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xelto

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Re: On the Horizon: Pillaging update! Reply to this Post
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forculus wrote: 
ruined_ashes wrote: 
All I have to say that I think is the most important, is please don't make it just for elites. Elites already have so much in game.

altheacat wrote: 
Lovely idea but I worry about elitism and time spent in game. Neither would attract and retain new player, in my opinion.

Quite a few people have voiced this concern, and we definitely want this new content to be open and accessible to everyone. I'd be interested to hear some more discussion on this, and ways you think it could be avoided. I've added a bonus for bringing along greenies on the pillage.

Well, a certain amount of elitism isn't avoidable. Take a look at kraken runs. I can't speak for other oceans, but on Emerald you get a mix of highly elite, moderately elite, show evidence of competence, and take-anyone runs. And this was something that was designed to be moderately open.

If there is one thing that really leads to elitism in kraken runs, it's the way that the payoffs for eggs are so much higher than chests, or at least that's the way it's perceived, if not in reality. I think the biggest thing you need to do to avoid elitism is limit how much obviously high-end stuff is available. This is part of the reason I've been recommending avoiding the same familiar, pet, and special color clothing that sea monster runs have. So, for instance, if you don't put a new type of familiar in these boxes, but put in some way of getting basic tan familiars (either outright, or though collecting a set of special trinkets), then you have something that beginning and mid-rank people will look for, but highly experienced players will... well, I expect that there will still be some players trying elite pillages, the way they do now, but there will be less incentive for them to specifically run highly elite runs.

Similarly, I was suggesting providing designs for a few relatively basic dub/sub-free clothing designs, rather than new clothing in a new "pillaging" color, in part because these are things that will appeal to newer players. More experienced players will likely either purchase higher-quality clothing, or continue to wear indigo, atlantean, inky, or sea green nonstop.

Now, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some more valuable items than others, but if you focus on payouts that will appeal to newer players over older ones, that should go a ways towards keeping elitism in check.

And in the way that kraken runs cater to a wide range of experiences, some elitism isn't bad. There just needs to be less elitism than exists in kraken runs.


Oh, and as someone else mentioned: no bonus chests for the vessel owner at all. He's putting NO risk into this. I notice that the proportions of people trying to load pillages compared to those jobbing has moved significantly towards more jobbers ever since the notice board started getting sorted by jobber cut. Don't give vessel owners any incentive to reverse that trend.
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[Edit 3 times, last edit by xelto at Aug 1, 2016 8:36:56 AM]
[Jul 30, 2016 9:41:27 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ryujinpp

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oh and pls fix the merchant hunt expo, i really have never seen one
(if its not broken, perhaps give it equal weightage to spawn as buried treasure & sunken ship expos?)
 
Oh, and as someone else mentioned: no bonus chests for the vessel owner at all. He's putting NO risk into this. I notice that the proportions of people trying to load pillages compared to those jobbing has moved significantly towards more jobbers ever since the notice board started getting sorted by jobber cut. Don't give vessel owners any incentive to reverse that trend.

+1 do injustice to this :D
as far as chests go... if they contain poe, they would also be rewarding bnaver more than jobber... so no poe in chests pls.. ideally anything found in chests fer this content which are randomly divided to all players should go to them in full (no cut awarded to bnaver except the regular booty poe earned from winning battles)

and um... merchant expo? :D :D :D
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[Jul 30, 2016 11:11:43 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    https://www.facebook.com/PuzzlePirates [Link]  Go to top 
EmpressTamar

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Oh, and as someone else mentioned: no bonus chests for the vessel owner at all. He's putting NO risk into this. I notice that the proportions of people trying to load pillages compared to those jobbing has moved significantly towards more jobbers ever since the notice board started getting sorted by jobber cut. Don't give vessel owners any incentive to reverse that trend.

Definitely agree with this. It's fine on sinking smh, but anything non-sinking should never provide additional chests for the navver. I'm in favor of chests containing poe, but surely there's a way to prevent the VO from receiving 20% of the poe from these chests.
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[Jul 31, 2016 1:12:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Altich

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Oh, and as someone else mentioned: no bonus chests for the vessel owner at all. He's putting NO risk into this. I notice that the proportions of people trying to load pillages compared to those jobbing has moved significantly towards more jobbers ever since the notice board started getting sorted by jobber cut. Don't give vessel owners any incentive to reverse that trend.


