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xelto

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Re: Something has to be done about Doubloons Reply to this Post
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Once upon a time, OOO had a deal with one of the survey companies for them to pay doubloons for survey responses. It died because of problems on both sides of the deal (players quick-clicking through surveys; the company not always ponying up the doubloons afterward). But I suspect it was part of the reason doubloons remained low for the first part of Y!PP's life.

I've occasionally wondered if Y!PP could do something where players opted-in to advertising or something else that would generate in-game doubloons for the players. (Opt-in only, because I personally detest most advertising, and would like some way to avoid it, myself.)
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
[Oct 10, 2017 2:59:09 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Eyes

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Re: Something has to be done about Doubloons Reply to this Post
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Once upon a time, OOO had a deal with one of the survey companies for them to pay doubloons for survey responses. It died because of problems on both sides of the deal (players quick-clicking through surveys; the company not always ponying up the doubloons afterward). But I suspect it was part of the reason doubloons remained low for the first part of Y!PP's life.

I've occasionally wondered if Y!PP could do something where players opted-in to advertising or something else that would generate in-game doubloons for the players. (Opt-in only, because I personally detest most advertising, and would like some way to avoid it, myself.)


Ah, I gained quite a few doubloons using fake information for those surveys. Nice idea.
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[Oct 10, 2017 4:27:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bahaakbu

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Re: Something has to be done about Doubloons Reply to this Post
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Once upon a time, OOO had a deal with one of the survey companies for them to pay doubloons for survey responses. It died because of problems on both sides of the deal (players quick-clicking through surveys; the company not always ponying up the doubloons afterward). But I suspect it was part of the reason doubloons remained low for the first part of Y!PP's life.

I've occasionally wondered if Y!PP could do something where players opted-in to advertising or something else that would generate in-game doubloons for the players. (Opt-in only, because I personally detest most advertising, and would like some way to avoid it, myself.)


The survey system is a bit archaic again. Wouldn't be so much of "getting on with the times", but rather a step backwards (I haven't seen a survey system in a good game for at least 5 years, I think?). It is also usually location locked. I remember not being able to participate in those just because I wasn't in US. Makes you feel like... Uh. Yes.

Ads are awfully, awfully annoying if not done right and always run the risk of making the game look like a knockoff appstore game (Even more than it is now). Since the UI is already more crowded than a gold box day in a bank, I'm a bit iffy about this one. I wouldn't say absolutely not if it was like on the logon or logoff screen, but I don't think there's any room for it on the main screen right now.
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Cheesemighty on Obsidian.
I'm trying to compare the opinions of people on obsidian ocean, and see if the difference is statistically significant. It's anonymous and takes less than 5 minutes: https://goo.gl/forms/6icpkudNjlb1PmcF3
[Oct 11, 2017 2:54:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Re: Something has to be done about Doubloons Reply to this Post
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The survey system is a bit archaic again. Wouldn't be so much of "getting on with the times", but rather a step backwards (I haven't seen a survey system in a good game for at least 5 years, I think?). It is also usually location locked. I remember not being able to participate in those just because I wasn't in US. Makes you feel like... Uh. Yes.

I wasn't suggesting bringing it back; I was just using it as an example.

 
Ads are awfully, awfully annoying if not done right and always run the risk of making the game look like a knockoff appstore game (Even more than it is now). Since the UI is already more crowded than a gold box day in a bank, I'm a bit iffy about this one.

I was thinking that first, you have to opt in to get them. Not have an opt-out option; you actually have to say that you're willing to have them.

As for placement or timing: full-streaming ads in the 1-minute breaks in multi-ship environments. Static ads, changing every minute, in the upper right corner during parlor/crafting sessions, covering up what is currently a picture of the place you are (which is simply not needed when you're busy).
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
[Oct 11, 2017 5:05:15 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bahaakbu

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Re: Something has to be done about Doubloons Reply to this Post
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I wasn't suggesting bringing it back; I was just using it as an example.

Ah, my bad :3

 
I was thinking that first, you have to opt in to get them. Not have an opt-out option; you actually have to say that you're willing to have them.

As for placement or timing: full-streaming ads in the 1-minute breaks in multi-ship environments. Static ads, changing every minute, in the upper right corner during parlor/crafting sessions, covering up what is currently a picture of the place you are (which is simply not needed when you're busy).


