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Ghostbeardz1

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We're still in early stages of looking into our options. This is something we can consider. I'd (personally) be curious what others think about it.

...

In terms of gameplay it depends on what exactly you're asking about. If you have specific suggestions about gameplay, we are actively reviewing suggestions in our Game Design forum.


Yarr harr! I suppose i was so excited to see the rollout of the new Greedy Brigand content, that i didn't realize ye all might also be in the stages of weighing the pros & cons of future options down the road.

Yarr there be some days, while sipping over a mug o' grog while zzzing in me crows nest, where i like to think about whether there might be some little changes out there which could add enjoyment to the good pirates of our ocean without taking up too much
programming effort from our good maties over in Grey Havens. Yarr most o' these days, a seagull lands o' me mug during the middle of me idea and i lose my whole train of thought. But there were one idea which keep coming back.

We have a wealth of existing, but largely unused, collectible player content that sleeps deep within our furniture stores these days. Quite a lot of the furni's listed o' the shoppe catalogs are stuff that pirates just don't see much around the ocean these days. Yarr quite a few of these cute little furni's could add quite a bit of good cheer to a greenie pirates first shack. Just 1 or 2 potted wildflowers of the right color can really brighten a room. Yarrr, & this is before even mentioning the limitless magic of Guest Books, Signs, & Swordfight Dummies. Yarrr, my memories of playing around in a cottage with friends, & building swordfight dummies of eachother was one o' the most truly unforgettable memories of this game.

But, alas, as quite a lot of ye readers probably know quite well, when we come upon one of those moments where we choosing between buying a extra bravery badge, or a fresh 8 day Kraken Chart, or grabbing a brand new falchion, or taking a spin with a couple more Black Boxes, or the choice of saving those dubs up to help in our big race for pandas or fams, with all of those choices out there for how to use our dubs or cade pay, there be a quite a lot of days where all the reliable ole' furnitures our pirates could be making never get made, & where the be a whole bunch of fun Guest Books, & Swordfight Dummies & Wildflowers which never get brought into the world to enrich our player spaces & communities.

So for me, all of these thoughts 'bout the enjoyment many pirates get from customizing our player spaces, keeps bringing me back to this idea that trying out a 1-dub pricing structure for some of our non-luxury store-bought furnitures could be worth a shot. Of course there will always be plenty of really awesome luxury furnitures for us pirates to chase, which will always carry a higher price point. Yarr even if a ole' Ghost like me were to find the perfect 1 doubloon Wildflowers for my Ghost Porch, yarrr I would still surely have to keep seeking out for friendly Booch Box Merchants to supply me with all o' the Giant Mushrooms I would need for me backyard. Yarrrr there be a whole bunch of pretty special luxury furnitures out there that pirates like us are always going to chase. Yarr harrr, & of course none of me silly furniture ideas would change our courageous quests for monkeys or octopuses or fluffy panda friends. But perhaps it could make our oceans a little bit brighter having some cheap affordable friendly furniture along the way for helping decorate our first little shacks & cottages, as we begin our puzzle of figuring which quest out there o' the horizon we want to sail our sloop towards.
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Ghostbeards of Emerald
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[Sep 28, 2016 12:37:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Eyes

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I would like to be able to play players in parlour games across all oceans.
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[Sep 28, 2016 1:35:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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We're still in early stages of looking into our options. This is something we can consider. I'd (personally) be curious what others think about it.

As others have said, a complete wipe and restart will cause them to lose some cherished memories or long-term goals. At the same time, I wouldn't want to see the elite of the ocean stand in the way of the game as a whole.

So what I would say is... if you were to wipe the ocean (and I'll come back to disclaimers here in a bit), please allow players the opportunity to, firstly, bring along "memory" items (inscribed trinkets, portraits) to the new ocean, and secondly, allow players to "cash out" their possessions and use their accumulated wealth to pick up some goodies on the new ocean that would be unavailable in the normal course of events.

