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BehindCurtai

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A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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(I thought I had posted this already, but could not find it).

With the goal of "What is the minimum change needed to prevent greifing blockades", how about this.

A construction site, when finished, stays in "Paused" state (or some other name) for 8 days. During this time, it is still considered a construction site, and transfers in a blockade. However, it does not count against the limit of two construction sites.

Such a building may be "destroyed" by the govenor by clicking the appropriate button.

At the same time, there is no reason to limit to two construction sites at one time, or per week. They can now be unlimited.

Benefits/Ideas/rationale:

If a 2 am blockade is declared, you now can say "We'll put up a small defense force just in case". You no longer have to mobolize your whole flag.

If you lose the island, you get one chance next weekend to take it back. If you succede, you can prevent any of the buildings from completing, or altering your landscape.

This also means that if you take an island, and are building stuff, you have to be able to defend the island to keep what you build.

Suddenly, shop building is no more "We caught them off guard, lucky us". Now it's "We have to defend the place to keep our shops".
----------------------------------------
"We're trying to find the error bars on that number"

Dylan wrote: 
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Matthias

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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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You can also use them to get over the food limit so you can do a zerg rush.

Matt,
at least I'm giving it a bump
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Skal

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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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how about adding destruction sites? To place a destruction site on a structure, the governor must provide all of the goods required to build the structure (including the paint if you feel like it) as well as all the labor. These destruction sites work exactly the same as construction sites. Only 2 may be placed per week, they transfer with blockades, etc.

Once the destruction site is finished, the structure is reduced to a pile of rubble. The shop owner walks away with all of the physical makings of the shop as well as any goods it may hold (in bid ticket form from the market if that makes it easier) and flags have an incentive to take islands with shops on them. If the shop owner wants to fight the destruction, he can 1) blockade the island to gain control of and cancel the destruction or 2) pay higher wages than the destruction site in an attempt to pull labor away from its destruction 3) work a deal with the managers of the destruction site.

meh. 2 poe from a sleepy pirate
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Sadiekate
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skington

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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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I like the idea, but

Skal wrote: 
Once the destruction site is finished, the structure is reduced to a pile of rubble. The shop owner walks away with all of the physical makings of the shop as well as any goods it may hold (in bid ticket form from the market if that makes it easier)


What about finished goods?
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Leaddolphin, Captain of Serve No Porpoise, Valiant Prince on Cobalt. I want your Plaices!
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Varthlokkur



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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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skington wrote: 
I like the idea, but

Skal wrote: 
Once the destruction site is finished, the structure is reduced to a pile of rubble. The shop owner walks away with all of the physical makings of the shop as well as any goods it may hold (in bid ticket form from the market if that makes it easier)


What about finished goods?


Also in bid ticket form, if they require a hold; otherwise they go to the owner.
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Vistr of Innocent, of Crimson Tide
- Midnight, the grudge-holding ocean
[Jun 8, 2005 3:29:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    craigld [Link]  Go to top 
Rick9109

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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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Great idea, Skal. Shopkeeper gets the stuff to make his shop somewhere else, island owner gets the shopkeeper their off island. I think it's a fun idea.
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Rome
Pirates of the Damned, Crimson Tide.
I don't care what it did to them, the game's been good to me.
[Jun 8, 2005 7:18:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    rick9109    cactusrome [Link]  Go to top 
Tedv



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I don't think grief blockades have anything to do with placing shops. That's just a perk if you win.
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Varthlokkur



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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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No ted.... but limiting what the attacker can do in the first week of ownership limits the absolute need to be there for every last defence.
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Vistr of Innocent, of Crimson Tide
- Midnight, the grudge-holding ocean
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shagie



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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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Varthlokkur wrote: 
skington wrote: 
I like the idea, but

Skal wrote: 
Once the destruction site is finished, the structure is reduced to a pile of rubble. The shop owner walks away with all of the physical makings of the shop as well as any goods it may hold (in bid ticket form from the market if that makes it easier)


What about finished goods?


Also in bid ticket form, if they require a hold; otherwise they go to the owner.


