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query

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Pirate deletion grace period

A couple days ago a well-known pirate, Nylons, accidentally deleted her pirate when she went to delete and alt. In doing so, she lost hundreds of thousands of poe, expensive black clothes, all her pictures, some expensive swords, and all of her hard earned stats and memming. When asked, the OM's said that nothing could be done to restore anything. Considering the fact that she was a dedicated pirate, a key member of a large and popular crew/flag, and a very generous pirate all around, many of us from the crew/flag were upset to hear that nothing could be done.

While I can understand that a delete is a delete, I think there should be a grace period before a pirate's information is completely and totally deleted from the ocean. On many journal sites, 30 days is given upon decision to delete a journal before it is unrecoverable. Why not have a period such as this available for Y!PP as well?

In having this as a feature, it would prevent such accidental deletions, or let a pirate change his/her mind about the deletion. This should especially be a feature on pirates that are over 2 weeks old, rather than alt characters that are created and kept for very short periods of time.

Sure, this is just a game, and pirates can be started over. But the fact is, many of us do spend a good amount of time working on our stats. Nylons had some of the highest stats in the ocean, and it's a shame that nothing can be done to get her pirate and goods back, or at least her stats and poe. A feature like this would be beneficial to Y!PP, as when an alt is created, the pirates change positions in the choice window. I'm sure this is not the first time it has happened, nor will it be the last time. I know that I would be glad to have such a feature, as there have been a few times I've come close to deleting my main pirate!
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If I weren't such a refined lady, I'd beat the crap out of you. ~ Doris Wodsworth/Washington/Waverley/Wilgus

Avatar by Escape
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by query at Feb 19, 2005 11:01:36 AM]
[Feb 19, 2005 11:01:36 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.riddlersrealm.com [Link]  Go to top 
Lizthegrey
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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

Isn't the requirement to type in your password again sufficient to be an "are you really sure" check? I don't see how this suggestion could hurt, however.
[Feb 19, 2005 11:08:19 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    https://plus.google.com/106912596786226524817/posts [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

The mind boggles at this "accident," since as Liz says, it's not like it's one mouse click away.

I guess that as long as every effect that could possibly happen still does (namely decay), it would be ok, I guess. Seriously, though, at some point people have to take responsibility for doing dumb stuff to themselves.
[Feb 19, 2005 11:12:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
BehindCurtai

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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

There is a problem here.

A pirate does not have a fixed slot on the screen, and their slots DO change.

It is very possible to think you are deleting one pirate and actually deleting another -- this has happened to me, and I caught it on the "type password to confirm" page.

But still, no verification, none of significance.

How about...

Listing the booty of the pirate being deleted?
Showing the total poe of the pirate?
Showing the doubloon value of badges?
Listing deeds held?

Or something, just so you know that you're not deleting a main when you want to delete an alt.
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"We're trying to find the error bars on that number"

Dylan wrote: 
Why buy sham poo when real poo is so readily available

[Feb 19, 2005 1:10:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://StrictConstitution.BlogSpot.Com [Link]  Go to top 
Lizthegrey
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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

I think that works, and shouldn't be too hard implementation-wise.
[Feb 19, 2005 1:11:21 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    https://plus.google.com/106912596786226524817/posts [Link]  Go to top 
Rick9109

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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

Hrm. I was not aware of the slots changing. They've never changed on either account.
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Rome
Pirates of the Damned, Crimson Tide.
I don't care what it did to them, the game's been good to me.
[Feb 19, 2005 1:23:12 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    rick9109    cactusrome [Link]  Go to top 
sin1man

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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

The slots hold your pirates in alphabetical order. When I added an alt with a letter before "s" my two pirates with "s" as the beginning moved. However they do not change randomly and a person should be used to which slot is which pirate.
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Simman

Nemo says, "I typo too."
[Feb 19, 2005 1:26:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Simman3 [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

BehindCurtai wrote: 
There is a problem here.

A pirate does not have a fixed slot on the screen, and their slots DO change.

If that's the problem, that can change.
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-Avatar by AlexisAngel-
[Feb 19, 2005 1:28:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lallaria



Joined: Jul 20, 2003
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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

Also, most things that I've seen require you to type the name of the character you are deleting, not the password.