Of course, I'm not asking for a direct 1-to-1 conversion here. The point of an ocean wipe would be to start over. But here are some ideas of what I'm talking about:
  • Completed sets of trinkets can be traded in for something (an uber-trinket or a piece of furniture) that will be carried to the new ocean.
  • Owning an inn will give you a statue on a ringer island on the new ocean.
  • Several very large islands get opened as ringer islands; current shopkeepers can cash in their shoppes and possibly a bit of PoE to get a shop on a ringer island. Ringer islands will have low taxes permanently.
  • In addition to inn owners getting statues on ringer islands, a certain number of other statues can be auctioned off or sold at a high fixed price.
  • Players can bring along a small amount of PoE. Additionally, they can purchase a starting allotment of clothing, weapons, other dustables, as well as a house and basic furniture at near-even cost.
  • They can spend anything else left of their fortune buying some very high-end, not to be repeated down the road, items, such as special color familiars, gaudy-class LE ships, furniture, and whatnot. The price ranges should be from silly-level high for black monkeys, to quite expensive for LE ships and not-to-be repeated furniture, to normal-level prices for regular household furniture.
  • Players can bring along a small amount of PoE. Additionally, they can purchase a starting allotment of clothing, weapons, other dustables, as well as basic furniture at near-even cost.
  • Players should be able to claim their existing names up to six months into the new ocean. Being able to claim ship names during that time would be nice, as well.


Now, about the disclaimers I mentioned: obviously, the list above can be tweaked as needed for ease of coding. But that list should be enough to give you a good idea of what I'm talking about. I do not, however, think this is a good idea if it will take half a year or more to implement. The game got hurt badly by the long stretch of no game improvements we had during the ocean merger, we don't need to go through it again.

The other caveat about an ocean wipe is, if you do this, would you please look at how the game plays as a whole and how you would have done it differently if you had known then what you know now, and change anything that will not be too difficult to do. For instance, it was suggested several times to have the occasional upkeep for shoppes, so that inactive owners wouldn't be clogging up valuable island space. If you think this is a good idea, near or during an ocean wipe is the best time to do it. Or fix any easy-to-fix issues with how the database is structured; I recall Forculus saying that each animal type's colors were different from the others, making it difficult to put animal colors in the mouseover tooltip. If that's something that could be easily fixed when making the new database (unlikely, I'm sure, but who knows, it might be simple), this is also a good time to do it. And who knows, maybe cotton instead of hemp for clothing? I mean, I thought wool clothing was scratchy before starting this game, and, you want me to wear stuff they use to make rope instead?

 
So for me, all of these thoughts 'bout the enjoyment many pirates get from customizing our player spaces, keeps bringing me back to this idea that trying out a 1-dub pricing structure for some of our non-luxury store-bought furnitures could be worth a shot. Of course there will always be plenty of really awesome luxury furnitures for us pirates to chase, which will always carry a higher price point. Yarr even if a ole' Ghost like me were to find the perfect 1 doubloon Wildflowers for my Ghost Porch, yarrr I would still surely have to keep seeking out for friendly Booch Box Merchants to supply me with all o' the Giant Mushrooms I would need for me backyard.

One thing I have said before, and since it's very applicable, I'll say it again: I believe the entire cost structure of the game, both subscription and doubloons, should be reviewed, especially the usage requirements or doubloon fees for low-end furniture, weapons, and clothing that new players are likely to want to buy. The nickle-and-dime routine on should wait until players have decided if they like the game and want to stay or not; otherwise, that first doubloon delivery fee for a short sword is likely to drive them away. I have no issues with the current prices for ships and luxury items, but low-end stuff should be dub/sub-free.

(And I also want a bunch of minor changes, like putting doubloon fees for paint on the brushes, not the paint (brushes lasting based on units of paint painted, not a number of days); it would make apothecary running easier, and other small gameplay tweaks like that, in addition to an overarching look at costs in general.)
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
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[Edit 5 times, last edit by xelto at Sep 28, 2016 3:41:09 PM]
[Sep 28, 2016 2:36:41 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Tayes

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I want to add onto and clarify to my previous post. Not sure if this is attainable but by my "new ocean" post, I was thinking that the other oceans remain open. I'm the first to say, I have my favourite familiars, renamed ships, a full fleet and PoE on my account but I would rather play on an ocean with nothing, that has a chance of thriving, than to sit with all my accumulated crap, on an ocean that is slowly dwindling. That way the people who are more concerned about their possessions, have the option of just living on Emerald/Meridian/Cerulean.

I feel like the people that would move to a new ocean would be people who want to expand the game... people who still have the fire to build a crew, a flag, win blockades and develop new players for the game to reach a higher population. Move the green player spawn to the new ocean and let people who want to live on dwindling oceans with their limited edition ships and familiars stay there.

