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Althalus

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Surrender Option Reply to this Post
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Probably been mentioned before, but if during a flag war sea battle, perhaps there could be an extra option to surrender if the crew doesn't want their ship sunk?

When the surrender button is pressed it could give the option to the other ship to accept or not. If the surrender is accepted, the sword fight would be skipped, and the surrendering ship would lose everything ('cept some rum).
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[Jan 26, 2004 5:45:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://tyr.simplecodes.com/forum    theirvman84    MasterAlthalus [Link]  Go to top 
xagoloth

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Re: Surrender Option Reply to this Post
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Althalus wrote: 
Probably been mentioned before, but if during a flag war sea battle, perhaps there could be an extra option to surrender if the crew doesn't want their ship sunk?

When the surrender button is pressed it could give the option to the other ship to accept or not. If the surrender is accepted, the sword fight would be skipped, and the surrendering ship would lose everything ('cept some rum).


No one wants their ship sunk mate.
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JackSparrow
www.mashrur.com
[Jan 26, 2004 5:48:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mashrur.com    jaquesparrow@yahoo.com    mashsurfer [Link]  Go to top 
atteSmythe

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Re: Surrender Option Reply to this Post
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You can always send a /tell.

If someone were to /tell me in combat that they desperately did not want that ship sunk, I'd respond that I would put a few more shot in it - not enough to sink, but to greatly unbalance the swordfight, then board to take their goods.

Any attempt to move, return fire, or fight in the swordfight would result in the treachery being posted to the forums and a complete lack of mercy towards at least that crew's ships in the future.

I think the social rewards/penalties for appropriate behavior in this situation would be enough.

atteSmythe,
perhaps too trusting, but on the other hand...
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Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]

[Jan 26, 2004 5:49:40 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://attesmythe.com [Link]  Go to top 
Jothmar



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Re: Surrender Option Reply to this Post
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I've actually rather thought that there should be a surrender button. But the result is that the pillagers take less PoE/goods then they normally would. If one side surrenders it can be accepted or not. If it is Sea Battle ends the victorious side gets 1/2 to 3/4 the PoE/goods it otherwise would.
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Kelyon Hawk of Fidelis Bellum
[Jan 26, 2004 5:52:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xagoloth

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Re: Surrender Option Reply to this Post
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On second thoughts.

There should be a surrender button, but the other person has to accept or reject it.

That opens up a door of possibilities.

A: I let you live in the great rum wars of Alpha
B: Fool ! Die now !!

:)
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JackSparrow
www.mashrur.com
[Jan 26, 2004 5:56:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mashrur.com    jaquesparrow@yahoo.com    mashsurfer [Link]  Go to top 
atteSmythe

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Re: Surrender Option Reply to this Post
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Jothmar wrote: 
I've actually rather thought that there should be a surrender button. But the result is that the pillagers take less PoE/goods then they normally would. If one side surrenders it can be accepted or not. If it is Sea Battle ends the victorious side gets 1/2 to 3/4 the PoE/goods it otherwise would.

Nah. If the person is in a position to surrender, and they're at war, they're already faced with losing everything on the ship or losing the ship entirely. I'm not about to accept less than what I would have gotten for victory in exchange for push-button diplomacy.

atteSmythe,
who possibly just likes typing too much
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Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]

[Jan 26, 2004 5:58:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://attesmythe.com [Link]  Go to top 
Jothmar



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I save time, they save PoE . . . good on both sides. Thats the basic thought anyway.
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Kelyon Hawk of Fidelis Bellum
[Jan 26, 2004 6:34:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
cmdrzoom

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Re: Surrender Option Reply to this Post
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Jothmar wrote: 
I save time, they save PoE . . . good on both sides. Thats the basic thought anyway.


The same is accomplished if they only lose all of their cargo, rather than (potentially) their ship, which is probably worth more than what they have on board.

To me, a surrender implies a lack of resistance. "Take what you want, just don't hurt us."
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Starhawk of Mad Mutineers, Azure
Catalina of Twilight's Sabre, Cobalt
[Jan 26, 2004 6:53:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jothmar



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I'm not talking just in Sea battle against flags your at war with but in all sea battles (excepting brigand sea battles). And more or less the reason I like the idea is because of some semi-historical background: people who surrendered were allowed to live those that didn't weren't. Since we obviously can't actually kill a character in the game PoE is the only thing that we could reward them with for surrendering rather then fighting. In war time you could move that up to 100% of the goods on their ship (minus a few rum), t'would be fine with me.
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Kelyon Hawk of Fidelis Bellum
[Jan 26, 2004 7:46:02 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Avast_Maetey



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Re: Surrender Option Reply to this Post
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Bah... I disagree Kylon

I definitley think there should be a surrender button that has to be accepted, but if accepted, then it acts like the person just lost the swordfight (everythin cept a few rum) and thats that.

