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AkMedic

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Rewarding those few Reply to this Post
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Hey, a post NOT about colonisation! Wooooo!

Now then, I realise what a colossial firestorm custom (pink greeter names) inspire, so let me outline this knowing that we are all against special colored name, etc. I take this idea from a MUD I once played, and by no means is it unique (though it could be made unique depending on how it was implemented). I would like to see an island accessable by only the 'legends' of the game, that is to say, those that have achieved skill in the puzzles (more non subjective, those with x amount of ultimate raitings, or even a sustained top ten finish), those with great skill in the 'social' puzzle (subjective, and potentially a point of contention, but if done correctly (perhaps a counsel of voters whom 'elect' people in based on contribution to the game?), and those with great wealth (say x amount of personal wealth can 'buy' you into this circle). This island would have special features, perhaps a 'legends' lounge, or a few houses (accessable via keys of some sort, and each house would indicate the 'class' you fit into, ie a social house, puzzle house, etc.). This island could sell goods at a somewhat reduced rate (rewarding the top players), of even could have goods unique to the island that only the top players could own, at great expense of course:) Nothing game shattering mind you, maybe here you could purchase (or rent perhaps) familars, order a flamberage (smae strike pattern as say a cleaver, just different artwork), or what ever those more smarter than I could dream up. Basically, as we are opening up some social circles, I think a special place for those that have made this game unique and what it is IS ok. I know that one of the main points recently is 'to make the game accessable to all', and you know, right on. I do however think some people have done alot for the game, or excell in a given task, or what have you, and SHOULD be rewarded somehow. This, and really any play CAN achieve this gain should they put in the work, and because there are different ways of entry to this 'Legends Island', it's not restrictive, more, something that one must earn and work for. Just a thought, I'm curious to know what you think and also ways in which we can refine this idea to assue the missive 'equality for all'. Again this is not to create a upper class or 'sect', more, to reward to those something tangable for their time, effort and contribution to this game. That, and it's imho a far better goal than say, an island.

Thoughts?
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Captain of the greatest crew in the seas.
King of the honorable and just flag Imperio.

Retired

Adversus solem ne loquitor
[Aug 9, 2005 4:00:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    AlaskanParamedic [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

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No sir, I don't like it.

The status symbol of pink names in Azure, of familiars and black clothes here, the eventual prestige of island governence, none would come close to creating issues like this would.

The "great" players get enough perks by virtue of being "great." The puzzling stars have familiars, the ability to win tons of cash in tourneies and events, and the prestige of top ten recognition, the social stars have all the friends they want right here on the normal islands, and the money makers have their fleet of ships, endless supply of black clothing, and the ability to throw around all sorts of cash.

Why do they need yet more benefits to make other people bitter or jealous?

On the other hand, it may prove a motivator for people to work harder, puzle more or be more social, but if your only reason is to get in to the special island, then you've done exactly what you said you didn't want to, and create a first/second class social division
[Mar 10, 2004 5:05:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lizzie

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I DO like it. I think there needs to be something for Black Death and other such crews, and for Rifkind and other such entrepreneurs. They earnt it, they deserve some special treatment for doing so damn well, and it does kind of suck that not much currently in the game is targeted at the high achiever.
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[Mar 10, 2004 5:09:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

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Like I mentioned in an earlier post, the way to reward expert puzzlers is adventure islands, where they will have oppertunities open to them which consistantly challenge them to improve, while giving incresing awards.

Not that "rewards" has to be poe, which many high-end pirates have more than enough of anyway, but this can be where your specialty items and things come in. Anyone can get them, it's just absurdly difficult.

This way everyone capable of achieving higher goals has the option to, without specifically exlcluding others.
[Mar 10, 2004 5:11:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Smurrf



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Well, over here I'd brought up the idea of an Olympia Isle...a lone-rock arch to give the high-end puzzlers more goals to shoot for.

Now, there was a reason I'd wanted it to be basically an arch pretty much for the sole purpose of tourneys and elite puzzler competition...and that's because this is more of a social game than most any other one out there. I'd have to say that putting up shoppes, especially shoppes designed to cater to only a select group of people is a bad thing for this kind of idea. Or at all.

Besides...look at it like this. Okay, I'll give you the skilled puzzlers. But how in the world do you rank intangibles? Either everything turns into a popularity contest, or you end up with strictly only those who have fat bank accounts rolling around on the beach of the island. Oh, and if these people are to keep the poe in their accounts to keep up their membership, how is that poe ever supposed to be disbursed among the rest of the population?

