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Lylesnipah



Joined: Oct 6, 2008
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Gunning experience problem. Reply to this Post
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So I was talking to a friend of mine who is Legendary (was Ultimate) at gunning and it seems like there is a problem with gunners gaining experience in gunning. Obsidian doesn't seem to have all that many gunners and almost all the highest ranked ones seem to have low experience rank regardless of how long they gun for. This low experience rank would also mean that every time they gun they risk losing their performance rank. Gunning is a unique puzzle because the pirate has to constantly leave and re-enter the puzzle and as such doesn't leave much time for experience gain. I think the experience ranking for gunning should be based on something other than in-puzzle time.

Maybe the amount of guns filled?
I don't know if that would be the best criteria but I think it has to be changed regardless.
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Obsidian - Snipah, Senior Officer of the crew Arctic Pirate Penguins.
[Oct 25, 2017 2:17:25 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: Gunning experience problem. Reply to this Post
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I had no problem gaining experience in gunning on Obsidian: Algol on Obsidian

Experience is an interesting stat, but it has no real impact on the game. I don't see a problem.
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Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Oct 25, 2017 4:49:43 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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I see lots of experience I think the bigger issue with rank is many build it in the navy yet on a ship the puzzle is much different.
I could see the lack of gunner issue perhaps being fixed if the navy/viking puzzle was the one on the ship. Its such a pain to hire a good gunner and yes many don't want to drop rank on a pillage.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)
?Retired? On a Break? I found a new love...
Casual player or yet another who moved on.
[Oct 25, 2017 5:29:22 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Scarpath

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Re: Gunning experience problem. Reply to this Post
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I see lots of experience I think the bigger issue with rank is many build it in the navy yet on a ship the puzzle is much different.
I could see the lack of gunner issue perhaps being fixed if the navy/viking puzzle was the one on the ship. Its such a pain to hire a good gunner and yes many don't want to drop rank on a pillage.


Yeesh, the difference between gunning experence and just about any other puzzle is huge. One sublime and illustrious? Even a couple crafting puzzles beat it.

However, I don't think it's that big of a deal. The problem gunners are having is session length, not experience. With the short sessions of a normal voyage, you see change every 4 cannons filled, instead of at the much longer session breaks that normal puzzles see.
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Scarpath on Emerald, Cerulean, and Meridian!

Also Scarpath on Obsidian, Defiant to the core.

Your grammar should at least be as good as mine, take the time to make it decent!
[Oct 25, 2017 9:48:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lylesnipah



Joined: Oct 6, 2008
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Re: Gunning experience problem. Reply to this Post
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I see lots of experience I think the bigger issue with rank is many build it in the navy yet on a ship the puzzle is much different.
I could see the lack of gunner issue perhaps being fixed if the navy/viking puzzle was the one on the ship. Its such a pain to hire a good gunner and yes many don't want to drop rank on a pillage.


Yes, I am aware of the list. Expert isn't that high though, Grumbles and Ush have my full admiration. I've got to Expert in Carp probably couple of days ago, Paragon now. You can check and see that most of the other duty puzzles will either not have Expert on them at all or have very few of them (For some reason an exception is Patching).

They don't want to drop in rank but if you think about it, the higher the experience the less affect messing up has, meaning they have less chance to drop in rank. My friend dropped from Leg to GM because he preferred to play to fill the WB alone rather than play to raise in rank.
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Obsidian - Snipah, Senior Officer of the crew Arctic Pirate Penguins.
[Oct 25, 2017 10:14:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
polaris395

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I see no issues with this. Gunning is a rapid puzzle. If your gunner has a rank and they are afraid to lose it, they’re probably not that good. While it is easy to drop your rank, gaining it is also easy. I might go Leg to REN/GM on a sloop pillage (I believe the man should have 4 guns a turn, even if they only shot 1 the previous) but literally 3 LPs onboard the navy will fix it. I’m not a great gunner so maybe I repair more than I should but it’s really not that bad.
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-Polariss

Apollo wrote: 
 
I saw Apollo do it...maybe a week ago? He was by the SF table.
You mean "I saw Apollo in the Lima inn - perhaps he did it", and the answer is "No, I didn't".

[Oct 25, 2017 11:21:43 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Eaglesfanbk



Joined: Jun 2, 2005
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It's definitely slower, but that's just the way it is. It's not so awful that it's worth a change IMO -- the only puzzles in that regard are Drinking, Rumble, and TD. Not all puzzles need to get experience at the same rank.

Agree that the navy ranks are more of an issue -- I routinely go from Leg/Ult on the navy to GM on pillages, and then go back to the navy immediately to get my rank back. It's easy to get your rank back if you deserve it on the navy, but I imagine that almost everyone on the ultimate list gets it from navy gunning -- maybe one or two can get it from pillages, but it's really tough to do ultimate speed while having to clear the cannons. Honestly, not sure how much of an issue this REALLY is, but it's a bigger one than experience.

