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cedricshock

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200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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From the now Ice changelog:

Furniture racks (wardrobe, sword rack, mug shelf) are limited to 20 items. Tailor racks are now limited to 200 articles of clothing.

I manage a fairly small tailoring opperation on Turtle island. It looks like we have, at the moment, almost 250 items on the rack. Everything on the rack is for sale except for about 3 outfits that are being held for managers (these will go into wardrobes once they're available, I'm sure) and a few old display items which are presented to provide a service to pirates planing an outfit. There are many, much larger, tailoring outfits than ours on Midnight, and I'm sure that there are outfits as large or larger on Cobalt and Viridian.

The capital invested in the rack clothing buisness is just huge, easily 120,000 PoE for 200 articles of not very fancy clothing; Expecting shops to cut back by 30,000 PoE or more is a very big change.

What will happen to clothing exceding the limit already on the rack when this is implemented?

If this is pushed onto Midnight et. al. tomorrow it will be with much too little notice.

I'm not trying to complain, we can cope if the clothes arn't lost off the rack, and perhaps purchase a couple wardrobes to hold some under the counter stock, but not if we need to have the wardrobes ready to go tomorrow to keep from losing our investment. However the description in the Ice changelog offers little reassurance.

If you'd like to stop rampant growth of clothes on racks at tailors one approriate measure would be to look, across oceans, at the maximum number of items on the rack at tailoring stalls and shops of various sizes, add some change to make nice big round numbers, and throw on the brakes in a less severe fashion.
----------------------------------------
Sweetums
 
Cleaver wrote: Crashing Puzzle Pirates with your giant rack just isn't a good user experience for anyone.

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Lizthegrey
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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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You will not be able to add additional new items to a rack over the limit, but the items on the rack will not poof.
[Aug 9, 2005 12:57:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    https://plus.google.com/106912596786226524817/posts [Link]  Go to top 
KoshMom

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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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My entire Tailor business has been working with the understanding that I have a large rack of clothes available at all times. With the exception of bandanas, very few of my items are duplicates. 200 items are just too little of a selection!!!

If you need to place limits on tailor rack sizes, please examine the shop logic.

Perhaps a Large Stall has a 200 item limit, but a regular tailor shop should have twice as much as that, and a deluxe tailor shop should have even more than that! It seems ludicrous that a full deluxe tailor shop has the same amount of rack space as a Large Stall.

but please, not tomorrow! I just ordered a bunch of new things not knowing that this limit is in place. And you're not giving us enough time to get rid of excess bandanas, etc, to clear out the rack in anticipation of this new unexpected limitation!

edit: note, i just counted, and I have 366 FEMALE HATS. a limitation of 200 total male/female is unfathomable!

edit2: I just counted inventory. Kelvin Klein on Eta has a total of:
366 female hats
415 female tops
315 female bottoms
120 female shoes

283 male hats
315 male tops
162 male bottoms
150 male boots

for a total of 2126 items. Of which 72 are Display Only. I shall be posting about a sale of items via the proper forum in a very short bit, but it will take FOREVER to get down to 200 items. Can't be done overnite, which is exactly how long I have so I can have the chance to keep business flowing properly, replaceing the popular items, etc.
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Avasta, Past Governor of Namath, captain of Ye Hardy Mates, of the flag RIOT
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by KoshMom at Aug 9, 2005 1:05:32 PM]
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Markoman

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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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I like the idea behind a 200 item limit, but this does remind me of the switch to Old Man's Beard in brown cloth. Perhaps implement this change gradually?
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Markozeta
[Aug 9, 2005 1:09:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.Mersenne.org    Markozetaman [Link]  Go to top 
Morrigan

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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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Terran Wear has nearly 2,000 items, the only doubles are bandanas, men's pants, and boots.
----------------------------------------
~Beryl
Captain of the Pernicious Plunderers
Queen of the Alliterative Aristocracy
Owner- Terran Wear, Gaea
[Aug 9, 2005 1:12:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
MKSparrow

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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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How about if adding additional racks increases the limit? then the size of the shop matters.
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Is it rainning?
[Aug 9, 2005 1:20:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Markoman

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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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MKSparrow wrote: 
How about if adding additional racks increases the limit? then the size of the shop matters.


I thought that you could simply buy a new rack, and poof, you've got another 200 items you can add, now I'm not sure.

Liz? Peghead?