What about finished goods that go into booty rather than a hold (paint brush, wisking potion, swords, clothing racks...)?
[Jun 8, 2005 7:59:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Tedv



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This idea still doesn't stop them from placing a construction site in the middle of a street. Even if it gets condemned, the landscape looks ugly because of it. Or worse, they could build over the produced resources (eg. wood, iron).

I think the real problem is twofold. One, there is only 24 hours of advance notice. And two, the attacker chooses the time of the blockade. I'd like to see one week's notice for blockades, and the attacker must specify three times. The defender then chooses one of them. (If they don't within 2 days, a random time is selected.) And then put some kind of restriction on what times are allowed such as "each time must be at least 4 hours before the next proposed time, but no more than 8 hours before". This will create a fairly good range of times in the day, so defenders never have to pick a 2 am defense time if they don't want-- the three times will span at least 8 hours, and up to 16 hours. That's a good range.
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Varthlokkur



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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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shagie wrote: 
Varthlokkur wrote: 

Also in bid ticket form, if they require a hold; otherwise they go to the owner.


What about finished goods that go into booty rather than a hold (paint brush, wisking potion, swords, clothing racks...)?

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Vistr of Innocent, of Crimson Tide
- Midnight, the grudge-holding ocean
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ihope127



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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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shagie wrote: 
Varthlokkur wrote: 
Also in bid ticket form, if they require a hold; otherwise they go to the owner.


What about finished goods that go into booty rather than a hold (paint brush, wisking potion, swords, clothing racks...)?


Varthlokkur wrote: 
otherwise they go to the owner.


They go into the owner's inventory :)
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No soy un número. ¡Soy un hombre gratis!
[Jun 8, 2005 8:12:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Rick9109

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A week notice and defender being able to choose the times would curtail griefing, at least partly. But it also leaves the attackers without the only advantages they had. Hrm.
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I don't care what it did to them, the game's been good to me.
[Jun 8, 2005 8:30:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    rick9109    cactusrome [Link]  Go to top 
Varthlokkur



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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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Tedv wrote: 

I think the real problem is twofold....


Not bad. I still prefer the idea of decoupling ownership and blockades though.

There's a lot of core game design decisions at the base level that make protracted longterm conflicts, and game design at the high end like we have now, incredibly ugly.

The core of the game design is that pirates are essentially invulnerable. You can wear down resources with attrition, but it's easy enough for a sufficiently motivated flag to use skill and/or numbers to rebuild blockade fleets and supplies in a hurry.

I've played in games with similar attributes before. Inevitably, when two people want the same thing and only one can achieve it, one or both sides turns to trying to convince the other to stop playing against them. And, inevitably, some people cross the line between 'making you not want to compete against me for this' and 'making you not want to play the game at all'.

This is, based on my past experience, inevitably going to be a recurring problem the game is going to constantly have to deal with so long as it uses the current system of determining island ownership through protracted combat.

Much as I know Cleaver wanted to get away from Island auctions, I hold that the concept of coupling island auctions with fame thresholds and making blockading about something other than island control (raids), if properly implemented, is one of the few ways out of the fix you're in, mechanics wise.

You can't on the one hand say that you want Islands to be structured communities where flags pour their hearts into making them great places for players to be, and on the other hand tell them that their ownership is ephemeral, subject to removal on a day's notice, without expecting trouble.

Ideas that make islands 'worth more', or blockades 'more balanced' or 'more interesting', fail to address this underlying problem. Merchants and pirates will get along better when they have different high end goals, especially if they're ones that those of us that like both can pursue.
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- Midnight, the grudge-holding ocean
[Jun 8, 2005 8:34:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    craigld [Link]  Go to top 
Tedv



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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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You're really talking about two different things. First, there's the issue of making blockades provide a suitable reward. (As it stands right now, the first person to win a blockade on an island gets a huge reward and everyone else gets a very poor reward, if any.) Second, there's the issue of making the blockade puzzle itself fun.

Think about it like this... Since there's little reward for repeatedly blockading an island, most of the time people do it to cause grief to others. The griefing is only possible because a lot of the blockade "puzzle" isn't that fun-- it requires orchestrating large numbers of people in a very short time frame. Even if you made the rewards for winning a blockade larger and more consistant (a noble objective, mind you), it wouldn't solve the griefing problem.