EDIT:
I'd hate if the gunning puzzle became like the navy or viking raids, where you're loading guns non-stop. Gunning is a high intensity puzzle, and it's exhausting to do it without a break. Pillaging and Sea Monster Hunts usually have some breaks built in for gunners. If the puzzle required people to gun non-stop for 10+ minutes at a time, it would get tiring really really quickly. I already have to make sure I do it in shorter bursts or else my wrist hurts, and I know that personally I'd never want to play the puzzle if I had to have 100% uptime anytime I did it.
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Twisted - Obsidian, Emerald
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Eaglesfanbk at Oct 25, 2017 6:39:23 PM]
[Oct 25, 2017 6:36:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
mitchie101

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Re: Gunning experience problem. Reply to this Post
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Gunning experience has not changed a bit. The reason why it is not going as fast as other puzzles is quite simple. You do not gun outside of battle whereas you do play other puzzles outside of it.

Navy ranks is a problem indeed. It is much easier to get Ultimate with the Navy than it is doing regularly battle gunning on let's say a pillage. SMH's have less of a problem here because of the consistency in amount of guns to be filled. A possible solution would be to increase the score multiplier you get from cleaning a dirty cannon. Truly dirty cannon this is, not a booched one. This would negate the benefits of navy gunning slightly where the cannons are clean. Navy gunning would most likely still be superior but people will be more motivated to actually gun on pillages.

While battle gunning I am still a solid top 5 contender, but it is technically impossible nowadays to get #1 without navy gunning due to a lot of people being aware of the benefits of navy gunning.
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Mitch on Obsidian.
Mitchiie on Meridian and Emerald.
[Oct 26, 2017 2:10:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

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I'm not sure what the problem actually is. If your goal is to fill cannons on a ship in battle so the bnav has access to cannons, your standing doesn't matter. If your goal is to get to the top of the standing highscore list, everybody on it already knows what to do and how to do it, and they do it. I think if you could only gun on a pillaging ship, the ranking of standing would probably stay exactly where it is. Superior gunners are superior gunners, I don't know I believe there'd be more than one or two weird outliers that are somehow even better when they have to wash out cannons than when they don't.
[Oct 26, 2017 9:38:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Eaglesfanbk



Joined: Jun 2, 2005
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Re: Gunning experience problem. Reply to this Post
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I'm not sure what the problem actually is. If your goal is to fill cannons on a ship in battle so the bnav has access to cannons, your standing doesn't matter. If your goal is to get to the top of the standing highscore list, everybody on it already knows what to do and how to do it, and they do it. I think if you could only gun on a pillaging ship, the ranking of standing would probably stay exactly where it is. Superior gunners are superior gunners, I don't know I believe there'd be more than one or two weird outliers that are somehow even better when they have to wash out cannons than when they don't.


Well, the problem is that actually doing the puzzle on a pillage hurts your rating. Any system that disincentivizes actually playing the puzzle isn't ideal.

It's not a huge issue, and it only affects people who care about their rating more than doing the puzzle, but there definitely is a negative effect of doing the puzzle on a pillage, even if it's relatively small.
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Twisted - Obsidian, Emerald
[Oct 26, 2017 12:21:12 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lylesnipah



Joined: Oct 6, 2008
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Re: Gunning experience problem. Reply to this Post
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I'm not sure what the problem actually is. If your goal is to fill cannons on a ship in battle so the bnav has access to cannons, your standing doesn't matter. If your goal is to get to the top of the standing highscore list, everybody on it already knows what to do and how to do it, and they do it. I think if you could only gun on a pillaging ship, the ranking of standing would probably stay exactly where it is. Superior gunners are superior gunners, I don't know I believe there'd be more than one or two weird outliers that are somehow even better when they have to wash out cannons than when they don't.


Well, the problem is that actually doing the puzzle on a pillage hurts your rating. Any system that disincentivizes actually playing the puzzle isn't ideal.

It's not a huge issue, and it only affects people who care about their rating more than doing the puzzle, but there definitely is a negative effect of doing the puzzle on a pillage, even if it's relatively small.


Multiple things can hurt your rating as well in other puzzles (CI thralling for example) but it matters less because people often have high experience rank. The higher the experience the less it hurts your rating though.
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Obsidian - Snipah, Senior Officer of the crew Arctic Pirate Penguins.
[Oct 27, 2017 3:23:23 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Layered

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If you want gunning experience so bad, just laze till sublime.
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[Oct 28, 2017 12:21:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lylesnipah



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Didn't I say I was talking to a friend and this came up? The guy is jumping up and down to Ultimate, somehow I doubt he will laze in the navy.
Personally I don't care about the experience, I lazed it all the way to Broad to get the navigation mission.
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Obsidian - Snipah, Senior Officer of the crew Arctic Pirate Penguins.
[Oct 30, 2017 3:01:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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