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Forums » List all forums » Forum: YPPedia Community » Thread: YPPedia Q&A Thread |
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Thread Status: Normal Thread Type: Sticky Thread Total posts in this thread: 372
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lorkiria
Joined: Dec 3, 2003 Posts: 1637 Status: Offline |
This is a thread for folks wanting to ask about wiki/YPPedia stuff. The resulting Q&A material can be compiled into a YPPedia FAQ. Discussion about the content of specific articles should take place on that article's discussion/talk plage in the wiki. -Guppymomma --------- What is a wiki? A wiki is a system for collaborative writing & editing of articles on various topics. For the YPPedia, the articles are all about various puzzle pirate topics. Can I edit pages? Sure! The YPPedia is only as good as the contributors make it. Please start out by taking a look at some links on how to edit a wiki, as well as some of the YPPedia articles to get a sense of style. Some good links on wiki editing are: - Wikipedia's how to edit a page (additional useful links at the bottom of the page) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_edit_a_page - The YPPedia Style Guide - has a few pointers on available templates http://www.puzzlepirates.com/wiki/Style_guide If you want to practice or play around with editing, you can do so at the Sandbox at http://www.puzzlepirates.com/wiki/Sandbox. ---------- General Tips & Advice - Stay calm! Don't be upset if someone else immediately edits an article you just edited. Often folks notice the article on the Recent Changes page and add or correct bits they notice. This is a collaborative project and people are just trying to help you out. If you need to talk about things for a particular article, use the discussion/talk page (each article has their own). - When you make changes to a section of any article, work from the current version of the article rather than pasting in an older version. That way you avoid undoing the linkage, spelling, and grammar bits that contributors have helped fix. Not everyone is a wiki writing expert, but everyone can try to work with the material in a collaborative manner so that their information/spelling/linking/grammar booches can be covered by the skills and knowledge of others. ---------------------------------------- "There is no salvation in becoming adapted to a world which is crazy." - Henry Miller |
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jeffblake1
Joined: Aug 28, 2005 Posts: 12 Status: Offline |
My flag is Queen Anne's Revenge on Midnight ocean there is also another flag Queen Anne's Revenge on the Sage ocean. Is there a way to have the "name" of my page be Queen Anne's Revenge also. I could not figure out how to do it yet so i simply named it Queen Annes Revenge, with no appostrophy. Thanks for your time. ---------------------------------------- I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frosen dead from a bow without ever feeling sorry for itself. |
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lorkiria
Joined: Dec 3, 2003 Posts: 1637 Status: Offline |
That's when something called disambiguation comes in. In the case of flags/crews, we move each article to the appropriate name followed with (oceanname). In this case, it's Queen Anne's Revenge (Midnight) and Queene Anne's Revenge (Sage). Then the plain Queen Anne's Revenge page gets turned into a disambiguation page which points the reader to all the different things that might be referred to by the term Queen Anne's Revenge. Sometimes the phrase or word in the parentheses isn't an ocean, such as for Cleaver (pirate) and skull (trinket). Nickster's given you a hand with the moving & creating the disambig page and I've fixed the various links. If you have more questions, please ask away. - Guppy ---------------------------------------- "There is no salvation in becoming adapted to a world which is crazy." - Henry Miller |
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jeffblake1
Joined: Aug 28, 2005 Posts: 12 Status: Offline |
Wow thanks so much for the help and timely response. Fair winds to both of you. Jafo ---------------------------------------- I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frosen dead from a bow without ever feeling sorry for itself. |
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Rumsfeld
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How did the Pediators become so awesome? ---------------------------------------- ~Rumsfeld Montanio says, "punctuation is not needed I love reading run-on sentences they fill me with joy" Learn how to Quote! |
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lorkiria
Joined: Dec 3, 2003 Posts: 1637 Status: Offline |
I think it comes naturally in the form of a psychological disorder involving obsession and compulsion. We hope to get a group discount on therapy for it soon. ;) - Guppy ---------------------------------------- "There is no salvation in becoming adapted to a world which is crazy." - Henry Miller |
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Thunderbird
Joined: Sep 4, 2003 Posts: 4892 Status: Offline |