Anyways - great discussion - nice to see people's thoughts

PS: I like the graphics too! It's character, just brought it up because I know some people complain about it

PPS: No offense to people who like LE sloops and stuff

Peace

EDIT: I think things to be moved over should be extremely limited. If people start bringing over familiars, that would instantly crash the market. I think every single person should start with zero poe and zero doubs (or whatever would replace doubs as the new doub currency). Also, with all the alts, people would cheat if you could say (1 ship and 1 fam per person).... someone who have 1000 alts brining over 1000 ships. Start as fresh and as even as possible.


If we were to wipe the other oceans, I understand moving a few trinkets over, and maybe 1 sloop per person... things of low value to give minimal advantages but just for sentimental value.


I understand the idea that if you had an inn you could get a statue or a rock or something stupid named after you. No shoppes on OM islands though. I think it should be only recognition items and nothing of value or possible future value that could be traded or used for an advantage.
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-Tayes

Blaming Brenda
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by Tayes at Sep 28, 2016 6:56:03 PM]
[Sep 28, 2016 6:30:58 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Crazymg

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I feel like the people that would move to a new ocean would be people who want to expand the game... people who still have the fire to build a crew, a flag, win blockades and develop new players for the game to reach a higher population. Move the green player spawn to the new ocean and let people who want to live on dwindling oceans with their limited edition ships and familiars stay there.

Just because I sit on a bunch of valuable items that have sentimental value to me doesn't mean I don't want the game to expand. Taking away greenie spawns would probably lead to our deaths. I still kh, ci, hs, cit run (and now greedies are out pillage for new collectables) every chance I get, I still want and active and thriving ocean to play on where I can enjoy the efforts of my hard work from over the years. I know you said no offense but you're dividing us when there has to be a better solution.
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[Sep 28, 2016 7:57:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Tayes

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I feel like the people that would move to a new ocean would be people who want to expand the game... people who still have the fire to build a crew, a flag, win blockades and develop new players for the game to reach a higher population. Move the green player spawn to the new ocean and let people who want to live on dwindling oceans with their limited edition ships and familiars stay there.

Just because I sit on a bunch of valuable items that have sentimental value to me doesn't mean I don't want the game to expand. Taking away greenie spawns would probably lead to our deaths. I still kh, ci, hs, cit run (and now greedies are out pillage for new collectables) every chance I get, I still want and active and thriving ocean to play on where I can enjoy the efforts of my hard work from over the years. I know you said no offense but you're dividing us when there has to be a better solution.


I completely respect your point of view and do apologize because I know i'm generalizing and don't mean to paint everyone with the same brush. I know there are active people who also care about their stuff (I'm one of them, but I would sacrifice all my ships, fams, etc. for a better game). I just don't see a fix for the current ocean that would encourage new players to keep playing when they start at such a disadvantage, with so much poe floating around the game.
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-Tayes

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[Sep 28, 2016 8:46:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Raalala

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Tayes, the game is not broken, you can't tarnish us all with the same brush because we like our stuff, the same as just because you are willing doesn't mean we all are. It will never be equal between older gen and new pirates, we have the experience. We know what we are doing. So you start us all fresh, the guys that know the game and mechanics are still going to walk all over the new guys, the issue is not us having shiney stuff. You really need to understand that.

Picture this, you're a new player, you happen to start playing on Emerald during the weekend, this particular weekend there are MULTI drop cades. They are more than likely paywars, it's at 9k a seg. The problem is not making poe. The problem is knowing how to and where to go. Why do you think so many people come in the inn and sit and beg?

The problem is the information provided to the new players, they're thrown in the deep end, not everyone survives that. The game is not the same as it was when we all started out, the other games to choose from are also far different to the likes of Runescape (Shoutout to those that even still play that)

I know I'm all for being a 'mean' pirate standing in the inn, but for anyone who genuinely has questions or needs help, I will help them, it's another reason I stand around with a pretty pink name. I also can vouch for the fact that when I do start a new game, I usually look up to the people with shiney things. (They obviously know what they are doing and I could usually learn a few things from them.)