Hmm. As long as it's not intrusive, I'm up for that. Maybe with a feature that enables you to opt out at any time, although resetting your reward timer?
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Cheesemighty on Obsidian.
I'm trying to compare the opinions of people on obsidian ocean, and see if the difference is statistically significant. It's anonymous and takes less than 5 minutes: https://goo.gl/forms/6icpkudNjlb1PmcF3
[Oct 11, 2017 6:21:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

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Re: Something has to be done about Doubloons Reply to this Post
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The size of the active playerbase, especially the size of the active playerbase on a ship sailing around where those ads get served is so small that the ad revenue would be basically negligible especially compared to the ill will it would create among players.

Kingdom of Loathing has a larger active playerbase, who are all constantly doing new pageloads to increase the rate at which ads get served to them, they did it for a month, and it got so little money (A full order of magnitude less than the ad guys who pitched ads to them told them they'd get) that they cancelled it after one month and never looked back.

Remember, the static cost of a dubloon at the low rate is about 25 cents each. I don't know if you realize just how many ads you need to watch before the company has made 25 cents off you watching ads.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Devonin at Oct 11, 2017 8:00:02 AM]
[Oct 11, 2017 7:59:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bahaakbu

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Re: Something has to be done about Doubloons Reply to this Post
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The size of the active playerbase, especially the size of the active playerbase on a ship sailing around where those ads get served is so small that the ad revenue would be basically negligible especially compared to the ill will it would create among players.

Kingdom of Loathing has a larger active playerbase, who are all constantly doing new pageloads to increase the rate at which ads get served to them, they did it for a month, and it got so little money (A full order of magnitude less than the ad guys who pitched ads to them told them they'd get) that they cancelled it after one month and never looked back.

Remember, the static cost of a dubloon at the low rate is about 25 cents each. I don't know if you realize just how many ads you need to watch before the company has made 25 cents off you watching ads.


I feel like it'll create more bad than good as well, but just discussing ideas I guess.

Although, I'm still sticking by my login rewards system (since it's already quite common everywhere).
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Cheesemighty on Obsidian.
I'm trying to compare the opinions of people on obsidian ocean, and see if the difference is statistically significant. It's anonymous and takes less than 5 minutes: https://goo.gl/forms/6icpkudNjlb1PmcF3
[Oct 11, 2017 10:33:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Re: Something has to be done about Doubloons Reply to this Post
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TRemember, the static cost of a dubloon at the low rate is about 25 cents each. I don't know if you realize just how many ads you need to watch before the company has made 25 cents off you watching ads.

GH wouldn't have to get a full $0.25 to pay out a dub. Keep in mind that they don't get $0.25 per dub in the first place; most doubloons are bought in bulk at a lower price per, and then they have to give a cut to Steam or whichever financing system they were purchased through, losing, I believe, 3-30% of the purchase price.

Added to that, since the end user wouldn't see the actual revenue, they could say that 15¢ worth of advertising is worth 1 doubloon-- or 10¢-- or 5¢-- and we would never know, so we wouldn't be complaining that "real money" doubloons should be reduced in price, as well.

Now, would they make enough money to be worth it? Beats me. I'm not saying this is something they should do, just something that made me curious if it was viable/something that's been looked into in the first place, since I don't recall ever seeing it suggested in the decade I've been playing this game. And I do think that the surveys I mentioned earlier did help keep dub prices low for a while, even if they went down in a spectacular fireball by the end.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
[Oct 11, 2017 4:24:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

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Re: Something has to be done about Doubloons Reply to this Post
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Serving one ad to every player currently online might get them a dollar.

There are so many ways for them to increase revenue and manage the rate of inflation in the economy that aren't ads. Ads will cost them players far in excess of the revenue they'd make. Even if they were made opt-in, you'd sort of be stupid not to take free premium currency until it got too annoying and if GH is lucky, they just opt back out, instead of decide it's not worth it.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Devonin at Oct 11, 2017 4:30:08 PM]
[Oct 11, 2017 4:28:53 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: Something has to be done about Doubloons Reply to this Post
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So as we come to the end of the first week Gold box season we have seen dubs jump about 500-800 poe.

As a shop keeper orders basically went from unable to keep up to forced reduction of price to get a sale and staff reduction. Which is fine its basic Supply and Demand. It shows clearly that the economy takes a hit when dubs go up in price.

As far as jobbing I have noticed a drop off in jobbers applying for things and playing the game. Others have stated they noticed more then a slight drop off.

