• Play
  • About
  • News
  • Forums
  • Yppedia
  • Help
Welcome Guest   | Login
  Index  | Recent Threads  | Register  | Search  | Help  | RSS feeds  | View Unanswered Threads  
  Search  


Quick Go »
Thread Status: Normal
Total posts in this thread: 72
Posts: 72   Pages: 3   [ First Page | 1 2 3 | Next Page | Last Page]
[Add To My Favorites] [Watch this Thread] [Post new Thread]
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 7853 times and has 71 replies Next Thread
Havana_Black

Member's Avatar


Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Posts: 33
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Well as long as you're being EXTREMELY pedantic about your terms sure.


I'll take this as a compliment, I guess; thank you I already know I'm arrogant.

 
No islands owned, no shops owned, no ships owned, no poe stockpiled. On day 1 of Obsidian everybody washed ashore with their starter shirt and pants and a foil. That's what they meant by fresh start.

They meant "The trillions if not actually quadrillions of PoE and Dubs worth of fleets, items, shops, islands etc that everybody else has been stockpiling for over a decade isn't already here"


Look, I understand the appeal in a complete restart on; islands, shops, ships, and begrudgingly I'll add PoE to the list because you need it to blockade islands.
What's going to stop 1 or 2 islands on this ocean from becoming hubs for trade?
There will always be islands, like Admiral, where wealth and trade are centralized to a large degree, and as a result other islands don't benefit as much.
When that happens...groups of people will get together and buy large sums of Doubloons legitimately with real world money to blockade with.
No F2P flag will be able to compete with that, ESPECIALLY without high stakes gambling which is how a majority of blockades get bank rolled by the way.
Trust me, it won't matter how intrenched you are, you can't compete with people willing to spend thousands a month to blockade.


 
Not "It is literally and exactly like every player has never played before and has complete ignorance about every mechanic of the game."

The day 1 launch of Azure wasn't a "fresh start" under your logic because some people had played Bejeweled and Super Puzzle Fighter and Chu Chu Rocket before.


Look my logic is this; nothing about this economy has changed...they sucked trillions of PoE out, okay.
Anyone can still buy Doubloons virtually unrestricted with a waiver form.
The largest method of PoE exchange is still completely un-regulated (to my knowledge at least not 100% sure of this please correct me if I'm wrong), sword fighting.
----------------------------------------
-Thespen-
~Rhadamanthus~
Havana
[Nov 8, 2017 3:37:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 18, 2007
Posts: 5701
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
I'd be happy with replacing Meridian and Emerald with a 'new' ocean in a year or so. You could give players the chance to move up a certian number of items, then just close the two, replacing them with a new ocean that is on a smaller map. This would remove the dead zone of Meridian, and possibly increase the number of players on the new non-PvP focused ocean.

However, I get the feeling it would annoy all the old players who refuse to see their old stuff go. Perhaps the numbers of players wouldn't go up, but right now stuff is stagnating, and starting to go down even on Emerald.

If we get a replacement ocean, I want my idea of allowing players to cash out their assets on the old ocean, and get non-tradable stuff on the new ocean.
----------------------------------------
Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
[Nov 8, 2017 3:47:34 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Havana_Black

Member's Avatar


Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Posts: 33
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
I'd be happy with replacing Meridian and Emerald with a 'new' ocean in a year or so. You could give players the chance to move up a certian number of items, then just close the two, replacing them with a new ocean that is on a smaller map. This would remove the dead zone of Meridian, and possibly increase the number of players on the new non-PvP focused ocean.

However, I get the feeling it would annoy all the old players who refuse to see their old stuff go. Perhaps the numbers of players wouldn't go up, but right now stuff is stagnating, and starting to go down even on Emerald.


I can get behind something like this. I like my familiars it took years to hunt them down and asset accumulation to buy them. There are memories associated with them too, they're not just assets to me, but when faced with losing them sometimes it's easier to look at them that way.
----------------------------------------
-Thespen-
~Rhadamanthus~
Havana
[Nov 8, 2017 3:49:26 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 3576
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Probably dramatically easier, and dramatically better for the health of the destination server to say more like

"One outfit, one sword/bludgeon/mug, one ship, one familiar"

Than to try and actually codify creating new pirates with a ton of items that all have to be rendered untradable but new items being tradable and sorting out how untradable things interact with wardrobes and sword racks and all that jazz.
[Nov 8, 2017 4:01:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Crazymg

Member's Avatar


Joined: Nov 25, 2008
Posts: 553
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Probably dramatically easier, and dramatically better for the health of the destination server to say more like

"One outfit, one sword/bludgeon/mug, one ship, one familiar"

Than to try and actually codify creating new pirates with a ton of items that all have to be rendered untradable but new items being tradable and sorting out how untradable things interact with wardrobes and sword racks and all that jazz.


But that just goes in the face of what we actually want, we want our stuff we've worked hard for over the years, not a cleaner slate, that for me removes my reason to play.
----------------------------------------
~Princessmg~
[Nov 8, 2017 4:31:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Havana_Black

Member's Avatar


Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Posts: 33
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
 
Probably dramatically easier, and dramatically better for the health of the destination server to say more like

"One outfit, one sword/bludgeon/mug, one ship, one familiar"

Than to try and actually codify creating new pirates with a ton of items that all have to be rendered untradable but new items being tradable and sorting out how untradable things interact with wardrobes and sword racks and all that jazz.


