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Varthlokkur



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Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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When you forage, you occasionally get a single gem. However, if that gem calls for you to sail all the way across the ocean, it's not really worth the time; certainly, you can easily earn the thousand poe (less rum) in the same time more easily (or earn more, faster) if you're good enough to deliver it anyway.

So, suggestion (from Cygnii, originally, in response to Fannon's complaints trying to divest herself of a foraged gem): instead of foraging gems that go into the hold, have the forager find a gem trinket that goes into their booty.
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Vistr of Innocent, of Crimson Tide
- Midnight, the grudge-holding ocean
[Nov 12, 2005 8:42:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    craigld [Link]  Go to top 
imwamphyr

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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Interesting. I think I like this idea.
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Selling my Grunion Collection!
174 ships, 164 sloops, ALL GRUNIONS!
[Nov 12, 2005 8:44:44 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Pirate Muroni [Link]  Go to top 
Thunderbird

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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This would probably also add this part to the other oceans, as it's only possible to forage gems on Midnight (seeing as gems don't exist on the other oceans at all).
----------------------------------------
Pirate tells you, "my, that's one BIG wad o' chewing gum ye have mounted on yer bonce! oO'"
Sungod officer chats, "I wonder if anyone's sailing the harpsichord"
Pirate tells you, "ZOMG CANDYFLOSS!!! *munches*"
[Nov 12, 2005 8:46:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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I think foraging for trinkets entirely separately from the previous gem setup would be good.
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-Avatar by AlexisAngel-
[Nov 14, 2005 11:37:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shivver



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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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Just because I still like my idea:

http://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthread?p=442621#442621

There is a bit of discussion after this with great ideas, too.
[Nov 14, 2005 12:12:52 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
atteSmythe

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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I'm still not fond of the Y!PP slot machine concept. I like giving out trinkets for minor accomplishments, but IMO they should still be accomplishments.

That said, foraging a gem, currently, is more than likely completely worthless.

Smythe,
has run out of action points for the day
----------------------------------------
 
Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]

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rixation

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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I think foraging for trinkets entirely separately from the previous gem setup would be good.

While I appreciate that foraging is currently worth very little and there's a very good reason for that, I think that unless the trinkets which are available by foraging are tightly controlled they will become worthless.

With that said, foraging a coal trinket would be a perfect fit with the chance to forage gold ore...
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Epimetheus
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[Nov 14, 2005 12:24:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
imwamphyr

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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Smythe,
has run out of action points for the day

Hullo hon, wrong game! LOL

Muroni
Who needs revived, but has no clue where she is.
----------------------------------------
Selling my Grunion Collection!
174 ships, 164 sloops, ALL GRUNIONS!
[Nov 14, 2005 7:25:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Pirate Muroni [Link]  Go to top 
Matthias

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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I think foraging for trinkets entirely separately from the previous gem setup would be good.


So, wait, does this mean you guys decided you didn't like gems after all?
----------------------------------------
I took my own advice.
[Nov 15, 2005 6:41:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Chainmaille

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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Gems already serve a coded purpose, even if it isn't always practical to make use of them. There's no point in throwing out the effort that went into coding them.
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Derakon - Black Plague on Viridian and Sage
[Nov 15, 2005 7:13:40 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Varthlokkur



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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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Gems already serve a coded purpose, even if it isn't always practical to make use of them. There's no point in throwing out the effort that went into coding them.


There's a distinction between market spawned gems (which often occur at quantities that make sailing them worthwhile) and foraged gems (which, unless you get very local ones, will not be worthwhile). The argument isn't against against market-spawned gems. Removing the code for foraging gems should be a simple matter of editing a probability table.

Further, if you can take an ocean-specific function (as per Thunderbird's post that gems are Midnight only), and replace it with a generic game-wide function, that is, I would think, an improvement.

