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Monliz

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Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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My flag on Obsidian Ocean currently controls Loggerhead Island. The BK Madam Yu Jian dropped on it yesterday with a strength of 19. Last Fall, the Widow Queen dropped on Melanaster with a strength of 20. Melanaster is still controlled by her. Make note that after an initial attempt at Melanaster, she increased in strength from what the level was after the initial cade. Over the last couple of months, Obsidian has seen a continued decline in population. Realistically, even if everyone on the ocean banded together and jobbed, at these strengths it is impossible to kill them off in one cade. As for Melanaster, the attempts have been going on for weeks. I originally played the Meridian Ocean. It is disheartening to think that this brand new ocean may go the way of Meridian, where we have to wait weeks for a BK to lose strength on it's own before attempting to blockade and take islands from BKs as is done there. Many of us think that that the strength of BK drops needs to be adjusted as to what the population of the ocean is. As the lead developer for Obsidian, Forculus, can you look into this? It would be greatly appreciated by many of us wishing to keep Obsidian alive and active.
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Monlizzy
Captain and Counselor of Midnight Aurora
Queen of Imperial Coalition on the Meridian Ocean
Queen of Lion's Bane on the Obsidian Ocean
Shawe tells ye, "would not be surprised if you were a man the way you act half the time lol"
[Jan 11, 2019 7:16:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Adzanddoris6

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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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Here Here! The strengths are a ridiculous compared to the active people
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Obsidian - Adz

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[Jan 11, 2019 7:22:34 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
mommawolf



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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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I would also add a request that when a BK blockade is active, the BK should NOT field a ship with greater numbers than the average online population of the ocean. Sending a pair of grand frigs into a block when there are generally 30 or less pirates online .. makes defeating the BK nigh unto impossible.
[Jan 11, 2019 9:06:11 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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I generally agree with the OP's main point, but I'll add a few minor comments:

 
Make note that after an initial attempt at Melanaster, she increased in strength from what the level was after the initial cade.

This is normal and should be expected. If you blockade a player's flag, the next weekend. they will likely be just as strong, if not stronger. There isn't any reason why BK islands should be different.

The strength of a BK blockade is related to the strength of the island's economy. So, if you buy all your blockade supplies from the bk island, it's economy will be stronger and thus the bk blockade will be stronger.

You can lower the BK strength by getting people to move their stores to safe islands, like port venture.

 
Over the last couple of months, Obsidian has seen a continued decline in population.

Obsidian's population has been declining since it was opened...
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Jan 11, 2019 9:20:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ryujinpp

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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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I would also add a request that when a BK blockade is active, the BK should NOT field a ship with greater numbers than the average online population of the ocean. Sending a pair of grand frigs into a block when there are generally 30 or less pirates online .. makes defeating the BK nigh unto impossible.

yes, this! apart from BK strength, the number of ships and vessel size fielded at any point in time should scale to the average online ocean population, base on type of BK

eg Barnabas being the toughest 1.8x online population
progressively lesser til 1x for Finius

say a server with 250 online, barnabas would be able to field ships up to 450 (250 x 1.8) stations worth eg 2 GF (152 stations) + 3 WF (162) + some xebecs, warbrigs etc
while finius would only be able to field 250 stations worth eg 1 GF (76) + 2 WF (162) + a junk or warbrig

on a server with 30 online, barnabas would then be fielding 60 stations worth eg 1 WF + 1 sloop, or 1 xebec + 1 warbrig, or 3 warbrigs etc
and finius would spawn nothing bigger than a xebec

considering that not 100% of players would job for blockades as there are still those who would rather kraken, or CI, or plainly just watch the cade from safezone... this makes BK cade doable without being overwhelming
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[Jan 11, 2019 1:07:28 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    https://www.facebook.com/PuzzlePirates [Link]  Go to top 
joshuawhelan

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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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You can lower the BK strength by getting people to move their stores to safe islands, like port venture.


It's unreasonable to expect everybody on the ocean to move their stalls around dependent on whichever BK happens to be blockading that month.

 
 
Over the last couple of months, Obsidian has seen a continued decline in population.