But that just goes in the face of what we actually want, we want our stuff we've worked hard for over the years, not a cleaner slate, that for me removes my reason to play.


It does go in the face of what a lot of players want but it's a decent middle ground that both sides can somewhat agree on.

It still doesn't change the fact that starting a new ocean, Obsidian included, still doesn't really solve any of the underlying problems that will eventually plague it.
They really need to hire an economist.
It pains me very much to say this, as a bare bones capitalist, but what a new ocean probably needs the most is regulation, especially if you have large amounts of assets already or coming into the game.

Doubloon trade needs to be limited, and capped

SF needs to be limited and or raked

No item wagers

Limits on all trade commodities price and volume to avoid heavy manipulation

Blockade wages need to be significantly reduced to move focus towards bnav skill and flag size not money

Strict limits on Doubloons allowed into the game, make it limited time offering when the economy needs it and not during blockades, probably requires reconstructing doubloons top to bottom

The game needs more controlled commodity and currency sinks

I'm sure there's more

This is starting to sound like more work than it'll be to just let players have there items on Obsidian, and implement some of the things I mentioned above on the Obsidian ocean which will eventually have the same problems as the old oceans do.
----------------------------------------
-Thespen-
~Rhadamanthus~
Havana
[Nov 8, 2017 4:39:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 3576
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Yes, you WANT to keep everything. Of course you do, everybody would. You might not be able to keep everything.

If you had to choose between "Keep everything" and "Be able to play" which would you choose? A dead game that ceases to exist but it ceased to exist with all your stuff intact, or a game you can still play where you only get your most favourite piece of your past stuff?


At this moment, Obsidian has 402 pirates online.

Compare to Cerulean's 33
Compare to Jade's 1
Compare to Meridian's 3
Compare to Opal's 0

How long do you think those servers will be worth paying for the hosting of? Do you think any of those people are pumping new money into the game for dubloons? Do you think any of those people are going to be running enough kinds of content at enough hours of the day to bring in new players who'll stick around?

Meridian Dubs are like 600% as expensive as Obsidian's in PoE, while payouts for content remain the same, except content runs basically not at all on Meridian. People need to spend real money or they can do pretty close to NOTHING on that server.

They've got what, bandanas, stripey shirts, stripey knickers and barefeet they can actually get without dubs, need 6 times the PoE income to get enough poe to get a dub, and with dramatically less available chances to take part in gameplay.

If you're a Meridian player, how much longer will you ride that server into death throes before you decide whether your stuff is worth not actually being able to play?
[Nov 8, 2017 4:43:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Havana_Black

Member's Avatar


Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Posts: 33
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Devonin what ocean do you primarily play on and what's your pirate's name?
----------------------------------------
-Thespen-
~Rhadamanthus~
Havana
[Nov 8, 2017 4:59:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 3576
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Not sure how it's relevent, though there's probably a Devonin on every server because I would flip around between them to Greet on the docks.

By hours I played most
Midnight -> Azure -> Obsidian

I deleted my original Azure/Midnight Devonin after a couple years, and by the time I made the current (Now on Cerulean as Devonin-East) Devonin, the subscription servers had already basically died and almost no activity happened on it anymore.

Why, want to go see whether I have enough "assets" for you to care about my opinions?
[Nov 8, 2017 5:20:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 18, 2007
Posts: 5701
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Probably dramatically easier, and dramatically better for the health of the destination server to say more like

"One outfit, one sword/bludgeon/mug, one ship, one familiar"

Than to try and actually codify creating new pirates with a ton of items that all have to be rendered untradable but new items being tradable and sorting out how untradable things interact with wardrobes and sword racks and all that jazz.

I wasn't suggesting just converting everything over to the new ocean, and then just making it untradable. In fact, I wasn't expecting players to bring anything from their old ocean directly, but to essentially allow players to purchase starting items for the new ocean from a list of options.

The list did include familiars, including the option to get, for an appropriately high price, familiars in colors not normally available, and/or possibly a type of familiar that wouldn't ever be released on the new ocean. Pets would get a similar treatment, including ones not to be released in other ways.

It included artifact furniture. For higher prices, you could get new artifact-type stuff that wouldn't be released on the new ocean ever. For less money, you could pick up game tables, wardrobes, and other furniture with in-game functions, so you don't have to worry about trying to get those in the crush of a new ocean startup. And you could acquire a house on one of the starter islands, so you have a place to put all this stuff.

For a reasonably high price, you could get never-dusting items, such as the labor or officer badges that Obsidian has. Or things like a whisking amulet, a hair-changing potion that's not easily available on the new ocean, backswords, savvy hats, a non-dusting bludgeon, something that lets you do hair color changes on a frequent basis, and other permanent effects like that.

Owners of inns could claim rights to a statue of their pirate on a ringer island on the new ocean. Additional statue rights on ringer islands could be auctioned off. Current shoppe owners could bid for rights to put new shoppes on the starter (ringer-owned) islands.