Idea: Why not give a Tailor Shoppe an unlimited rack, and Stalls need to buy wardrobes to compete?
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Markozeta
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Markoman at Aug 9, 2005 1:23:48 PM]
[Aug 9, 2005 1:23:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.Mersenne.org    Markozetaman [Link]  Go to top 
Jamieson630



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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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Quid Pro Clothes has over 1,500 rack items. Businesses like Terran Wear and Quid Pro Clothes built their racks through a lot of hard, honest work. These racks form a critical foundation of the shoppes' business, and were not obtained through exploitation of the game's features. Ergo, there is no earthly reason to take away their ability to maintain racks of that size.

If this is related to the whole lagging out issue with large racks, FIX THE UI so that it can pull subsets of the rack on demand. The current UI is needlessly cumbersome to navigate anyway. Break it down by male/female and by the four types of clothes. That will cut down the size of each single request to less than 15% of what it is now.

But limiting the rack for no good reason? VOTE NO.
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Fuzzybeard
Former co-owner of Quid Pro Clothes on Spring Island
[Aug 9, 2005 1:32:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
butterflys

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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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I'm another that would be very hurt by a rack limit. I have almost 100 items in just the female hats alone. A good rack selection is hard to achieve, but something to have pride in.

And before I owned a tailor shoppe (and even now really) I loved visiting shoppes like Terran Wear, that had a HUGE rack selection. Great ideas for clothes, and no wait to get them. You can try on almost anything your heart desires in those tailors.

Why put a limit on it?
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~TatooLady
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honeydew838

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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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I manage a shoppe (the owner is MIA) and would also find the tailor hurt by this limit. 200 is far too low (essentially only allowing 25 of each general type of item - hats, tops, bottoms, boots - both male & female)

Giving us the option to purchase more racks, or giving larger shoppes more rack space would be more appropriate, IMO

~Honeydew
Bloodlust
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You say I'm a tart like it's a bad thing.
[Aug 9, 2005 1:55:28 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Rappak

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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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I absolutely hate this. This means that you cannot have anything on display to show off outfits to attract people to order them as well as sell things off the racks. This would also kill those for rare clothes, pink rags, black rags, and the sort. No way am i in favor of this at all.
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Rappak, memmer of the oceans.

Rappak- Ex-king of Something Powerful (Cobalt)/ex-Lord of Indestructible Fury, a caged free-bird forever.
Rappak- Officer in Easily Distracted (Midnight)/Mem helper in CT/Where am I?
[Aug 9, 2005 1:57:12 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Cleaver
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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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We are going to give you the option to add more racks shortly.

The reason we're doing this is that large racks cause people's computers to crash. This is just totally broken, and we'll try to fix it, but in the mean time we have to have *some* limit. Crashing Puzzle Pirates with your giant rack just isn't a good user experience for anyone.

However, we hear you, and we've bumped the limit to 1,000. Hopefully this is a good compromise while we do the other stuff.
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honeydew838

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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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Cleaver wrote: 

However, we hear you, and we've bumped the limit to 1,000. Hopefully this is a good compromise while we do the other stuff.


Yay! Thank you :)

That will certainly shut me up until I can purchase more racks ;)


~Honeydew
Bloodlust
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You say I'm a tart like it's a bad thing.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by honeydew838 at Aug 9, 2005 2:00:31 PM]
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butterflys

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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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YAY! 1,000 is MUCH better than 200! And, with hope of being able to expand in the (hopefully) near future, I can live with this. It wouldn't be my choice, but I'm relieved not to have to worry about a 200 article limit.
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~TatooLady
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Jamieson630



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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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honeydew838 wrote: 
Giving us the option to purchase more racks, or giving larger shoppes more rack space would be more appropriate, IMO

Unless the racks in a shoppe are cross-linked so that viewing one shows you the contents of all of them, the system would just present an inconvenience for shoppers.

And of course, cross-linking them would reintroduce the lagging-out issue.

Oh c'mon, just fix the damn UI. One rack, and a UI that's smart enough to only request certain subsets of clothing at any point in time.

(Ooh, Cleaver posted during this. Thanks for the 1K increase. As far as limiting the size at all, can't it wait until the multi-rack feature is also ready? This could still be crippling in the meantime.)
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Fuzzybeard
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[Aug 9, 2005 2:04:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
query

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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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I really dislike this change. While the rack in my shop isn't huge (at the moment), I have had times where I've had a ton of items on my rack (more for sale than anything). I think that if, like Jaime said, it's a matter of lag, then stack the clothing on one another. Say you have 5 red bandanas all of the same condition. Stack them together!

(bandana pic)
Bandana 50 PoE/each
Quantity available (5)

As it is, I gather a ton of clothes, rack them under "display only", and then hold a huge sale. That way I know I can advertise and sell more of them than I would just placing them up one at a time. =\

Please don't make this change!

