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garf



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spectating fights Reply to this Post
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just a suggestion that would add a lot of good things (entertainment, cheering and last but not least a decent way of learning from better players): add a way to watch other players puzzle.

imagine the two most feared and infamous swordfighters having a duel, and a cheering crowd could actually follow how the pirates puzzle it out.

this is obviously most usefull for the player vs player puzzles, but surely would be interesting for the duty puzzles, too.
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- Randal

[size=9]also Garf, Silvain and a few others
[Jun 27, 2003 4:40:40 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    garf+on+aim [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Hey, I have a bright idea! Have a sticky topic for ideas like this one that keep coming up (and coming up, and coming up, and coming up), but there are technical reasons why they won't happen.
[Jun 27, 2003 4:55:20 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
jollyroger23



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homullus wrote: 
Hey, I have a bright idea! Have a sticky topic for ideas like this one that keep coming up (and coming up, and coming up, and coming up), but there are technical reasons why they won't happen.


I try to look for things before i post them, or at least just include them in a post that has something new in it.

Maybe their could be a page to show common suggestions or ideas, and explain them... Or just expand the FAQ or make a sub-FAQ that is design?
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-Tob
[Jun 27, 2003 5:15:36 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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garf wrote: 
just a suggestion that would add a lot of good things (entertainment, cheering and last but not least a decent way of learning from better players): add a way to watch other players puzzle.

imagine the two most feared and infamous swordfighters having a duel, and a cheering crowd could actually follow how the pirates puzzle it out.

this is obviously most usefull for the player vs player puzzles, but surely would be interesting for the duty puzzles, too.



All very good reasons for a very good idea that, as Homullus mentioned, has been brought up over and over.
In a sword fight puzzle, the information from the server is "here's your set of pieces." The information from the client is "I did that." All of the decision-making inbetween is handled on the client. The piece slowly falling, the rotating the player does and the shifting around are all client-only. Sending this information would drastically multiply the amount of data we send back and forth and require it to be nearly constant.

-Nemo
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[Jun 27, 2003 5:36:34 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
garf



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i did look through the forums.. if that idea has been mentioned before, i guess with a topic i didnt recognize. pardon for that.

still, i do believe it would be worth going to lengths regarding technical issues to make such things possible. but that's just me. :)

edit: you replied while i did. so let me add that i believe those informations are certainly good enough. the spectators would just see the pieces pop up where they have been dropped. i dont think that *how* they got there is very important.
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- Randal

[size=9]also Garf, Silvain and a few others
[Jun 27, 2003 5:41:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    garf+on+aim [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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And for clarity of tone, I was only being slightly smarty-pants by suggesting the sticky topic. It *would* be a good idea to have all that info in one place, along with a minimal technical explanation if there is one, as with Nemo's answer to my idea for different sounds for different swords. A place for decent-but-discarded ideas. Other ones exist and have been answered, like . . .


Why can't we have:

day/night cycles
animated hair
custom tattoos
unisex clothing
weather
in-game secure crew forums
[Jun 27, 2003 6:02:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Cleaver
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Better FAQs Reply to this Post
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Better FAQ's are coming with the Beta site. Oh yes.
[Jun 27, 2003 7:01:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
Droidicus



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For the spectating we would not need to see the pieces move and rotate. All I would want is to be able to see both parties screens in realtime (update them after each piece is placed on the game board/ OOH, it could be pretty and 'fade' the newly placed piece in as well) and a chat channel so that the spectators could talk about it. It would also be nice to be able to watch another player after being knocked out in a sea battle (only on the same ship, it might be too much of an advantage to see the other team's boards.

The server knows what pieces that are played, and what swords are sent. I am assuming that the server is told where on the gameboard the pieces are placed, but this shouldn't take up that much bandwidth even if it are not already sent.

oh, and cleaver: if I were you I wouldn't bother updating the FAQs, us pirates won't read them anyway ;-)

Droidicus
[Jun 27, 2003 8:04:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LonesomeCrow



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Here's an idea that's just crazy enough to work.