What is the logic behind this? If that's the case let's also remove the ship owner's cut from regular pillages, since there is no risk.

The ship owner gets a % share of the booty because he founds the pillage. If you want to reduce his cut there is no sense to do so only at particular things like chests.
[Jul 31, 2016 6:15:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Oh, and as someone else mentioned: no bonus chests for the vessel owner at all. He's putting NO risk into this. I notice that the proportions of people trying to load pillages compared to those jobbing has moved significantly towards more jobbers ever since the notice board started getting sorted by jobber cut. Don't give vessel owners any incentive to reverse that trend.

What is the logic behind this? If that's the case let's also remove the ship owner's cut from regular pillages, since there is no risk.

The ship owner gets a % share of the booty because he founds the pillage. If you want to reduce his cut there is no sense to do so only at particular things like chests.

The restock cut is intended for just that: paying for rum and shot. Giving the owner chests, and therefore a higher cut of the "fun" loot, means that more people want to send their ships out, proportionally, than want to job for them. The result is a huge number of ships in port, waiting for enough jobbers to sail, or ships having to return to port early when there aren't enough jobbers remaining to continue.

I don't want to return to those days, thank you. Setting up a pillage was difficult, and sitting in port almost as much as you spent time at sea was boring.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by xelto at Jul 31, 2016 6:52:36 AM]
[Jul 31, 2016 6:50:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Altich

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The restock cut is intended for just that: paying for rum and shot. Giving the owner chests, and therefore a higher cut of the "fun" loot, means that more people want to send their ships out, proportionally, than want to job for them. The result is a huge number of ships in port, waiting for enough jobbers to sail, or ships having to return to port early when there aren't enough jobbers remaining to continue. I don't want to return to those days, thank you. Setting up a pillage was difficult, and sitting in port almost as much as you spent time at sea was boring.


By doing this you reduce the motive of running such pillages. This may not work well as it will increase elite runs (since runs will be few and the demand high).

Also, the captain risks losing the fight because he asks his crew to give priority to stealing the treasure, and after that eliminate the enemy, which may result in a loss and therefore rum/cbs waste.

From any point I view it, I just can't justify not giving the % chest share to the vessel owner.

On a side note, maybe it is time to discuss once again the possibility of giving individual officers the ability to customize the restock % of their own pillage.
[Jul 31, 2016 5:20:46 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sagacious

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By doing this you reduce the motive of running such pillages. This may not work well as it will increase elite runs (since runs will be few and the demand high).

Also, the captain risks losing the fight because he asks his crew to give priority to stealing the treasure, and after that eliminate the enemy, which may result in a loss and therefore rum/cbs waste.

From any point I view it, I just can't justify not giving the % chest share to the vessel owner.

On a side note, maybe it is time to discuss once again the possibility of giving individual officers the ability to customize the restock % of their own pillage.

But it may encourage crews to re-think their jobber cut % as they tend to be set high simply to get jobbers that are hard to get when payouts are as low as they are currently. Better payouts = more for all = more jobbers = reduced jobber cuts.
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[Jul 31, 2016 5:47:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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The restock cut is intended for just that: paying for rum and shot. Giving the owner chests, and therefore a higher cut of the "fun" loot, means that more people want to send their ships out, proportionally, than want to job for them. The result is a huge number of ships in port, waiting for enough jobbers to sail, or ships having to return to port early when there aren't enough jobbers remaining to continue. I don't want to return to those days, thank you. Setting up a pillage was difficult, and sitting in port almost as much as you spent time at sea was boring.

By doing this you reduce the motive of running such pillages.

That is the point. Were you around before the notice board change? Getting a sloop into the water in less than 15 minutes was a challenge, because far more people wanted to run pillages than there were jobbers to fill their ships, solely for the high restock percentage. Getting a brig into the water was worse; it took not only perseverance, but also luck.

 
This may not work well as it will increase elite runs (since runs will be few and the demand high).

A captain can turn a profit on the restock as it currently stands. I regularly make a profit right now with a mere 14% restock-- and you can set that restock all the way up to 30%. He does not need additional booty from chests to turn a profit. I don't see general runs vanishing.

 
Also, the captain risks losing the fight because he asks his crew to give priority to stealing the treasure, and after that eliminate the enemy, which may result in a loss and therefore rum/cbs waste.