Edit ~ Yay! Thanks, Cleaver!
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If I weren't such a refined lady, I'd beat the crap out of you. ~ Doris Wodsworth/Washington/Waverley/Wilgus

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Crystallina

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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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Cleaver wrote: 
Crashing Puzzle Pirates with your giant rack just isn't a good user experience for anyone.


So tempted to sig this.
----------------------------------------
Rapmasta26, in a surprisingly accurate assessment of many posters' attitude towards things:

 
PLEASE PEOPLE, IF YOU DONT AGREE DONT REPLY!!!!!!!!!!!

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Matthias

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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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Jamieson630 wrote: 

Oh c'mon, just fix the damn UI. One rack, and a UI that's smart enough to only request certain subsets of clothing at any point in time.


Clearly, you're expecting the fix to come out of the ether and magically make itself.
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I took my own advice.
[Aug 9, 2005 2:18:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Leeksoup

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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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Crystallina wrote: 
Cleaver wrote: 
Crashing Puzzle Pirates with your giant rack just isn't a good user experience for anyone.


So tempted to sig this.

Beat you to it :P
----------------------------------------
-Scylira, mostly retired
ponytailguy wrote: 
Yarr, me harties, let me go grab my knitting needles!

Math problems? Call 1-800-[(10x)(13i)^2]-[sin(xy)/2.362x].
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Peghead
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make that 2000 Reply to this Post
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After Cleaver wheedled 1000 out of me, he showed me this thread and we've now made the limit 2000. (See, we really do love you!)

We will redesign the racks so that only certain clothings are downloaded and shown at a time, and at that time you'll need to buy rack furniture to increase the limit (and we'll lower it from 2000). But that will come later.
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Morrigan

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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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I love you both. Really.


Psst, Peghead, someone ate your avatar...
----------------------------------------
~Beryl
Captain of the Pernicious Plunderers
Queen of the Alliterative Aristocracy
Owner- Terran Wear, Gaea
[Aug 9, 2005 2:28:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jamieson630



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Re: make that 2000 Reply to this Post
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Peghead wrote: 
After Cleaver wheedled 1000 out of me, he showed me this thread and we've now made the limit 2000. (See, we really do love you!)

Given that Terran Wear has a reputation for having the largest rack in the ocean, and they've stated they have under 2,000, this is an excellent decision for the intervening time before multiple racks are implemented. Thank you, Peghead!

Peghead wrote: 
We will redesign the racks so that only certain clothings are downloaded and shown at a time, and at that time you'll need to buy rack furniture to increase the limit (and we'll lower it from 2000). But that will come later.

Even better! You're going to do subset downloading? Great! Does this mean that once multiple racks arrive, customers that click on one rack of a multi-rack shoppe will still be able to see the contents of all the racks in the shoppe (i.e. cross-linked racks)? If so... then this whole thing sounds workable.
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Fuzzybeard
Former co-owner of Quid Pro Clothes on Spring Island
[Aug 9, 2005 2:32:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
honeydew838

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Re: make that 2000 Reply to this Post
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Peghead wrote: 
After Cleaver wheedled 1000 out of me, he showed me this thread and we've now made the limit 2000. (See, we really do love you!)


Oooohh... I love you guys :D

/e does the happy rack dance...


~Honeydew
Bloodlust
----------------------------------------
You say I'm a tart like it's a bad thing.
[Aug 9, 2005 2:38:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Cleaver
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Re: make that 2000 Reply to this Post
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Jamieson630 wrote: 
Even better! You're going to do subset downloading? Great! Does this mean that once multiple racks arrive, customers that click on one rack of a multi-rack shoppe will still be able to see the contents of all the racks in the shoppe (i.e. cross-linked racks)? If so... then this whole thing sounds workable.

I am more inclined to do different kinds of rack; a hat rack, a ladies tops rack, etc. and so proprietors who seek a wider rack selection can simply stack up with special racks... and their customers will *love* browsing the different racks.
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KoshMom

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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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Thank you thank you thank you!!!!!!! The sales's still on, but at least I'm not trying to get rid of half my stock overnight!!!!!!!
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Avasta, Past Governor of Namath, captain of Ye Hardy Mates, of the flag RIOT
[Aug 9, 2005 2:48:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jamieson630



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Cleaver wrote: 
I am more inclined to do different kinds of rack; a hat rack, a ladies tops rack, etc. and so proprietors who seek a wider rack selection can simply stack up with special racks... and their customers will *love* browsing the different racks.

