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katiemac

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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People are playing on this ocean in spite of PvP, not because of it. It is something that they are enduring - for now - in order to be able to play the game (with a reasonable number of active fellow players) at all.


THIS THIS THIS!

Those of us who just want to putter around put up with the sinking PVP because we have no choice. Realistically, it's Obsidian or nothing. But at some point, those of us who don't like the PVP aspect (or rather, the cost of losing a ship to it) are going to tire of paying to play a game where we are limited to one "safe" area.

What I don't understand is why Obsidian can't cater to both groups. Designate half the archs as non-sinking, and the other half as sinking. Yeah, there is the issue of resources on sinking vs. non-sinking archs, but that can be balanced.

It doesn't have to be either/or.
[Oct 18, 2017 2:25:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
katiemac

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews Reply to this Post
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If you provide a choice, people will migrate. It doesn't mean that it was needed to have the choice, it just means people will happily pay anything for an easier life in games. It infringes on the 400 when any other players within or outside the 400 are able to effectively skirt around the rules everyone else has to play by as per the core ocean rules and ways.


Your assertion in an earlier post was that the majority of people who play Obsidian are there because they love PVP. But now you admit that if those same people were given the choice to NOT PVP, they wouldn't. So...what happened to all those people who so love PVP that having an alternative option would turn them from the thing you say they love so much?
[Oct 18, 2017 2:33:51 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nek0jin

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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People are playing on this ocean in spite of PvP, not because of it. It is something that they are enduring - for now - in order to be able to play the game (with a reasonable number of active fellow players) at all.


THIS THIS THIS!

Those of us who just want to putter around put up with the sinking PVP because we have no choice. Realistically, it's Obsidian or nothing. But at some point, those of us who don't like the PVP aspect (or rather, the cost of losing a ship to it) are going to tire of paying to play a game where we are limited to one "safe" area.

What I don't understand is why Obsidian can't cater to both groups. Designate half the archs as non-sinking, and the other half as sinking. Yeah, there is the issue of resources on sinking vs. non-sinking archs, but that can be balanced.

It doesn't have to be either/or.

I'd say that it would make sense to make the four islands around the two faction-home islands "safe." That would mean all of the Darkling Seas and Straits o' Defiance Nav routes would be PvP-capable, but not sink-able. The inter-arch connecting routes (Whisper - Triplets, Devil's - Magpie, Loggerhead - Cavum, and Triplets - Anole) would be the first step of sinking oceans. Or cut it back even further, and make only the back four routes of the two faction archipelagos (Night Harbor, Point Petrify, Nevermore, and Flatback on the West, and Lionhaven, Kingfisher, Triumph, and Ridley's on the East) "safe."

That would still make going from Greywaters to either of the faction archipelagos dangerous, and also let people "raid" the opposing oceans to a degree.
[Oct 18, 2017 2:38:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bahaakbu

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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Here, the google forms, a bit modified to get more quantifiable data.

It has 3 branches, new player, returning player, not playing on obsidian.

https://goo.gl/forms/k1lEbCVNn1vlCle63

and here's the data sheet, view only:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14A9BhUMEP-8kaoaid46Ea2F3PZbaqeYV2IQPNqqijEM/edit?usp=sharing

Please give me feedback before I start spamming the game again, getting all the flak :P
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Cheesemighty on Obsidian.
I'm trying to compare the opinions of people on obsidian ocean, and see if the difference is statistically significant. It's anonymous and takes less than 5 minutes: https://goo.gl/forms/6icpkudNjlb1PmcF3
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by bahaakbu at Oct 18, 2017 2:44:23 PM]
[Oct 18, 2017 2:43:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nek0jin

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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I'm not sure if it's broken or not. Completing the Obsidian Ocean questionnaire put me back at a blank (unanswered) Obsidian Ocean questionnaire.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Nek0jin at Oct 18, 2017 2:52:54 PM]
[Oct 18, 2017 2:52:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bahaakbu

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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I'm not sure if it's broken or not. Completing the Obsidian Ocean questionnaire put me back at a blank (unanswered) Obsidian Ocean questionnaire.

Should be fixed now, I shouldn't be creating things at 1 am, probably. Sorry about that. Forgot to set the appropriate sections to "submit form".
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Cheesemighty on Obsidian.
I'm trying to compare the opinions of people on obsidian ocean, and see if the difference is statistically significant. It's anonymous and takes less than 5 minutes: https://goo.gl/forms/6icpkudNjlb1PmcF3
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by bahaakbu at Oct 18, 2017 3:08:48 PM]
[Oct 18, 2017 3:06:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jcmorgan6

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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I'm not sure if it's broken or not. Completing the Obsidian Ocean questionnaire put me back at a blank (unanswered) Obsidian Ocean questionnaire.