For a lower price, yes, one sword, one bludgeon, one outfit, some minor furniture.
----------
Now, I'm not going to pretend that this doesn't come without complications, or that players won't complain that they didn't get a fair carryover to the new ocean. I'm hoping that the prospect of getting unique items that are either non-dustable or hard to acquire on the new ocean (in some cases, not possible to get on the new ocean) would blunt the worst of that criticism.
----------------------------------------
Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
[Nov 8, 2017 5:20:38 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Havana_Black

Member's Avatar


Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Posts: 33
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Not sure how it's relevent, though there's probably a Devonin on every server because I would flip around between them to Greet on the docks.

By hours I played most
Midnight -> Azure -> Obsidian

I deleted my original Azure/Midnight Devonin after a couple years, and by the time I made the current (Now on Cerulean as Devonin-East) Devonin, the subscription servers had already basically died and almost no activity happened on it anymore.

Why, want to go see whether I have enough "assets" for you to care about my opinions?


Yah actually and oh wait what a shocker... It must be real easy to sit back and bad mouth everyone who wants to be a realist... oh wait sorry, a materialist while you don't have a thing to lose.
Look why don't you sit this argument out, and go trade sticks and rocks with Bernie Sanders, since you clearly have no stake in asset retention at all.
People value what they've worked for and it'll likely be the driving force behind any sort of decision a majority makes on what happens to the old oceans.
----------------------------------------
-Thespen-
~Rhadamanthus~
Havana
[Nov 8, 2017 5:31:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 3576
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

You're the one treating your playmobil pirate's ships like a financial investment that you need to make good on or you've been stolen from, and you're telling me to be realistic?

It is to laugh.

Some of us are concerned with the survival of the GAME and not our precious little bytes of data. All your shit doesn't do you any good at all when GH can't afford to keep the servers running and the game shuts down.

But i'm sure you'd be much happier to die rich than live. Spend all that poe on a suitable violin to play while your server sinks into the depths.
[Nov 8, 2017 5:35:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 3576
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

In 10 years, 13 of your 27 posts have been in this thread.

I know on the subject of "Actually cares about the survival of the game, and not my own pathetic little hill of beans" where we each fall.
[Nov 8, 2017 5:37:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Crazymg

Member's Avatar


Joined: Nov 25, 2008
Posts: 553
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Yes, you WANT to keep everything. Of course you do, everybody would. You might not be able to keep everything.
Of course not everything can be kept, but it doesn't have to be so severely limited to one of each item either.

 
If you had to choose between "Keep everything" and "Be able to play" which would you choose? A dead game that ceases to exist but it ceased to exist with all your stuff intact, or a game you can still play where you only get your most favourite piece of your past stuff?


"Do you want to stay in your current house with all your children or would you like to move to a brand new house where you can only take your favourite child?"

My familiars and pets are my furbabies, choosing one is impossible. My goals in the games I play is to collect things, fill my Pokedex on all my Pokemon games, collect all the armors and weapons on Spiral Knights, for Puzzle Pirates it's mainly to collect certain familiars and LE ships with a touch of pets, trinkets and furniture. Reducing my collection down to one means I will stop playing, there are other games I can play and I already talk to most of my in game friends outside of the game anyway.
----------------------------------------
~Princessmg~
[Nov 8, 2017 5:44:41 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Havana_Black

Member's Avatar


Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Posts: 33
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
You're the one treating your playmobil pirate's ships like a financial investment that you need to make good on or you've been stolen from, and you're telling me to be realistic?

It is to laugh.

Some of us are concerned with the survival of the GAME and not our precious little bytes of data. All your shit doesn't do you any good at all when GH can't afford to keep the servers running and the game shuts down.

But i'm sure you'd be much happier to die rich than live. Spend all that poe on a suitable violin to play while your server sinks into the depths.


Like it or not pal the survival of the new ocean hangs on whether or not current players will be able to trade over, last I checked your precious little ideals don't make the cut when you need a majority.
So you'll have to come down off your self-righteous white horse and grovel down here with the rest of us and talk brass tax, because it doesn't matter how much you actually care about the game, or how many posts you made on your own threads regurgitating the same garbage over and over, because at the end of the day if we did what you thought was right we'd all end up like you, with nothing but your self-righteous ideals.
----------------------------------------
-Thespen-
~Rhadamanthus~
Havana
[Nov 8, 2017 5:53:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 3576
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

And an active game to play with all my friends.
[Nov 8, 2017 6:20:02 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 3576
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I would bet that every server saw a spike of activity when Obsidian came out on Steam and people remembered they had pirates on old servers. A -spike- to the numbers currently sitting at

Emerald 165
Cerulean 34
Meridian 13
Jade 0
Opal 0

And the numbers are ALREADY starting to drop again over time.

You are quite literally stating your intention to hold the survival of YoHoHo Puzzle Pirates! as a game hostage over your crap from your old dying basically empty servers. I mean, you do you man, but looking at things from the -outside- the idea of this company with a userbase this size maintaining multiple empty servers is just throwing money in a hole for no reason.