There's just too much of an ick factor for me to like this one. Sorry.
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[Mar 10, 2004 5:21:53 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
AkMedic

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Devonin wrote: 
Like I mentioned in an earlier post, the way to reward expert puzzlers is adventure islands, where they will have oppertunities open to them which consistantly challenge them to improve, while giving incresing awards.

Not that "rewards" has to be poe, which many high-end pirates have more than enough of anyway, but this can be where your specialty items and things come in. Anyone can get them, it's just absurdly difficult.

This way everyone capable of achieving higher goals has the option to, without specifically exlcluding others.


However, that's the point. This goal isn't about isolating people, more, it sets x standard and that standard anyone can reach. You arn't good at puzzles? Well, save hard and buy yer way in! No poe, but yer a charmer? Great, social club for you!

The point is, I would like to see a place outside of the Alpha islands of the seas, or what have you. In the MUD, there was a common area (the front porch) accessable to ALL, and I invision this as well, a place where new players can go and hang out and learn from the old ones. Not greeters per say, but those actually looking to learn from and meet the 'legends' in the game. So this island would have both a social port open to all, and one close to those in the particular clubs, so that they can escape the public hubs, and go lament about the days when there were only 100 folks on (even an Alpha section isn't a bad idea).

The goal is not to include, but to create an unique environment that has areas of access for all. Also, to allow for the builders of this community some reward, and also create a community for those good, rich or famous enough to exist in together, outside of flags, island, etc. Creating communities, good stuff!

As far as the 'famous' raiting, hum, if it became a populatiry contest, or something 'ooky', fine, remove it. None of these ideas are binding, more, I'd rather the base idea stand and those elements that are to prone to limiting or superficial observation (or popular vote) removed. The idea I had with the 'famous' ranking would be more one chosen by the om's and x players and based on merit, more than being 'well known'. Still, I'm not married to the idea:)
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Captain of the greatest crew in the seas.
King of the honorable and just flag Imperio.

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[Mar 10, 2004 5:24:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    AlaskanParamedic [Link]  Go to top 
damienroc

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Umm...

Gotta agree with Dev. While I can appreciate the gesture here, the implementation is very bad. Honestly, I find that, among the "elite" (and I use the term only to signify those who have achieved some greatness or notoriety in the game) the social connections and such are more than enough reward for the status.

I don't consider myself a great player. In fact, if pressed, I'd say I'm only mediocre at most puzzles. I am proud of my stats, and that it took me lots of practice and hard work to get them there (and I'm not done.) I am finding that I'm actually somewhat known. This actually comes as a surprise to me, in a lot of ways, and it rather pleasant to behold.

The connections and friendships I have built, and the recognition I get, this is, for the most part, enough reward for any "name" I may have. While (as noted in Eyes' thread) I don't feel that highly skilled players are rewarded enough, a measure like this would be too far. While I'm willing to respect the elite, and feel they should be rewarded, anything that smacks of elitism (specific privilages, rather than rewards, only available to a select few) is very, very bad.

So... try again?
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[Mar 10, 2004 5:36:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://damienroc.sandwich.net    AryaTheFaceless [Link]  Go to top 
Smurrf



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Yes, please do. As Roc just said, privileges are a baaaad thing in my mind.
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[Mar 10, 2004 5:44:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
AkMedic

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damienroc wrote: 
Umm...

Gotta agree with Dev. While I can appreciate the gesture here, the implementation is very bad. Honestly, I find that, among the "elite" (and I use the term only to signify those who have achieved some greatness or notoriety in the game) the social connections and such are more than enough reward for the status.

I don't consider myself a great player. In fact, if pressed, I'd say I'm only mediocre at most puzzles. I am proud of my stats, and that it took me lots of practice and hard work to get them there (and I'm not done.) I am finding that I'm actually somewhat known. This actually comes as a surprise to me, in a lot of ways, and it rather pleasant to behold.

The connections and friendships I have built, and the recognition I get, this is, for the most part, enough reward for any "name" I may have. While (as noted in Eyes' thread) I don't feel that highly skilled players are rewarded enough, a measure like this would be too far. While I'm willing to respect the elite, and feel they should be rewarded, anything that smacks of elitism (specific privilages, rather than rewards, only available to a select few) is very, very bad.