Yep, same, and the google sheets remains empty. It is indeed fixed

I also think it's worthwhile adding an option along the lines of, "yes but I prefer to play the other oceans" to the question "Are you playing Obsidian".

Another question I'd potentially have is, "I find myself playing more Puzzle Pirates since the release of Obsidian", in the how much you agree section.

I say this since I personally only log Obsidian during Cursed Isles rotation (And occasionally log Emerald outside of that period, but mostly consider the game not worth playing during that time frame) As a result my hours per week has gone down from around 50-60 to 2-3 (Averaged over a full month of rotation).
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Jjc on Emerald
CI booty division stats
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Jcmorgan6 at Oct 18, 2017 3:10:13 PM]
[Oct 18, 2017 3:06:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nek0jin

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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I backed up until I found my actual entry page (several pages back!) and submitted that. It seems to have gone in... but it then asked me if I wanted to give "another response" (answer the questions again, I'm assuming). If people can multi-vote, that's definitely abusable.

Edit: Is there a Google page that shows the results? I find that the Responses spreadsheet is impossible to read for the relevant answers (in Column K).
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Nek0jin at Oct 18, 2017 3:16:07 PM]
[Oct 18, 2017 3:11:58 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bahaakbu

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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I backed up until I found my actual entry page (several pages back!) and submitted that. It seems to have gone in... but it then asked me if I wanted to give "another response" (answer the questions again, I'm assuming). If people can multi-vote, that's definitely abusable.

The problem is that would require them to login to their google account, which is not exactly ideal. I don't think people would just sit there filling up forms all evening? I think. I hope? Sigh. Dammit.


Edit:
Does this work on your end? Because I have a beautiful view of the thing. You might have to be set as a collaborator to see it... https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1sT3WKg52p9r6w5gkHo2wEkxwYnxFHdBNHSu2wgU8Egc/edit#responses

Edit 2: I'd still have to run the statistics to see if those answers are significantly different, but it's fun to see the numbers go up. But we obviously need a bigger sample size here.

Edit 3: I removed the submit another form button, at least. Should be less of an option now. Also, I believe most of the traffic to the previous poll came from my in game postings. I'll do it tomorrow, I guess after revising this form.
----------------------------------------
Cheesemighty on Obsidian.
I'm trying to compare the opinions of people on obsidian ocean, and see if the difference is statistically significant. It's anonymous and takes less than 5 minutes: https://goo.gl/forms/6icpkudNjlb1PmcF3
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by bahaakbu at Oct 18, 2017 3:28:00 PM]
[Oct 18, 2017 3:18:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nek0jin

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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Edit:
Does this work on your end? Because I have a beautiful view of the thing. You might have to be set as a collaborator to see it... https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1sT3WKg52p9r6w5gkHo2wEkxwYnxFHdBNHSu2wgU8Egc/edit#responses

Nope. Takes me to the Obsidian Ocean questionnaire.

No worries. I think we have reasonable data from the first vote, even if someone was trying to manipulate it. Current totals are 44 (+6)/19/17. 19/50 = 38%. Even at that number, it's clear that the PvP-focused contingent is not a majority, and certainly not the supermajority-plus they seem to think and claim.

The classic PP system works well. You want to PvP with a chance of sinking? Declare war. When people take you up on the war, you get to do sinking PvP to your hearts' content with the people you're at war with... and can still PvP nearly everyone else, just with minimal consequences. Opt-in PvP is the only way that will never cost you players, because you never deal with people being unwilling victims suffering significant losses.
[Oct 18, 2017 3:30:29 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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The classic PP system works well. You want to PvP with a chance of sinking? Declare war. When people take you up on the war, you get to do sinking PvP to your hearts' content with the people you're at war with... and can still PvP nearly everyone else, just with minimal consequences. Opt-in PvP is the only way that will never cost you players, because you never deal with people being unwilling victims suffering significant losses.

This thread is not about sinking vs not sinking PvP. It's about PvP period, even non-sinking PvP.

Though, admittedly, I've only skimmed the last however many posts have gone up since my last post in here, so maybe it reverted to just sinking vs not sinking PvP.