It provides an alternative to sinkin, if both parties aren't up for it... which is good
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- Tronstad
SO & Trader o' ye Imperial Black Death
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[Jan 26, 2004 8:54:37 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
CursedBurger

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Or, possibly, surrendering prevents them from losing clothes and/or swords. Which reminds me, why don't we lose clothes/swords? Or do we and I didn't notice?
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Are there any pirates on this ship?
And if they sober up,
they'll have us home by morning.
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Stinktoe



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Re: Surrender Option Reply to this Post
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Until permanent storage is implemented, losin all yer belongings in one fell swoop would lead to throngs o' pirates mutinyin' 'gainst the Ringers...
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Don Quevegas
Officer of the Yo-Ho Yo-Yos
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[Jan 26, 2004 9:18:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
aaaargh



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Re: Surrender Option Reply to this Post
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Agreed Stinktoe, it would be like fighting the skellies, but in every battle. We would all be using our Alts as pack mules to hold our nice stuff. Wouldn't that be annoying.

HappyPants,
Who thinks a surrender button would be fine
[Jan 26, 2004 9:20:56 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lizzie

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Re: Surrender Option Reply to this Post
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If you lost your clothes or swords, how do you decide who gets what?
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[Jan 26, 2004 9:21:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
spuggy



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Interesting idea, but I can honestly say I don't like it. You know the risks going into a war as it is right now. If your crew doesn't want to go to war, then you don't have to accept it, unless you are in a blockade situation. To me, going to war implies that you put everything on the line, including those boats that you worked so hard to receive.

As to saving time, I guess this could be considered, but if there is a surrender option implemented, I want the boat to go down too; this is just the risk of war.
[Jan 26, 2004 9:25:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
CursedBurger

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aaaargh wrote: 
Agreed Stinktoe, it would be like fighting the skellies, but in every battle. We would all be using our Alts as pack mules to hold our nice stuff. Wouldn't that be annoying.

HappyPants,
Who thinks a surrender button would be fine


I kinda figured it'd be exactly like the skellies, where you only lose one item at a time.

Additionally, it'd probably be given randomly. Would incentivise attacking larger-crewed vessels, also. Besides, what's the logic about being willing to sacrifice a vessel and a body part but not a shirt?
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Are there any pirates on this ship?
And if they sober up,
they'll have us home by morning.
[Jan 26, 2004 10:45:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jothmar



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Re: Surrender Option Reply to this Post
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Jothmar wrote: 
In war time you could move that up to 100% of the goods on their ship (minus a few rum), t'would be fine with me.


Avast_Maetey wrote: 
Bah... I disagree Kylon

I definitley think there should be a surrender button that has to be accepted, but if accepted, then it acts like the person just lost the swordfight (everythin cept a few rum) and thats that.

It provides an alternative to sinkin, if both parties aren't up for it... which is good


In war conditions I said it could be that way, thats fine, the other part that I talked about was out side of war time conditions.
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Kelyon Hawk of Fidelis Bellum
[Jan 26, 2004 11:14:20 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
CrazyMorg



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i agree with the surrender button, as long as the other side chooses to accept it
[Jan 26, 2004 1:51:58 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
CustardBoy



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I agree with the surrender button, because even if someone goes to war, if they're losing and they know they're about to be shot down, they should at least have that option without having to beg to the others. Surrendering is very much part of sea warfare, and the results would be maybe a 40% loss rather than the usual 20%, or maybe even 60%, but all of which is still better than losing yer boat.
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The Manipulator
[Jan 26, 2004 3:17:29 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
54x

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Dipwood, how's that better when engaging and winning would net you nearly all of the goods?

I think the point was it should give you a greatly increased (60-75%?) amount when not at war, and be the same as a pillage when at war. It's basically a "I'm gonna lose, but I need to move, too" option.
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Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
[Jan 26, 2004 3:38:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mjwhitehead.com/    raasike54    secondlight5454    32987700 [Link]  Go to top 
Popper



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Re: Surrender Option Reply to this Post
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Of course the problem is that there may not be any goods of any value on the ship. So what can you lose, if you surrender?

Here it is: You lose the use of the ship for the duration of the war. The attacker captures it and can use it themselves.

Would you really prefer that it wasn't sunk?
[Aug 9, 2005 4:00:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xagoloth

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Popper wrote: 
Of course the problem is that there may not be any goods of any value on the ship. So what can you lose, if you surrender?

Here it is: You lose the use of the ship for the duration of the war. The attacker captures it and can use it themselves.

Would you really prefer that it wasn't sunk?


Aye I would. I rather I sink with my boat, than surrender me vessel to the enemy.

Rule of thumb in war: When you are about to surrender do one of two things.
1. Hide all the weapons, so you may engage in guerilla warfare in the future.
or
2. Make sure the enemy can't use your weapons against you.

blub blub blub
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JackSparrow
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[Aug 9, 2005 4:00:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mashrur.com    jaquesparrow@yahoo.com    mashsurfer [Link]  Go to top 
Jothmar



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54x wrote: 
I think the point was it should give you a greatly increased (60-75%?) amount when not at war, and be the same as a pillage when at war.