Obsidian's population has been declining since it was opened...


Continued being the operative word.
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[Jan 11, 2019 3:27:38 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Greeniguanaa

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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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I enjoy how blockades are currently going.

Keep them at 15+ strength.

Its fun and enjoyable to watch the incompetent flags continue to fail month after month.
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Beijing of Obsidian
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Greeniguanaa at Jan 11, 2019 3:30:41 PM]
[Jan 11, 2019 3:29:27 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
joshuawhelan

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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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I enjoy how blockades are currently going.

Keep them at 15+ strength.

Its fun and enjoyable to watch the incompetent flags continue to fail month after month.


If you want the game to die so badly, why do you spend so much money on poe?
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[Jan 11, 2019 5:13:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Greeniguanaa

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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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I enjoy how blockades are currently going.

Keep them at 15+ strength.

Its fun and enjoyable to watch the incompetent flags continue to fail month after month.


If you want the game to die so badly, why do you spend so much money on poe?


As always, your input not only takes things out of context but adds no value and nothing relevant to the topic of blockades.

I'm sorry I have money to piss away on doubloons and you don't. Perhaps you should get a better job.

The issue is clear incompetence. Please review when GW decided to put ships into magpie during Mel cade. Had they not of done that. They would have won. Issue isn't the strength its the competence of the flag and or decision makers :)
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Beijing of Obsidian
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Greeniguanaa at Jan 11, 2019 6:35:51 PM]
[Jan 11, 2019 6:29:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Warhoar

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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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A 19 strength Madam Yu Juan is most certainly killable in 3 rounds, and I don’t think changing the BK mechanics are an appropriate way to fix this issue.

I do have a few other suggestions however:

Flotillas
Flotillas need to sporadically drop these 15+ BK blockades to hold island owning flags accountable in killing flotillas. Part of the problem is the 5 week internal cooldown applying for flotilla drops. Everyone on the ocean knows which island is getting dropped on next, so it only concerns that 1 flag who is in the firing line to bring it down.

That being said there is a good chance that Lion’s Bane wanted this flotilla to drop because I recall someone threatening 9999 drops in global chat ( it was whoever dropped on Lion’s Bane last weekend ).

Flags should not be rewarded for failing to clear flotillas. They should be just as painful as these tough kades would be to create a tension between defending a pvp blockade and scuttle shielding.

Proposed Changes:
- remove 5 week cooldown for flotilla drops - apply it only for scuttles. Maybe some sort of probability system to add randomness to where is dropped with an advantage to the closest island.
- retain power as is for BKs

Jobbing Support

Part of the reason flags have been unable to kill 20 strength BKs quickly is because 50% of the ocean hate the other 50% of the ocean so much that they will actively manipulate BK blockades with sloops.

All flags have taken part in this, including Lion’s Bane.

This makes a 20 strength difficult but not impossible to kill.

This public relations issue is hardy a game mechanics issue requiring changes.

Bad Decisions made by senior leaders

The issue with Melanaster is that Guerrilla Warfare pulled out in under 2 rounds for the first three weeks. When the island was focussed by the flag, we saw 10 strength wiped off the BK. BK fluctuations continued (the adding and reducing of strength each week) and then the holiday break left us with still a six strength.

This is hardly the fault of a 20 strength BK (which would have been downed in 2 weeks of focussed). Widow Queen is meant to be difficult.


Save for the above, it it ridiculous to want easier blockades - Madam Yu Jian can easily be killed off in under 3 rounds.
[Jan 11, 2019 10:06:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Greeniguanaa

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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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A 19 strength Madam Yu Juan is most certainly killable in 3 rounds, and I don?t think changing the BK mechanics are an appropriate way to fix this issue.

I do have a few other suggestions however:

Flotillas
Flotillas need to sporadically drop these 15+ BK blockades to hold island owning flags accountable in killing flotillas. Part of the problem is the 5 week internal cooldown applying for flotilla drops. Everyone on the ocean knows which island is getting dropped on next, so it only concerns that 1 flag who is in the firing line to bring it down.

