (several thousand) amount of money. Twice I've transported over 50K from Alpha down to Guava. In addition, of course, I transport small sums of money (1-2K) on a regular basis, either for trading or while bringing home booty.

As far as booty transfers go, I primarily help people transfer money from Guava to Alpha or vice versa, both of which have banks, so unless ye implement bank robbery (not robbery BY banks, which is already started, in the form of fees...*grin*, but robbery OF banks), ye aren't going to make a significant dent in me cash available to help people transfer (which, as the manager of the Guava bank, could be considered part of me shoppe responsibilities). Indeed, me transfer of the > 50K twice now was essentially a bank-to-bank reserve transfer.
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[Jul 28, 2003 8:13:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
saynata

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Penndalla wrote: 
I be no' sure I was includin' ye in her sort, Saynata! =P

I don't want to have to dig it up, but I know she has posted what her advantages are for doing these trades. More recently she posts like it is a charitable sacrifice.


Not sure where that came from, but I'm a member of her crew and flag, so I thought that was what you were referring to, Penn, darling, and it seems that she's addressed the other point.
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[Jul 28, 2003 8:24:34 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Valkor



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I found myself a temporary solution to my problem. I find somebody who needs their money to go the oppisat way, and we basically trade. Let me give ane xample

Person A has 500$ on Guava he needs to be sent to Alpha
Pesron B has 500$ on Alpha he needs to be sent to Guava.

So Person A gives Pesron B the 500 dollars on Guava to B
Then, Pesron B gives Person A the 500 dollars he has on Alpha.

See?
[Jul 28, 2003 10:32:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Penndalla

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Make money decay on islands with no banks, or make it possible to buy maps to dig it up. Then make bank transfers manual and publically know. Ye know thar be no way a ship with such wealth would slip out of port under the radar.
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[Jul 28, 2003 12:06:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/Pennsuedo/?start=all [Link]  Go to top 
nifboy



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How about using the Navy for bank transfers?
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triskaideka



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Maybe slightly off-topic for this thread, but: my main complaint about the current banking system is that, as an unaffiliated newbie (who likes to move around a lot), I'm almost never carrying any "pocket change" to wager in a swordfight or drinking match. I would have to make a point of going to the bank (if there is one) to get it out (and pay a withdrawal fee) just on the chance that a passing stranger might want to play against me. The upshot is that I almost never play games for money. Usually that's fine with me, but it would be nice to have the option.

One possible solution: pirates could be allowed to carry money with them wherever they go, including on board a boat, but only up to a certain limit, say 50 or 100 pieces of eight. (Make up some story about "vessel regulations allow each pirate to transport only so much money, to reduce the risk of attack"... you know, an earlier version of "driver carries no more than $20..." :) ) That would be enough to allow small wagers with strangers, while still requiring sums large enough to make substantial purchases to be transferred between banks or shipped by boat. (And perhaps pirates could purchase a fashionable sack or purse which would increase their limit by another 50....)

Another idea: navy vessels could give you your wages, or part thereof, as you leave the boat, instead of putting it all in your bank account. This could lead to a lot of people's money getting stuck on desert islands -- so maybe this idea could be combined with the above -- they would give you as much of your salary as the limit would allow, and deposit the rest.
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homullus

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Make the minimum 50 and people will do it 100 times to transport 5000 PoE. Wrecks the current system.
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triskaideka



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Good point.

Maybe a fee could be charged for it... I don't know. That seems like a pretty weak idea even as I type it. Some sort of ATM system, with machines conveniently located near docks and in inns? You'd still have to pay the withdrawal fee, but at least you wouldn't have to wander around looking for the bank.

My point is that the current system, while probably necessary to make sea battle profitable, discourages another aspect of the game which I assume is also important, namely, the wagering of (at least small amounts of) money in spontaneous swordfights/drinking contests.
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LonesomeCrow



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Here's a crazy idea I had floating around, and I think some others have eluded to similar schemes.

I was thinking it might work to have a carrier pigeon system. I could buy/rent a pigeon at the local aviary, and have it send items from place to place.

If I be needing to fight skellies on Oyster, but I'm sitting on Alpha with all me poe, I acquire a bird (buy/rent/free), and send it on it's way to oyster.

It flys along sea lanes in 'real-time' so as to be visible to ships. If a ship happens to cross paths with this courier, any 1 player on the ship can attempt to catch it (another puzzle), at the same time the person who sent the bird will also enter a puzzle to defend thier property.


Upon reaching the destination, the poe, or whatever, is buried until the person who sent it arrives on the island.


The courier could be a pigeon, dolphin, some mythical creature? They could carry anything (poe, swords, deeds). Pirates on land and sea could attempt to catch the bird (if it were a bird)

I think this might help to rectify the problem of scattered poe, and "I can't carry me poe". It also provides an opportunity for another puzzle (a PvP puzzle at that!)


Current problems that I see with this:
1 - yes it would take a person off a ship duty puzzle, but it shouldn't take long to complete the puzzle. If ye don't have enough crew on the ship and can't spare anyone, I guess ye miss out on that booty.

2 - The person who sent the bird may be busy with something at the moment thier bird is 'caught' and therefore isn't available to defend. Is the 'attacker' forced to wait (a maximum amount of time?) or is the 'sender' s.o.l?

I (obviously) havn't thought this through all the way, but thought I'd put it out there for discussion.

Whaddya think?
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Tarrna: [Insignificant] Senior Officer - Sinking Feelings

Sergio Aragones wrote: 


[Jul 29, 2003 1:03:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Needing money for wagers is fixable short-term by stopping at the bank first thing and withdrawing money, then going out and fighting.

The "messenger" thing is interesting, though it is essentially a faster version of sending things by ships, which we're supposed to be doing. Ships are interceptable by puzzles and everything.

Also, since puzzles are generally of the "easy to learn, difficult to master" variety, eventually people won't want to send things via gulls or dolphins because folks are too good at intercepting them.
[Jul 29, 2003 1:49:44 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
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