As someone who prefers fighting NPPs (but is not averse to PvP), I liked the way CoH/CoV handled PvP. Someone gets challenged, they have 30 seconds (might've been a minute) to accept the challenge. That exact solution wouldn't do well here, but maybe something similar?

With that being said, I still believe that dnav to avoid PvP is sufficient (though could be improved upon by requiring the attacker to not have more pirates, including NPPs, than the defender).
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[Oct 18, 2017 3:47:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
Nek0jin

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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The classic PP system works well. You want to PvP with a chance of sinking? Declare war. When people take you up on the war, you get to do sinking PvP to your hearts' content with the people you're at war with... and can still PvP nearly everyone else, just with minimal consequences. Opt-in PvP is the only way that will never cost you players, because you never deal with people being unwilling victims suffering significant losses.

This thread is not about sinking vs not sinking PvP. It's about PvP period, even non-sinking PvP.

Though, admittedly, I've only skimmed the last however many posts have gone up since my last post in here, so maybe it reverted to just sinking vs not sinking PvP.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but PvP is capable at everywhere except the "newbie" Archipelagos (Orion Archipelago in Emerald) in the other oceans, correct? At any time, another player-run ship could engage you and effectively force a BNav fight, and (probable) Swordfighting duel. The only difference is that they can't sink you, and if you lose the Swordfighting, they take the same loot that an NPC would.

Is that correct, or am I misunderstanding something?
[Oct 18, 2017 3:52:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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The classic PP system works well. You want to PvP with a chance of sinking? Declare war. When people take you up on the war, you get to do sinking PvP to your hearts' content with the people you're at war with... and can still PvP nearly everyone else, just with minimal consequences. Opt-in PvP is the only way that will never cost you players, because you never deal with people being unwilling victims suffering significant losses.

This thread is not about sinking vs not sinking PvP. It's about PvP period, even non-sinking PvP.

Though, admittedly, I've only skimmed the last however many posts have gone up since my last post in here, so maybe it reverted to just sinking vs not sinking PvP.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but PvP is capable at everywhere except the "newbie" Archipelagos (Orion Archipelago in Emerald) in the other oceans, correct? At any time, another player-run ship could engage you and effectively force a BNav fight, and (probable) Swordfighting duel. The only difference is that they can't sink you, and if you lose the Swordfighting, they take the same loot that an NPC would.

Is that correct, or am I misunderstanding something?

I'm not aware of any areas on any oceans being "PvP free". But, again, PvP not something I personally seek out, so it's entirely possible that I'm wrong.

To my knowledge the only time you can't attack another player is when that other player is on a navy vessel (aka a mission ["a mission from god"])
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[Oct 18, 2017 3:57:51 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
Nek0jin

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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I'm not aware of any areas on any oceans being "PvP free". But, again, PvP not something I personally seek out, so it's entirely possible that I'm wrong.

To my knowledge the only time you can't attack another player is when that other player is on a navy vessel (aka a mission ["a mission from god"])

Okay, thank you for the correction. No "newbie" safe zone. So any time you're sailing in the old oceans, you can be intercepted and engaged by another player. But the consequences are non-sinking (unless your flags are at War), and the penalties for losing the Swordfight/Brawling is the same as a PvE loss (again, unless your flags are at War).

I don't really have a problem with that. My opinions have changed over the years. I was fiercely anti-PvP from the start (and the PvP that games like UO offered did nothing to help). While I still hate griefing, ambushing, etc. I can deal with that... if the cost isn't too high. But the costs here aren't cheap. Lose the swordfighting, you lose everything in your hold except enough Rum to reach another island. That costs you, what, a few hours' pillaging? Tolerable.

But the sinking cost. Not only are you losing everything in the hold, you're losing the ship, and either having to buy a new one or rebuild the old one. Even at the cheapest level, that's not a small loss. Vanilla-normal Sloops cost 85k. Cutters are 125k. And it goes up steeply from there.

Either you spend dozens of hours to recoup that loss, or you open your pocketbook to "replenish" your losses. This isn't a casual, easily forgotten loss... this is the sort of loss that makes people quit games.
[Oct 18, 2017 4:29:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jcmorgan6

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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But the consequences are non-sinking (unless your flags are at War), and the penalties for losing the Swordfight/Brawling is the same as a PvE loss (again, unless your flags are at War).