Nothing says you have to prioritize greedy brigands. But even if you end up losing a few fights you wouldn't otherwise have lost, you can always increase your restock cut. If you can't turn a profit at 30%, you probably ought to reconsider navigating.

 
On a side note, maybe it is time to discuss once again the possibility of giving individual officers the ability to customize the restock % of their own pillage.

It's a good idea, but if your crew doesn't have some way to work out problems like this, you might want a crew with better organization.

I wouldn't mind at least having the ability to change restock based on voyage type.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by xelto at Jul 31, 2016 6:39:18 PM]
[Jul 31, 2016 6:34:18 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ryujinpp

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Altich wrote: 
 
The restock cut is intended for just that: paying for rum and shot. Giving the owner chests, and therefore a higher cut of the "fun" loot, means that more people want to send their ships out, proportionally, than want to job for them. The result is a huge number of ships in port, waiting for enough jobbers to sail, or ships having to return to port early when there aren't enough jobbers remaining to continue. I don't want to return to those days, thank you. Setting up a pillage was difficult, and sitting in port almost as much as you spent time at sea was boring.


By doing this you reduce the motive of running such pillages. This may not work well as it will increase elite runs (since runs will be few and the demand high).
there are ALWAYS motives fer running pillages.. in random orders:
1. just bcos i love bnav more than anything else and i don't mind losing poe whilst doing it (i can always earn back from kraken and other stuffs);
2. i can make poe faster as a bnaver than being a jobber due to the nice restock profit;
3. munkee-see-munkee-doo.... everyone is loading, it must be good, i should do the same;
4. notice board is empty.. let's do something

i personally and very strongly do not think that this leads to elite runs.. on the contrary, having more jobbers than ship loading will be very much more beneficial to the health of the game as ships set sail sooner rather than sitting at port


borrowing a quote from http://blogs.wsj.com/source/2012/02/26/the-demise-of-kodak-five-reasons
 
1. Caught in Time
Kodak’s top management never fully grasped how the world around them was changing. They hung on to now obsolete assumptions about who took pictures, why and when. Kodak always thought that people would never part with hard prints and that people valued film-based photos for their high quality.
almost everyone play some sort of game on their phone/tablet while commuting, during break etc.. and the games in general are on a "play it now" basis

despite the uniqueness of puzzle pirates, its community and so forth.. players no longer think its normal to wait 30-60mins or longer while jobbed on a ship

kraken design imo is great in that the loading time is minimal, the time commitment to play is also "flexible" in the form of 30mins sessions

so yes, less ship loading is actually a good thing so long as players are out at sea playing rather than waiting at port

 
Also, the captain risks losing the fight because he asks his crew to give priority to stealing the treasure, and after that eliminate the enemy, which may result in a loss and therefore rum/cbs waste.
apart from everyone knowing how to team & sf/rumble.. the success of a pillage tends to hinge on the bnaver's knowledge/ability to shoot at the opposing ship as much as possible while taking very minimal shot in return

and in the case of this new pillage content.. managing treasure loot vs killing brigands/barbs is as important

a captain who opts to loot treasure at the risk of losing the battle has himself/herself to blame fer the loss, rather than blaming game design not awarding them vessel owner's chest
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[Jul 31, 2016 10:50:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    https://www.facebook.com/PuzzlePirates [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

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Altich wrote: 
From any point I view it, I just can't justify not giving the % chest share to the vessel owner.

On a side note, maybe it is time to discuss once again the possibility of giving individual officers the ability to customize the restock % of their own pillage.

I don't really agree with any of your post, but this is the one part I'm going to respond to. Keep in mind, my view is based on Cerulean, not on doubloon oceans.

The crew I'm in, Pirates of the Damned, has a 7% restock cut. Even with that I still have eights left over after restocking my ship. Although, it's considerably less than it used to be with a 20% restock cut.

If those that lead pillages want to earn more than jobbers, then they need to be more transparent about it. They need to be in crews that use Booty shares which are beneficial to the crew/rank within the crew. But instead of doing that, they do go ahead and use "Jobber's Delight" or "Even", and then instead of using restock for its intended purpose, they up it to some insane amount (>15% is absurd for even a mid-level bnav) and use that to increase their take.

VO should only be used for Atlantis and CI, not Kraken Encounters and definitely not for pillages.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by majestrate at Aug 1, 2016 10:59:11 AM]
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Altich

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VO should only be used for Atlantis and CI, not Kraken Encounters and definitely not for pillages.