What if the sword fight puzzle kept some sort of a log that could be sent to yer opponent after the fight. Each player would send the other thier log, which could then be used to recreate the fight with side by side puzzles so you could view the fight as it happened.

There could be a time code of some kind, allowing players to pause at key places to discuss.
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[Jun 27, 2003 8:15:20 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jollyroger23



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I always thought that spectating would be like such:

When you are in a sea battle, you can see the mini-screens of all the players. Spectating could just be seing these mini-screens.


Cleaver - Making a new FAQ would be nice, people like me who dont wish to be a bother will read up before we ask annoying questions.
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-Tob
[Jun 27, 2003 8:20:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
garf



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LonesomeCrow wrote: 
Here's an idea that's just crazy enough to work.

What if the sword fight puzzle kept some sort of a log that could be sent to yer opponent after the fight. Each player would send the other thier log, which could then be used to recreate the fight with side by side puzzles so you could view the fight as it happened.

There could be a time code of some kind, allowing players to pause at key places to discuss.


another excellent idea. i can't see how this would take much bandwidth or make any other problems, of course not counting anything that's not guessable about the code structure from what the game looks like.
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- Randal

[size=9]also Garf, Silvain and a few others
[Jun 27, 2003 9:42:57 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    garf+on+aim [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Nice, except lots of people won't read the FAQ's either. Organizing things does two things: it heads off a few more questions, and gives grumpy people like me a surer ground for being sarcastic.

So yeah, it will definitely help!
[Jun 27, 2003 12:03:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
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Recording puzzles is on "the list". Here's the exact entry:
Record (on the client) all information necessary to recreate a user's puzzling experience and provide an ability for the user (at the termination of the puzzle) to save it in one of their puzzle "slots" which can be viewed by other users

So many features, so little time (and as of yet, no profits!).
[Jun 29, 2003 1:04:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post   [Link]  Go to top 
Penndalla

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We'll pay good poe fer the ability to train each other by showing our puzzles. Does that help any? I'm tellin' ye, that poe will soon be good as gold on ebay. ;)
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Pennsuedo

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[Jun 29, 2003 7:42:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/Pennsuedo/?start=all [Link]  Go to top 
garf



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thanks, samskivert, thats great news.

(and from that, it shouldnt be too far to send that list real time... /me ducks behind a barrel of rum ;))
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- Randal

[size=9]also Garf, Silvain and a few others
[Jun 30, 2003 8:03:07 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    garf+on+aim [Link]  Go to top 
LongJohnGrey

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<BUMP>. I am bumping the most original relavent thread I could find on this. I am moving this post out of the "anti-list" topic.

I know that the full details of any duty puzzle/SF being watched is anti-listed, because so much of it is client side.

While it may be impossible to watch a SF/Brawl in progress, there are two items that may be possible:

1. Watching all the mini puzzles and their 5 second updates. No change needed to the SF'ing clients -- the server already collects all the information needed.

This would not impact the SF/Brawl at all, and does not expose any new information. This is doable; whether it would be done is something else.

2. Watching a specific board, but NOT seeing the drops in progress. The idea here is that you see the board update exactly once per piece drop. The client would need to add as new information to the server:
A) Where the piece was placed
B) Where sword drops/sprinkles were placed

Neither is high bandwidth, so this is possible.

This would not work for bots, and could be used as cheating for players (a coach watches your opponent, and advises you), so is not likely to be done.

In particular, if someone is "TKO'd" (disconnected) at sea, and reconnect in the SF phase, I'd like to be able to at least WATCH my friend's mini-screen (suggestion #1) and see the chat-talk in context. Not that this has happened to me, no, not lucky me :-).

For other puzzles (duty, crafting) much the same applies -- even if you can't see all the action in a carp, nav, sail, or bilge, you might be able to get an update once a piece. Bilge might be the only hard part, because some clears will bring lots of new pieces on. The answer is for the server to have the same board and random number seed, so that again you only need to pass "This is where I swapped", and not "These are the twenty new pieces added to the board".

Note that for duty/crafting puzzles, this allows an officer/SO to provide training for a new recruit, or a manager to train a worker. I'm really hoping it will happen.