You actually lose a little more from PvP than PvE, source

 
The winning ship takes 25% of the losers' hold and 50% of the booty instead of the usual 10%/20%

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Jjc on Emerald
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[Oct 18, 2017 4:51:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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I'm not aware of any areas on any oceans being "PvP free". But, again, PvP not something I personally seek out, so it's entirely possible that I'm wrong.

To my knowledge the only time you can't attack another player is when that other player is on a navy vessel (aka a mission ["a mission from god"])

Okay, thank you for the correction. No "newbie" safe zone. So any time you're sailing in the old oceans, you can be intercepted and engaged by another player. But the consequences are non-sinking (unless your flags are at War), and the penalties for losing the Swordfight/Brawling is the same as a PvE loss (again, unless your flags are at War).

I don't really have a problem with that. My opinions have changed over the years. I was fiercely anti-PvP from the start (and the PvP that games like UO offered did nothing to help). While I still hate griefing, ambushing, etc. I can deal with that... if the cost isn't too high. But the costs here aren't cheap. Lose the swordfighting, you lose everything in your hold except enough Rum to reach another island. That costs you, what, a few hours' pillaging? Tolerable.

But the sinking cost. Not only are you losing everything in the hold, you're losing the ship, and either having to buy a new one or rebuild the old one. Even at the cheapest level, that's not a small loss. Vanilla-normal Sloops cost 85k. Cutters are 125k. And it goes up steeply from there.

Either you spend dozens of hours to recoup that loss, or you open your pocketbook to "replenish" your losses. This isn't a casual, easily forgotten loss... this is the sort of loss that makes people quit games.

Or you hire someone to dnav (duty puzzle when in battle), if you aren't good at the puzzle.

Also, how often does it happen that the defender is unable to purely run away from the attacker? (meaning that they only tried to run; starting to run, then switching strategies to try and line up a good shot, then changing back to running doesn't count) I know that it happens, but I don't imagine it happens so often that it requires a code change.
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[Oct 18, 2017 5:07:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
jdl1963



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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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This thread is not about sinking vs not sinking PvP. It's about PvP period, even non-sinking PvP.

Though, admittedly, I've only skimmed the last however many posts have gone up since my last post in here, so maybe it reverted to just sinking vs not sinking PvP.

As someone who prefers fighting NPPs (but is not averse to PvP), I liked the way CoH/CoV handled PvP. Someone gets challenged, they have 30 seconds (might've been a minute) to accept the challenge. That exact solution wouldn't do well here, but maybe something similar?


Ah, another former resident of Paragon City! Greetings from Doc Scorpion of Freedom! I don't recall any challenges in PvP zones, but I stayed out of them unless a mission took me there. (Got into a PvP fight with one of my controllers once. Taught an idiot that attacking a controller's pet rather than the controller was stupid. Had to teach him four times before he went away and stopped bothering me.)

That being said, there's a lot of different ideas being bandied about. I think most of us are OK with simply eliminating (or limiting) sinking because that puts the advantage to griefers, gankers, and other lowlifes. Sinking simply puts too much risk on the casual player.

 
With that being said, I still believe that dnav to avoid PvP is sufficient (though could be improved upon by requiring the attacker to not have more pirates, including NPPs, than the defender).


To me "hire a better dnaver than you if you suck at it" isn't essentially different from "go play on another server or don't play if you don't like it". It's telling me "you must alter how you play or be prey and be sunk", and that's unacceptable.
[Oct 18, 2017 5:31:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nek0jin

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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Ah, another former resident of Paragon City! Greetings from Doc Scorpion of Freedom!

And greetings from Edifice Wrecks. *Atlas salute*

 
That being said, there's a lot of different ideas being bandied about. I think most of us are OK with simply eliminating (or limiting) sinking because that puts the advantage to griefers, gankers, and other lowlifes. Sinking simply puts too much risk on the casual player.

Agreed.

 
 
With that being said, I still believe that dnav to avoid PvP is sufficient (though could be improved upon by requiring the attacker to not have more pirates, including NPPs, than the defender).


To me "hire a better dnaver than you if you suck at it" isn't essentially different from "go play on another server or don't play if you don't like it". It's telling me "you must alter how you play or be prey and be sunk", and that's unacceptable.

