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wippit

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How do OMs know you're botting? Reply to this Post
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Disclaimer: no, I don't bot. My stats should bear that up.

But I see posts of people who have been banned for botting who claim they were not. So, out of curiosity, how do OMs determine that someone is botting, short of there being some sort of detection software in the client?
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by wippit at Nov 26, 2016 6:40:10 AM]
[Nov 26, 2016 6:39:29 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Re: How do OMs know you're botting? Reply to this Post
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Bot detection can take a number of forms, and i doubt GH will give any hints as to what they use. But basically it can be either client or server side, looking for things that don't add up.

Or they can just play to human foolishness.
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[Nov 26, 2016 8:39:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wippit

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Re: How do OMs know you're botting? Reply to this Post
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Or they can just play to human foolishness.


Sneaky.
[Nov 26, 2016 8:51:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gunnerfreak

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Re: How do OMs know you're botting? Reply to this Post
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AFAIK, it's detected through a type of detection software. I had a flagmate get banned because of a glitch in said software because he had been disconnecting repeatedly. >.>
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[Nov 28, 2016 4:53:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
davide1992

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Re: How do OMs know you're botting? Reply to this Post
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I live in a dorm and most of my roommates are using our connection to download... the most common files on the internet. So I frequently disconnect. This happened yesterday: I was rumbling during a pillage and I was disconnected. An error message appeared saying something like "normally there is a communication between the client and the server each 5 seconds; if this time is longer, this could be a sign of cheating".
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Boatmaker on the Meridian Ocean
[Nov 29, 2016 12:46:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sagacious

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Re: How do OMs know you're botting? Reply to this Post
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People used to intentionally manipulate their internet connection to affect SF and Rumble - something like if you delayed your connection by so many seconds then it used to prevent strikes against you from hitting you as soon as they should. But it got fixed looooong ago.
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[Nov 29, 2016 2:03:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Captainjey



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Re: How do OMs know you're botting? Reply to this Post
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How do they know!?!?!?! I was banned for botting although I have never botted. I even went through the whole unbanning process with them deciding not to unban me! Its like my Girl Friends nightmare, being put in a psych ward and never being able to prove that you're sane! How do I prove that I didn't do something that I didn't do?!?!? I don't know how there even would be evidence of me botting since I didn't. My stats would also support the theory that i'm not bloody botting. I understand in the TOS they can ban me just for the sake of banning me but why not do that then? They banned me for botting when I bloody hate botters. I wouldn't have come here but its been 2-3 weeks since I've been able to play and I've done nothing wrong. This is making me scared that some of the similar posts on reddit might be correct :( If anyone has any ideas please let me know

Captainjey
[Mar 1, 2017 2:19:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Captainjey



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Re: How do OMs know you're botting? Reply to this Post
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I also just read that some people on Reddit who actually botted got let back in? What is this?!?!? A circus? People who actually break the rules but admit to it will be let back in, but people who can't admit to botting because they didn't are not allowed back in? The more I learn about this messed up system the more mad I get.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Captainjey at Mar 1, 2017 2:25:29 AM]
[Mar 1, 2017 2:25:07 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Thunderbird

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Re: How do OMs know you're botting? Reply to this Post
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I live in a dorm and most of my roommates are using our connection to download... the most common files on the internet. So I frequently disconnect. This happened yesterday: I was rumbling during a pillage and I was disconnected. An error message appeared saying something like "normally there is a communication between the client and the server each 5 seconds; if this time is longer, this could be a sign of cheating".

This particular behavior of being booted from a brawl due to lag has been in the game for at least as long as I've been playing (which is probably far longer than any bot detection has been present). Since it's something that could legitimately happen to players, I have doubts that the occasional occurrence of this will cause the game to think you're cheating.
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[Mar 3, 2017 5:31:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Vepar7

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Re: How do OMs know you're botting? Reply to this Post
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They don't know if you are botting or not, their system just flags you based on a certain clicking/pathing pattern which hopefully most of the botters share - and if you get a few flags in a short time frame you automatically get banned.

Its also the reason why they ask you about which bots you've used when you send an appeal as they don't know which puzzle exactly got you banned. And if you shouldn't have botted at all ("false positive") chances are very high they'll assume you are lying if you claim to have not been botting ( because as stated, they have no other information than a "Yes" checkbox on Botting).

That being said the detection system is a joke and wrongfully bans people like him.
The Oceanmasters also don't seem to use common sense to manually ban botters (check the top list pirates) that all share the same puzzle pattern and its been like that for years.