The people who will clutch to their old ocean possessions with their dying breath are already NOT playing on Obsidian in an active way that contributes to the survival of the company. The ones who ARE can understand how there's actually only one game server right now. There's Obsidian and there's some dying little vestiges that are costing money, soaking up staff time, and just bleeding out.

GH should be trying as hard as they can to find a way to make the game canonically and practically one single server and stop supporting the others at all. And if the choice is between dumping trillions of PoE into the Obsidian economy at this point, or making 100 people angry that they lost their stuff, I know what I'd pick.

But what do I know, I'm not rich enough to have an opinion.
[Nov 8, 2017 6:35:10 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Crazymg

Member's Avatar


Joined: Nov 25, 2008
Posts: 553
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
You are quite literally stating your intention to hold the survival of YoHoHo Puzzle Pirates! as a game hostage over your crap from your old dying basically empty servers.
Nope, I'm stating my intention to value my time more and not reachieve everything I've done in the past 9ish years if it gets taken away from me.

 
I mean, you do you man, but looking at things from the -outside- the idea of this company with a userbase this size maintaining multiple empty servers is just throwing money in a hole for no reason.

The people who will clutch to their old ocean possessions with their dying breath are already NOT playing on Obsidian in an active way that contributes to the survival of the company. The ones who ARE can understand how there's actually only one game server right now. There's Obsidian and there's some dying little vestiges that are costing money, soaking up staff time, and just bleeding out.
Yes, having multiple servers is a waste and it would be great if they could combine them (the older oceans) in a way that keeps everyone moderately satisfied, but making everyone play Obsidian is not going to work.

 
GH should be trying as hard as they can to find a way to make the game canonically and practically one single server and stop supporting the others at all. And if the choice is between dumping trillions of PoE into the Obsidian economy at this point, or making 100 people angry that they lost their stuff, I know what I'd pick.
So you make 100 people angry they lose their stuff and the other 70~ angry they have to use steam and Obsidian gains 0 players, great plan.
----------------------------------------
~Princessmg~
[Nov 8, 2017 7:26:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Havana_Black

Member's Avatar


Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Posts: 33
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
I would bet that every server saw a spike of activity when Obsidian came out on Steam and people remembered they had pirates on old servers. A -spike- to the numbers currently sitting at

Emerald 165
Cerulean 34
Meridian 13
Jade 0
Opal 0

And the numbers are ALREADY starting to drop again over time.

You are quite literally stating your intention to hold the survival of YoHoHo Puzzle Pirates! as a game hostage over your crap from your old dying basically empty servers. I mean, you do you man, but looking at things from the -outside- the idea of this company with a userbase this size maintaining multiple empty servers is just throwing money in a hole for no reason.

The people who will clutch to their old ocean possessions with their dying breath are already NOT playing on Obsidian in an active way that contributes to the survival of the company. The ones who ARE can understand how there's actually only one game server right now. There's Obsidian and there's some dying little vestiges that are costing money, soaking up staff time, and just bleeding out.

GH should be trying as hard as they can to find a way to make the game canonically and practically one single server and stop supporting the others at all. And if the choice is between dumping trillions of PoE into the Obsidian economy at this point, or making 100 people angry that they lost their stuff, I know what I'd pick.

But what do I know, I'm not rich enough to have an opinion.


To start Emerald was consistently at 275-300 people before Obsidian was launched. I haven't kept count on the other oceans after people moved from Meri to Emerald. So I'm not sure what you're talking about when you say "spike" but sure whatever you need to say to justify your feelings because you obviously haven't made a valid or logical point that's contributed anything meaningful to this thread.

You talk about doing what's best for GH and the survival of the game and contributing to the Obsidian economy, but it doesn't look like you've ever played the game for more than a day or two at most in the last 13 years on any of the old oceans. Hell i bet you've barely spent a dime on this game beyond a month or two of subscription. You wanna talk about doing what's best for GH? Customers who spend money on their game. Believe me those "few angry people" have spent A LOT of money funding this game through the last 13 years of its existence. They'll probably keep funding it too, unless of course they don't play anymore, and they only have customers like you who clog up the forums with dribble for 13 years and contribute nothing monetarily to their cause.

Some people might even say it would be unethical to not let us transfer over our items to an ocean that would knowingly cannibalize users from Emerald ocean and leave it crippled. People could even argue that GH did something like this purposely so people would start over and spend thousands of dollar all over again making a new pirate.
GH is a company, and a company isn't a company if it doesn't make money.
People like me make GH money but only if I play the game, people like you lose GH money because you scare off justified players from actually speaking out and expressing their own concerns in an outlet like this.

You don't know much beyond the ability to justify yourself at any cost.
You continue to ignore established facts and points and filibuster any other opinion expressed in this thread friend or foe.
I think you've expressed your opinion and now you should be quiet and let others express there own concerns, since you have nothing to and haven't contributed anything to this discussion besides your opinion.
----------------------------------------
-Thespen-
~Rhadamanthus~
Havana
[Nov 8, 2017 7:30:58 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 3576
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

You definitely speak and act like a person who takes pedantry as a compliment.

You remind me of me 10 years ago. You have my sympathies.