So... try again?


Hum, I don't consider myself in the elite either, so nor would this idea effect me much, if ever. My intent was really to give a place old players could hang out, worry (and maybe even tell) free, give a place for greenies/players to go where they might meet the older players (the porch), and also give some reward to those few in game whom have helped design, create, mold etc. the world around us.

I DO like the idea of a seperate island for this, but perhaps the format is wrong. So, I put this to all of you: is there a way (espically with islands coming, for I doubt, outside of events, we will see all of the 'legendary' players gather much more) to preserve the accessibility of older players, to reward them for their time and effort, and to allow it to be fair and balanced?

Again, with the idea that this is not to create an elite orginization, but more, to preserve the social aspects of the game (again when colonisation comes, I'm not sure those dock side gatherwings we now see will be all that common. The busier govenors and flags get, the less of a community we all have, ESPICALLY when we start talking about wars, outter arches (drawing folks away from the core islands), etc.). The MAIN goal being rewarding some, allowing access for others, and keeping the social community together in a common format or gathering place.
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[Mar 10, 2004 5:45:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    AlaskanParamedic [Link]  Go to top 
Smurrf



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I'm not even sure why you're asking for more "rewards" for older players? Greeters cover the need for greenies to have access to older players; there are always plenty of tourneys and events both in the auto boards and the more intense events posted here; alts cover the need for being tell free (if the player even feels the need to be so)...the only thing left is the "rewards" you're mentioning. I mean, isn't a veritable fleet of ships, royalty status in a prestige Flag, Captainship of a fine crew, Manager/Ownership of a Shoppe, Governorship of an Island, and the knowledge that people you've never even heard of either fear, respect, loathe, or are in awe of you enough? What else could be added that wouldn't imbalance the game?
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ramirojr



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"Most peoples, like most men, are docile only in youth; as they grow old they become incorrigible. When once customs have become established and prejudices inveterate, it is dangerous and useless to attempt their reformation; the people, like the foolish and cowardly patients who rave at the sight of the doctor, can no longer bear that any one should lay hands on its faults to remedy them."
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My backpacking buddy wrote: 
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[Mar 10, 2004 5:59:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
AkMedic

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Smurrf wrote: 
I'm not even sure why you're asking for more "rewards" for older players? Greeters cover the need for greenies to have access to older players; there are always plenty of tourneys and events both in the auto boards and the more intense events posted here; alts cover the need for being tell free (if the player even feels the need to be so)...the only thing left is the "rewards" you're mentioning. I mean, isn't a veritable fleet of ships, royalty status in a prestige Flag, Captainship of a fine crew, Manager/Ownership of a Shoppe, Governorship of an Island, and the knowledge that people you've never even heard of either fear, respect, loathe, or are in awe of you enough? What else could be added that wouldn't imbalance the game?


Not all our older players have access to these things. If we are talking someone in a flag, sure, quite possibly. Not all are in flags however, or have desires for such things. Simply because one is old or experenced does not mean one is wealthy.

Hum, my real modivation is giving something back to the folks whom I think have helped, are helping and continue to help make this game, socially and developmentally, what it is. It doesn't have to be in game per say either, more, something that they can be shown that yes, we notice and appricate said efforts.

Really, with the poterntial changes in the social economic structure of the game, I'd like to find a way to keep both young and older players involved and excited. I think the recent changes encourage the newer players, but I see them in some ways disheartning the older ones (not in all cases of course). I would like to find a way to also give back to the older players, and reward great acomplishment so that they DO feel appricated, outside of their flags or crews. So, really, that is the aim.

Also, and again, I see with the advent of colonisation comes an dispirsed player base. Again outside of major events, will we see Thanos, Pen, or what ever name ye wish to drop all sitting on the decks of Alpha, accessable to the vast majority of players? Once in awhile perhaps, but really most will likely devote their time to running their islands, building their flags, etc. So this vast player base we all grew up around and learned from is now moving apart, and I would like to see a common gound where both older players can come, outside of islands and flags, and hang out, as we did in Azure and to an extent as we do now. This also allows access to these folks for younger/newer players as well, who I think can benifit from the interaction. So, that is my intent.
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Captain of the greatest crew in the seas.
King of the honorable and just flag Imperio.