There are really two issues that need to be solved regarding blockades.
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BehindCurtai

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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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Cleaver wrote: 
Victorious blockaders are incentivised to over-build on islands, to no substantial benefit to anyone

the intent of the sytem -- that islands are a fixed resource that change hands


Proposed solution:

1. All shops change ownership when the blockade happens. Repeat, **ALL** shops.

Now there is incentive to blockade.

1b. Any shop owner that wishes to "cash out" may sell their shop to Vilya. Vilya will close the shop, not pay taxes, etc, resulting in the shop crumbling unless the island is taken in a blockade.

This is a limited time offer, expires 14 days after the announcement.

This solves the tarting of "But that's not what I expected when I bought this place".

2. Large islands are limited to <n> shops (6? 10? Island specific?)

Existing overbuilt islands are not directly affected. However, a takeover gives someone the ability to shut things down. Additionally, if an island is overbuilt, the palace is assessed additional taxes, to represent the additional island maintenence overhead over and beyond any individual shop's maintenence. (Example: The more built-up an island, the more the sewer/sanitation systems have to work harder).

3. To counter the "Must defend/respond to blockades" factor, I'd like to suggest the following:

1. A colonized island, when blockaded, and the attackers win, has status "Government unstable".

2. A "Government unstable" island, if blockaded the next weekend, may be taken.
If taken, it stays as "Government unstable", but with a new government.
If it does not change hands, it becomes "Colonized".

3. An uncolonized island, when initially taken, is "Government unstable".

4. All buildings transfer to the new government when it moves from "Government unstable" to "Colonized".

So, to give an example, assuming that this system is in place, ohh, say October of this year:

Sat or Sun, Oct 1 or 2: Island attacked. Attackers win. Island is now "unstable".

Oct 8-9: If island is not attacked, the island reverts to stable colonized. Otherwise, any flag that can win the blockade claims the island.

If the defenders win, it returns to stable, Colonized.
If a different flag wins, it is still unstable, but with a new governor in charge of the palace and infrastructure buildings.

Oct 15-16: Island may be attacked again. Again, island may change hands.

If the island changes hands, it is still unstable.
If the island does not change hands, then it becomes "Colonized", and all shops become the property of the new govenor.

The benefits:

1. You get the multi-tiered system that people are asking for.
2. To take and keep an island requires all of:
A: The initial attack, that might have been treated less importantly than it actually was,
B: TWO MORE attacks, one where the would-be taker is the attacker, one where they are the defender,

3. If there is a serious threat to your island, you know a week ahead of time, and can reschedule NOT based on a single 24-hour notice

4. Even if you lost that first "serious" attack, and are no longer the defender, you still get to try again as the attacker.

Again, the summary:
1. Any time a colonized island is attacked successfully, it becomes "unstable".
2. An uncolonized island, or an unstable island, if attacked successfully, changes hands and becomes unstable. All infrastructure buildings transfer. Transfer flag is set.
3. Any unstable island that does not change hands becomes a stable, colonized island. If transfer flag is set, then all shops transfer over. Transfer flag is cleared.

4. Economic penalties assessed against islands that are "overbuilt" until such time as the excess shops are closed down.

5. For a brief time (2 weeks? 1 month? Until further notice?), Vilya will buy back shops that are no longer wanted under the new rules. These will be closed, taxes unpaid, and allowed to crumble, unless the island is taken.

** 6. (Added after reading TedV's comments): You can not place construction sites while in "unstable" mode. You must have a stable government (that has held the island and potentially survived attacks) before you can build, either over streets, over commods, or just to make an eyesore.
----------------------------------------
"We're trying to find the error bars on that number"

Dylan wrote: 
Why buy sham poo when real poo is so readily available

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Varthlokkur



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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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Tedv wrote: 
You're really talking about two different things. First, there's the issue of making blockades provide a suitable reward. (As it stands right now, the first person to win a blockade on an island gets a huge reward and everyone else gets a very poor reward, if any.) Second, there's the issue of making the blockade puzzle itself fun.