You also have literally no idea what you're talking about when it comes to criticizing my contributions or lack thereof to this game and community. But it's okay. Much as I hate to Alpha Nerd in public, your unwavering commitment to logic, reason, and demanding all evidence has inspired me.

 
You talk about doing what's best for GH and the survival of the game and contributing to the Obsidian economy, but it doesn't look like you've ever played the game for more than a day or two at most in the last 13 years on any of the old oceans.


Throughout Azure and Midnight, you know, before you knew this game existed, I spent probably an average of 6-8 hours a day logged in. Mostly spent helping new players learn the game. I managed to rack up over 3000 forum posts, mostly in Tips and Tricks helping people learn to play, and Game Design helping discuss and think about many of the game elements that you think of as how the game has always been.

When Dubloon oceans first opened and the servers flooded with brand new players, I moved most of that 6 hours a day over to those brand new oceans, where the "ask a greeter" button fired off an average of once a minute or faster, continuing to help new players learn about the game. Heck, I might have answered one of your greenie questions. I've had one person so far /tell me to say hello because they remembered me from a decade ago when I helped them out as a greenie, why not you too?

I get probably an average of one person a day recognizing my name and look from all my years of "not playing for more than a day or two" so yeah. Definitely I didn't contribute anything to this game

 
Hell i bet you've barely spent a dime on this game beyond a month or two of subscription.


In the last 35 days since joining Obsidian, I've logged 218 hours and given Grey Haven 80 dollars. Though, come to think of it, I never gave ThreeRings any months of subscription because, for services rendered, I got the Alpha Tester lifetime subscription, despite not joining the game until early Beta. But there's no way that was because I contributed anything. Must have just been because I know nothing about anything.

 
Some people might even say it would be unethical to not let us transfer over our items to an ocean that would knowingly cannibalize users from Emerald ocean and leave it crippled. People could even argue that GH did something like this purposely so people would start over and spend thousands of dollar all over again making a new pirate.


Those people are people who haven't read the terms of service, or have any kind of understanding about what they own or don't own in this game in any meaningful let alone legal sense. In fact, everything we've said here is their property to do anything they want with forever without our compensation. They could take our discussion, package it into a cute animation over crossed swords and sell it as DLC if they felt like it. You don't actually own your pirate's bytes of data.

Do you not actually understand the state of this company? Sega closed down Three Rings and killed the team. Cleaver is working for Facebook now. Do you even know who Cleaver is? You're "new" enough that you might not. There was every justifiable reason for this game to just shut down forever, and we wouldn't even have this forum on which to argue about this, let alone talk about our pirate's ships and familiars like they are our actual physical property.

Instead, since the rights to Y!PP reverted to Mr James, he kept the game running and the lights on under what is essentially a museum holding company for his IP. The staff is tiny, the prospects for any significant future development are tiny, and the re-issue of the game on Steam is basically a last-ditch attempt to pump enough new blood into the game that the slow rate of attrition that has been the last 8 years can keep those people employed for a few more.

There are 7 servers that have 488 combined people online right now, in prime gameplay time for north america. There used to be that many people online standing on Alpha Island, to say nothing for the rest of the server, or the other servers.

You're acting like the game is not raggedly clinging to life here. The Obsidian Ocean Dread Ringers crew has 7 members. Assuming that is literally the whole of the current OM and Dev team, to even pay them $25,000 dollars a year each (Which is GARBAGE for a developer and pretty much garbage for in-game community managers) is $175,000 dollars a year.

Obsidian currently has 9600 total pirates. For everybody with one, there are people with 3, 6, 9, 12, and more so lets even be outrageously optimistic and say 9600 pirates represents 8000 players. That's a little over $20 bucks a person just to pay a horribly pay to the staff.

Let's assume those 7 people are 2 devs making 50k and 5 OMs making 30, now we're up to $250,000 and 31.25/year per player.

Except it's a free to play game, and a large number of players are free only. Lets say they're in the tiny minority, and the 8000 players are split 2000 free only and 6000 who give money. Now we're up to 42 bucks a year per person.

A more realistic number is probably 5000 paying people, so now we're at 50 bucks a year per person to pay the staff.

And then there's server hosting fees, Steam getting a cut of sales of the DLC items, advertising costs, paying an accountant to handle the finances, paying a lawyer to handle the legal.

Just how much money do you think Grey Haven is actually making here? Just how survivable do you think your server is if the population drops another 10%? 20%? 50%?

 
People like me make GH money but only if I play the game, people like you lose GH money because you scare off justified players from actually speaking out and expressing their own concerns in an outlet like this


I lose them money by a) Giving them money and b) Trying to advocate for things I genuinely and legitimately believe will be better for the long-term survival and profitability of the game. Yes, definitely I lose them money under those circumstances.

 
You don't know much beyond the ability to justify yourself at any cost.
And all the things I know about business management (Managing and then owning profitable businesses for the last 7 years) and community management (moderating and administrating communities larger than this one for over a decade) but other than those you're right.

 
I think you've expressed your opinion and now you should be quiet and let others express there own concerns, since you have nothing to and haven't contributed anything to this discussion besides your opinion.