That being said there is a good chance that Lion?s Bane wanted this flotilla to drop because I recall someone threatening 9999 drops in global chat ( it was whoever dropped on Lion?s Bane last weekend ).

Flags should not be rewarded for failing to clear flotillas. They should be just as painful as these tough kades would be to create a tension between defending a pvp blockade and scuttle shielding.

Proposed Changes:
- remove 5 week cooldown for flotilla drops - apply it only for scuttles. Maybe some sort of probability system to add randomness to where is dropped with an advantage to the closest island.
- retain power as is for BKs

Jobbing Support

Part of the reason flags have been unable to kill 20 strength BKs quickly is because 50% of the ocean hate the other 50% of the ocean so much that they will actively manipulate BK blockades with sloops.

All flags have taken part in this, including Lion?s Bane.

This makes a 20 strength difficult but not impossible to kill.

This public relations issue is hardy a game mechanics issue requiring changes.

Bad Decisions made by senior leaders

The issue with Melanaster is that Guerrilla Warfare pulled out in under 2 rounds for the first three weeks. When the island was focussed by the flag, we saw 10 strength wiped off the BK. BK fluctuations continued (the adding and reducing of strength each week) and then the holiday break left us with still a six strength.

This is hardly the fault of a 20 strength BK (which would have been downed in 2 weeks of focussed). Widow Queen is meant to be difficult.


Save for the above, it it ridiculous to want easier blockades - Madam Yu Jian can easily be killed off in under 3 rounds.


Spot on

Cheers,
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Beijing of Obsidian
[Jan 12, 2019 7:45:00 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
joshuawhelan

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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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The issue is clear incompetence.


I recall that your own flag, who haven't won a contested blockade in months, entered the majority of the BK blockades too. A combined effort of both sides proved unable to defeat the brigand king in well over two months. It isn't a matter of ability or competence, just simple logic. Fighting over a dozen WBs, Xebecs, WFs & GFs at once with an ocean population of 300 at peak time (many of that number being alts) is an impossible undertaking due to the points coverage a BK can attain. This issue is compounded on Cerulean and Meridian where population levels are even weaker. If a brigand king can last over 2 rounds fielding 100% points coverage with ships to spare, it makes no sense to assume humans of any "competence" level can win. The days of flags being able to field several WFs at once ended long ago.

 
I'm sorry I have money to piss away on doubloons and you don't. Perhaps you should get a better job.


I do apologise - I guess I've been too busy in the world we actually live in to have heard the news that Grey Havens are now paying big salaries to play YPP all day.
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[Jan 12, 2019 2:32:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Greeniguanaa

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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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The issue is clear incompetence.


I recall that your own flag, who haven't won a contested blockade in months, entered the majority of the BK blockades too. A combined effort of both sides proved unable to defeat the brigand king in well over two months. It isn't a matter of ability or competence, just simple logic. Fighting over a dozen WBs, Xebecs, WFs & GFs at once with an ocean population of 300 at peak time (many of that number being alts) is an impossible undertaking due to the points coverage a BK can attain. This issue is compounded on Cerulean and Meridian where population levels are even weaker. If a brigand king can last over 2 rounds fielding 100% points coverage with ships to spare, it makes no sense to assume humans of any "competence" level can win. The days of flags being able to field several WFs at once ended long ago.

 
I'm sorry I have money to piss away on doubloons and you don't. Perhaps you should get a better job.


I do apologise - I guess I've been too busy in the world we actually live in to have heard the news that Grey Havens are now paying big salaries to play YPP all day.


Sure, Our flag went in to hinder GW. But competence STILL plays a roll in it. They could have won several times but poor decision making caused them to lose time and time again.

But lets disregard the blockade portion of it. If you had just one competent Flot naver you wouldn't even need to worry about a BK! Wow imagine that right?

Perhaps these flags should hire Emerlaus instead of crying for a nerf.

And lastly, why don't you contribute a bit more to the game it self instead of posting on the forms.

Kkktnxbai
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Beijing of Obsidian
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Greeniguanaa at Jan 12, 2019 3:17:44 PM]
[Jan 12, 2019 3:16:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lazygina



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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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To bring this topic back on track, I'm just going to give my 2 cents on the current situation of BKs with the population existing on the Obsidian ocean.