I like to think of it as something to do when I get bored sometimes ;). ---------------------------------------- Pirate tells you, "my, that's one BIG wad o' chewing gum ye have mounted on yer bonce! oO'" Sungod officer chats, "I wonder if anyone's sailing the harpsichord" Pirate tells you, "ZOMG CANDYFLOSS!!! *munches*" |
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blue_jacket
Joined: May 1, 2004 Posts: 886 Status: Offline |
I'm in the same boat as Thunderbird, and we get bored a lot. ---------------------------------------- -Yaten YPPedia administrator. Mostly retired. |
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Rappak
Joined: Apr 11, 2004 Posts: 2516 Status: Offline |
Question, why am I not on the Famed pirates for cobalt/possibly midnight? I'm not going to create one as I'm probably going to be too pretentious in making it and refer back to my user page. ---------------------------------------- Rappak, memmer of the oceans. Rappak- Ex-king of Something Powerful (Cobalt)/ex-Lord of Indestructible Fury, a caged free-bird forever. Rappak- Officer in Easily Distracted (Midnight)/Mem helper in CT/Where am I? |
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char
Joined: Jan 4, 2004 Posts: 1541 Status: Offline |
Reason: You or someone who knows you hasn't made one ;-) The wonder YPPedia editers don't know all the Kings, Queens, Governors and Familiar holders (ok on Familiars they do) of the ocean. ---------------------------------------- Zife Senior Officer of Black Death Host of the 11th Black Death Tournament Co-Host of the 10th Black Death Tournament |
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Barrister
Joined: Dec 2, 2003 Posts: 1795 Status: Offline |
Just a heads up that we are renaming the categories on YPPedia right now. This may lead to some strangeness in the Category entries. This will take several days to do since there are some subtleties to dealing with the various templates. Your patience is appreciated. For those who are curious, we're changing things like: "Category:Islands:Midnight" to "Category:Midnight Ocean islands" This should make the category names easier to understand and more consistent with Wikipedia. ---------------------------------------- Barrister - YPPedia Administrator - Looterati |
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Barrister
Joined: Dec 2, 2003 Posts: 1795 Status: Offline |
Done. ---------------------------------------- Barrister - YPPedia Administrator - Looterati |
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Toesy
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 68 Status: Offline |
Quite a bump, I know. But this looks like the right place to ask. Is there any kind of bot policy (in the sense of automated updates rather than user-typed updates; along the lines of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bots) for the wiki? I've written MediaWiki bots for my work wiki, and I do some regular scraping of YPP data and it occurs to me that it might be useful to combine the two. For example, to keep owners of islands and some crew/flag data up-to-date. Toes ---------------------------------------- Bluetoes is not a disease |
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ponytailguy
Joined: Aug 20, 2005 Posts: 8913 Status: Offline |
I do believe there's an order from on high not to scrape such things because of server load... I'm 100% sure that we're essentially limited to linking to portrait pages at the moment... crew/flag pages are to be avoided, but I'm unsure about pirate pages. I'll ring some doorbells for you, though. ---------------------------------------- Caturday everyday! How would you fix Midnight? |
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Toesy
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 68 Status: Offline |
You're right to point out such things. So let me make clear, as I should've done in my initial post: I've talked to the Ringers about scraping data and been told that what I'm doing (and when I'm doing it - at times of relatively low load) is not a problem. What I'm proposing doing is automatically editing some wiki pages to include data that has been scraped, not linking to the yoweb crew/flag pages themselves. Toes ---------------------------------------- Bluetoes is not a disease ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Toesy at Jul 16, 2006 8:20:34 AM] |
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lorkiria
Joined: Dec 3, 2003 Posts: 1637 Status: Offline |
If the data collection routine's been okayed by the Ringers, then it'd probably be fine to do a test run on the wiki to see if it works. I'm not entirely familiar with the bot thingee. Probably if you just named it Bot-descriptionoffunction so we know what's happening, that would work well enough and monitoring of it for a few weeks in the real world YPPedia environment will take place just to make sure everything's working smoothly. It might be helpful to give us a little more detailed & specific description about exactly what you plan to have it be doing before starting the test. - Guppy ---------------------------------------- "There is no salvation in becoming adapted to a world which is crazy." - Henry Miller |
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Toesy
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 68 Status: Offline |
Aye. Also, I'd expect the bot-account to be terminated with extreme prejudice if an admin thought it had lost its marbles in any way.