I understand Atte's dislike of the slot machine 'click and hope you win' jackpot of foraging. But people do like that aspect, and if you're going to have it, then hitting one of the rare chances should be a notable prize, not something you're more likely to try and give away.
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Vistr of Innocent, of Crimson Tide
- Midnight, the grudge-holding ocean
[Nov 15, 2005 7:51:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    craigld [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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I understand Atte's dislike of the slot machine 'click and hope you win' jackpot of foraging. But people do like that aspect, and if you're going to have it, then hitting one of the rare chances should be a notable prize, not something you're more likely to try and give away.


And the trinket could be forage-specific, not only giving the foragers more value, but also making it clear how they got it.
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[Nov 15, 2005 11:03:22 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
dravlid

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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Instead of foraging a gem and having to sail it across the ocean to a far away arch, perhaps a slight change.

Have any capital island able to buy any gem, but the value of the gem is only 1/2 (500 poe). Only the corresponding colored arch would pay full price (1000 poe).

This way people would not be as upset to sail 5-10 leagues to sell a gem vice 30-40-or 50 leagues to sell one.
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[Nov 15, 2005 11:57:40 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Ruddigore

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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dravlid wrote: 
Instead of foraging a gem and having to sail it across the ocean to a far away arch, perhaps a slight change.

Have any capital island able to buy any gem, but the value of the gem is only 1/2 (500 poe). Only the corresponding colored arch would pay full price (1000 poe).

If you were going this route, it'd probably be better to make the buy price for out-of-arch gems be the same as the sell price for that gem spawning at that market. That makes the decision between sailing and selling locally more direct (while still always beating fruit), and you don't need to disable gem spawning at capital markets for cases where a 500 price would be Instant Profit (tm).
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Ruthven, FO Yarr Talk, Cerulean
Despard, SO Fer Crown and Fortune, Emerald
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rixation

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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Nemo wrote: 
And the trinket could be forage-specific, not only giving the foragers more value, but also making it clear how they got it.

Have I told you recently that I like how you think?
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Epimetheus
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[Nov 16, 2005 6:44:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
imwamphyr

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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dravlid wrote: 
Instead of foraging a gem and having to sail it across the ocean to a far away arch, perhaps a slight change.

Have any capital island able to buy any gem, but the value of the gem is only 1/2 (500 poe). Only the corresponding colored arch would pay full price (1000 poe).

If you were going this route, it'd probably be better to make the buy price for out-of-arch gems be the same as the sell price for that gem spawning at that market. That makes the decision between sailing and selling locally more direct (while still always beating fruit), and you don't need to disable gem spawning at capital markets for cases where a 500 price would be Instant Profit (tm).


Actually, shouldn't it be slightly less than the sell price? Nobody buys and sells at the same price, eh? The difference in price could be dumped as minor poe sink, or given to island control. *shrugs*

Rubies selling at Xi-220
Rubies buying at Xi-150

(just an example, numbers our my arse and all that)

Actually, if we were going to go with this, I'd suggest gems buy at half the sell price. So, if sell is 220, buy would be 110. If sell was 540, buy would be 270. (Prices go up the closer you get to the home arch).

The interesting thing is, in theory and I dunno how you'd code this, you shouldn't be able to sell a gem in the arch you foraged it. Just like Fruit, you should go at least one arch. (Yes, I know you can sell fruit in the same arch for piddly-poe if the palace is buying, that's not the same mechanisms).
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Selling my Grunion Collection!
174 ships, 164 sloops, ALL GRUNIONS!
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by imwamphyr at Nov 16, 2005 8:19:10 AM]
[Nov 16, 2005 6:57:36 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Pirate Muroni [Link]  Go to top 
Danyael

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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Foraging trinkets would have alot of people forage more often though I see a downside to that, if alot more people forage, their labor will go into foraging and not into the stalls they are employeed at, if the number of foraging people gets too big then waiting times for stall items will increase and it would hurt the business.