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[Mar 10, 2004 6:02:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    AlaskanParamedic [Link]  Go to top 
Smurrf



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Look at the other question that I haven't even brought up, as well: Given the choice between some front porch, where the older players can be lazy all the time, or actively playing the new additions to the game, will the older players even want to get together just to hang out?

Understand, I'm not tryin' to bust your chops in this aspect; I just don't see that there's a real need for such a design that isn't already being covered in one form or another.

::shrug:: If I'm wrong, I'm wrong...but as it stands; eh.
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[Mar 10, 2004 6:36:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
AkMedic

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Smurrf wrote: 
Look at the other question that I haven't even brought up, as well: Given the choice between some front porch, where the older players can be lazy all the time, or actively playing the new additions to the game, will the older players even want to get together just to hang out?

Understand, I'm not tryin' to bust your chops in this aspect; I just don't see that there's a real need for such a design that isn't already being covered in one form or another.

::shrug:: If I'm wrong, I'm wrong...but as it stands; eh.


Well, they SEEM to hang out now, on the docks, etc.....will they want to later? No idea, but I'd like a place to exist where they can, should they choose to do so, and also a place where they can either be alone (ie no tell, 'legend' land) with each other, or hangin out on the front porch, old man style. The reality is, while it does exist now, I'm not sure it will later.

The larger question you raise is a valid one: would they even want to? I would hope so, but I guess it depends on what the social landscape becomes in game.

I would hope giving them a place to hang out would encourage it, it seemed to in the MUD anyhow.
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[Mar 10, 2004 6:46:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    AlaskanParamedic [Link]  Go to top 
Thanos

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Lizzie wrote: 
I DO like it. I think there needs to be something for Black Death and other such crews, and for Rifkind and other such entrepreneurs. They earnt it, they deserve some special treatment for doing so damn well, and it does kind of suck that not much currently in the game is targeted at the high achiever.


they have most of the familiars...
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[Mar 10, 2004 8:29:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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AkMedic wrote: 
Really, with the poterntial changes in the social economic structure of the game, I'd like to find a way to keep both young and older players involved and excited. I think the recent changes encourage the newer players, but I see them in some ways disheartning the older ones (not in all cases of course).


It's the responsibility of older players to keep themselves interested and excited.

Also, I have a feeling that many people who are Ultimate at puzzles would not be all that keen hanging out in a place that also let in somebody who got there simply by mercilessly filling the forums with his opinion. The social puzzle is real, but much harder to score.
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54x

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I'd rather there were simply adventure islands tailored to people of varying proficiencies, including those of us who could take on several ships at once whilst soloing.
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[Mar 10, 2004 10:32:34 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mjwhitehead.com/    raasike54    secondlight5454    32987700 [Link]  Go to top 
Stinktoe



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54x wrote: 
I'd rather there were simply adventure islands tailored to people of varying proficiencies, including those of us who could take on several ships at once whilst soloing.


That I'd like to see....

Eventually, there's going to have to be some 'Valhalla' for elite players to enter - those who have acheived all there is to acheive in the game and need to go on to greater glory.

But there's no immediate need that I can see. People who have now been playing the game for a year or more are still entertained and challenged. I've been playing for 6 months and I feel like there'll still be much for me here at the end of my 2-year subscription.
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Nemo
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54x wrote: 
I'd rather there were simply adventure islands tailored to people of varying proficiencies, including those of us who could take on several ships at once whilst soloing.


I agree with the general sentiment that the rewards Parthanos wants to give would be better situated in epic Adventure Islanding.

There are a lot of nice ideas that come up that are essentially variations of things that are yet to come. So, their need isn't necessarily being met yet, but there is already a plan in place to meet it. The List is mighty.
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muffy



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Devonin wrote: 
Like I mentioned in an earlier post, the way to reward expert puzzlers is adventure islands, where they will have oppertunities open to them which consistantly challenge them to improve, while giving incresing awards.


Devonin is absolutely right. What I want is more variety of things to do, and there is no reason for it to be exclusively for one small part of the population. Sure, I'd love to have me golden glow about me person that I've always asked for, but it would be silly for the devs to put time into something that isn't (potentially) fun for all.
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[Mar 11, 2004 2:31:57 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
AkMedic

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muffy wrote: 
Devonin wrote: 
Like I mentioned in an earlier post, the way to reward expert puzzlers is adventure islands, where they will have oppertunities open to them which consistantly challenge them to improve, while giving incresing awards.