I guess you meant something else here, because I can't imagine the restock being completely removed on pillages.

 
If those that lead pillages want to earn more than jobbers, then they need to be more transparent about it. They need to be in crews that use Booty shares which are beneficial to the crew/rank within the crew. But instead of doing that, they do go ahead and use "Jobber's Delight" or "Even", and then instead of using restock for its intended purpose, they up it to some insane amount (>15% is absurd for even a mid-level bnav) and use that to increase their take.

I don't dissagree, if you want more jobbers then reduce the restock cut. But let players decide this, don't restrict them.

But still, there is the problem that the officer can't directly adjust the restock% of his pillage. I wish this was changed.
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EmpressTamar

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VO should only be used for Atlantis and CI, not Kraken Encounters and definitely not for pillages.

I guess you meant something else here, because I can't imagine the restock being completely removed on pillages.

I don't think you understand the difference between VO and restock. VO is 20% of chests won on SMH. This amount cannot be changed, and is taken from the 'pool' of chests upon port and before dividing. Restock is completely different. This amount can be changed, and is a certain percentage of the overall poe won from the voyage.

Nobody is saying that restock should be removed from pillages. What we are instead proposing is that extra chests/poe should not be awarded to the navver ON TOP OF the poe already set aside for restocking the ship. The only reason that SMH navvers get VO (different from restock) is to compensate for the risk of losing their ship and the significant jobbing time spent. Neither of these factors are true for pillages.
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[Aug 1, 2016 6:36:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
SirEtcetera

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From my own perspective I think some of the recent posts here share some valid points regarding VO but also regarding SMH in general compared to pillaging.

I think the biggest attraction to pillaging for a pirate is that it should in effect be a guaranteed source of money in comparison to SMH which should effectually be much riskier. For myself as a player I tend to find myself comparing Puzzle Pirates to other online games and I find that SMH often takes on the role of a raid or dungeon for other games. So at first glance you might find that similar to games like Rift and World of Warcraft many players are essentially "rushing" through the designed early "leveling" portion of the game in Puzzle Pirates to get to that end game "raiding" portion.

The attraction of rewards in game modes such as Atlantis, Kraken Hunt, Cursed Isle, and Haunted Seas really makes the other aspect of the game worthless to the general population. Even the balance between these events is often skewed to favor some events more than others as better risk vs reward factors. One example of this is in Kraken Hunt where you have essentially 0 risk with the potential of several thousand PoE per entrance. For many players one single trip on a SMH can offset the cost of a Bravery Badge in the current game economy.

When all of this is put into consideration it is easy to assume that the quick fix for pillaging is just to add in reward chests/items to increase the value of pillaging to more players. However, I would also argue consideration against adding too many items or even items at all. I think many issues regarding pillaging could be solved by creating balance within the game itself.

What do I mean when I say creating balance?

Well first off I would suggest an increase in cost for bravery badges and a reduced direct PoE payout for SMH. It seems strange to me that a "deluxe" labor badge costs 3x as much as a bravery badge when SMH pay in many cases 10x or more what a player can earn in labor over 30 days. Labor puzzles are often some of the hardest puzzles in the game and each player is limited in the number of jobs they can hold so a player is always limited in the total amount of profit they can make per character. However, some players can often attend multiple SMH trips in the same day making upwards of 100k PoE in a single day. This means that over a 30-day period of time that player can often make in excess of 3 million poe which is substantially more than the 5 doubloons they paid for their badge. These profits are many times even higher for a VO with the increased potential payout from VO chests creating a substantial imbalance. To bring more players back to pillaging the first step is to recreate the risk vs reward aspect in acquiring a bravery badge. Is that player REALLY going to be running enough trips to continuously afford the badge? This to me means that a bravery badge should really be closer to a 15-20 doubloon range where not just one trip in 30 days is going to pay for a badge.


Adding to the above section I think it would also be a crucial fix to really reduce the number of available SMH maps floating around in the game. The current number seem like they have been geared to a much larger community and so many players are able to acquire multiple maps to the same spot and then other maps to the next area they want rather efficiently even for low prices that make running SMH an extremely profitable endeavor. Often times in a major inn there is always at least one map for sale to the SMH of a navigators choice. Finding a map is simply too easy for every navigator. Many maps generate in groups of 3 lasting 8 full days and selling for only 10k each. If maps became much more rare players would be forced to pay higher prices for maps. Simply put I think maps spawn way too fast in too large a quantity. However, one downside to this choice could be that it causes players to become even more selective in their overall jobbing making SMH a much more elite aspect of the game. This also could over time increase the cost of many SMH oriented items and colors that can only be obtained through these methods.