You can't take the greenie spawns away from the old oceans, that would be extremely selfish. As Princessmg said, why are you trying to divide us? Surely there are better ways to make it work, get the older generation of pirates more involved with the new generation. Figure out a system, help rather than hinder. We all want more players, new players, that's without a shadow of a doubt, we just need to find a way to make sure they stick around when they turn up on the docks, confused as heck and not sure what to do.

(Do you have any idea of the amount of people who don't know how to use the forums for one? There is a whole bunch of information on our forums which is for helping players get better at the game if they so wish to, but, it sits there unread by a lot of people, new and old)

This is all of course besides the point, as it may or may not happen.
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~ Bambeh

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[Sep 29, 2016 9:20:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Eyes

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I would also like to see an overhaul of the badge and furniture pricing if you have no intentions on controlling the price of doubloons. Try making a new pirate and playing a puzzle you're not well practiced in on a voyage to see what it's like being new. It's not fun or rewarding at all. Many people on the green oceans will not take a new player to learn on a decent money making voyage and the ones they can apply for have very bad payouts. As a new player there is not really any reason to spend money on the game when you cannot get a taste for the things that make the game so fun.
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[Sep 29, 2016 11:26:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jlh0605

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Many people on the green oceans will not take a new player to learn on a decent money making voyage and the ones they can apply for have very bad payouts.
Greedy Brigands could change both of those things. Pillage payouts are significantly higher (3-4x original value), and there is a real incentive to job greenies on any pillage (greedies show up much more often).
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~Jamesh on Emerald
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Ghostbeardz1

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Well said, Jamesh.

The economic effects for jobbers from the new payouts could really make a huge difference & create a lot of positive effects within the day-to-day pirate economy, which could be a pretty good reason to keep up hope.
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Ghostbeards of Emerald
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Tayes

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Reply to Bambeh's post:

I truly respect your opinion and I know I have a fairly radical look on starting totally fresh, and you are right - there are tons of options that could be looked at no matter which route is taken. Obviously you deeply care about the game and I find it quite commendable. You are definitely right, that my ideas have flaws, just like all the plans are.

I just like to be devil's advocate and make people look at the big picture and to take everything into account, whether its an option that they would consider or not. Just a few point to counter, for the sake of productive banter.

- You mentioned that even if we start fresh, old players will walk over new players. I agree. However, when you at our elites, an older player sitting on 100 Million, it seems insurmountable for a younger player to think, "could I ever make that". So not only do they have to get to the level of the other pirate, but they will have to get to that level, then above to catch up... I know that's a bad example but I hope it kind of gets my point across.

- Get rid of too many open islands, trophy shoppes, paved islands, etc. As a new player, I remember exploring Viridian and Sage from pillages, to dock hopping, to wandering islands. It's no fun for a green player to be able to walk five steps then run into a building with no way around it. Also the vastness of really two oceans in our merged oceans is challenging. With the pirates saturated all across the ocean, it becomes difficult to run a shoppe/stall/trade unless you're going to Aim or Addy or Lima. It would be neat to see a new ocean expand with a growing base. Have your pirates dense on OM island and slowly open islands with the growth of the ocean. Also trophy shoppes.... speaks for itself...

- My favourite thing about a fresh start, is that there is no poe to sell. I think Poe selling is really hurt the game. People get better value, but it keep money away from the people running the game, who can reinvest it into making the game better, advertising, paying staff, etc. A new ocean with a new currency would have people using real life money again and supporting the game better. There are some really honourable pirates who still support the game, but there are also a lot of people taking advantage of the better value of buying poe.

- You could learn from the mistakes of old oceans. IE: Do you really need 200K poker? Can payouts be better aligned to have people pillaging more or more HS or whatever floats your boat.

I'm happy for any action taken to improve the game. I think I've repeated myself enough so I won't be posting any more unless I think of something new.

T
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-Tayes

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Seaspirit8

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We're still in early stages of looking into our options. This is something we can consider. I'd (personally) be curious what others think about it.


I think anything that involves starting from scratch and losing any possessions will result in mutiny en masse.

I still think the best move for the future of the game would be a single expanding ocean for all pirates. I know it's been mentioned a few times and gets shot down in flames for the most part due to the complexities involved. But it could be seriously worth investigating as a possible option for the future.

It's worth taking note of how some of the other older games on the net have survived and evolved over the years and how they function today to attract new players while holding on to their core player base.