Think about it like this... Since there's little reward for repeatedly blockading an island, most of the time people do it to cause grief to others. The griefing is only possible because a lot of the blockade "puzzle" isn't that fun-- it requires orchestrating large numbers of people in a very short time frame. Even if you made the rewards for winning a blockade larger and more consistant (a noble objective, mind you), it wouldn't solve the griefing problem.

There are really two issues that need to be solved regarding blockades.


I think you're missing my points, Ted.

I'm not arguing that the reward for winning any one blockade should be larger. If anything, it could as easily stand to be *smaller*, so long as it was consistent.

You're also assuming that two people fighting back and forth over the same thing is inherently done to grief, whereas my argument is that it is something which inevitably leads to griefing in the long run due to the inability of evenly matched opponents to force each other to stop without wearing down the other side's *players*, because you really can't wear down their resources that much in the long haul. The game mechanics now, with fame, even more explicitly *reward* tactics designed to make your opponents stop playing, because if you keep a flag from being willing to sail, down goes their fame, up goes your safety.
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Vistr of Innocent, of Crimson Tide
- Midnight, the grudge-holding ocean
[Jun 8, 2005 7:53:21 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    craigld [Link]  Go to top 
monix



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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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BehindCurtai wrote: 
1. All shops change ownership when the blockade happens. Repeat, **ALL** shops.

Now there is incentive to blockade. "


I think this is a good idea. Why shouldn't shops be transferred with the island? Running a shop is something that is desired by a lot of players, and with the current system shops hardly ever change hands.
Changing the way this works would cause a lot of HWFO from those owning shops today, but would probably be welcomed by a lot more. And Vilya buying the shops back would to some extent cover the economical consequences from such a change.

I would prefer islands to have a specific amount of shops though (decided by Vilya). This doesn't even have to be the same amount as they currently have and could also vary regardless of actual size.
(If population increases a lot, Vilya might decide to open another shop on that island).
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KoshMom

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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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monix wrote: 
BehindCurtai wrote: 
1. All shops change ownership when the blockade happens. Repeat, **ALL** shops.

Now there is incentive to blockade. "


I think this is a good idea. Why shouldn't shops be transferred with the island?


I think it's a horrible idea. What if the owner of the shop goes on a 3 day vacation, prepared for this time off by paying the rent 12 days in advance, and comes back to see that everything they worked for in the past year has been taken away from them? While shops often have the entire "owner and 5 managers" it's often only 1 or 2 people who actually run the shop, and the others simply fill in as needed. If those key people are gone, the whole shop just disappears, and the shops' inventory, rack (if a tailor), bid tickets, coffers, etc are at the mercy of whoever just took over the island, no matter how transient the new island holders are.

Thus, for a 100,000 chest, and some fighting, an attacking flag reaps millions in rewards from perhaps just one shop where the owner didn't get a chance to take all the stuff out (including the annoying Rack, to reprice or else watch the expensive clothing start to age).

What's the store owner supposed to do? Put their life on hold and come to the store during the blockade in the event that the home island flag loses? Heck, removing all those items is not a 30 second operation. All an unfortunite shop owner needs is to have an electrical storm knock out their power for an hour during the blockade, or to have their parents insist that they come and visit Aunt Bertha, and the store, plus all their inventory, is gone.
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Avasta, Past Governor of Namath, captain of Ye Hardy Mates, of the flag RIOT
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atteSmythe

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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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The obvious solution for inventory is to allow designation of a ship or ships which would automatically be filled with the contents of the shop (incl. coffers) in the event of a takeover.

I think I read somewhere yesterday that all the stuff in the shop could be converted to bid tickets for later retrieval at the market - there's no reason that rack items couldn't work in the same way, I suppose.

Notorious atteSmythe,
just thinking that a technical limitation today shouldn't define the game mechanic of tomorrow
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Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]

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cmdrzoom

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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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KoshMom wrote: 
I think it's a horrible idea. What if the owner of the shop goes on a 3 day vacation, prepared for this time off by paying the rent 12 days in advance, and comes back to see that everything they worked for in the past year has been taken away from them?