Oh, was that the grand sum of that statement? I was still trying to figure out why he was giving suggestions that did nothing with regard to the problem. Now I see that he was saying, "Just don't lose." Which is a shallow and arguably immature counter; nobody is perfect, and even the best will lose once in a while.
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Sagacious

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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I think most of us are OK with simply eliminating (or limiting) sinking

We are not mostly in agreement here at all.
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[Oct 18, 2017 6:22:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Scarpath

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I have been playing a decent bit since the release of the ocean, nothing too serious. I've gone on quite a few pillages and SMHs. And so far, I've only personally ended up in one PvP situation. And that was just when another ship tried to out-job us for a cit run, and so we tried to sink them(Failing horridly since they just ran)

I think, instead of removing PvP, since it already is somewhat removed from many players, it should have some incentive to stay among the players who ENJOY PvP. Because let's face it: PvP can be a lot of fun, and some people life for it! You shouldn't just remove it because most of us don't like it. This ocean was already broadcast as a PvP ocean, after all.

Instead, offer a reason for players to go after other PvPers, instead of the players who don't really care for it. I made a suggestion here that I think could be quite good, and I'm sure you guys could come up with plenty others.

Call it a compromise if you will, between those who still want PvP, and those who don't want to deal with it(ME!).
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Precision168

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100k bounty for anyone who sinks the anti-PvPer.
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jdl1963



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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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Ah, another former resident of Paragon City! Greetings from Doc Scorpion of Freedom!

And greetings from Edifice Wrecks. *Atlas salute*


Dang, we're everywhere for such a small game. I miss it so much.

 
If I were a suspicious person, I would suspect that someone's trying to game the results by getting people to upvote the PvP options and NOT vote on "Fresh Start." But we're all respectable pirates here, and nobody would do that, right? Surely they'd realize that such discrepancies are obvious and detectable. ;)

Edit 10 minutes later: Now 40/21/19. Two more voters who voted for PvP options while not voting for the "fresh start" option. It's now gone beyond "suspicious" to "obviously meta-gaming."


And that's the basic problem with any poll here... too easily gamed with the small numbers and the self selecting nature.
[Oct 18, 2017 9:58:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sagacious

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If I were a suspicious person, I would suspect that someone's trying to game the results by getting people to upvote the PvP options and NOT vote on "Fresh Start." But we're all respectable pirates here, and nobody would do that, right? Surely they'd realize that such discrepancies are obvious and detectable. ;)

Edit 10 minutes later: Now 40/21/19. Two more voters who voted for PvP options while not voting for the "fresh start" option. It's now gone beyond "suspicious" to "obviously meta-gaming."

OMG poker is rigged too! Why would you think people were terribly interested in a fresh start? Judging by numerous messages in early testing and announcement threads, a good number of players would have rather kept their stuff amassed on the classic oceans for Dark Seas.

Also since when was 2 votes in 10 min a statistically significant indicator of anything? Or for that matter, the results from a poll that's existed for mere hours.
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Emerald & Obsidian - incognito!
#TeamPurple
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Sagacious at Oct 19, 2017 1:34:19 AM]
[Oct 19, 2017 1:01:21 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bahaakbu

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If I were a suspicious person, I would suspect that someone's trying to game the results by getting people to upvote the PvP options and NOT vote on "Fresh Start." But we're all respectable pirates here, and nobody would do that, right? Surely they'd realize that such discrepancies are obvious and detectable. ;)

Edit 10 minutes later: Now 40/21/19. Two more voters who voted for PvP options while not voting for the "fresh start" option. It's now gone beyond "suspicious" to "obviously meta-gaming."

OMG poker is rigged too! Why would you think people were terribly interested in a fresh start? Judging by numerous messages in early testing and announcement threads, a good number of players would have rather kept their stuff amassed on the classic oceans for Dark Seas.

Also since when was 2 votes in 10 min a statistically significant indicator of anything? Or for that matter, the results from a poll that's existed for mere hours.


Exactly. That's why I made this one: https://goo.gl/forms/cR0Xz3xfEhoILtok2

By steam infographics, in the last two weeks, 8000+-2500 steam users logged into dark seas. By worst estimates, 10000 players. For the questions with high gap between answers, about 100 should be enough. For the ones with head to head results (Like PvP right now.), we'll need about 370 participants to get enough statistical power. I intend to run this for a week, and then release the results with attached statistics. If we can't hit that many entries, well, we could run the problem of false negatives, but, buuut, I can't know for sure before running it. I'll see what I can do from there, but I'm a MD, not a statistician.
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Cheesemighty on Obsidian.
I'm trying to compare the opinions of people on obsidian ocean, and see if the difference is statistically significant. It's anonymous and takes less than 5 minutes: https://goo.gl/forms/6icpkudNjlb1PmcF3
[Oct 19, 2017 3:23:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Meeshdragon