Everquest 2 for example is one of the oldest game franchises on the internet. The original was launched in 1999 and is still going strong. And Everquest 2 was launched in 2004 and still attracts a huge following with regular updates and release packages.

The game economy works much in the same way as Puzzle Pirates, based on trading commodities, player built, purchased or won items via the market. The game also operates a side by side free, subscription, badge and "dub" option for all players on the same "ocean". Their version of a "dub" is worth one month of paid subscription. And can be either purchased with rl money or with a lot of in game money through the player controlled market.

All players are rewarded for playing daily with tokens. (2 tokens a day i believe) these tokens can then be traded in for various items paid Subscribers can trade them in for bags of "poe"!

The free to play option is slightly more lenient than on PP the majority of in game features are open to all players. But to have the best swords or wear the best clothes or to sell at the market requires either subscription or a "badge" for that purpose.

Aside from the regular free updates the game also offers special purchasable expansion content from time to time.

So if we take all of that into account and try to envision it in puzzle pirates how would it look?

1) One ocean for all players. Offering Free to play, Subscription, Dub and Badge options.

2) All players would receive daily in game reward tokens of sorts that they could save to trade in for things.

3) Remove free player restrictions on some of the more core functions of the game (Sailing a small vessel)

4) Restrict free players from high end content ( swords, fancy clothes, sailing anything bigger than a sloop)

5) Over time, offer purchasable themed packages for expanding ocean content. If players purchase the package a new mysterious island or archipelago will appear on their world map for them to fight over. Along with a free gift based on the theme. If you don't buy the package from the Grey Havens shop, you don't get the islands on your map or access to them.

These yearly? releases would possibly also be a great opportunity to advertise the game and bring in some old and new pirates.

Apologies if none of this is viable for Puzzle Pirates, but just thought i would throw some ideas out there that have worked very well for other old games that have faced the same sort of problems over the years.
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Seaspirit on Cerulean
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majestrate

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Tayes wrote: 
I've always thought the best way out of this mess is a new ocean.... If we had a blank slate, everyone starts off fresh, older players have the advantage, knowing the game play, but younger players would have a shot.

Cronus wrote: 
We're still in early stages of looking into our options. This is something we can consider. I'd (personally) be curious what others think about it.

I'm not a fan of being forced to rebuild everything I've done thus far. I honestly don't know if I'd bother playing anymore if I had to go through all of that grind again. It's one thing to do it as an alt to try and achieve things that you might not be able to do on your main, but it's a completely different thing to be forced to do it with no other option available.

If two oceans can be supported, then why not have one be the "retirement home" and the other be the one that gets wiped periodically? I think every 1.5 years or so would be about right. Keep the updates between wipes all about the aesthetics (colors/clothes/ship designs) and then at the wipe, release the "big" updates, new gameplay/major changes to gameplay/etc (that kind of falls in-line with Seaspirit8's yearly update notion)... Obviously an enormous hurdle is having to design a new ocean every 18 months. My guess though, is that you could keep most of the islands the same, just change what archipelago they're in (also the size and maybe quantity of archipelagoes), and then remove 2 or 3 islands and add in 2 or 3 new ones (those 2 or 3 could be player designed?).

In the end, GH should do what they feel they need to do in order to make the game a success. And if that means parting ways with older players, then so be it.

As to what I'd like to see. I'd really prefer that GH go back to having a single ocean. Kill off the cross-ocean crap that happens (trading jobbers to support blockades). Also, a forum upgrade, so that we can search the forums again without having to use an external search engine :)
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by majestrate at Oct 1, 2016 8:42:55 AM]
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Markus1

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Would a ocean wipe result in a change in the "Balance of Power" between the island "haves" and the island "have-nots"? A few of the more dormant/dead island-owning flags, would disappear, but the major blockading flags would just reform and dominate the ocean again, so the answer is no.

Would an ocean wipe prevent top-tier players from winning all the familiar competitions? Again the answer is no. Top-tier players will quickly re-amass everything they had before.

So what would an ocean wipe do? While the top 5% (possibly even 1%) of the ocean would be largely unaffected, it just takes away everyone's "stuff". For top-level players, they can re-earn many things quickly (if they so desire - some won't), for lower-level players, who may try for years to win a familiar, or something else which might seem inconsequential to the more upper-echelon players -- it'll sting like hell, and many (if not all), will just give up and quit).