I've a few ideas. I'll start with this and if it's well received (and if it ends up working as advertised) then I'll propose some others: I propose creating a bot user called Bot_flaginfo. This would:
I would have the bot only update the main article if it found an existing {{Infobox flag ...}} entry on the page. That prevents the bot from screwing up, say, the Bilging article if there's also a flag called Bilging. It would note somewhere any articles it finds that have flag names but don't have the flag infobox - maybe User_talk:Bot_flaginfo, maybe just in local log files...I'm not sure what would be best there. Then that could be resolved with a disambiguation page. I don't propose having the bot create the disambiguation stuff itself, just noting it and having a real person deal with it. I'm not at all sure about [4] being worthwhile and don't have any intention to implement that part unless the concensus seems to be that it's a good idea. Maybe a better idea, less likely to fill up the wiki with never-read articles, would be to only create a new flag page if it appears in Special:Wantedpages. If that all sounds useful, I'd suggest during an initial testing period it only updates articles under User:Bot_flaginfo/Sandbox and if admins are happy with what it does there then let it loose on real articles for another test period. Best to assume I don't have a clue until demonstrated otherwise :-) ---------------------------------------- Bluetoes is not a disease ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Toesy at Jul 16, 2006 11:41:50 AM] |
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Fiddler
Joined: Mar 4, 2004 Posts: 4239 Status: Online |
Bluetoes, this sounds like a great idea. I've got a few thoughts and comments for you but they're fairly technical; I propose moving that discussion to the talk page for the account once you set it up so we don't bore everyone else in the thread. Keep this in mind though:
---------------------------------------- Orsino, Viridian ocean Forum-mute: your best friend
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Toesy
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 68 Status: Offline |
Fiddler_observation++ :-) Thanks. I've edited my previous post with that in mind and created a Bot_flaginfo user just to ensure that that name is both valid and reserved for this use. I'll not let an actual bot loose on the wiki without the appropriate nod or nods. But User_talk:Bot_flaginfo is now available for any boring techie talk. Toes ---------------------------------------- Bluetoes is not a disease |
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Sagacious
Joined: Mar 6, 2006 Posts: 3548 Status: Offline |
I thought I'd make the first post on it - but I've probably made meself look a pillock. Wait a sec.... ---------------------------------------- Malachite & Midnight |
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Barrister
Joined: Dec 2, 2003 Posts: 1795 Status: Offline |
Overall, this sounds interesting. However ...