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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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Pretty heavily disagree with the idea of opting out. Yes it's pretty tough at times, but that's sort of the point of this server, to be PVP. If you don't want to play pvp all the time, then play one of the many other oceans on there? I mean, I know they're not populated right now, but if enough people feel strongly enough about the pvp thing to move, then there's your playerbase. In the meantime, I don't think it makes sense to cut this ocean of its one defining feature.
[Oct 19, 2017 4:15:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jcmorgan6

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Also, I believe most of the traffic to the previous poll came from my in game postings. I'll do it tomorrow, I guess after revising this form.


If you spam in-game global, you'll need to do it on Emerald and Cerulean too, else you're just going to make your findings bias towards what Obsidian represents.
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[Oct 19, 2017 5:33:11 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jdl1963



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Why would you think people were terribly interested in a fresh start? Judging by numerous messages in early testing and announcement threads, a good number of players would have rather kept their stuff amassed on the classic oceans for Dark Seas.


Did it never occur to you that maybe those threads from months ago aren't actually reflective of the current situation? Especially when a number of us returnees didn't start on the new ocean until the email from the developers barely a month ago - weeks after the early testing period.

 
Also since when was 2 votes in 10 min a statistically significant indicator of anything?


Nobody claimed it was statistically significant - only that a sudden and sharp reversal of the trend was something worth noting. Which it is. When correlated with the posting times of interim results in this thread... the one-sidedness of those responses make it blatantly obvious someone was trying to game the results.
[Oct 19, 2017 10:34:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Mars

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PvP. Anywhere, everywhere.
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[Oct 19, 2017 10:48:21 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sagacious

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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Why would you think people were terribly interested in a fresh start? Judging by numerous messages in early testing and announcement threads, a good number of players would have rather kept their stuff amassed on the classic oceans for Dark Seas.


Did it never occur to you that maybe those threads from months ago aren't actually reflective of the current situation? Especially when a number of us returnees didn't start on the new ocean until the email from the developers barely a month ago - weeks after the early testing period.

They may not have represented your own opinion on the matter, but they are nevertheless still very relevant.
 
 
Also since when was 2 votes in 10 min a statistically significant indicator of anything?

Nobody claimed it was statistically significant

Nek0jin wrote: 
Stuff that indicates voting was drawing to a close; that votes accumulated so far were presumably representative of the ocean; that 2 people voting for similar things constituted some form of polling fraud.

 
- only that a sudden and sharp reversal of the trend was something worth noting. Which it is. When correlated with the posting times of interim results in this thread... the one-sidedness of those responses make it blatantly obvious someone was trying to game the results.

No it doesn't. You are wrong.
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Emerald & Obsidian - incognito!
#TeamPurple
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Sagacious at Oct 19, 2017 11:00:16 AM]
[Oct 19, 2017 10:55:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bahaakbu

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Re: Server future, Opt-out PvP, Neutral Crews (BIG WALL OF TEXT) Reply to this Post
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When correlated with the posting times of interim results in this thread... the one-sidedness of those responses make it blatantly obvious someone was trying to game the results.


What? How, what? How did you arrive at that conclusion?

 
Why would you think people were terribly interested in a fresh start? Judging by numerous messages in early testing and announcement threads, a good number of players would have rather kept their stuff amassed on the classic oceans for Dark Seas.


I'll point out this doesn't mean much statistically, currently, but to give you an idea:Within the population that has participated, 60% has been playing 10+ years and 25% playing for 5-10 years and within this population, 24/32 said a fresh start was what we needed, while 6/32 disagreed.

This of course, runs to this problem here:
 
If you spam in-game global, you'll need to do it on Emerald and Cerulean too, else you're just going to make your findings bias towards what Obsidian represents.


Then please do help me out. I do have free time, but I can't spend all my evenings ocean hopping. Let's get this biscuit done, so we can actually make some claims.

There are only two non-obsidian players participated.

Edit: I also would like to point out, there's a trend towards pro-PvP attitude, but it's nothing to make claims on. Like I said, help me out, get some other players on here, and we can conclude this once and for all.
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Cheesemighty on Obsidian.
I'm trying to compare the opinions of people on obsidian ocean, and see if the difference is statistically significant. It's anonymous and takes less than 5 minutes: https://goo.gl/forms/6icpkudNjlb1PmcF3
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