I can't endorse something that would only marginally (at best) help the top 5% of the playerbase, while upsetting/hurting the bottom 95%.
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Zingman

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[Oct 1, 2016 4:53:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
mari_

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My question would be, would one ocean be a hybrid system of both sub and dub? Also it would need to be "non-transferable" aka dubs from the other oceans can't be used there. There would need to be a balance of power from the off for it to even work.

Could it be considered to have some kind of "starter" kit, say if someone has a sub purchased they start with a sloop and 10k. Someone with 42 dubs on one of the green oceans gets the same package a sloop 10k and their necessary officer badge.

This is just me writing my initial musings about it down, I am sure there are many flaws in what I suggested in the previous paragraph - just trying to think of a way a new ocean can work for everyone. I already get it wouldn't be easy to introduce a hybrid system - but other MMO's do have that option.

Another option on the new ocean would be to adopt a little what Eve online does and all new starters (greenies to us) gets put into a trainer crew specifically for them to learn and enjoy the ropes. There are people across all oceans I am pretty sure would help and have the patience to do this.
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[Oct 2, 2016 5:30:56 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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This is just me writing my initial musings about it down, I am sure there are many flaws in what I suggested in the previous paragraph - just trying to think of a way a new ocean can work for everyone. I already get it wouldn't be easy to introduce a hybrid system - but other MMO's do have that option.

The problem is in the doubloon delivery of items. You would have to remove that aspect of the game to get any hybrid system to work.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
[Oct 2, 2016 8:15:00 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
mari_

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This is just me writing my initial musings about it down, I am sure there are many flaws in what I suggested in the previous paragraph - just trying to think of a way a new ocean can work for everyone. I already get it wouldn't be easy to introduce a hybrid system - but other MMO's do have that option.

The problem is in the doubloon delivery of items. You would have to remove that aspect of the game to get any hybrid system to work.


Would this be such a bad thing?
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Calamarie - now also in Obsidian flavour!
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"Always remember... Rumours are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots."

The Shadow is in my very core ;)
[Oct 2, 2016 8:57:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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This is just me writing my initial musings about it down, I am sure there are many flaws in what I suggested in the previous paragraph - just trying to think of a way a new ocean can work for everyone. I already get it wouldn't be easy to introduce a hybrid system - but other MMO's do have that option.

The problem is in the doubloon delivery of items. You would have to remove that aspect of the game to get any hybrid system to work.

Would this be such a bad thing?

Well, you would have to figure out a way for GH to make up the lost revenue from sunk doubloons. I suspect that that's a reasonable chunk of the doubloons sunk in this game.

At least, you would probably need to do so. I would have to see a P&L to get a fuller picture of their finances to be positive. I have long lobbied for changes to delivery fees, especially for low-end items. But I suspect that ships delivery, especially, would need some replacement, were it to be removed.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by xelto at Oct 2, 2016 10:38:17 AM]
[Oct 2, 2016 10:28:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Tayes

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Some neat ideas from Mari with the sub/dub combo. I like the idea of starter package as well.

Maybe the dub delivery could stay in game even with subscriptions. Perhaps subscribers don't need to purchase badges and a certain percentage dub discount on deliveries?
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[Oct 2, 2016 1:22:51 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Dexla

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Has a 1-year "everything" badge ever been considered on a doubloon ocean?

I've heard many subscribers say, they wouldn't want to deal with badges.

What if one could purchase a year-long badge for the price of a year-long subscription, that grants them all the privileges that a subscription gives them on Cerulean? It would work solely on calendar days, not login days, just as their subscription does. Those who do not want/or need "everything" or they don't play that much, could still purchase their individual badges in game with doubloons, just as they are (some being based on login days).

As for delivery fees, (the other thing I hear most subscribers wouldn't put up with) I'm at a loss. I know GH has to make money and they do that by selling doubloons to people who want to buy stuff. I've wondered if a poe/dub exchange regulated by GH would help. Instead of it being player driven, what would happen if GH set up an in game exchange that didn't fluctuate. If you want 1 dub, you trade in 2000 poe . If you want 1500 poe, you trade in 1 dub (I know it's not equal, but their goal has to be on selling more doubloons, not necessarily making it easier on us.)