Forgive me if I bang my drum yet again.

Here is another example of playstyles in conflict. On the one hand, the Ringers and many players want the ocean to be dynamic, islands to change hands without hard feelings, etc. On the other hand, you have people who have invested months of work into something - a shop, an island, whatever - and don't want to see all of that time and effort wasted/taken away in a single evening.

Is it possible to balance the needs/wishes of these two groups? Is it practical for them to co-exist in the same game? What will be lost if either side gets its way - an ocean with no permanency or ownership, or an ocean with no new opportunity or change?
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Starhawk of Mad Mutineers, Azure
Catalina of Twilight's Sabre, Cobalt
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Scarblac

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cmdrzoom wrote: 
Here is another example of playstyles in conflict. On the one hand, the Ringers and many players want the ocean to be dynamic, islands to change hands without hard feelings, etc. On the other hand, you have people who have invested months of work into something - a shop, an island, whatever - and don't want to see all of that time and effort wasted/taken away in a single evening.

Is it possible to balance the needs/wishes of these two groups?

In my opinion, the fundamental problem is that flags are large groups of people, and shops are a lot of fun for and much of the gameplay of individuals. Taking shops away from the individuals based on what happens in the conflicts between the large groups is unfair.

I think there should be benefits to having an island that are good for everyone in the flag. Fun things, I don't know, have a bunch of familiars or so that everyone in the flag has a chance to have now and then (different colouring for each island). A special ship for each island, that could be commanded by any officer in the flag. Get some jewelry on your hat for every blockade your flag won that you were active in. These are pretty random ideas, I'm sure others have many better ones - but flag wars should be about winning and losing benefits for all the people in the flag.

The blockades on Cobalt I was in had some jobbers trying to get the ship they were on get sunk because they wanted an injury. Nice if that sort of thing decides about the fate of your shop.
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Enoch, Captain of Single Malt, on Cobalt
Royal of Keepers of the Light
[Jun 9, 2005 3:52:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
cmdrzoom

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Exactly. That's because injuries are one of the few things that the average pirate gets out of a blockade - and even that's a roll of the dice, not a sure thing.
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Starhawk of Mad Mutineers, Azure
Catalina of Twilight's Sabre, Cobalt
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imwamphyr

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Scarblac wrote: 
I think there should be benefits to having an island that are good for everyone in the flag.

And that seems to be the bottom line of the problem, in a nutshell.

Scarblac wrote: 
Get some jewelry on your hat for every blockade your flag won that you were active in.

Interesting idea. Not enough to solf the problem, think skulls from skellies-how excited many people were about the new feature even though all it was good for was a portrait, and now anybody who has a skull already, has dropped some of their excitement. HOWEVER, I quoted it because I still think it's a cute idea! Speial items available only to those in a flag, AT THE TIME their flag won the blockade. Untradeable items, for sure. Do they just look good? Do they have a purpose? Debatable.

Special blockade "items" could just be something you'd see on a portrait, and that would be cool. Or, they could have limited powers. I say limited because MOST ideas I see posted are too much, IMO. I loved a territory suggestion I saw posted elsewhere, where'in you might get different features in your territory, and I loved the idea but the benefits suggested were too great.

Benefits would have to balance out, giving you added incentive to blockade, without giving you too great of an advantage over the general population, without being so great as to prevent your desire to ever sail outside your "territory" ever again.

But I like this item idea...even if it would just be for portraits or clothing. I'd like it if it had an effect, too...(never an affect in individual puzzles, I'm totally against that)...but even if it was as little as "You posess a ruby arch Gem which you won in the blockade on Jorvik. This gem allowes you to use 5% less rum than you would normally consume whenever you sail within the Ruby Arch". Or...win 5% more on pillages within that arch...but something SMALL. A nudge, if you will. Nothing major.
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Selling my Grunion Collection!
174 ships, 164 sloops, ALL GRUNIONS!
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BehindCurtai

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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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KoshMom wrote: 
monix wrote: 
BehindCurtai wrote: 
1. All shops change ownership when the blockade happens. Repeat, **ALL** shops.

