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Kriegers6



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Pillaging Concerns and Suggestions. Reply to this Post
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There are a few bugs that have been overlooked for a while that I think maybe should be brought to light again

- Brigands/Barbarians (and sometimes your own ship) sometimes going/spawning off a chart-able course.

- Spawns mysteriously disappearing at a league point (especially at the league point of an island) - Not sure if its a bug or if it's designed to happen like that.
- Spawning ships that do not shoot at you the entire battle and do not carry any greedies. - On longer Pillages, I've noticed after about 8 wins in a row on Yellow Routes (Osprey or Pleaides route) ships stop shooting and greedies completely disappear for however many battles i do for the rest of the pillage. Edit: (No Prior losses on the pillage in question)

These two are technically not bugs, more of a nuisance.
- Ship's starting position in a sea battle being very unfavorable. (I get this almost every other battle)

The screenshot is from one of the better starting positions, I'll update a worse screenshot the next time I pillage.
- Abuse of the disengage/Re-engage in order to attain really high Battle Navigation Scores. - Pirates are able to do an initial battle where the brigand/barbarian engages their ship, battle it out for a few turns in an attempt to damage the ship resulting in them taking damage as well. After causing a lot of damage to the opposing ship, they disengage and re-engage the same ship. The opposing ship still has damage and after 3-5 turns becomes dead in the water. They can then sit comfortably behind it, over-maxing (Hitting a ship with more shots than is required to max it to boost ones score) before grappling it to register a very high score. A little similar to the pre-puzzling exploit used in competitions that is under a lot of scrutiny.
Suggestion: Make battles that are detected to be a re-engage, unrated.
- Treasure Haul expos lasting up to 45 minutes - This is awesome because, the longer the Expo the more poe the pirates get from it, but after 30 minutes+ of doing said puzzle non stop, the fun factor starts to dry out.

While I still have a bit of your attention, here are a few features that may be a long shot but could really help improve the already amazing features added to the pillage side of the house.
- Pillage chests added to the vessel owners chests similar to the way it's done on sea monster hunts.
- Ability to turn greedies on or off, whether in the battle configuration set pre-pillage or at the beginning of a battle. (Why? - Some battles especially at the Very Hard difficulty are not very Greedy friendly due to the already difficult nature of the fray)
- Unrated PVP Sea Battles / Unrated Sea Battles - Especially in dark seas where PVPing would become a norm.
- Greedy lockers divided based on performance (The same way it is done on Sea Monster Hunts). Edit: Just like SMHs have them, there can also be chests awarded for "consistent puzzling". I suggested this because with the current system, pirates standing around for the entire duration of the pillage have an equal share of chests as those that puzzled the entire time. It is of course, "Puzzle" Pirates. Doing this will promote and reward those that not necessarily puzzle better but are actually puzzling.
- Addition of chests to the Treasure Haul Expo, whether lavish lockers or the same chests used in forage expos (Would really take out the boring factor from those extremely long hauls)
- Yeti and Forage lockers giving out more than just poe, even if it's just trinkets or old items.
- A form of tutorial on the notice board teaching pirates about different features of the game such as teaming or how greedy brigands work etc
- Sinky PVPs ending with ability to treasure haul the sunk ship - No fun in spending 15 mins chasing a ship around in a pvp, sinking it and not having anything to show for it.
- Sinky PVP trophies (I'm sure is probably coming with Dark Seas).

While I'm sure most of the suggestions might be controversial, they are things I've heard murmured among jobbers and fellow bnavers and think addition of even one or two of these features and fixing of some of the "exploits" and bugs might go a long way to making more enjoyable.

Thank you again for adding greedies and increasing the payouts!
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Dr. Kriegers of Emerald
Pillage Battle Navigation Enthusiast!
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[Edit 6 times, last edit by Kriegers6 at Jun 8, 2017 5:55:59 AM]
[Jun 7, 2017 8:38:41 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Twistedxmnj



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Re: Pillaging Concerns and Suggestions. Reply to this Post
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+1 To everything Kriegers said, I have experiences same bugs multiple times..i also would like the developers to consider adding more mass to Baghlaghs, one forage on certain routes and your mass is full, which leads you to porting and once you port your booty ramp is all reset.
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[Jun 7, 2017 9:05:04 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
beast231



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Re: Pillaging Concerns and Suggestions. Reply to this Post
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I dont have all of those annoyances but I do have most.
+1

[quote]
- Abuse of the disengage/Re-engage in order to attain really high Battle Navigation Scores.
Suggestion: Make battles that are detected to be a re-engage, unrated.[quote]
I feel they should change this especially with PvP to just not be able to. you cannot re-engage that you won/disengaged from until your pillage is over. If you were disengaged on then you have to wait 3-5 to attack again. Same if you lost.