The Activity Tracker show a slight drop off however those jobbing that I spoke to say its become harder to fill medium ships.

This game needs some form of dub control, (and or) the release of kades soon so we don't continue to see the decline in numbers.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
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?Retired? On a Break? I found a new love...
Casual player or yet another who moved on.
[Oct 15, 2017 7:09:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jdl1963



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Re: Something has to be done about Doubloons Reply to this Post
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So as we come to the end of the first week Gold box season we have seen dubs jump about 500-800 poe.

As a shop keeper orders basically went from unable to keep up to forced reduction of price to get a sale and staff reduction. Which is fine its basic Supply and Demand. It shows clearly that the economy takes a hit when dubs go up in price.


Does it? Or does it clearly shows the economy takes a hit when players decide to spend their poe elsewhere?

Gold boxes went on sale a week ago and my jobs only took a beating two days ago. (That is, my shipyard jobs, my ironmonger jobs are going great guns.)
[Oct 16, 2017 12:18:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: Something has to be done about Doubloons Reply to this Post
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So as we come to the end of the first week Gold box season we have seen dubs jump about 500-800 poe.

As a shop keeper orders basically went from unable to keep up to forced reduction of price to get a sale and staff reduction. Which is fine its basic Supply and Demand. It shows clearly that the economy takes a hit when dubs go up in price.


Does it? Or does it clearly shows the economy takes a hit when players decide to spend their poe elsewhere?

Gold boxes went on sale a week ago and my jobs only took a beating two days ago. (That is, my shipyard jobs, my ironmonger jobs are going great guns.)


I guess I should have been more specific, any product that requires a dub delivery has dropped off (Ships, Swords, Bludgeons, Paint). Cannonballs and rum are still moving just fine however not at the same prices.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)
?Retired? On a Break? I found a new love...
Casual player or yet another who moved on.
[Oct 16, 2017 4:06:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jdl1963



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Re: Something has to be done about Doubloons Reply to this Post
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I guess I should have been more specific, any product that requires a dub delivery has dropped off (Ships, Swords, Bludgeons, Paint). Cannonballs and rum are still moving just fine however not at the same prices.


In other words it's not people spending poe elsewhere (as I surmised), it's people spending dubs elsewhere. Still consistent with my theory, and not with yours.

Always work forward from the data, not backwards from the conclusion. The latter invariably leads you to grief.
[Oct 16, 2017 9:13:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jdl1963



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Re: Something has to be done about Doubloons Reply to this Post
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So as we come to the end of the first week Gold box season we have seen dubs jump about 500-800 poe.

As a shop keeper orders basically went from unable to keep up to forced reduction of price to get a sale and staff reduction. Which is fine its basic Supply and Demand. It shows clearly that the economy takes a hit when dubs go up in price.
 

I guess I should have been more specific, any product that requires a dub delivery has dropped off (Ships, Swords, Bludgeons, Paint). Cannonballs and rum are still moving just fine however not at the same prices.


Based on my labor reports (SY jobs), the situation began to correct itself within hours of Gold Boxes no longer being on sale. After two days of no SY work, I had 66 hours on Mon, and 71 hours on Tues. Dub prices appear to be trending downwards as well.

The Gold Boxes definitely produced a hit, but the economy appears to be recovering nicely.
[Oct 18, 2017 12:45:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Cefferis

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Re: Something has to be done about Doubloons Reply to this Post
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I was pretty excited to see Puzzle Pirates pop up on Steam as I was really big into this game years ago. But that excitement fizzled out pretty quickly when i saw the new server was Doubloons...

It's not just pay-to-win, they expect a huge payment for the cosmetic things too. Why does it cost 5 real dollars to order a new outfit?

I just can't find the value in investing that kind of money in such an aged game.
[Oct 19, 2017 12:14:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sagacious

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Re: Something has to be done about Doubloons Reply to this Post
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It's not just pay-to-win, they expect a huge payment for the cosmetic things too. Why does it cost 5 real dollars to order a new outfit?

It's not pay to win at all, in fact paying only gets you the cosmetic items faster. There's much to be done without investing real money, and it takes no time at all to get enough PoE to exchange for doubloons to get badges (of which some are retired now anyway), and yer favourite piratey outfit.
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Cerulean & Meridian - Icemeister
Emerald & Obsidian - incognito!
#TeamPurple
[Oct 19, 2017 12:22:10 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: Something has to be done about Doubloons Reply to this Post
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It's not just pay-to-win, they expect a huge payment for the cosmetic things too. Why does it cost 5 real dollars to order a new outfit?