Well I'll be sure to treat your opinion on this subject with exactly as much respect as you're treating mine.
[Nov 8, 2017 9:14:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jdl1963



Joined: Feb 6, 2005
Posts: 91
Status: Offline

Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Like it or not pal the survival of the new ocean hangs on whether or not current players will be able to trade over


The daily numbers say different - Obsidian, on average, has between two to four times the number of people playing on the other oceans. The numbers say that the old oceans and are by and large irrelevant wastelands. The numbers say the current players are abandoning the old oceans in droves.

Look what's happened to Emerald (the one ocean with any significant number of players) since Obsidian opened:



Heck, let's look at what happened on Emerald today :



At it's peak during prime playing hours - the largest 'old' ocean barely had as many players as Obsidian has in the middle of the night!

The numbers don't lie - and they tell a story very different from your ungrounded assumptions.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by jdl1963 at Nov 9, 2017 12:59:12 AM]
[Nov 9, 2017 12:55:22 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jun 14, 2012
Posts: 1115
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

What makes this game fun is other players otherwise Cerulean would be the most hopping ocean as it is the cheapest to play by far. It is not be cause the game needs the freeloaders that subscription oceans are not good for. This leads to the dub oceans success.

Obsidian is the do over where they fixed some issues that hurt the economy of the older dub oceans.

DRASTICALLY Reduced the number of shops allowed on an island to spread the economy around. This is the best improvement imho.

Got rid of the SMH badge requirement now to shift the parlor badge to a wager badge or just get rid of it all together.

Nerfed poker, I don't agree with it but seems that some think its an issue and there are plenty of threads to debate it in. But the added poe sink in the forum of a rake is a huge bonus and should be spread to all wagers imho.

All blockades will be sinking this will keep huge fleets from being created and held by one person created more of a team needed to be a super power. Granted some will dump large amounts of money to have the fleet which is good they pay for the free loaders the game needs to survive.

Duel Clients have been greatly reduced as its difficult to do on steam. I hated the idea, now I see the wisdom in it. It seems as if the pillages are better because people are not duel client or spamming the inn while playing 2-3 pirates. The number are more real when on Emerald you can divided the numbers by 2 as most people have multiple accounts logged in.

The simplest answer for what to do with the existing oceans is seemingly already happening, the focus has shifted like it or not to Obsidian's Development and the older oceans are not seeing new LE's or any development. This will lead people to leave on their own time shifting with out being shoved or just moving on.

If their is any actual cost to keeping the dead oceans up it won't take long for the new success of Obsidian to show Grayhavens the answers if they can or can't afford to keep them going. Clearly if they can get more volume on a profitable ocean by closing the dead they would do so as its how they pay the bills. Not being able to log in to a profitable ocean due to server load is an issue.

The best way to encourage the move as players is to not play the other oceans as the game isn't a solo game. When kades can't happen or SMH can not happen because the ships don't fill people will shift over to play or move on.

To those who need to see if I am wealthy enough to vote my wealth is held primary in LE ships and kade fleet few unnamed fams. Once I see this ocean go through full release I will be shunting down my stalls and shops right now I am just burning through back stock of commodes encase the new ocean fails but its looking good and is great fun to start over. At that point I will be buying dubs and selling my ships so when the dubs climb as they did on meridian I will be even wealthier.

If the game were mine I would hold an End of the Worldevent announce the closing of the ocean and watch the kadding free for-all go nuts for the last hurrah for a few months. Maybe give every one a trinket/trophies/flag for those who move on to playing on Obsidian.
----------------------------------------
Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)
?Retired? On a Break? I found a new love...
Casual player or yet another who moved on.
[Nov 9, 2017 5:19:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Havana_Black

Member's Avatar


Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Posts: 33
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
 
Like it or not pal the survival of the new ocean hangs on whether or not current players will be able to trade over


The daily numbers say different - Obsidian, on average, has between two to four times the number of people playing on the other oceans. The numbers say that the old oceans and are by and large irrelevant wastelands. The numbers say the current players are abandoning the old oceans in droves.

Look what's happened to Emerald (the one ocean with any significant number of players) since Obsidian opened:



Heck, let's look at what happened on Emerald today :



At it's peak during prime playing hours - the largest 'old' ocean barely had as many players as Obsidian has in the middle of the night!

The numbers don't lie - and they tell a story very different from your ungrounded assumptions.


No I agree with the data. Since the open of Obsidian all the activity on the old oceans has declined. There has been no spike in activity on old oceans. Whether or not people are moving over purely because they like the new ocean or they want to get a easy foothold while they wait for GH to come back with a verdict on item transfer is up for debate.
----------------------------------------
-Thespen-
~Rhadamanthus~
Havana
[Nov 9, 2017 7:43:41 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Havana_Black

Member's Avatar


Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Posts: 33
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
What makes this game fun is other players otherwise Cerulean would be the most hopping ocean as it is the cheapest to play by far. It is not be cause the game needs the freeloaders that subscription oceans are not good for. This leads to the dub oceans success.

Obsidian is the do over where they fixed some issues that hurt the economy of the older dub oceans.

DRASTICALLY Reduced the number of shops allowed on an island to spread the economy around. This is the best improvement imho.