[quote]
- Treasure Haul expos lasting up to 45 minutes - This is awesome because, the longer the Expo the more poe the pirates get from it, but after 30 minutes+ of doing said puzzle non stop, the fun factor starts to dry out.
[/quote]
I agree to add something. Even after 10-15 minutes I start wondering when it will end. Adding the chests where you can only move up and down might cause immovable chests that no plan can stop.
[Jun 7, 2017 9:27:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Snuby

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Re: Pillaging Concerns and Suggestions. Reply to this Post
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I know very little about PVP, just dropping my 2 cents on pillage stuff.
 
Spawns mysteriously disappearing at a league point

I assume that they just port at islands. It's weird when they disapear at a random league point though.
 
Spawning ships that do not shoot at you the entire battle

Never seen it but I pretty much only pillage in green routes nowadays.
 
do not carry any greedies

Whenever I lose 1 battle, the greedy "ramp" goes absolutely bonkers and I usually get 3 or 4 battles in a row without a single greedie. It pretty much forces me to port and divide booty if I want to keep getting greedies. Very annoying, but pillage ramps have always been bugged to hell. I find it ridiculous that brigand/barbarian ramps are separated.
 
Ship's starting position in a sea battle being very unfavorable

Happens rarely to me, and when it does I just spend the first 2/3 turns getting into a better position, on open map.
 
Abuse of the disengage/Re-engage in order to attain really high Battle Navigation Scores

Make it impossible to reengage. There done.
 
Treasure Haul expos lasting up to 45 minutes

Been a complaint pretty much since day 1 they released this. Maybe adding chests would make it less tedious. I hate TH without chests, but I love the regular version.
 
Pillage chests added to the vessel owners chests

If you mean greedy lockers I disagree. VOs exist on SMH because you are risking the ship sink (except KH but well).
 
Ability to turn greedies on or off

Unnecessary, it's a matter of authority over the people aboard. Greedies were intended to be extra risk on pillages, not extra bonus. If you want pure poe runs, just tell your jobbers to ignore greedies, the fact that you cant force them to do so is part of the gameplay and a multiplayer game.
 
Greedy lockers divided based on performance

Disagree, bad puzzlers should have the right to lockers aswell if they are puzzling. If someone that is good at carp but sucks at sails and is only pulling fine/good but is doing so because the ship needs moves, they deserve lockers aswell. If you feel that in a big ship, lots of people are lazing because there are simply not enough stations and they still get lockers awarded to them, remember that you also get more enemies/greedies because those people are aboard. If someone is purposely lazing/booching to mooch lockers just plank them.
 
Addition of chests to the Treasure Haul Expo

Yes please, poe only chests
 
Yeti and Forage lockers giving out more than just poe

Just poe is fine, you also get a portrait for free. We get enough junk and rags from everywhere else.
 
Thank you again for adding greedies and increasing the payouts!

Atleast in emerald, I feel pillage payouts are perfectly balanced.
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[Jun 8, 2017 12:30:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gunnerfreak

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Re: Pillaging Concerns and Suggestions. Reply to this Post
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Kriegers6 wrote: 
- Brigands/Barbarians (and sometimes your own ship) sometimes going/spawning off a chart-able course.
[img]https://thumb.ibb.co/iVAdNa/Puzzle_Pirates_Kriegers_10.png[/img

Ugh, yeah. This spawning issue is rather annoying!

There's also another issue of ocean view lagging while viewing the chart board. For example, when looking for spawns and your ship stops at LP, the ocean view can be anywhere BUT the LP.... This happens most often when in the Crow's Nest.
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[Jun 8, 2017 4:40:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Re: Pillaging Concerns and Suggestions. Reply to this Post
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- Brigands/Barbarians (and sometimes your own ship) sometimes going/spawning off a chart-able course.
- Spawns mysteriously disappearing at a league point (especially at the league point of an island) - Not sure if its a bug or if it's designed to happen like that.

It's a feature. Designed so that if you're avoiding battles for whatever reason, the game can respawn a new foe for you to try to avoid. I'm not going to say it's a good feature, mind you. But one that's buried so deep in the code that it will probably never be changed.

 
- Spawning ships that do not shoot at you the entire battle and do not carry any greedies. - On longer Pillages, I've noticed after about 8 wins in a row on Yellow Routes (Osprey or Pleaides route) ships stop shooting and greedies completely disappear for however many battles i do for the rest of the pillage.