Now there is incentive to blockade. "


I think this is a good idea. Why shouldn't shops be transferred with the island?


I think it's a horrible idea. What if the owner of the shop goes on a 3 day vacation, prepared for this time off by paying the rent 12 days in advance, and comes back to see that everything they worked for in the past year has been taken away from them?


BehindCurtai wrote: 
2. To take and keep an island requires all of:
A: The initial attack, that might have been treated less importantly than it actually was,
B: TWO MORE attacks, one where the would-be taker is the attacker, one where they are the defender,

3. If there is a serious threat to your island, you know a week ahead of time, and can reschedule NOT based on a single 24-hour notice
...
Again, the summary:
1. Any time a colonized island is attacked successfully, it becomes "unstable".
2. An uncolonized island, or an unstable island, if attacked successfully, changes hands and becomes unstable. All infrastructure buildings transfer. Transfer flag is set.
3. Any unstable island that does not change hands becomes a stable, colonized island. If transfer flag is set, then all shops transfer over. Transfer flag is cleared.


So, you'd have the first attack, which might have been ignored, and then a week later a must-fight-and-win battle for the attackers, and then a week later at the earlest the attackers would claim the island and shops. That's assuming that someone else didn't attack and win that week.

That would require a vacation that missed three weekends (just over two weeks). Not impossible, but you've probably hired an active manager for that much absense time, no?

 
What if the owner of the shop goes on a vacation

What if the owner of an island goes on vacation? They can come back and find the island gone. Same now with shops.

If you want a low pressure "shop" that won't go away, get a stall.
If you want the valuable, limited, permanent land, be active in the island's affairs and running. Or make a deal with the incoming flag.

Now, make shops better than stalls, and you're finished. I think shop maintenence should be around medium stall rent level, not about 2x that.
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DaneT

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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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imwamphyr wrote: 
Scarblac wrote: 
I think there should be benefits to having an island that are good for everyone in the flag.

And that seems to be the bottom line of the problem, in a nutshell.

Scarblac wrote: 
Get some jewelry on your hat for every blockade your flag won that you were active in.

But I like this item idea...even if it would just be for portraits or clothing. I'd like it if it had an effect, too...(never an affect in individual puzzles, I'm totally against that)...but even if it was as little as "You posess a ruby arch Gem which you won in the blockade on Jorvik. This gem allowes you to use 5% less rum than you would normally consume whenever you sail within the Ruby Arch". Or...win 5% more on pillages within that arch...but something SMALL. A nudge, if you will. Nothing major.


I heartily indorse this product.

Limits on the amount of gems you can gain? Time period they last?
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Starfaller



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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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Scarblac wrote: 

The blockades on Cobalt I was in had some jobbers trying to get the ship they were on get sunk because they wanted an injury. Nice if that sort of thing decides about the fate of your shop.


I never could see why we would want to reward people for sinking. I think there should be a penalty for sinking of some sort, and I believe that this may have been the intention of the design of the injury idea until everybody decided it was cool to be injured. Injuries are now rewards of failing to do a good job. Maybe the ones to be rewarded are the ones who were able to sink an opponents vessel(could make sense, lots of hard work, an eye could get shot out for carpenting too quickly, a hand or leg blown off from too much powder in guns, etc). Not saying those stations should get the injuries, keep it as slim a chance as it is now, just switch it to sinking instead of being sunk.

I also still feel all blockades should be forced sinking. This would help to make sure only those serious about trying to take an island would do it. Would also help with the economy, too.

But this thread is about the shop game in blockades. Although I haven't thought it out thoroughly, how about if an attacker wins the island, the current shopowners(more leasing than ownership though) then must pay the new owners of the island a set amount of PoE or the new island owners can repossess the deed. This would at least give the folks who own a shop on an island a choice of what happens to their shop and the opportunity to either remove or sell of commods before the new island owner takes the shop.