I beg you not to do this. Across the oceans, there are probably thousands of dormant flags. Adding pages for them would not add meaningful content. Thanks! ---------------------------------------- Barrister - YPPedia Administrator - Looterati |
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Toesy
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 68 Status: Offline |
Totally agree. I think (some of) the sensible options are:
I propose implementing [1] (don't create any new pages) in the first instance. [2] can be debated if and when the bot is otherwise useful. Toes ---------------------------------------- Bluetoes is not a disease |
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Sagacious
Joined: Mar 6, 2006 Posts: 3548 Status: Offline |
Is it possible for the bot to do something like, only create a flag page when the flag has a certain number of active members? A flag with less than 5-10 active members probably might not be worth adding. Edit: I'm afraid I'm quite blind...suggestion 2 above is along the lines of my suggestion. ---------------------------------------- Malachite & Midnight ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Sagacious at Jul 16, 2006 1:43:27 PM] |
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atteSmythe
Joined: Jul 28, 2003 Posts: 8052 Status: Offline |
In my opinion, and just my opinion, there is an enormous difference between two pages that look identical, but were created, respectively, by a human and a bot. The difference is that the human knows about the page, takes a certain pride in the page, and has a decent chance of coming back to fill it out later. A page of nothing but infoboxes populated with yoweb data, created by a bot, and whose in-game flag knows nothing of it, is likely to never be anything more than an infobox. ----------------------------------------
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Grayside
Joined: Aug 17, 2005 Posts: 2080 Status: Offline |
If this is too technical I guess I could shorten the post and slap something in the discussion page. So is an infobox worthwhile in and of itself? The important question there.. outside certain kinds of web-compulsives, would the existence of a bot-created infobox page discourage members of a given flag from detailing their wiki page? The 'create new pages' idea makes sense to me to lay the ground work for flag pages that need research, and are being developed for historical reasons. In that case, it sounds less like an automated process and more like a manual process to specify a flag in need, for this particular function anyway. *** As far as up-to-date on flag details, how would that affect a flag slowly or temporarily going dormant? Isn't the info you want on the YPPedia that from the last active point of the flag? What about flags with multiple infoboxes? No, I've never seen this. But it makes sense to me that a flag that wanted to summarize itself at certain key points in its history might do this. Accounting for that would be difficult unless a timeline order for infobox inclusion were enforced. This (and other potential problems like it) either mean more administrative work, a bot needing to search for an infobox that has a recent date_of_validity kind of field, or perhaps a special flag made available on pages to allow or disallow the bot from working. ---------------------------------------- Firestone, Captain, Mad Tea Party, Cobalt Gallant, PotD, Midnight ---------------------------------------- [Edit 1 times, last edit by Grayside at Jul 17, 2006 10:20:33 AM] |
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atteSmythe
Joined: Jul 28, 2003 Posts: 8052 Status: Offline |
This is common for multi-ocean flags (inasmuch as those flags are, themselves, common). See Vilya ----------------------------------------
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Toesy
Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 68 Status: Offline |
Hmmmm...this shows a flaw in my basic assumptions. I've been assuming that the infoboxes are expected to contain up-to-date information. If that's not the case then attempting to keep them up-to-date is clearly a mistake and I withdraw my bot suggestion. Toes ---------------------------------------- Bluetoes is not a disease |
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Barrister
Joined: Dec 2, 2003 Posts: 1795 Status: Offline |
Actually, this is the first I've heard of wanting to use an infobox to create a snapshot of the past. I'm not aware of any YPPedia pages that use infoboxes for that. ---------------------------------------- Barrister - YPPedia Administrator - Looterati |
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Fiddler
Joined: Mar 4, 2004 Posts: 4239 Status: Online |
The only situation like this that I can think of is when a flag that is going or has gone dormant gets marked as defunct, even if the flag itself still exists. At that point the infobox records the information from the last day that anyone considered the flag a goiing concern. Two good examples of this are of doom and Children of Chaos on Viridian ---------------------------------------- Orsino, Viridian ocean Forum-mute: your best friend
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Grayside
Joined: Aug 17, 2005 Posts: 2080 Status: Offline |
My thought on outdated infoboxes and multiple infoboxes is more a consideration of what could be possible. They are entirely likely things for me to have done at certain times if I weren't busy with those same things in the game. At the same time, all that information can easily (and more richly) be described written out in the body of the article. On later consideration, my real point is to make it clear that such a bot would require format guidelines for flag/crew pages. Or the more technical solution... the bot ignores the {nonupdatable_flag_infobox} in favor of a {flag_infobox}. This would allow an opt-out for anyone using the templates in unexpected ways. ---------------------------------------- Firestone, Captain, Mad Tea Party, Cobalt Gallant, PotD, Midnight ---------------------------------------- [Edit 2 times, last edit by Grayside at Jul 18, 2006 9:50:04 AM] |
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