Right now, Obsidian has 6 colonizable islands, none of which are owned by a BK. After an extended spell of BK-ownership on Melanaster, players are in control of all islands, again. For the remainder of my post I am going to assume every flag is aware of recent blockades, and knows when their island is able to be attacked by a BK again by scuttling, as well as which order of islands the flotillas are likely to drop on the specific islands, as these are long-discovered and unchanged mechanics.

In my opinion, the biggest reason for BK blockades to even exist, is to force flags to actually defend their island, rather than sit on it for forever. This way, every now and again every flag will risk losing their island, even if they might not be in any conflict with another player-owned flag. To give those flags the responsibility to clear those flotillas, or deal with the consequences. This, in my eyes, is good: flags should not endlessly sit on islands without having to worry about losing it. Flags know when flotillas can drop on them, flags know they should clear them, or deal with the consequences. If they don't, I see that as their fault. The issue, of course, is when BKs become undefeatable, causing ridiculous challenges that can't be overcome with the resources at hand these days.

I don't think we have reached that point yet, but we should accept change before then. We shouldn't wait until all islands are under BK control before we accept that the current mechanics aren't ideal.

Personally, I divide the BKs in 3 groups. There's the upper category of Barney, WQ and Vargy who tend to spawn the strong ships, with which players can't simply trade with. They can be defeated quickly, due to the amount of strength on the board at once, but they're also very deadly in numbers, potentially causing player-flags trouble. On the other end, we have Finius, Brynhild & Yu Jian. They tend to spawn a ton of small ships, which any player flag can deal with, but with current BK mechanics (running away from bigger ships) they take a damn long time. A high strength BK of this category will not always be very difficult, but time-consuming and annoying. The remaining BKs strike a nice balance, in my book.

Monlizzy rightfully points out that strengths for Loggerhead and Melanaster have been ridiculous - 19 and 20 respectively. An annoying, time-consuming 19 strength on Loggerhead and a heavy-shipped 20 strength on Melanaster. Both are tough. Lowering the BK strength isn't the full solution because, in my mind, BKs should be a challenge, but not trivial nor impossible. I believe BKs like Gretchen or Azarbad are fine as they are, but some small tweaks might be needed to the lower and upper end of BKs.

In my ideal world, we would indeed lower the strength of these BKs to accomodate for the lower playerbase, but at the same time improve the current BK mechanics. I'm sure most people have witnessed BKs just refusing to shoot at players for turns on end, or just sitting there like a dummy. While in big numbers, that might not be an issue, but 1 GF refusing to shoot at a player is nearly 1 full strength of a BK being wasted entirely. The same goes for Yu Jian, at no point will any flag worry against a 10 strength Yu Jian, because she just isn't capable of sinking you. But 20 strength? Can a flag even realistically chase that many small ships in 3 rounds?

I realize that this is a big ask, and likely would take significant development time. But just flat-lowering BK strength, without any other compensation, just seems like something only flags who don't want to be challenged want. A balance needs to be found, requiring lesser numbers but higher skill seems like a good one, to me. Make the big BKs actually shoot intelligently. Make the small BKs actually contain a risk for any player-flag taking it on. Add a mechanical challenge, rather than a numerical one, and we get a system that's sustainable, and probably more fun, over time.
[Jan 12, 2019 6:16:44 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Warhoar

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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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I just wanted to note that with 100 jobbers today, Amateur Hour brought down a 6 strength Widow Queen in 4 segments with ease.