Got rid of the SMH badge requirement now to shift the parlor badge to a wager badge or just get rid of it all together.

Nerfed poker, I don't agree with it but seems that some think its an issue and there are plenty of threads to debate it in. But the added poe sink in the forum of a rake is a huge bonus and should be spread to all wagers imho.

All blockades will be sinking this will keep huge fleets from being created and held by one person created more of a team needed to be a super power. Granted some will dump large amounts of money to have the fleet which is good they pay for the free loaders the game needs to survive.

Duel Clients have been greatly reduced as its difficult to do on steam. I hated the idea, now I see the wisdom in it. It seems as if the pillages are better because people are not duel client or spamming the inn while playing 2-3 pirates. The number are more real when on Emerald you can divided the numbers by 2 as most people have multiple accounts logged in.

The simplest answer for what to do with the existing oceans is seemingly already happening, the focus has shifted like it or not to Obsidian's Development and the older oceans are not seeing new LE's or any development. This will lead people to leave on their own time shifting with out being shoved or just moving on.

If their is any actual cost to keeping the dead oceans up it won't take long for the new success of Obsidian to show Grayhavens the answers if they can or can't afford to keep them going. Clearly if they can get more volume on a profitable ocean by closing the dead they would do so as its how they pay the bills. Not being able to log in to a profitable ocean due to server load is an issue.

The best way to encourage the move as players is to not play the other oceans as the game isn't a solo game. When kades can't happen or SMH can not happen because the ships don't fill people will shift over to play or move on.

To those who need to see if I am wealthy enough to vote my wealth is held primary in LE ships and kade fleet few unnamed fams. Once I see this ocean go through full release I will be shunting down my stalls and shops right now I am just burning through back stock of commodes encase the new ocean fails but its looking good and is great fun to start over. At that point I will be buying dubs and selling my ships so when the dubs climb as they did on meridian I will be even wealthier.

If the game were mine I would hold an End of the Worldevent announce the closing of the ocean and watch the kadding free for-all go nuts for the last hurrah for a few months. Maybe give every one a trinket/trophies/flag for those who move on to playing on Obsidian.


You bring up a lot of good points I hadn’t heard yet about the new oceans economy.
I think nerfing poker and raking it while leaving SF untouched is a mistake but it can be fixed.
The longer GH waits to make a decision the more players they’ll lose from old oceans, people want incentive to move over to Obsidian and I think the easiest way to incentivize is by letting people transfer items.
----------------------------------------
-Thespen-
~Rhadamanthus~
Havana
[Nov 9, 2017 7:52:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Scarpath

Member's Avatar


Joined: Sep 7, 2014
Posts: 243
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Okaay, now that everyone has made their opinions about each other known, can we get back to the subject at hand? If you don't like someone's ideas, write your contrasting ideas. That's much more likely to get what you want done than starting a salt war.

I'm going to focus on Jade and Opal for a second. They are both much worse off than any other server, and that just kind of kills the entire point of them existing. I feel that getting better language support on the other oceans would be more effective than continuing to run empty servers. Yes, some people have items there, but they never use said items. Like, ever. are there even enough players on at one time to run a full sloop pillage? I doubt it.

Perhaps a better use of the budget would be to put all the server fees for those two servers into making a better experience for Spanish and German speaking players on the other servers. And even for more languages than that!
----------------------------------------
Scarpath on Emerald, Cerulean, and Meridian!

Also Scarpath on Obsidian, Defiant to the core.

Your grammar should at least be as good as mine, take the time to make it decent!
[Nov 9, 2017 9:36:36 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SeaGi

Member's Avatar


Joined: Aug 10, 2005
Posts: 79
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Too little... too late...all oceans.


----------------------------------------
"pride goeth before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall" -Prov 16:18

Jimmyjimjim,
Ex-downpressor of Babylon
Thankfully Retired
[Nov 9, 2017 9:59:57 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Havana_Black

Member's Avatar


Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Posts: 33
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Okaay, now that everyone has made their opinions about each other known, can we get back to the subject at hand? If you don't like someone's ideas, write your contrasting ideas. That's much more likely to get what you want done than starting a salt war.

I'm going to focus on Jade and Opal for a second. They are both much worse off than any other server, and that just kind of kills the entire point of them existing. I feel that getting better language support on the other oceans would be more effective than continuing to run empty servers. Yes, some people have items there, but they never use said items. Like, ever. are there even enough players on at one time to run a full sloop pillage? I doubt it.

Perhaps a better use of the budget would be to put all the server fees for those two servers into making a better experience for Spanish and German speaking players on the other servers. And even for more languages than that!


Yah it's kinda tough at this point.

I'm always in favor of consolidating the remaining Dub oceans into one or transferring players over to one, but it sounds like there's technical barriers and outspoken core groups which have prevented this from being done already.

I never really understood how individual servers were dedicated just for language preference instead of implementing a "Select Language" button, and a forum thread for international players to find people who speak the same language.

A new ocean for all the old oceans with complete transfer doesn't seem all that bad though. Obviously shoppe, stall, and house loss would be a bone of contention with many and rightfully so to a degree but that can be fixed with Dub reimbursement with a redeemable voucher for what wasn't transferable.