If these different racks are very clearly labeled, I can see this working well. My concern is customers who might have difficulty grasping the finer nuances of rack navigation once there are multiple racks to worry about. (Honestly, I have players who will follow me upstairs into the office so that they can tell me, "I need to buy some clothes." One rack causes their poor brains to overheat.)

I guess my other concern would be... would a shoppe have to buy, say, eight different racks to be able offer items from each of the 8 gender/type combinations? This would possibly force smaller shoppes and stalls to specialize in, say, one particular gender/type combination. Specialization is not a sound business tactic unless you are able to develop a very strong reputation in your area of specialization. Developing that kind of reputation in YPP is difficult, bordering on prohibitive.

More details on this idea of specialized racks would be appreciated.
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Fuzzybeard
Former co-owner of Quid Pro Clothes on Spring Island
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Markoman

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Re: make that 2000 Reply to this Post
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Cleaver wrote: 
Jamieson630 wrote: 
Even better! You're going to do subset downloading? Great! Does this mean that once multiple racks arrive, customers that click on one rack of a multi-rack shoppe will still be able to see the contents of all the racks in the shoppe (i.e. cross-linked racks)? If so... then this whole thing sounds workable.

I am more inclined to do different kinds of rack; a hat rack, a ladies tops rack, etc. and so proprietors who seek a wider rack selection can simply stack up with special racks... and their customers will *love* browsing the different racks.


Smart idea, but leave a general one (with much lower limits then others / very expensive) for small shops.
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Markozeta
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ryboy5

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Yarrrrness Reply to this Post
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Cleaver wrote: 
Jamieson630 wrote: 
Even better! You're going to do subset downloading? Great! Does this mean that once multiple racks arrive, customers that click on one rack of a multi-rack shoppe will still be able to see the contents of all the racks in the shoppe (i.e. cross-linked racks)? If so... then this whole thing sounds workable.

I am more inclined to do different kinds of rack; a hat rack, a ladies tops rack, etc. and so proprietors who seek a wider rack selection can simply stack up with special racks... and their customers will *love* browsing the different racks.


Whoa! I had this idea before I saw this post! lol

Definitely article specific racks would be awesome. Also I think being able to choose in the options like "display by colors" then you choose from a pull down when you enter a rack to show "only items with lime" etc. etc.

Or even with the implementing of furniture, shoppe owners could make almost department stores with the men's clothes downstairs, women's clothes upstairs and vice versa.

There are many great ways to go about this, IMO.

EDIT: [derail]Also we need a clothes reset button so we don't have to leave and come back in lol[/derail]
----------------------------------------
==Gameboy, nerd of the Seas==
Those are some nice pants.

Poseidon says, "then tell me THAT ONE!! PWEESE"
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Rappak

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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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Yay! that is so lovely!

hm... Why the low number of 20 for the mug and sword racks? If I wanted to do a pre-made business, there's 14 types of swords and 8 types of mugs. I would like to see it increased to 50. That should give enough room for the stalls and shoppes to have a nice selection of pre-mades. Or is the 20 just for racks for home use and there will be a bigger one for stalls and shoppes? If this needs to be split, then please do.
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Rappak, memmer of the oceans.

Rappak- Ex-king of Something Powerful (Cobalt)/ex-Lord of Indestructible Fury, a caged free-bird forever.
Rappak- Officer in Easily Distracted (Midnight)/Mem helper in CT/Where am I?
[Aug 9, 2005 8:30:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
fanta

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Re: 200 Article limit on tailoring stalls is too low, too soon Reply to this Post
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I actually think it's very uneven, with 20 items for both wardrobes, sword racks and mug shelves. As mentioned already, there aren't even 20 mugs or swords. And the wardrobe holding 20 items, means you only have room for 5 outfits. People generally have outfits, not separate clothes. If i could store 20 swords, i'd also want to store 20 outfits, not separate clothing items. It just feels unbalanced. I feel the ratio of mugs/swords/clothes should be more like 1/2/4. There are almost twice as many swords as there are mugs. [size=9]Note, i have a distilling stall, having 20 mugs on one shelf is great for the distill, but i still feel the ratio isn't right.

Also a question, i'm assuming that if you buy a second wardrobe/rack/shelf, you'll have room in there for another 20 items?
----------------------------------------
Pleun,
First Mate of Monkey Militia, TO in Carpe Noctem, Midnight ocean,
owner of the Dainty Dolphin and the Mystical Dragon.

Avatar made from artwork by Kagaya
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