Down-sides?
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[Oct 2, 2016 2:39:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
patgangster

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Dexla:

@Doubloon system
I don't see how that would work. Would doubloons just be generated? No way GH is going to implement in-game doubloon generation on a large scale like that.
Also there'd be no more reason for a lot of people to buy doubloons = Doesn't work.

If they'd only sell doubloons players sold to them, people wouldn't sell them doubloons if the price wasn't right (and if they'd adjust the price to fit that... we're basically back at the exact system we have now) and I could see there being situations where there are no dubs available which would greatly annoy people

@Yearbadge: Would buy it. How much would it cost though?
On current costs (logging on daily) SO + labor + parlor + bravery is 288 doubloons a year, if we make it deluxe labor OR captain it'd be 408, or if we made it both 528.
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[Oct 2, 2016 4:02:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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As for delivery fees, (the other thing I hear most subscribers wouldn't put up with) I'm at a loss. I know GH has to make money and they do that by selling doubloons to people who want to buy stuff.

Delivery fees are the one thing that is going to forever keep the oceans separate, so long as the current payment/revenue structure is in place. The only way that this is going to change is if GH revises entirely how they make their money.

There are a few ways that they could do it, some of which I wouldn't mind, and some of which I would react to the same way a sub-ocean fanatic reacts to badges and delivery fees. And, of course, any change that great would be a significant risk to GH.

 
I've wondered if a poe/dub exchange regulated by GH would help. Instead of it being player driven, what would happen if GH set up an in game exchange that didn't fluctuate. If you want 1 dub, you trade in 2000 poe . If you want 1500 poe, you trade in 1 dub (I know it's not equal, but their goal has to be on selling more doubloons, not necessarily making it easier on us.)

You're only going to sell doubloons if people like the price they're getting. And a fixed price gives a certain incentive for purchasers to go outside the system, just like what happens in most countries that have a fixed $USD <--> Local Currency exchange.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by xelto at Oct 2, 2016 6:56:16 PM]
[Oct 2, 2016 5:59:45 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
G_Deleuze



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Here's a discussion thread about the price of doubloons:
https://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthread?thread=203777

My view is that the chief reason this game is failing is because the incentive structure of the game is all screwed up. What makes games fun and challenging is an incentive structure that is challenging, with a complex/very challenging end game (the blockade scene in YPP provides that), but an incentive structure that is not too challenging - it should not feel like menial labor - especially at the lower levels.

No one would play soccer if dribbling the ball was a feat that took years to be able to perform at an elementary level - even though people do spend years perfecting their soccer-play.

The highest peak of the player base occurred when doubloons were priced between 700 and 1000 PoE. Now, it takes two to three times as much PoE to buy the bare minimum to participate in more complex parts of the game.

It was not until I had bought all of my badges using PoE that I earned that I purchased doubloons, because I wanted to decide whether or not I liked the game first.

Puzzle Pirates has been pursing a short-term strategy that drives massive amounts of players away but may milk a profit - some more wealthy pirates, or pirates who have heard that the game is awesome, will splurge and buy doubloons right away BECAUSE OF the increased difficulty. While that may be a positive effect, it is a short-term strategy because most greenies are deterred by the difficulty that doubloon prices give the game, and stop playing.

Once someone at GH understands basic economics, maybe we'll have a chance of increasing player retention rates.

Oh, and you also need to fix your client installer: my 20 alts haven't been able to log on in two weeks
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by G_Deleuze at Oct 3, 2016 12:33:18 PM]
[Oct 3, 2016 12:27:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SkelePirate

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Hello, I hope I can add to this discussion. As someone who has played a lot in their teen years, but stopped playing at around poker / SMH, and has played on and off since, I hope I can give you some insight into why me and my family has only played on and off since.

I stopped playing when poker and SMH came out, SMH were really fun at first, but then it killed any motivation to do pillages, and it boiled down to only doing SMH, which wasn't too bad, I loved SMH, but what really got me was poker.

For me and my siblings, it goes like this. We spend hours doing a pillage or doing a SMH, and we play poker, lose all of our earnings, and then lose interest in playing.

For me, I feel that poker has changed the game a lot, a lot of power was shifted when poker came out, and as a teen, I lost all that I had earned through poker, which caused me to stop playing.

I would like to see if there would be any changes to poker.

I do play once in awhile, and keep up with the patch notes, after seeing that OOO was lost and GH took over, I actually have hope for PP now, and I hope that there is communication about the game.