If you're not at war and you can't loose your sink why on earth would you ever surrender? If the surrender option was available in a non-war sea battle the surrendering ship would have to lose less goods then other wise. In war they could lose all goods since it would make it so they couldn't lose their ship.
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Kelyon Hawk of Fidelis Bellum
[Jan 26, 2004 10:56:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
nindar



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Continuing... Reply to this Post
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Since my new thread got locked (even though it was a different idea):

The surrender option should be variable. hence my idea for a /surrentder command.

As the defending captain, you decide how much POE you're willing to lose to protect your cargo. The attackers can accept or come after you...

Every fight you have a chance of winning or losing, this would be a guaranteed win for an unknown portion of the winnings. If the sloop you intercepted offers 2000 POE is it because he's in a hurry? or is he carrying 5 Kraken's?

It adds a bit of negotiation and give and take to pillaging. A surrender option should NOT be just some % (50-150) of the regular pillage. That just doesn't really make sense to me.

Naan

Hoping all the people who jumped on and shouted dupe take the time to read...
[Feb 10, 2004 7:22:39 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
atteSmythe

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Aye, your idea is different. It's not sufficiently different, and the same arguments apply to it. Why not just send a /tell with the amount yer willin' to fork over?

atteSmythe,
seeing a bunch of trees, and thinking, "A forest!"
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Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]

[Feb 10, 2004 7:31:56 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://attesmythe.com [Link]  Go to top 
Telastyn



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Okay, having read it before, and just wanted the ideas to be together, because I remembered most people thought this idea was not so good in this thread...





It's still a questionable idea at best. The poe instead of goods suggestion causes alot of programming difficulties.





1) who's offering the poe? the CO? a commanding officer is not guaranteed.





2) who gets the poe? the CO of the enemy? once again, not guaranteed. The booty? Probably the best place for it to go.





3) where does the poe come from? whisking poe is bad. people would just fight and "surrender" instead of paying the 3-10% transfer. If it comes from the hold/booty, why would the enemy accept? they'd just take yer poe anyways.





The only way I see surrender working is a non-consentual capitulation [within the first few turns only]. Essentially the defender can just give up what they would've lost had they lost the swordfight without the drawn out sea battle or possibly lost ship. Perhaps even toss in some damage/bilge. If the idea should be implimented at all, which I'm not convinced it should.



[edit: and as atteSmythe points out, there's already a method that allows this and solves all of the above problems without drawing developer time and energy from more fruitful pursuits.]
[Feb 10, 2004 7:36:07 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Cleaver
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Surrender Reply to this Post
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I know that Bluebeard for one really wants a surrender option, as he think that it's appropriate that a 'dread pirate' would terrify any poor foe into giving up their goods without a fight. It's got some merit, for sure, but to avoid a user interface fiasco it would have to be very simple; you offer surrender, the other side accepts, then the matter is settled as if you'd boarded and seized goods (whether in war, taking nigh everything, or out of it, taking the usual percentages), perhaps with a slight discount for giving it up.

It's an idea. You could even consider it on the list, but the List is Mighty, and lots of other stuff comes first.
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nindar



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Just to clarify... Reply to this Post
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The POE would have to come from the hold/booty.

It would go to the booty.

I don't see how it makes for a "free" transfer (you still have to sail with the POE in the booty)

The reasons they would accept:
1) You are offering more POE than they would get anyway.
2) They aren't guaranteed a win. Especially when a trader has a low ranked alt on (never happens, honest ;)
3) It's a whole lot quicker than a long 30+ person fight

a /tell isn't really acceptable because there's no way to enforce it. And yes I understand there's a social puzzle issue there, but odds are if you trust someone to give you POE, you won't be at war/attacking them for profit.

It's not ruining my game, or even really affecting it, it just seems like it would be a nice little feature. I'll take a it's near the bottom of the list as perfectly acceptable.

Naan
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Normandy



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Carpenters? Bilgers? Reply to this Post
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I'd say that all you mateys with ships should just get good carpenters and bilgers
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d_terror



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I know this thread was from months and months ago, but I still think a surrender option during sea battles is a good idea, but should be much simpler than what has been suggested. No chance for the other ship to accept or decline. The Surrendering party hits the button, battlenav and the sf are skipped, and then gets plundered just as if they had lost normally.

The only times I really see a surrender button being used is in pvp encounters or against brigands when someone is floating a totally empty ship.

There should also be a way to know when a ship has little or no cargo. Some comment about how low it is riding in the water when you target it. Perhaps even making ships sail slower depending on how much mass they have in their holds. If your ship registers as being empty, brigands will not attack. If it registers as full, brigands will be coming from everywhere.
[Dec 29, 2004 2:58:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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