I do like TedV's ideas though about the more advance warning and time choices to a certain extent but remember, that a timezone good for one person may be really bad for another. My daughter lives in Japan and I live in the USA. She always sees tomorrow long before I do so that a convenient time for her is not a convenient time for me and I think its important for the attackers to have more of a say of the time of attack, but they better be serious about it and not just trying to get someone else nervous. Also, it would be easier to get puzzlers to stay on a blockade if the blockade rounds were shorter. Most people cannot dedicate 5 hours at a time for a blockade and in fact, with the "You've been playing too long" message, I've seen many people suddenly say they have to log off cuz they got that message. Also, I know many people who must work on the weekends, so I feel that the blockade weekend should be a three day weekend not a two day weekend.

Food for thought ;)
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monix



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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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KoshMom wrote: 
I think it's a horrible idea. What if the owner of the shop goes on a 3 day vacation, prepared for this time off by paying the rent 12 days in advance, and comes back to see that everything they worked for in the past year has been taken away from them? While shops often have the entire "owner and 5 managers" it's often only 1 or 2 people who actually run the shop, and the others simply fill in as needed. If those key people are gone, the whole shop just disappears, and the shops' inventory, rack (if a tailor), bid tickets, coffers, etc are at the mercy of whoever just took over the island, no matter how transient the new island holders are.


Who says that inventory has to be dusted or handed over unless you remove it?
There has been many ideas on how to transfer stock when the shop changes hands, and I'm sure the developers have seen and reviewed them.

If they find a way to let all inventory be transferred, for instance downgraded to a deluxe stall if it originally came from a deluxe stall (just link the existing rack to a stall instead to avoid repricing) or by using ships as temporary storage.
Whatever way they choose, if they can find a way that doesn't harm the shop/stall owner in regards to inventory and racked items, and the financial aspect is covered by Vilya buying the shops back once and for all, would you still think this was a bad idea and why?
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Bartiddu



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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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In principle, I support the call for shop ownership to change on island ownership change.

It just seems a bit strange that there's a game mechanic for forcibly taking over an island, while there's none for taking the shops on that island.
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[Jun 9, 2005 7:34:47 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
imwamphyr

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Re: A change in shop building to solve blockades Reply to this Post
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DaneT quoted a bunch of stuff about possible gems you could win in a blockade that might just look pretty in portraits, or might add a benefit of some time to pillage related activities.
DaneT wrote: 

I heartily indorse this product.

Limits on the amount of gems you can gain? Time period they last?


You bring up a good point. I'd suggest that if that would depend on how they ended up. If their only effect was to look pretty on your portrait, they could be like the skellie skulls, and never dust, with no limit?

If they actually did have a function, such as increasing payout (slightly) or decreasing rum usage (again, slightly), then you would need something. I would rather see a dusting scenario rather than a limit, personally.

How about, you only retain the gem (or whatever the prize may be) for as long as you remain in the flag, and the flag remains in control of an island in the gems arch? Of course, this would mean jobbers wouldn't have the ability to receive the reward...but the idea is to give a FLAG incentive to blockade. Not to give incentive to jobbers to help with a blockade. Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way, in regards to conversations recently where all the jobbers want to sink now and get their injury. Maybe this shouldn't be for the flag at ALL-let the devs come up with another idea for flagmates, and let this reward be for ALL jobbers, in or out of the flag (but then it would have to be dusting if again, it was for more than just a pretty picture). Or...maybe this...

Gems can now be won in blockades. Any pirate fighting on the winning side of the blockade will win a Gem for the arch in which the blockade was fought. Gems are non-tradeable and non-dusting, however they will be lost if control of the island changes hands.

Gems have no effect on game play to pirates jobbing from outside the blockading flag. They are an available item in Portraits, and can be collected. If a pirate performs in winning blockades in every arch, (some special item in which all gems are laid) can be held in Portraits.

Gems have a small token effect on game play to pirates from within the island winning flag. Possible ideas for this effect are Increase in brigand booty payouts by 5% (OR LESS) while pillaging in the gems respective arch, or a decrease in the consumption of rum by 5% (or less) which pillagine in same arch.

If we did go with the effect, perhaps a time limit should be installed where the effect would wear off, but the item would still be available for portraits. Time frame would be about the same as fine clothing to dust, or some such. I know I'm slightly derailing this thread, and I appologize, but this idea is tickling my fancy.
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