Devonin is absolutely right. What I want is more variety of things to do, and there is no reason for it to be exclusively for one small part of the population. Sure, I'd love to have me golden glow about me person that I've always asked for, but it would be silly for the devs to put time into something that isn't (potentially) fun for all.


Agreed, but I also belive giving a place where the young can meet the old and learn the ways, listen to the tales of lore...well you get the idea, is invaluable. Thus, rewarding few could also potentially benifit many, espically if they were to interact with younger players in a meaningfull way.

I like these adventure island ideas.....time to practive nav:)
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Captain of the greatest crew in the seas.
King of the honorable and just flag Imperio.

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Adversus solem ne loquitor
[Mar 11, 2004 4:39:31 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    AlaskanParamedic [Link]  Go to top 
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Parthanos:

The last time I checked, this was called "the docks."
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[Mar 11, 2004 4:41:34 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Smurrf



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Hehehe...for some reason I just didn't want to come right out and say that, but Aye.
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Y'de'll rilaz tha' sert'n ahlunds'r goan b'zactally wha'e jess describb't. Eff th'guv'nr c'n kintrel th'owses an' th'flegs suff'sently motorvated t'd'clair an' hol' a wer'n an'wun they dun'wann', thin y'gets yer EL-EET illun rye'ther.

No' tha' thas wha' srgnr ha'n mine, nae...
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Casnorf, The EVIL captain of the EVILLEST crew in this or any other Ocean!
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Casnorf wrote: 
Y'de'll rilaz tha' sert'n ahlunds'r goan b'zactally wha'e jess describb't. Eff th'guv'nr c'n kintrel th'owses an' th'flegs suff'sently motorvated t'd'clair an' hol' a wer'n an'wun they dun'wann', thin y'gets yer EL-EET illun rye'ther.

No' tha' thas wha' srgnr ha'n mine, nae...


.....

You do realize that certain islands are going to be actually what's just described. If the governor can control the houses and the flags are sufficiently motivated to declare and hold a war and win, then you get your ELITE island right there.

Not that that's what Sregnir has in mind, no...
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Rapmasta26, in a surprisingly accurate assessment of many posters' attitude towards things:

 
PLEASE PEOPLE, IF YOU DONT AGREE DONT REPLY!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mar 11, 2004 7:32:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    YPP+Crystallina [Link]  Go to top 
cmdrzoom

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Re: Rewarding those few Reply to this Post
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"hold a war on anyone they don't want"

Thanks for the rest, though.
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Starhawk of Mad Mutineers, Azure
Catalina of Twilight's Sabre, Cobalt
[Mar 11, 2004 7:36:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
AkMedic

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Re: Rewarding those few Reply to this Post
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I invision less player control and more neutral ground.......if one flag or group control it, it somewhat defeats the purpose.
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Captain of the greatest crew in the seas.
King of the honorable and just flag Imperio.

Retired

Adversus solem ne loquitor
[Mar 11, 2004 7:50:40 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    AlaskanParamedic [Link]  Go to top 
Smurrf



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Re: Rewarding those few Reply to this Post
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Curse you, Crys....yer stealin' me business!
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Hermit Smurrf
[Mar 11, 2004 8:08:43 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lizzie

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Re: Rewarding those few Reply to this Post
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Devonin wrote: 
Like I mentioned in an earlier post, the way to reward expert puzzlers is adventure islands, where they will have oppertunities open to them which consistantly challenge them to improve, while giving incresing awards.

Not that "rewards" has to be poe, which many high-end pirates have more than enough of anyway, but this can be where your specialty items and things come in. Anyone can get them, it's just absurdly difficult.

This way everyone capable of achieving higher goals has the option to, without specifically exlcluding others.


Actually I mentioned Adventure Islands, and you agreed :P
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Ravine
Black Death, Midnight

[Mar 11, 2004 8:27:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lizzie

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Re: Rewarding those few Reply to this Post
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Thanos wrote: 
Lizzie wrote: 
I DO like it. I think there needs to be something for Black Death and other such crews, and for Rifkind and other such entrepreneurs. They earnt it, they deserve some special treatment for doing so damn well, and it does kind of suck that not much currently in the game is targeted at the high achiever.


they have most of the familiars...


There are familiars on Midnight? Heh.. I really need to play more.
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Ravine
Black Death, Midnight

[Mar 11, 2004 8:30:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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