Given Madam spawns small ships, and lots of them making the first 10 strength wiped off ridiculously easily (probably 3x easier than WQ 6 strength) - i see all of Monlizzy’s points as a non-issue.
[Jan 12, 2019 10:47:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
thenatedogg

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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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Hi Monlizzy and those who may be interested! As discussed many times before in this thread BK drops can’t happen if you kill the flotilla. I have been spending the past week killing flotillas seeing as sometime this week/next week the following islands are likely to be dropped- Melanaster, Tripplets and Whisper. All others have been dropped too recently or scuttled in the case of Magpie, and if game mechanics are understood correctly are thereby not in trouble. I killed off Gretchen on Friday all that’s left are the three of the hardest sinking ones Barnabas, Widow Queen and Vargas (Widow being an only week old spawn.) I have gotten 20 sinks in Barney as of last night when I got 16 more greens. So if you don’t want big massive drops by the toughest BKs I’m here to help just need jobbers! I will be jobbing again as I have all week nearly at 4:30 GT, I know that might be tricky due to time zone difference but letting those concerned (if any) know. Thanks and hope to see people there!
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Mattatron on Obsidian
[Feb 5, 2019 9:48:57 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Warhoar

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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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Hi Monlizzy and those who may be interested! As discussed many times before in this thread BK drops can?t happen if you kill the flotilla. I have been spending the past week killing flotillas seeing as sometime this week/next week the following islands are likely to be dropped- Melanaster, Tripplets and Whisper. All others have been dropped too recently or scuttled in the case of Magpie, and if game mechanics are understood correctly are thereby not in trouble. I killed off Gretchen on Friday all that?s left are the three of the hardest sinking ones Barnabas, Widow Queen and Vargas (Widow being an only week old spawn.) I have gotten 20 sinks in Barney as of last night when I got 16 more greens. So if you don?t want big massive drops by the toughest BKs I?m here to help just need jobbers! I will be jobbing again as I have all week nearly at 4:30 GT, I know that might be tricky due to time zone difference but letting those concerned (if any) know. Thanks and hope to see people there!


No silly, Monlizzy wants BK blockades to drop to prevent real blockades. But she wants easy ones so she can spend under 3 mill and not having any risk of losing the island.
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hidemyhoney

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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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There are way more issues than this. Why not stop people that use big amounts of alts that take way more advantage than any other hard working player in the game? Brigand King drops, just don't scuttle simple.
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Support Sov! and I miss Jake :(

Bring the positives from obsidian ocean to main oceans!

Idk why people use alts to be relevant bashing everything.......
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Jcmorgan6

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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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There are way more issues than this. Why not stop people that use big amounts of alts that take way more advantage than any other hard working player in the game? Brigand King drops, just don't scuttle simple.
Because you seem to derail almost every forum thread you post in?
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Jjc on Emerald
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[Feb 16, 2019 4:46:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
hidemyhoney

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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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There are way more issues than this. Why not stop people that use big amounts of alts that take way more advantage than any other hard working player in the game? Brigand King drops, just don't scuttle simple.
Because you seem to derail almost every forum thread you post in?


Incorrect, Alt abuse also adds to average population, for example if you have 200 online, and people using alts mostly on blockade days 50+ which makes a Brigand King significantly stronger. So its not really derailing if it has a discussion relating to overstrengthened BKs.
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Support Sov! and I miss Jake :(

Bring the positives from obsidian ocean to main oceans!

Idk why people use alts to be relevant bashing everything.......
[Feb 16, 2019 7:23:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jcmorgan6

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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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Except the vast majority of alts partaking in "alt abuse" do not contribute much to the economy of an island since most will not be moved from PV, thus not strengthening a BK, and given they are often used to help take BKs down, if anything "alt abuse" weakens the strength of a BK. But you clearly didn't really care and just want to spew whatever flavour of the month nonsense you have going on everywhere again.

The only group of alts really making a difference to BK strength are labour alts, something which hasn't been widely considered "alt abuse" for many years now.
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[Feb 17, 2019 4:40:41 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: Scale of Brigand Drops Compared to Low Population Reply to this Post
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The only group of alts really making a difference to BK strength are labour alts,

I doubt that labor alts make any difference to BK strength. If stores didn't use labor alts to make their products, they would have to use regular players to make the them, and the quantity of labor produced would be almost exactly the same.

Labor alts might not be good for the game, but they are irrelevant to BKs.

I completely agree with all your other points in your recent posts though.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Feb 17, 2019 6:58:37 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Warhoar

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Thanks Lizzy, great suggestion!
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