I know that this (server and client share RNG state and duplicate the board) won't result in significant bandwidth changes. Right now, for example, the client has to send "I scored <n> points", and this just changes it to "I made <x> move". Whether it would overflow the server's computing capacity is another question. You could just add in two new packets -- server to client "Request copy of board for observer", and client to server "Sending copy of board for observer" with "nil" for bots. Then, there is no extra work on the server at all; there is only minor overhead for communication (client sends "I made move <x> and scored <n> points", and the rare, occasional full board send outside of SF.)

Now, gunning ...
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Re: Market on Scurvy Reef:
Hypnos wrote: 
I didn't realize it was such a hot forage spot until I dropped it and three pirates showed up on the island in quick succession.
And it wasn't even 9 spaces from the arrow :-).
[Sep 6, 2004 10:54:29 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
54x

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Sounds like what jack was referring to would be a way to make the game record the information from a puzzling session into a file. Then that file could be replayed using the client, and distributed to people, allowing for all sorts of tutorials without us having to make videos- anyone who had downloaded the game could see.
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Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
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shockedfrog

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It would also be a lot more 56k-friendly to be able to record games like that.
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avalon2



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I dont suppose there could be spectator stations some where like the inn or palaces, where the puzzle info sending is set up diferent so that it is possible?
So you could go into teh back room of the inn look at the spectator stion and pick a puzzle, then once you pick the set up have the spectators enter. Now the spectators have a special chat that the puzzler cant see until after the fight.

Buzzles such as bildge and carp could leave out the bounuses such as fish crabs and grain, and while they would still say double vegas and bingo it woiuldnt actually keep any score,

Also the SF set up could say bot or pirate opponent, and the person setting up would have to type in the pirate name they will be fighting.

HEH if something like this was done there could even be a special window added later that alows the spectators to bet on the outcomes of sf's.

These stations would ahve no effect on ratings only an easy way to show people things, or in cases like mine, people to try and figure out what on earth im doing wrong lol
[Sep 8, 2004 2:48:22 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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But the discussion of this thread is that you can't see what the person is doing, realtime. It may be reasonable to be able to store the information for playback later.
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[Sep 8, 2004 3:10:36 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BehindCurtai

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(Sigh. My last post as LJG was an OOC post, sorry).

For gunning, how about being able to watch a person's gun state -- what pieces are in the guns, which cannons are loaded or not loaded. It's about the only thing I can think of that is low bandwidth enough that it could be doable, and it's information already collected by the server.
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"We're trying to find the error bars on that number"

Dylan wrote: 
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54x

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avalon2 wrote: 
I dont suppose there could be spectator stations some where like the inn or palaces, where the puzzle info sending is set up diferent so that it is possible?
So you could go into teh back room of the inn look at the spectator stion and pick a puzzle, then once you pick the set up have the spectators enter. Now the spectators have a special chat that the puzzler cant see until after the fight.

Buzzles such as bildge and carp could leave out the bounuses such as fish crabs and grain, and while they would still say double vegas and bingo it woiuldnt actually keep any score,

Also the SF set up could say bot or pirate opponent, and the person setting up would have to type in the pirate name they will be fighting.

HEH if something like this was done there could even be a special window added later that alows the spectators to bet on the outcomes of sf's.

These stations would ahve no effect on ratings only an easy way to show people things, or in cases like mine, people to try and figure out what on earth im doing wrong lol


Why does realtime actually matter? Isn't the important part just the spectating?
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Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
[Sep 8, 2004 8:33:22 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mjwhitehead.com/    raasike54    secondlight5454    32987700 [Link]  Go to top 
smilidom

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The main idea you guys been talking about here stinkys, yes i know the bump.

Well there is one thing i loved about this thread, no its not the main idea its the idea a guy had of logs, that you can send to other ppl, the logs could be stored in a section of the sunshine widget so you can send them to other ppl by a special window.

This way you can show some battles you had, but of course you will had to press a "record" buttom if you think you would like to save that battle in a log.

I think that it would be an amazing adition to the game.
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Smilidom on Hunter.

Nothing important so far...
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