The only catch to a new ocean for the old ones would be, the potential cannibalization of Obsidian which isn't ideal; and that it should probably be put on Steam like Obsidian so it also has a chance to grow and or self-sustain.
----------------------------------------
-Thespen-
~Rhadamanthus~
Havana
[Nov 9, 2017 10:28:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 3576
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Havana, let me ask you, lets set aside for a moment all of the issues surrounding attachment to all your possessions on your old server, and the feeling that anybody forced to give up their previous items would just quit.

Without accounting for any individual player's feelings or opinions about the status of their items obtained on other servers, do you think it makes the most sense for Grey Haven to have 1 ocean, 2 oceans or 3 oceans?

I sort of get the impression that deep down inside everybody still claiming to be active on Cerulean, Emerald, Meridian, Opal and Jade understands that the playerbase is so small now, that even if just from a hosting costs perspective there is no reason whatsoever for GH to maintain more than one ocean.

Do you at least grant that much?
[Nov 9, 2017 11:28:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 28, 2003
Posts: 3576
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

To me the real problem isn't that the longer they wait to decide about closing old servers, the more odl players they'll lose. To me it's the longer they wait TO close the old servers, the more they risk the whole enterprise failing.

Activity begets activity and inactivity begets inactivity.

I own a game shop, and this is literally how it works. A Magic the Gathering player comes in and says "Oh, nobody's here, I was hoping to play a couple games" and then they leave. An hour later another player shows up and says "Oh, nobody's here, I was hoping to play a couple games" and then they leave. If they both come back the next day at different times, and nobody is here, they may well never come back looking to play.

So instead, I scheduled a specific named and advertised single date and time for Casual, free, non-tournament magic, and it is my single busiest and most active time. Can people come play whenever they want? Sure. Do they? Almost never. They all come to the one time they knnow for sure everybody else will come to, and so they all come, and everybody is here.

Even -having- other servers hurts every server. Their active population dropping is itself a cause of the active population dropping. You log in, nobody is on, and nothing is happening, so you stop logging in. That makes it more likely for the next person who logs in to see nothing happening, making them more likely to stop logging in.

There are 552 players online right now. 63% are on Obsidian. That means there's 348 players online. Some are pillaging, some are foraging, some are playing parlor games, some are doing CIs or KHs or whatever, some are just standing around making the dock look populous.

Over on Emerald, there's 165 online. About half. So there's half as many people pillaging, half as many people foraging etc etc. You are around half as likely, logging onto Emerald to find a thing you want to do, that will have you along, at any given moment because there are just half the opportunities for it to happen.

If all 552 players were on Obsidian, there would be MORE people pillaging, MORE people foraging, MORE people playing parlor games etc etc. Which means if you show up for the first time you are more likely to see something going on that looks interesting, more likely to end up in a situation to interact with other players, and make some connections, and thus a lot more likely to come back. So the game becomes more likely to grow.

A server with 400 active and a server with 200 active are not only worse than a single server with 600 active, they're worse than a single server with 500 active. I'd argue they're probably worse than a single server with 401 active. The -GAME- is better served losing a full 50% of people on the smaller server by only having one server.

The more people around, the more people will stick around.
[Nov 9, 2017 11:44:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Scarpath

Member's Avatar


Joined: Sep 7, 2014
Posts: 243
Status: Offline
Re: Future of Oceans? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I really do agree that all the extra servers are hurting the game. I would like if we went down to ONE ocean of every type that we have right now; One PvP, one Doubloon, and one Subscription.

Now, as to the fact that very few seem to like the idea of a reset: Honestly, I'm kind of surprised that more people don't WANT a server reset. It's a common model used in games, tbh. Players in an open world game unlock everything. You accumulate so much wealth. And after you have everything, what more is there to achieve? You're just stuck in the end game, with end game people. The game isn't very enjoyable when you have no goals to strive for.

Now, you could always start a fresh pirate. Just leave all your wealth to the side and start as a new player. However, when you look around and see all of these other players with the nice gear, you start to feel bad not having your own. And typically, you just end up back at your old pirate, simply because it's an old server, with so much stuff, and you feel that it's impossible to catch up with your new pirate.

Don't agree with my logic? Take a look around. I've actually just repeated what was said by a you-tuber that I've been watching, replacing Minecraft with YPP terms. There are HUNDREDS of Minecraft servers, tons of which have way more players on at a time then YPP. One that I play on a lot, Minecraft Central, just reset it's skyblock servers a couple weeks ago, and it's just as busy as ever!

Yes, it can sting to lose all that time and effort. However, you get the chance to start new, alongside everyone else who is starting anew.
----------------------------------------
Scarpath on Emerald, Cerulean, and Meridian!

Also Scarpath on Obsidian, Defiant to the core.

Your grammar should at least be as good as mine, take the time to make it decent!
[Nov 9, 2017 1:15:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Posts: 72   Pages: 3   [ First Page | 1 2 3 | Next Page | Last Page]
[Show Printable Version of Thread] [Post new Thread]

Puzzle Pirates™ © 2001-2016 Grey Havens, LLC All Rights Reserved.   Terms · Privacy · Affiliates