Another aspect to this conversation is the direct changes to pillaging. If we simply "add chests with item rewards" to pillage then it could be very easy to imbalance the economy of the game which for MANY islands is already non-existent. This can be especially true if many items are what you might call "functional" such as swords, bludgeons, chests, wardrobes, and clothing. Since furniture items don't really degrade while placed until picked up often times players can merely acquire an old item from a recent chest drop and use it for many months at a reduced cost to a new item. So simply "adding chests with item rewards" can eventually have a devastating impact to the overall gameplay. So how do you fix or avoid this kind of impact? The short answer is always going to be not adding the items just adding more PoE payouts. The larger fix might be brand new color schemes for pillaging on display focused items, new color chromatics, and pillaging specific ship and item designs that are craft able through shoppes/stalls.

However, as many people have already pointed out increasing payouts affects both the jobbers and the VO really making more players want to run their own ships. BUT.... I think this really is the best option available. Often times players are drawn to pillaging for the speed at which they can perform the task. You aren't hampered by extended timelines requiring attendance but rather you are there for a battle and then if needed gone again. The only real sustainer for pillage jobbers was always that by staying longer the ramp might increase to higher payouts. Yes, as a player who has the time it might be more cost effective to me to setup and run my own ship if I'm good at it but for a player who doesn't always have the time to wait for a ship to load it can often be quickest to jump right out onto a ship that's sailing joining mid-trip. THIS in my opinion at its core is the biggest advantage pillaging has to draw players. So if there were a way to really capitalize on all of this without hurting the ship for leaving players then I would say you have the makings of a beautiful foundation.


This has been my two cents. I think half way through I started rambling as it took me about an hour to type all of this while doing multiple things. I'm sorry if something seems incoherent. I'll be around to talk more about the points I've made if something isn't clear or someone wants to add to what I have said.

Also, as others have said before me. BIG THANK YOU to Forculus, this is honestly some of the best developer to player communication I have ever seen in an online game and it really gives me hope for the future.
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[Aug 1, 2016 9:14:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ryujinpp

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Adding to the above section I think it would also be a crucial fix to really reduce the number of available SMH maps floating around in the game. The current number seem like they have been geared to a much larger community and so many players are able to acquire multiple maps to the same spot and then other maps to the next area they want rather efficiently even for low prices that make running SMH an extremely profitable endeavor. Often times in a major inn there is always at least one map for sale to the SMH of a navigators choice. Finding a map is simply too easy for every navigator.
i've been pondering abt this same point fer a long time, feeling that popular smh maps should be awarded only via pillage, while the less popular ones via undead frays... but tis not an ideal solution as it benefits bnaver to win map rather than equal chance with jobbers

i feel that this new pillage content can resolve that

how about spawning only cursed isles and haunted sea maps via zombie/skellie frays?

make kraken & atlantis maps available only via pillage in the form of it being random item in chest which are randomly awarded to anyone on the boat (not straight onto the chart table fer bnaver benefitting one person)

those who won it could either use it fer themselves or sell the map fer poe

since kraken and atlantis are the most profitable and popular smh activities around... would this makes pillaging a wee bit more attractive too? if such maps can be randomly won by jobbers and can be sold fer upwards of 15k?

of cos those who prefer to use rogue mark fer random charts... can still try lottery chance with them :D
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[Aug 1, 2016 10:34:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    https://www.facebook.com/PuzzlePirates [Link]  Go to top 
saintdiana

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a bravery badge should really be closer to a 15-20 doubloon range

the imbalance you pointed out might, perhaps, be better solved the other way, in reducing the cost of a labour badge (maybe even separating shoppe badge from forage one, i seem to remember it being suggested some years ago), while keeping that of the bravery badge. if i was a new player i'd find it an insurmountable wall -- paying so much for something that, if tried once, would prove to be too difficult, even humiliating in terms of criticism from the more experienced onboard. i'm aware it's an unpopular notion, but i have actually LEARNT a lot from every type of smh, and can imagine that if kh had been released earlier in my pirate career, it would have gone a long way towards safer and more confident bnav in other environments. you might imagine a player would prefer the 8dubs for an officer badge first, then attempt to join a kh with its 20s turns, but wouldn't that be an unnecessary shock, as it was for a lot of us? wouldn't it be preferable to train in a safe yet high-paced environment, after which pillage bnav would leave them a few seconds every turn for a quick overview of stationing, stock, other events, answering questions?