If you didn't have a loss before that, do a /bug report. Or if it was a full 8 battles without any at all, that's probably /bug worth as well. But yeah, I think losses affect the greedy ramp too much. Resetting it is fine. But my observation is that it actually drops it below the starting point.

 
- Abuse of the disengage/Re-engage in order to attain really high Battle Navigation Scores. - Pirates are able to do an initial battle where the brigand/barbarian engages their ship, battle it out for a few turns in an attempt to damage the ship resulting in them taking damage as well. After causing a lot of damage to the opposing ship, they disengage and re-engage the same ship. The opposing ship still has damage and after 3-5 turns becomes dead in the water. They can then sit comfortably behind it, over-maxing (Hitting a ship with more shots than is required to max it to boost ones score) before grappling it to register a very high score. A little similar to the pre-puzzling exploit used in competitions that is under a lot of scrutiny.
Suggestion: Make battles that are detected to be a re-engage, unrated.

My solution is to jump ship if someone does the engage/re-engage routine. And ignore anyone bragging about their bnav rating on the notice board.

 
- Pillage chests added to the vessel owners chests similar to the way it's done on sea monster hunts.

Hell, NO! There is already too much incentive to run a pillage, leading to a too man chiefs/not enough indians problem. It's hard enough now to fill a ship to pillage with, we do not want to go back to the way it was six years ago! It's been a long slog to get it this far!

 
- Ability to turn greedies on or off, whether in the battle configuration set pre-pillage or at the beginning of a battle. (Why? - Some battles especially at the Very Hard difficulty are not very Greedy friendly due to the already difficult nature of the fray)

Convince your jobbers to ignore the greedies. If you simply turn them off, you'll lose some of your jobbers, who went back to pillaging from sea monsters because of them.

 
- Greedy lockers divided based on performance (The same way it is done on Sea Monster Hunts)

No. Greedies were designed to be something fun for casual players, while still being appealing to more experienced players, as well. We have enough elitist parts of the game, let's let greedies remain casual-player-friendly.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by xelto at Jun 8, 2017 5:04:06 AM]
[Jun 8, 2017 5:02:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kriegers6



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Re: Pillaging Concerns and Suggestions. Reply to this Post
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Made a few edits to the original post to clarify why some of the suggestions were made
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[Jun 8, 2017 6:02:02 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Radway



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Re: Pillaging Concerns and Suggestions. Reply to this Post
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- Ship's starting position in a sea battle being very unfavorable. (I get this almost every other battle)

Although ship's starting position is supposed to be a random spot on the battle board, but I do agree that the initial position in a battle -for both sides- should give the navver the ability to move in every direction freely, and not look like a forced 1-2 turns. Maybe the best way to make this possible is by making the battle board's frame a no-spawn zone (2 blocks in every direction) and making rock spawn impossible 2 blocks in every direction around the ships.

 
- Abuse of the disengage/Re-engage in order to attain really high Battle Navigation Scores.
Suggestion: Make battles that are detected to be a re-engage, unrated.

+1

 
- Treasure Haul expos lasting up to 45 minutes - This is awesome because, the longer the Expo the more poe the pirates get from it, but after 30 minutes+ of doing said puzzle non stop, the fun factor starts to dry out.


The problem with this one is the amount of poe per time per pirate. Making TH expos take less time = less poe in return. Maybe adding chests could help...

 

- Pillage chests added to the vessel owners chests similar to the way it's done on sea monster hunts.

As mentioned above, VO chests are supposed to be a reward for risking a ship in a sinky SMH (except for KH which I am going to rant about in a different thread soon). Making lavish lockers/ pillage chests part of the VO chests takes away the whole purpose of having this feature.

 
- Ability to turn greedies on or off

I don't think this would be an easy thing to do, and doing it will cause more problems than the one it would -supposedly- solve. Best way is as mentioned by others; have your jobbers do what you want them to.

 

- Unrated PVP Sea Battles / Unrated Sea Battles - Especially in dark seas where PVPing would become a norm.

+1

 
- Greedy lockers divided based on performance


Greedies is supposed to be a feature that helps new players have a better start in the game (the more green pirates you have on a ship, the more greedies spawn). Making the devy based on performance will take part of the purpose as well, since not all new players know how to do the puzzles properly. However, making performance a secondary factor in the devy sounds like a better idea (regardless to what score achieved, being on a station for a certain amount of time guarantees bonus points).


 
- Addition of chests to the Treasure Haul Expo, whether lavish lockers or the same chests used in forage expos (Would really take out the boring factor from those extremely long hauls)

+1
Poe chests to make TH expos shorter, a set of small items as well maybe (swords and bludgeons in good-old stats?)