Chances are that you will get banned for botting someday - regardless of having botted or not.
 
...normally there is a communication between the client and the server each 5 seconds; if this time is longer, this could be a sign of cheating...


People used to lagswitch in Swordfighting.

The server functions solely as a "middleman/transmitter" for information.
You only send updates about the stríkes you've sent and your current board state and receive the same information from your opponent.
However, back in the day you simply could disconnect to "play offline" and then reconnect to catch up with all the information - which was both used for surviving longer (not receiving packages / "strikes" from your opponent) and building up a big combo (f.e opener) and sending it once reconnected. Think of an 100% insta opener or infinity survivability.
Should you be familiar with SFing you'd notice that its incredibly broken, can be used infinitely during a single game and that stalled hits "overhit", e.g the cheater receives incoming strikes turn by turn thus greatly diminishing their damage (overlapping edge hits or block hits).

Furthermore your opponent wasn't able to react to anything since the usual playstyle prediction resolves around breaker sequences (e.g in a stick vs stick fight a red breaker allows you to judge their hit/clear), board state (e.g hes at the top so his board must be messed up) and the center column (e.g he can't clear his center thus being greatly impaired) - so the strikes were both unpredictable and overwhelmingly huge (given the impression that you were constantly sending strikes without an answer).
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[Mar 3, 2017 6:20:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Captainjey



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Re: How do OMs know you're botting? Reply to this Post
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I live in a dorm and most of my roommates are using our connection to download... the most common files on the internet. So I frequently disconnect. This happened yesterday: I was rumbling during a pillage and I was disconnected. An error message appeared saying something like "normally there is a communication between the client and the server each 5 seconds; if this time is longer, this could be a sign of cheating".

This particular behavior of being booted from a brawl due to lag has been in the game for at least as long as I've been playing (which is probably far longer than any bot detection has been present). Since it's something that could legitimately happen to players, I have doubts that the occasional occurrence of this will cause the game to think you're cheating.


If I were to walk around my house with my laptop and switch between Wifis (under same name) in the house would it also maybe cause a misconception?
[Mar 3, 2017 6:22:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
henryrules10

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Re: How do OMs know you're botting? Reply to this Post
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Bot detection can take a number of forms, and i doubt GH will give any hints as to what they use. But basically it can be either client or server side, looking for things that don't add up.

Or they can just play to human foolishness.


You don't say.
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[Mar 7, 2017 10:29:15 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Altich

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Re: How do OMs know you're botting? Reply to this Post
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Plain logic says that the simplest method to detect bots is to calculate behaviors that are too precise to be made by humans (e.g. making a move every EXACTLY 0.5 seconds etc.) This, however is just a primitive method of detection. Many bot programs have adjusted, and so have the detection methods, which I don't know.

It wouldn't be wise if the developers released their ways to detect bots, since this would allow bot programs to adjust even further.

Most bot programs (not just for Puzzle Pirates) promise that it is impossible to be detected. Because of this, people that are caught, think that it's not their fault and cry all the time at the forums and plague the staff with pleads and emails, at first trying to seem like a victim and finally swearing, cursing the developers, the players and the world for something that it is THEIR fault. Because of this, if you are within the 0.001% of the people that was actually unfairly banned, there is very little hope for anyone to take you seriously.

I know these because I have done my basic search about bot programs. But I promise, I didn't ever use one! It would be ironic if I am banned and then start pleading in the forums like I mentioned before xD. If that happens, please believe that I am the innocent 0.001% and not like the others!!!
[Mar 8, 2017 2:04:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
EmpressTamar

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Re: How do OMs know you're botting? Reply to this Post
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I know these because I have done my basic search about bot programs. But I promise, I didn't ever use one! It would be ironic if I am banned and then start pleading in the forums like I mentioned before xD. If that happens, please believe that I am the innocent 0.001% and not like the others!!!
That's exactly what a botter would say.
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[Mar 8, 2017 6:54:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Chingchongpi



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Re: How do OMs know you're botting? Reply to this Post
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Does this mean the pirates on the top list of the puzzles for example Bilging Rigging are legitimate?

Because I have reported a few but they did not get banned at all.
[Mar 31, 2017 3:06:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jcmorgan6

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Re: How do OMs know you're botting? Reply to this Post
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Does this mean the pirates on the top list of the puzzles for example Bilging Rigging are legitimate?

Because I have reported a few but they did not get banned at all.


No, the vast majority of them are botters, especially the rigging list, see here.

It's true reporting them seems to do nothing, but best to do it anyway.
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[Mar 31, 2017 4:03:29 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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