about vo: in an honest pirate world, vo cut, if and only if the owner isn't actually onboard, would be a way to reward players who keep their ships unlocked and allow their crewmates more freedom. in fact, trading the deed to an alt is too easy and would be over-used.

map spawn: if kraken maps become available only through boxes and pillage, that alone, more than anything, might be what brings people back to pillaging in satisfying numbers (unless it leads to RM/poe sink, which is also not bad). you have my vote, zombie hunter as i am.
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xelto

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i've been pondering abt this same point fer a long time, feeling that popular smh maps should be awarded only via pillage, while the less popular ones via undead frays... but tis not an ideal solution as it benefits bnaver to win map rather than equal chance with jobbers

Keep in mind that pillaging, while an important part of the game, isn't the only part of the game. As near as I can tell, this update is designed to bring some value back to pillaging, not to remove value from other parts of the game.

If you want to remove maps from frays, suggest something that would make a good alternative-- valuable enough that people would be interested in it, but not so valuable that it would upstage the rest of the game.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by xelto at Aug 2, 2016 5:00:13 AM]
[Aug 2, 2016 4:57:40 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Altich

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It's the first time I've heard of this VO chest cut, although I always knew that the bnaver gets more items.

I now wonder something else: Why this VO chest cut is independent from restock%? It would be best to be able to adjust the VO accordingly (or separately) to the restock%. This, in addition to the officer in charge being able to change the restock/VO of his own pillage, would be a sufficient solution imo.
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majestrate

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Forculus: My apologies for derailing your thread :( [ though the trend continues with this post 2x :( ]

Altich wrote: 
I don't dissagree, if you want more jobbers then reduce the restock cut. But let players decide this, don't restrict them.

The problem is that it doesn't provide an accurate representation of what a jobber earns. I actually wouldn't mind seeing restock cut be a sliding scale according to the Booty share configuration.

Meaning within each booty share configuration, the percentage can only go so high (still only configured per crew):

Even - 0%-10%
Rank's Privilege - 0%-20%
Jobber's Delight - 0%-10%
Crew Loyalty - 0%-30%
Promotion Pays - 0%-25%
Officer Club - 0%-25%
Jobber's Bane - 0%-30%
Trader Shares - 0%-10%
The Cruel Shelf - 0%-30%

Those are just suggestions. But it should help jobbers see that when they're jobbing for "Jobber's Delight" with a restock cut of 25%, they might be better off jobbing for Even at 10% (using current possible configurations; not the above).

Altich wrote: 
I now wonder something else: Why this VO chest cut is independent from restock%? It would be best to be able to adjust the VO accordingly (or separately) to the restock%. This, in addition to the officer in charge being able to change the restock/VO of his own pillage, would be a sufficient solution imo.

VO is supposed to be a reward for putting your ship at risk of being sunk. Restock cut is used so that restocking the ship doesn't come out of the pocket of the vessel owner.

I don't see too much benefit in allowing VO to be adjustable at all, much less by the individual pirate. For restock cut, if you don't like the percentage that your crew is set at, find a new crew. That's how you adjust it.

I too like Ryu's suggestion on how to handle future spawning of charts. People were hunting monster frays long before SMH was released. And not in small numbers either. The people that like monster hunting are going to continue to do it, regardless of whether a map is a prize or not.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by majestrate at Aug 2, 2016 12:59:15 PM]
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Altich

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VO is supposed to be a reward for putting your ship at risk of being sunk. Restock cut is used so that restocking the ship doesn't come out of the pocket of the vessel owner. I don't see too much benefit in allowing VO to be adjustable at all, much less by the individual pirate. For restock cut, if you don't like the percentage that your crew is set at, find a new crew. That's how you adjust it. I too like Ryu's suggestion on how to handle future spawning of charts. People were hunting monster frays long before SMH was released. And not in small numbers either. The people that like monster hunting are going to continue to do it, regardless of whether a map is a prize or not.

You say there is no benefit at adjusting the VO but you don't explain why.