I could be wrong with that but the first thing I learned when I opened my stall was to try and get workers that don't forage and that don't have any other jobs (the forage part not being a big problem since not a big number of people do so.)
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Danyael
Mascot of Lunchie's Angels
 
Danyael says, "I'm a beautiful, unique snowflake."
Fearthefrail says, "You wear too much eyeliner to be a snowflake, mate."
Danyael says, "I'm a special snowflake.."

[Nov 16, 2005 7:26:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Ruddigore

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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imwamphyr wrote: 
Actually, shouldn't it be slightly less than the sell price? Nobody buys and sells at the same price, eh?

Mrr. The gem trade is entirely artificial anyway, so I don't think it makes much difference :-) I was assuming that no one would bother to buy-and-resell spawned gems just to clear them off the market; if you think that's a worry, sure, set the buy slightly lower.
 
The difference in price could be dumped as minor poe sink, or given to island control. *shrugs*

I don't think there's any PoE sink involved. Just a reduction in the size of a PoE fountain.
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Ruthven, FO Yarr Talk, Cerulean
Despard, SO Fer Crown and Fortune, Emerald
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drc500free

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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From what I remember, Gem prices decay at ~36 poe per long league from the buying Capital, as the crow flies.
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-Darvid
sundancer wrote: 
will you please explain to me one more time why it would not be acceptable to blockade us?
Squid wrote: 
Because I shouldn't have to go through all that effort.

[Nov 16, 2005 7:39:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Ruddigore

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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Foraging trinkets would have alot of people forage more often though I see a downside to that, if alot more people forage, their labor will go into foraging and not into the stalls they are employeed at, if the number of foraging people gets too big then waiting times for stall items will increase and it would hurt the business.

One way to alleviate that might be (and I apologise if this has been suggested before, but a quick search doesn't find it) allowing foraging labour to be applied against, as well as the current 24 hours in advance, up to 24 hours in arrears, to a horizon of one day. That is, if yesterday's labour report showed 6 hours unused, then your first six foraging clicks today would be counted against those, and your seventh and subsequent against future labour as at present. If you used all your hours yesterday, then you'd be using future labour from the start as it is now. I don't believe there's any exploitability in this, since there's no extra hours being created; just more efficient use of the ones we have now.
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Ruthven, FO Yarr Talk, Cerulean
Despard, SO Fer Crown and Fortune, Emerald
[Nov 17, 2005 6:30:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ [Link]  Go to top 
Seamusmclir

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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Gearing this for the casual player doesn't screw the addict player, but gearing it toward the addict player can and does screw the casual player.


The idea as a whole has merit.. What it needs is a 'twist' to make it fun and interesting, to make the trinkets not worthless, and to make it something both the casual and addict player can appreciate.

The idea in my head at present thats brewing is:
Formulas, Special Items, and Maps.

To that end:
Make all foraged trinket items non-tradeable, and make gems trinkets. (Reduce their frequency even more, to at least half of what they are now, preferably more).

Add formulas as purchaseable from existing shoppes as charts are purchaseable from Shipyards. But allow existing shoppes to take orders for completing the formula'd items. (Side Note: This would require adding formulas being purchasable from deluxe stalls so as not to take away the ability of the average merchant from profiting from the labor put into to completing these formulas).

Make having a formula on you the only way to forage said items. (It flips a switch, so we don't wind up with 'posted on the forum' formulaes being a problem.) Formulae will dust in approximately the same time as charts.

To those possessing formula, the old salts have an additional bit of information they'll give out. Where a certain item on your formula may be found. This is completely random, only on uncivilized isles, and is completely accurate for your pirate only. These items will not appear on those islands for other pirates.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Example Difficult Formula -
Gem-Encrusted Crystal Goblet
(Distiller Formula)
1 Ruby
1 Opal
1 Pearl
1 Jet
1 Sapphire
1 Emerald
1 Diamond
1 Gold Nugget (New Trink)
1 Shard Quartz (New Trink)

Once all these items have been collected, you would take them to the Distiller with formulae in hand, and a new item would appear on their list, complete with labor time and cost. (Only Labor costs and a small artisan fee apply).