My family and I have actually returned to playing after the greedy pillage patch, and we have fun with it, pillaging is fun again and we love to try and earn chests in the sword fights.

Of course now that we are older, we are more mindful of losing our POE at poker, but for newer players, who play, earn stuff, only to lose it to poker, I can see it being a way to not play the game.
[Oct 4, 2016 7:04:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Strider399

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Re: Ocean wiping/New Oceans

Sorry I'm late to this thread!

I've always been a big advocate of an ocean wipe. I understand completely where opponents of a wipe are coming from; losing all your stuff that you've acquired over the years completely sucks.

I think Xelto posted a fantastic compromise that got glossed over.

I'm not going to go through the naysayers posts and argue every point, I'm just simply posting to show my support of an ocean wipe. While I'd prefer a clean-slate wipe, I think Xelto's post is a great compromise that would accomplish a lot of good.
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[Oct 14, 2016 4:50:12 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
RonenOsden

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I love how almost every supporter of an ocean wipe - has little to nothing to lose.

I have yet to see a single person who has spent years collecting trinkets, pets, ships or familiars support a wipe.

I have never played or heard of a game where you can spend actual money and get in-game items where the game is then wiped, and those items are gone. (Not including third-party sites/etc, which generally break the ToS of those games and would result in a ban.)

I am adamant that an ocean wipe now, would result in the game dying very shortly afterward. There are no opinions or "facts" that you can tell me to change my position on this.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by RonenOsden at Oct 14, 2016 5:47:07 PM]
[Oct 14, 2016 5:46:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.twitch.tv/RonenOsden [Link]  Go to top 
Tygas



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I agree. If they wiped the ocean I would quit without a second thought, and I don't even have that much.
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[Oct 14, 2016 5:48:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Strider399

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I love how almost every supporter of an ocean wipe - has little to nothing to lose.


I find that incredibly condescending. I have hundreds of trinkets, hundreds of trophies, a bunch of portraits, dozens of ships, several shoppes, several familiars, and millions of poe I'd lose if the ocean was wiped. I have more to lose than the "average" player if the ocean was wiped tomorrow.

I just don't have any personal attachment to in-game pixels. I'd rather have a game that is wiped and given a fresh start with some of the major issues fixed (E.g. poker, ocean consolidation [everything is too spread out after the merges], hireable swabbies to help big ships load faster etc.)

Like I said earlier, I get why people don't want to lose their stuff. I just personally think it's kinda ridiculous to put so much value into an intangible in-game object that will literally vanish if/when Grey Havens decides to close the doors.

I believe an e-mail poll should be taken to get a better understanding of what the majority of the player-base wants in regards to a wipe/consolidation. The forums are far from representative of the average player. Four simple questions could be asked:

  • Do you still play? (Yes/No)
  • Do you support a full wipe of all oceans and the reopening of a single new ocean? (Yes/No/Indifferent)
  • Do you support a partial wipe [similar to what Xelto suggested]? (Yes/No/Indifferent)
  • Would you continue playing/come back and play again if a wipe occurred? (Yes/No)

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Strider399 at Oct 14, 2016 7:08:25 PM]
[Oct 14, 2016 7:07:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SkelePirate

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I see a lot of people say that if an Ocean wipe happens, then it will kill the game.

I don't understand this logic, isn't the game already dead? There's barely anyone online.

For me, I lost everything I was attached to when poker came out, and I quit the game after that.

An ocean wipe would interest me, but they need to do something about Poker and other aspect of the game too.

Would they do subscription, or buy doubloons? I honestly think both systems are out of date in todays gaming, everyone is doing microtransactions for vanity items. Could puzzle pirates generate more money by selling vanity items for pirates?
[Oct 14, 2016 10:49:12 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

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Strider399 wrote: 
Like I said earlier, I get why people don't want to lose their stuff. I just personally think it's kinda ridiculous to put so much value into an intangible in-game object that will literally vanish if/when Grey Havens decides to close the doors.

The value is in the memories. Having an item that represents the sloop Midas repainted for me as a reward for helping him on his treasure ship isn't the same as having the actual sloop that I can take out on pillages. Having 3 items that represent the 3 familiars I carry as homage to certain pirates that I "grew up" around isn't the same.

As I said previously, I won't be upset if everything is reset, but I likely won't play after I help hearties get their crews/flags going.
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