 
- Yeti and Forage lockers giving out more than just poe, even if it's just trinkets or old items.

+1
A new set of Yeti and forage expo trinkets? Maybe some small furniture as well.
Not too much however..

 
- A form of tutorial on the notice board teaching pirates about different features of the game such as teaming or how greedy brigands work etc

+1

 
- Sinky PVPs ending with ability to treasure haul the sunk ship - No fun in spending 15 mins chasing a ship around in a pvp, sinking it and not having anything to show for it.

+1

 
- Sinky PVP trophies (I'm sure is probably coming with Dark Seas).

+10
This should be taken to a new separate thread!
This also makes me think about blockades and how the only trophies you get from a blockade are those buoys trophies, while there are no trophies for sinking enemy ships (PVP blockades) which is kind of lame..

IMO adding sinky PVP tophies will also be a good indicator of good navving skills, since it's PVP and sinky.


Good thread in general, I'd love to see more of these posts in the forums instead of these "the reason PP is dying" posts.
[Jun 8, 2017 8:33:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jcmorgan6

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Re: Pillaging Concerns and Suggestions. Reply to this Post
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I'd add another bug, re-charting at islands resets peoples puzzle boards, it also currently resets the greedy ramp, I guess it counts as porting?

Brigand Kings also reset the greedy ramp, I wonder if you fought one of those before you noticed them stopping spawning? Not sure if the other expos do anything to the ramp, apart from TH which increases it, due to the nature of a tougher spawn after TH.

It's been brought up a fair bit, but the Lavish Locker split is weighted terribly when there are a lot of Lockers and not many Pirates.

I'd disagree with VOs for Lockers too.
I'd also suggest going to the extreme of counting disengaged battles as rated as long as the ship is configured to Pillage, otherwise you only fix half the problem.

The Battle Navigation scoring needs to be reworked anyway.

I'd also say add chests to Flotillia and BK Blockades, since there's been changes to try and stop hyper ranking in other puzzles, making all treasure haul puzzles a fair playing field would be good for that. Alternatively, buff the score gained for hauling chests.

The Treasure hauls lasting a while is a result of the increased pay, it seems they just increased the PoE gained form them without increasing the PoE per click. I'd suggest a middle ground. The same could be done for foraging, since it suffers the same problem, although not nearly as badly.

Nice post!
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[Jun 8, 2017 10:40:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Radway



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Re: Pillaging Concerns and Suggestions. Reply to this Post
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Alternatively, buff the score gained for hauling chests.


Agreed, this needs to be done!
[Jun 8, 2017 11:13:22 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gunnerfreak

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Re: Pillaging Concerns and Suggestions. Reply to this Post
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Krieger6 wrote: 

- Ship's starting position in a sea battle being very unfavorable. (I get this almost every other battle)

The screenshot is from one of the better starting positions, I'll update a worse screenshot the next time I pillage.


Here's one of the worst starting positions as an example:

Like, seriously, that barnacle's mental! ¬_¬
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[Jun 8, 2017 1:15:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

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Oh please, that's no so bad, 1 bump and you're fine. Be thankful there isn't a downward wind on the side of the rocks you're in, that would result in 3 bumps (still not that big of a deal though)
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wrs1864b

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Oh please, that's no so bad, 1 bump and you're fine.

Yeah, not so bad. Here is the worst one I remembered to get a screen shot of (not the worst I had). Mind you, I was soloing a trade run with IIRC 300k PoE worth of goods, the brigand was right above the "pirates" title and to escape with my goods, I wanted to go west. Since I was soloing, I need to act very quickly to get on sails to generate moves while hoping my bots could keep up with damage. Not a lot of time to think.

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[Jun 9, 2017 10:39:46 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jlh0605

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Regarding Treasure Haul expeditions:
I personally enjoy the fact that TH expos don't include chests (that is the main reason I earned #1 TH...). However, I would be willing to support adding chests to flotillas, depending on what they contained.

I also agree that long TH's can be tedious. Especially when you do a 40K TH expedition solo.

Here are some things I have learned about how Treasure Haul expeditions currently work. These are from my personal observations, and may or may not be completely correct.
1) Treasure Haul expedition maps spawn with a specific, fixed amount of PoE, namely, 5K, 10K, 20K, or 40K PoE. This is a firmly fixed amount; it doesn't change based on either the number or the skill of the pirates aboard. I don't know exactly when this amount is determined, but it is determined before the hauling actually begins.
2) Each piece that is cleared from the Treasure Haul board brings 1 PoE to the expedition booty. When the expedition is finished, the expedition booty is split between the pirates and the ship (as per normal booty distribution).
3) In these expeditions, once the final piece is cleared (the 5,000th, 10,000th, etc.), existing board combos are allowed to finish clearing. This allows the total booty to be slightly above the target amount, especially if multiple people clear large chains at the same time.
4) My understanding is that #2 and #3 above also apply to Treasure Haul expeditions won from brigands/barbarians, and that instead of fixed PoE amounts as in #1, the PoE amounts are determined at the moment the expedition is won, based on various factors at that time (size of ship, number of pirates, booty ramp, etc.).