Also, it would be way more convenient to adjust the restock percentage yourself rather than find a new crew.
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majestrate

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I didn't say there is no benefit to making VO adjustable. I said I don't see the benefit. As to why I feel that way, because I think it will turn into another way for vessel owners to obfuscate what their jobbers will actually earn on a voyage. (hurray for Jobber's Delight with a 30% restock and a 30% VO cut).

If you make crew cut adjustable per person, then why bother with a crew? You join a crew because you agree with that crew's politics and public face. Yes, you have friends in the crew (or you make them), but if you don't agree with how it's run, then you leave. That includes the restock percentage.

Having said that, if devs did go down the road of making it individually configurable, then the max should be set by the crew (which is also the default setting if the OiC doesn't change it).
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Gorillabuddy

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Perhaps the devs could alter the info about divvy method to say something like "<X>% of the booty earned on this voyage will be divided among the crew using <Y method>. " You could also add a bit saying "<A>% will go to vessel restock and <B>% will go to the vessel owner."

Going even further, you could color code these percentages relative to how generous they are to the rest of the ocean. You could count all the booty splits over a week, for example, and track the different percentages. Let's say the average restock is 20%. Then if a crew had a restock of 30%, it would show up red, 20% yellow, 10% green. This could be set up using standard deviations, ie. different color codes for different standard deviations above or below the mean, or just a certain offset from the average.
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[Aug 3, 2016 12:58:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Altich

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If you make crew cut adjustable per person, then why bother with a crew? You join a crew because you agree with that crew's politics and public face. Yes, you have friends in the crew (or you make them), but if you don't agree with how it's run, then you leave. That includes the restock percentage.

I completely disagree here. Many times I found myself in a crew with a restock% I didn't agree with. Still, I stayed in this crew because of other things (activity of players, friends, available ships etc.) I always found it completely stupid that the restock% isn't adjustable to individual officers of the same crew. And that's because I find absolutely no reason not to.

 
Having said that, if devs did go down the road of making it individually configurable, then the max should be set by the crew (which is also the default setting if the OiC doesn't change it).

I wouldn't disagree if the maximum restock and VO is set by the crew. That would actually make sense because some crews may want to appear "fair" to jobbers. But the opposite (forcing all officers a high restock) isn't true.
Also I wouldn't mind if the maximum VO value is set to 20% (to prevent increasing it to 30).

But I think this discussion belongs to another thread. Actually I would be surprised if no one has brought up this matter yet. I must search for it and continue there.
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SirEtcetera

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I completely disagree here. Many times I found myself in a crew with a restock% I didn't agree with. Still, I stayed in this crew because of other things (activity of players, friends, available ships etc.) I always found it completely stupid that the restock% isn't adjustable to individual officers of the same crew. And that's because I find absolutely no reason not to.


I would venture to guess that the main reason they haven't made it an individual choice was to make the game more realistic. I mean how many employees get to pick prices on the products they sell? Or how many of those employees decide their exact pay rate down to the cent?

You yourself said that you have stayed in crews for the people and not based on the pay rate/type. So I don't understand the major issue you seem to be having that would require individual pay scales for each ship and pirate. I guess I don't completely understand the argument.
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TexasBeesh

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You can adjust the amount the ship takes when you go split the booty. And even -1 or +1 yourself.
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[Aug 4, 2016 8:39:20 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Altich

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You yourself said that you have stayed in crews for the people and not based on the pay rate/type. So I don't understand the major issue you seem to be having that would require individual pay scales for each ship and pirate. I guess I don't completely understand the argument.

I stayed to crews I disagreed with the restock% because they had other kind of advantages. But it was a huge pain having a 30% restock with no way to lower it.

The rest of the crew wins absolutely nothing from not letting individual pirates adjust the restock. So how is that realistic?

 
You can adjust the amount the ship takes when you go split the booty. And even -1 or +1 yourself.

Usually the reason officers want to reduce the restock isn't only because they are good people, but because they want to get more jobbers. And the jobbers won't know how much you will adjust the amount at the booty division.

Anyways, the original argument was whether there will be a VO chest cut or no at the greedy brigands thing.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Altich at Aug 4, 2016 8:48:50 AM]
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We just did a few battles with these greedy bastards or whatever they are called.