While I understand the password prevents the "little brother" syndrome, maybe having to type your pirate's name and password would be sufficient.
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Lallaria
[size=10]Retired
[Feb 19, 2005 1:44:09 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Lallaria [Link]  Go to top 
WhoIsYou



Joined: Jul 21, 2003
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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

sin1man wrote: 
The slots hold your pirates in alphabetical order. When I added an alt with a letter before "s" my two pirates with "s" as the beginning moved. However they do not change randomly and a person should be used to which slot is which pirate.



I have three pirates. The first and last start with "W" and the middle starts with "M". They are all in the slot I first created them in.
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WhoIsYou
- Scurviest dog in the sea (Could ye spare an orange?)
[Feb 19, 2005 1:44:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Rick9109

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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

sin1man wrote: 
The slots hold your pirates in alphabetical order. When I added an alt with a letter before "s" my two pirates with "s" as the beginning moved. However they do not change randomly and a person should be used to which slot is which pirate.


What the 'f' my client is broken. My pirates have always gone in the order of creation.


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Rome
Pirates of the Damned, Crimson Tide.
I don't care what it did to them, the game's been good to me.
[Feb 19, 2005 1:46:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    rick9109    cactusrome [Link]  Go to top 
MKSparrow

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Re: Pirate deletion grace period



Yup, no alphabetical order, and in Cobalt I had to remake Parka because I forgot the goatee and he moved from the first to the third slot.
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Is it rainning?
[Feb 19, 2005 1:50:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
zoip



Joined: Jan 27, 2005
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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

homullus wrote: 
The mind boggles at this "accident," since as Liz says, it's not like it's one mouse click away.


If she was trying to delete an alt and not her main pirate (as stated in the original post), the mistake was _exactly_ one mouse click away. That's all the difference between deleting alt A and main pirate B.
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drstupid wrote: 
If [your argument] is "good enough" for you, then having the reanimated corpse of Ludwig Wittgenstein throttle you in your sleep is too good for you.

[Feb 19, 2005 1:55:56 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kaet

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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

I've had pirates change to alphabetical order. After creating a new pirate, the next time I signed on, the new pirate had shuffled the old pirates around. I also have pirates that stayed put. I don't know what the trigger was to alphabetize my characters, but it has happened. I think. Because it threw me off the next time I logged in.

Edited to clarify: Once I have 3 pirates and have logged out and in, the three pirates stay in the same order. They don't shuffle anymore.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Kaet at Feb 19, 2005 1:57:57 PM]
[Feb 19, 2005 1:57:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Rubby



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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

zoip wrote: 

If she was trying to delete an alt and not her main pirate (as stated in the original post), the mistake was _exactly_ one mouse click away. That's all the difference between deleting alt A and main pirate B.


Well, it's one click, yes, but then you have to enter in your password to make sure you want to delete the character. So it's not a case of "oopsie, I clicked the wrong button" as it's "oopsie, I clicked the wrong button, entered my password, then clicked the okay button where it clearly shows the character I'm about to delete."
[Feb 19, 2005 1:58:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gotagota

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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

Do we really need to protect inattentive players from themselves?
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Fronsac, human.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
.
-Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

[Feb 19, 2005 2:02:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
CursedBurger

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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

Gotagota wrote: 
Do we really need to protect inattentive players from themselves?


Yohoho! Puzzle Padded Walls?
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Are there any pirates on this ship?
And if they sober up,
they'll have us home by morning.
[Feb 19, 2005 2:16:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
evania



Joined: Feb 4, 2005
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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

CursedBurger wrote: 


Yohoho! Puzzle Padded Walls?


That's the offline part that they're making for UbiSoft, isn't it? ;)
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crazyrandom wrote: 
Who is Evania is the real question, and what has she done to my thread?