Here's my proposal to make TH expeditions more ... livable:
1) Pick some time that TH expeditions should last. I would suggest somewhere between 3 and 5 minutes. This time could either be fixed, or could be a random variable within a (somewhat narrow) range.
2) Before the expedition actually begins, compute exactly how much PoE this expedition should give. I know this is already done for expedition maps, and it may already be done for expeditions won from battles.
3) Scale up (or possibly, scale down) the ratio of PoE earned per piece cleared. Scale this so that it should take the pirates on board roughly the target time to clear the target amount of PoE. This scaling should take into consideration the number of pirates aboard, and, optionally, their treasure haul rankings.

This proposal can be manipulated slightly, namely, by bringing additional pirates aboard just after an expedition starts. However, this would not change the total PoE given, rather, it would simply make the expedition end sooner. This "exploit" is also present in existing Treasure Haul expeditions.

I don't know how this proposal would work in Atlantis, Haunted Seas, or in flotillas. I haven't done enough treasure hauling in those places to know how long they feel, or if the reward is worth the risk.
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[Jun 18, 2017 2:43:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link]  Go to top 
Kriegers6



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- Spawning ships that do not shoot at you the entire battle and do not carry any greedies. - On longer Pillages, I've noticed after about 8 wins in a row on Yellow Routes (Osprey or Pleaides route) ships stop shooting and greedies completely disappear for however many battles i do for the rest of the pillage. Edit: (No Prior losses on the pillage in question)


I was able to replicate this bug today. Ran a baghlah Pillage from Iocane to Paihia today, The first 4 battles did not produce a single Greedy. There was a green named pirate on board. We had 12-15 Pirates aboard for the battles and spawned 2 War Brigs and 2 MGs. The ship was set to "Very Hard Brigands" and we had someone on the duty navigation puzzle. Here are screenshots of the booty and ship logs. There was no loss at all. We loaded right after reboot.



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Dr. Kriegers of Emerald
Pillage Battle Navigation Enthusiast!
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Kriegers6 at Jun 19, 2017 5:30:44 AM]
[Jun 19, 2017 5:26:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LJAmethyst

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I'd add another bug, re-charting at islands resets peoples puzzle boards, it also currently resets the greedy ramp, I guess it counts as porting?


No, you have it wrong.

Running to the end of a charted course is what resets puzzle boards and ends the session. I'm a bit surprised that it resets a ramp, but OK.

Recharting does not end puzzle sessions. *Porting* does not reset puzzle sessions.

For an in-depth discussion of what does and does not reset puzzle sessions, see this thread.
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zanreth

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I just want to add my voice to the frustration over TH/Foraging expeditions on high quality pillages. They become mind-numbing puzzles that last for 15+ minutes almost every single pillage I go on/lead. It's just too much.
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[Jun 21, 2017 12:39:10 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kriegers6



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I have noticed a more even division of greedy lockers based on how many battles were done (Baghlahs) and the only people getting anything better than a trinket are those that stayed on the pillage the longest. If this indeed was fixed and not just a continuous coincidence on my part, Thank you for listening, developers.

Anyone else still experiencing issues with the greedy booty division?

P.S Ships sailing on courses that do not exist/blank spaces on the map are still occurring at a alarming rate and expos now require mental preparation (and a couple of beers) to complete. I know they are hard at work with getting Dark Seas up and running but please put these issues on a sticky note somewhere for later in the future.
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Dr. Kriegers of Emerald
Pillage Battle Navigation Enthusiast!
[Jun 29, 2017 3:05:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Radway



Joined: May 12, 2013
Posts: 35
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Re: Pillaging Concerns and Suggestions. Reply to this Post
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Welcome to Puzzle Pirates: Dark Seas!

https://ibb.co/e5Mqua
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Radway at Jul 3, 2017 4:44:11 PM]
[Jul 3, 2017 4:43:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shinito

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Joined: Jan 3, 2006
Posts: 585
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Re: Pillaging Concerns and Suggestions. Reply to this Post
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The real dark seas begins now.
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Thorkill on Malachite 2.0 Obsidian
[Jul 3, 2017 4:45:29 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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