It's not pay to win at all, in fact paying only gets you the cosmetic items faster. There's much to be done without investing real money, and it takes no time at all to get enough PoE to exchange for doubloons to get badges (of which some are retired now anyway), and yer favourite piratey outfit.


LOL this game is very much pay to win, If it wasn't we wouldn't see dubs selling near kade days. Lets face it many pay to win no you don't have to if you want to play for a few years to do one kade then they those that pay to win take it next week and your back to saving for your next kade a few years from now.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)
?Retired? On a Break? I found a new love...
Casual player or yet another who moved on.
[Oct 19, 2017 1:00:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sagacious

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Re: Something has to be done about Doubloons Reply to this Post
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I bought doubloons and blew it all on poker, gold boxes and some badges for alts. Did I win the game yet?
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Cerulean & Meridian - Icemeister
Emerald & Obsidian - incognito!
#TeamPurple
[Oct 19, 2017 1:09:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bahaakbu

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Re: Something has to be done about Doubloons Reply to this Post
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I bought doubloons and blew it all on poker, gold boxes and some badges for alts. Did I win the game yet?


No he means, to "win" the game, someone has to throw quite a hefty sum into the game, to do blockades, open shops, buy swords/bludgeons, lead a pillage. May not be him, or you, but someone.

This game really cashes on the fact that it's filling a niche. There are obviously people out there, dropping cash like whale doodoos. I don't see a way of the economy running the way to feed all the nonpaying players otherwise (now I wish I added how many doubloons you purchase with real money in a year/month sort of question to my questionnaire).

I understand the non-profit organization doesn't mean "will work for free" (disregarding my suspicion about GH being a "non-profit organization"). The developers still need to eat, of course. But apart from ship delivery costs, I didn't see a change in this direction (Oh maybe the unlimited labor/officer badge DLC) The economy is the same as it was before.

And don't get me wrong, I don't mind dropping a meals worth to a game every month, if I'm enjoying the experience, but I feel like the puzzle pirates asking for way more. Everything adds up, and I would have dropped more than I did to an AAA title before I know it. This obviously is also related to dollars value in my country, but even still.

Also would like to point out, people buy their way to prestige (however ephemeral and meaningless it may be), with real money. You want a cool looking clothes and a portrait with them? Better drop some dosh on the table. Yeah sure, you could do about 40-50 hours of pillaging to get that amount. But, is that reasonable? I can't, I just can't justify amount of hours spend and the reward that I would get. Screw cosmetics, if I wanted to get any of the bigger ships, how many hours would I have to grind to get to it? Think as an average player, please. Please. The gap between premium currency boost vs non-paid player is huge right now and this is a very archaic and bad practice.

And furthermore, this game does the good old early MMO thing that it feeds on some people's need to feel important, to feel like somebody, to be part of a community. Through clothes, through other items and concepts, and thus, people are happy(?) to drop money into it. People would feel they let their friends down, or they were less, if they don't participate. And excuse me, but that's properly scuppered up.

./me stops ranting.
----------------------------------------
Cheesemighty on Obsidian.
I'm trying to compare the opinions of people on obsidian ocean, and see if the difference is statistically significant. It's anonymous and takes less than 5 minutes: https://goo.gl/forms/6icpkudNjlb1PmcF3
[Oct 19, 2017 3:06:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: Something has to be done about Doubloons Reply to this Post
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I bought doubloons and blew it all on poker, gold boxes and some badges for alts. Did I win the game yet?


I think you did it wrong.

But if you can mail in to spend more then $200. for dubs you can clearly see that power is acquired with wealth. If I chose to spend my money made in 4 hours at work on the game and you pillaged or what ever you do you would be hard pressed to make more money in the same time. Therefore I can pay to win. Seeing that the game can't be won only destroyed by power grabbers which in the end drives away the real players not the payers. If paying to win wasn't a thing why are Real Money Transactions a problem. Anyway this is a topic on dubs you can think real money spent doesn't give significant advantage.

I guess in the end one must decide what winning is. Best clothing, most ships, most friends, fams ect... all which can be bought with real money/dubs.
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Filthyjake all oceans (Obsidian Primary)
Filthyjake6145 (discord)
?Retired? On a Break? I found a new love...
Casual player or yet another who moved on.
[Oct 19, 2017 3:18:26 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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