[Feb 19, 2005 2:24:29 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
sin1man

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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

That is weird because mine alphabatized itself. My last created pirate is my first alphabetically, it was created from the last slot yet it now is in the first slot. I assumed this went to how everyones works. Hmm I almost feel like playing with this on Viridian or Cobalt.
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Simman

Nemo says, "I typo too."
[Feb 19, 2005 3:53:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Simman3 [Link]  Go to top 
funnybones

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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

Robbinson was first created as an alt, so most of the time when another alt is created it is placed in front of Robbinson, leading to him being in the second spot. Adams, another of my alts, is always behind him. Indeed, it is rather random, and has been annoying to me for a good long time.
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The Dread Pirates Robinson & Barthes, LLC

The poor complain; they always do. But that's just idle chatter.
Our system brings rewards to all. At least, to all who matter.

[Aug 9, 2005 4:00:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
query

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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

I'm glad to see many ppl taking interest in this.

There does, however, seem to be some misunderstanding. As others have said, there is a chance of misclicking. Pirates aren't always in the slot you think they are. Some ppl, like Nylons, constantly created new alts to play around for various reasons. There had been many deletions before. It just takes one mistake. I'm sure that everyone here is not always as attentive as they would like, either in or out of the game. It's more of an idea for a safety net for those reasons.
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If I weren't such a refined lady, I'd beat the crap out of you. ~ Doris Wodsworth/Washington/Waverley/Wilgus

Avatar by Escape
[Aug 9, 2005 4:00:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.riddlersrealm.com [Link]  Go to top 
mootinator



Joined: Feb 26, 2004
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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

Gotagota wrote: 
Do we really need to protect inattentive players from themselves?


An answer to that objection:
http://www.baddesigns.com/faq.html
 
Q. What are you, stupid? These things aren't bad designs! You're just too stupid to figure out how to use them! You have no common sense. You're too lazy to read instructions.

A. Things designed for common use should not require that people have an above average intelligence and should not require them to expend a lot of mental energy or time learning, problem solving or reading instructions. These requirements are obstacles that dramatically decrease the number of potential users. If designers want their products to be widely used, they are well-advised to design them so that they are easy to use.


You can see that this design is fairly good in that it attempts to bring attention to the exact pirate being deleted three times, by repeating the name twice, and displaying the avatar. However, all of those can still be completely ignored by the user (as demonstrated by Nylons) That makes Lallaria's solution of requiring the name typed a very elegant one, because it forces the user to acknowledge the correct information, it doesn't require very much work on the user's part, because deleting a pirate is a low frequency activity, and it doesn't require much work on the developer's part, because the deletion interface is already accessing the pirate name, and verifying that the input matches is trivial.

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- Strickstein -
First Mate of Plank Club
Lord of Avalon
Shore Leave Zombie

starstx33 wrote: 
I Call sigging this!

[Aug 9, 2005 4:00:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gotagota

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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

Don't get me wrong; I like having to type the name, too.

I'd also not include a list of possible pirate names to delete, either, so you have to type it from memory. And that might make it more difficult to delete random-letter-named pirates, so maybe after the first time you might think twice before bashing the keyboard with your fist and calling it a name.
----------------------------------------
Fronsac, human.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
.
-Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

[Feb 19, 2005 6:32:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
zoip



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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

Rubby wrote: 
zoip wrote: 

If she was trying to delete an alt and not her main pirate (as stated in the original post), the mistake was _exactly_ one mouse click away. That's all the difference between deleting alt A and main pirate B.


Well, it's one click, yes, but then you have to enter in your password to make sure you want to delete the character. So it's not a case of "oopsie, I clicked the wrong button" as it's "oopsie, I clicked the wrong button, entered my password, then clicked the okay button where it clearly shows the character I'm about to delete."


There's a joke about using computers:

Q: What's the difference between a computer beginner and a computer expert?

A: The beginner waits five minutes before screwing everything up.

As far as I can tell, the person in question was following a premeditated script that had an expected result--she expected the delete screen to show up and when it did so, she entered, as planned, her password into the expected dialog box. It's likely she didn't look at the pirate name since everything, as long as one didn't look closely, seemed to be according to plan.

People make mistakes like that. They're people. Human beings get distracted or sometimes get ahead of themselves, even during very simple tasks. Heck, sometimes people even get the most basic everyday tasks of life wrong, like getting distracted and then walking straight into solid objects. (There's nothing so simple that you ca'nt scerw it up.)

That's why the "type the name of the pirate" is a very good idea. Typing the name isn't much extra effort and it makes it all but impossible to delete the wrong alt, even if you've set yourself "on autopilot" and ignore most of the screen because it looks mostly like what you're expecting it to look like.