Edit - moved post to Ice discussion
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by shadymermady at Aug 9, 2016 1:52:47 AM]
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RonenOsden

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I would agree with most of whats been said in this thread. I however do not believe that these "Greedy" pirates would be the best choice to improve pillaging.

Personally I believe if payouts are slightly increased and the various expeditions are made more frequent that would solve the issues.

Otherwise somethings Ive been waiting for (10 years) would be Treasure fleets or merchant convoys. I realize they would both me more "SMH" then pillage, but still - it gets people on boats and off Poker. (REMOVE POKER!)

P.s. In my opinion it is always better to fix/upgrade current content then to continue adding new things. I hadnt played for a few months, and was glad to see that nothing new had been added. Please just focus on listening to the community and fixing current issues before adding new content that may radically change certain aspects of the game we know and love. EX: Make the coins in 30 sec+ turn TD fall like they obey the laws of physics please.
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TexasBeesh

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Personally I believe if payouts are slightly increased and the various expeditions are made more frequent that would solve the issues.


While glad something is being done in general, this above would be the simple fix. All people asked for was for the above...increase pay outs.

I am a solo pillager so I don't really know how this will affect my game play, or if I will even get these "greedy" pirates. Still looking forward to the update. I'd have just been happy with more pay out though :D
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Dexla

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Personally I believe if payouts are slightly increased and the various expeditions are made more frequent that would solve the issues.


While glad something is being done in general, this above would be the simple fix. All people asked for was for the above...increase pay outs.

I am a solo pillager so I don't really know how this will affect my game play, or if I will even get these "greedy" pirates. Still looking forward to the update. I'd have just been happy with more pay out though :D


Funny you should mention that.... I joined in on battle #4 or 5

====== 2016/08/9 ======
[15:30:59] Game over. Winners: Dexla, Ryujin, Adnerb, Popeye, Owlwhisperer, Bobiddybob, Godmother.
[15:31:19] The victors plundered 22,432 pieces of eight and 2 units of goods from the defeated vessel.
[15:31:19] Ye received 1443 pieces of eight as your initial cut of the booty!

[15:49:26] Game over. Winners: Dexla, Ryujin, Adnerb, Popeye, Owlwhisperer, Bobiddybob, Godmother.
[15:49:52] The victors plundered 21,118 pieces of eight and 37 units of goods from the defeated vessel.
[15:49:52] Ye received 1358 pieces of eight as your initial cut of the booty!

[16:06:52] Game over. Winners: Dexla, Ryujin, Adnerb, Popeye, Owlwhisperer, Bobiddybob, Godmother.
[16:07:18] The victors plundered 30,924 pieces of eight and 16 units of goods from the defeated vessel.
[16:07:18] Ye received 1988 pieces of eight as your initial cut of the booty!

[16:22:02] Game over. Winners: Dexla, Ryujin, Adnerb, Owlwhisperer, Bobiddybob, Godmother.
[16:22:02] Barnabas the Pale says, "Very well, I shall give each of yer dedicated hands one Will o' wisp in ransom for my release."
[16:22:26] The victors plundered 43,074 pieces of eight and 12 units of goods from the defeated vessel.
[16:22:26] Ye received 3231 pieces of eight as your initial cut of the booty!

[16:22:56] Dexla says, "I'd much rather have these payouts on Cerulean, than any ol greedy brigand"
[16:23:04] Ryujin says, "if only the pillage payout on production ocean is like these :D"

[16:25:54] You received 6,128 pieces of eight as your cut of the booty!
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RonenOsden

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Personally I believe if payouts are slightly increased and the various expeditions are made more frequent that would solve the issues.


While glad something is being done in general, this above would be the simple fix. All people asked for was for the above...increase pay outs.

I am a solo pillager so I don't really know how this will affect my game play, or if I will even get these "greedy" pirates. Still looking forward to the update. I'd have just been happy with more pay out though :D


Funny you should mention that.... I joined in on battle #4 or 5

====== 2016/08/9 ======
[15:31:19] Ye received 1443 pieces of eight as your initial cut of the booty!
[15:49:52] Ye received 1358 pieces of eight as your initial cut of the booty!
[16:07:18] Ye received 1988 pieces of eight as your initial cut of the booty!
[16:22:26] Ye received 3231 pieces of eight as your initial cut of the booty!
[16:25:54] You received 6,128 pieces of eight as your cut of the booty!


14148 for an hour pillaging = still WAY less then smh. I make that on 1 dip kraken runs.
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