Labor Costs -
Basic - 0
Skilled - 20
Expert - 50
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Example Medium-Difficulty Formula-
Ruby Slippers
(Tailor Combo)

1 Red Mandragora (don't ask, off the top of my head)
2 Spider Silk
1 Ruby

Labor Costs -
Basic - 10
Skilled - 15
Expert - 20
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The end result items would be tradeable, but would have a 'Crafted By: <name>' on the end. That way a forager could sell these trinkets (Which they do anyway), but it would also be obvious the possessor did not do the work to get them together.


Just a kernel of an idea.
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BehindCurtai

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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Make all foraged trinket items non-tradeable, and make gems trinkets.

This I dislike.

Making them non tradable? Right now if I forage I'm spending labor to earn something I can trade for cash.

Other than that, this is basically like saying "Foraging gives you carryable commodities that you can take to a shop and build something with."

So why not say "Foraging gives you fruit trinkets that you can carry and sell at the palace"?

I mean, if I can carry a giant fancy bed, or a whole house of furniture, I should be able to carry a crate of fruit, right?

I mean, other than just limes :-)
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"We're trying to find the error bars on that number"

Dylan wrote: 
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Seamusmclir

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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The point is, it makes a pirate responsible for finishing the formula, and then creating the item, which *IS* tradeable for bucko-PoE.

Notice I said 'Trinket Items' though.

The fruit and such is still sellable for PoE. :) Only the TRINKETS are untradable. Could make it so only formula trinket items aren't tradeable.
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http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Manannan%27s_Seawolves

Obsidian Calls Us Home.
--------------------------------------------
"It's the damn of a new era!" - Pyn
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Seamusmclir at Nov 17, 2005 8:27:56 AM]
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Chainmaille

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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I like the idea, but I dislike the requirement that it nuke the current gem system. Why are they mutually exclusive? Just because they both use gems? There must be some way around that.

Though granted, I can't think of an elegant method off the top of my head.
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Derakon - Black Plague on Viridian and Sage
[Nov 17, 2005 8:32:36 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Seamusmclir

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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I can.. And did, just forgot to include it.

Leave gems as they are.
Gem TRINKETS only show up if you have the formula.

Its like finding that perfect stone, versus a collection of stones that are valuable.
----------------------------------------
http://www.maghtuireadh.org/
http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Manannan%27s_Seawolves

Obsidian Calls Us Home.
--------------------------------------------
"It's the damn of a new era!" - Pyn
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Seamusmclir at Nov 17, 2005 10:02:42 AM]
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Seamusmclir

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*Bump - Yes, I know*

Wow.. It got that much love huh?
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http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Manannan%27s_Seawolves

Obsidian Calls Us Home.
--------------------------------------------
"It's the damn of a new era!" - Pyn
[Nov 18, 2005 9:24:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.maghtuireadh.org/forum/    seamusmclir [Link]  Go to top 
Chainmaille

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Re: Suggestion: Replaced foraged gems with foraged gem trinkets Reply to this Post
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Threads generally die out once nobody has anything else to add. I've had a few of my ideas get a little constructive criticism before fading off the front page; I can only assume that the devs managed to take notice while they were in the spotlight. Simply bumping a thread without adding anything to it would be against the spirit of the gamethe forum.

Eh.
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Derakon - Black Plague on Viridian and Sage
[Nov 18, 2005 9:40:10 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Seamusmclir

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Duly noted Chainemaille.

Not a typical behaviour of mine, apologies to all.
----------------------------------------
http://www.maghtuireadh.org/
http://yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/Manannan%27s_Seawolves

Obsidian Calls Us Home.
--------------------------------------------
"It's the damn of a new era!" - Pyn
[Nov 18, 2005 10:12:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.maghtuireadh.org/forum/    seamusmclir [Link]  Go to top 
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