If you tell me you have NEVER, ever, in your life made the mistake of accidentally overlooking a very obvious warning sign, I'll call you a liar.
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drstupid wrote: 
If [your argument] is "good enough" for you, then having the reanimated corpse of Ludwig Wittgenstein throttle you in your sleep is too good for you.

[Feb 19, 2005 10:08:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

"Type the name" is way better than waiting 30 days for "Just kidding!"
[Feb 19, 2005 11:58:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
raabitias



Joined: Aug 12, 2003
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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

It's a user error, Three Rings shouldn't pay the expense for it, even though they get the stuff for free....

Brand-spanking-new pirates are always a blast, anyway.
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Spelling Nazi.

NinjaGuy wrote: 
Well, that's one of the dumbest things I've read in a while. Congrats.


Avatar done by the extremely talented Kanawinkie.
[Feb 20, 2005 12:45:34 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    raabitias    Eight Flame [Link]  Go to top 
DragonRage

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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

I like the "type the pirate name" solution too, and I think it would go a long way to prevent further occurances of this.

However, in this case, I'd really have to say its Nylons own fault for not paying attention. Sorry you lost your poe and clothes (the ships still stay with the crew, right?), but even if you were just flying through the menus and not paying attention, one would think that out of the corner of your eye you'd notice "Hey, that pirate is dressed in black! Maybe I should take a closer look at exactly what I'm deleting before I do it.".
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Like, up in Canada, it's cold as a bastard! Out in Seattle, it rains like bastard! Down in Texas, it's muggy as a bastard!
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skington

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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

A member of my crew did exactly the same thing a few months ago. Just wanted to say that it's not such a weird fluke.
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Leaddolphin, Captain of Serve No Porpoise, Valiant Prince on Cobalt. I want your Plaices!
The Vampire Muroni wrote: 
the hubby teases me when he catches me reading the back of shampoo bottles or the Thesaurus.

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imwamphyr

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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

I love the idea of having to type the pirates name and your password before deletion. It seems to me that would be a very easy way to prevent most mistakes like this.

Nylons was a dear friend of mine, and this is very upsetting to me, however I see both sides of this coin.

It shouldn't be the game creaters responsibility to always swoop down like gods and save us from ourselves. If they did that, imagine how much work would be added to their load as this would become very common.

However, in this case, the loss to YPP will be very great. Nylons will not longer be playing, so they are loosing the cost of her subscription, to start with. So much more than that is being lost, however. I could not even hazard a quess at how many trial users decided to become paying subscribers in part, or completely, because of the way they were helped and treated by the character Nylons. She will be greatly missed.
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Selling my Grunion Collection!
174 ships, 164 sloops, ALL GRUNIONS!
[Feb 20, 2005 2:58:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Pirate Muroni [Link]  Go to top 
mootinator



Joined: Feb 26, 2004
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Re: Pirate deletion grace period

DragonRage wrote: 
I like the "type the pirate name" solution too, and I think it would go a long way to prevent further occurances of this.

However, in this case, I'd really have to say its Nylons own fault for not paying attention. Sorry you lost your poe and clothes (the ships still stay with the crew, right?), but even if you were just flying through the menus and not paying attention, one would think that out of the corner of your eye you'd notice "Hey, that pirate is dressed in black! Maybe I should take a closer look at exactly what I'm deleting before I do it.".


There's no need to be condescending about it, people constantly make mistakes due to inattentiveness. One of the goals of design is to prevent them.

Imagine two highways intersecting, where one of the highways has right of way, and the other has speed bumps leading up to large clear stop signs with flashing red lights on them.

Now, from time to time, a driver still amazingly speeds through the stop sign at full speed (as often happens in real life) and, just for the sake of argument, imagine only the inattentive driver ever gets hurt from doing this. Do you?

a. Say everyone who gets hurt because of this repairable design flaw deserved it because they weren't paying attention.
b. Build an interchange.
----------------------------------------
- Strickstein -
First Mate of Plank Club
Lord of Avalon
Shore Leave Zombie

starstx33 wrote: 
I Call sigging this!

[Feb 20, 2005 3:35:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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