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majestrate

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Re: On the Horizon: Pillaging update! Reply to this Post
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Forculus wrote: 
bailet wrote: 
One of my major complaints about the booty ramp/pillaging is that major stat changes or crew changes kill the ramp very rapidly.

ryujinpp wrote: 
booty ramp are affected by pirates change throughout the voyage and is very greenie unfriendly, could we perhaps have a totally different system fer this?

I will look into using the suggested win/loss history rather than the difficulty ramp. I agree that allowing pirates changes during the pillage would be preferable. One downside however is that this could introduce an exploit, where after reaching the max spawn rate of Greedy brigands, players shuffle around their jobbers to reset the difficulty. This would allow maximum reward with minimal risk. Maybe a combination of the two systems would work.

A combination created by splitting the chances of getting the GBs from the difficulty of the GBs. The chances are increased as you win more battles, the difficulty (and thus the reward) is based on crew stats. The more you win consecutively, the more likely your chances at finding a GB. The stronger your crew, the more difficult the GB.

To attempt to curb elitism (because we all know you can't prevent it), have 2/3rds of the NPPs chainsaw if difficulty reaches a certain level?

Or, have the rewards begin to decline at a certain player ship strength. Maybe something that better rewards the mid-level pillagers instead of the "elite" pillagers. Unfortunately, that makes it very susceptible to exploitation.

On another note. I like the idea of eights-tradable items. Collectors can collect, eights-hogs can cash in. If that is implemented, please look at modifying SMH to do the same thing. Maybe half the price of the discount given for items at the trading post? So if a trinket knocks off 2k from the price of whatever, you can cash it in for 1k.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by majestrate at Jul 23, 2016 1:18:43 AM]
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xelto

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-More items similar to kb, getting a couple of these can make or break a pillage, especially for greenies.

While not directly tied to Greedy Brigands, I like the thought of this. Kraken blood used to be something special that pillages had, but it became less special when kraken lairs came out. Adding in a couple commodities that can only be acquired through pillaging (one rare and valuable, like ivory, and one more common one, like leather) would be a nice touch.

Of course, then you would have to either make new items that use these new commodities, or revamp some existing recipes. But honestly, some of them need a revamp anyway, to account for the fact that we have ink now. Why doesn't paper and quill need ink? It's got an inkpot prominently in the picture!

 
This would then flow nicely into Pats idea regarding the gem based rewards: furniture, trinkets etc. I love this idea. It would be a nice addition to the game using an existing element. I say we use silver as the primary colour to give a marked distinction and not have it look like gold box items. We could have items like:

-- gem blinged out game tables that let you play all the various carousing games. You could even add an identifier that lets other players see that you are playing on a special table. e.g. when you play poker or spades or hearts your cards are a special gem designed deck.
-- pool furniture
-- grammophone table top item
-- steamer trunks to use as coffee tables
-- wall mirrors

I'm going to go back to a suggestion I made earlier, and that's having some of the winnable items not come in direct "open box, get prize", but have them be something you can take the things you won and use them in the construction of prizes you want at either a tailor, furniture, or who knows, possibly an iron monger or shipyard, if you want fancy weapons. After all, while logic and YPP frequently don't go together, "Gurndigarn performs a masterful strike against Dread Pirate Roberts and knocks loose a Gaudy Pirate Card Table!" just seems silly. Being able to take a collection of gems or whatnot to a furnisher and making such a table, though, fits.

Though again, if they have excessive doubloon fees, it's not much of a reward, especially anything that would be considered "low end". And I"m not saying that some small items can't be won outright, but I think it would be better if large items involved some sort of fabrication.

 
A combination created by splitting the chances of getting the GBs from the difficulty of the GBs. The chances are increased as you win more battles, the difficulty (and thus the reward) is based on crew stats. The more you win consecutively, the more likely your chances at finding a GB. The stronger your crew, the more difficult the GB.

+1. You could even have brigands show up with mixed difficulties: some are easier to knock loot off of, but the loot is of lower quality. How challenging the special brigands are would be like the varying chest quantities in the different Atlantis zones: someone in the shallows (IE, a ship with a lot of greenies) would get a high percentage of easy but with low quality loot, with a few medium and the rare hard ones, while a ship in the deep end gets a thorough mix of easy, medium, and hard.

(I'm hoping there are more than three difficulty levels for these special brigands, though.)

 
From the original post:
There may be some incentive to draw out the melee for a long time so that players can build up specific color attacks.

If you make it so that each greedy pirate has one, and only one piece of booty, this is less of an issue. Also, if you have it so that if the brigands win, you don't get the booty, there's an incentive to finish quickly once you've gotten the extra loot.

 
And Forculus in a later post:
When you change your target, the puzzle board updates immediately to highlight a specific color of the fused blocks. We'd like to add some sort of icon or identifier near the face portraits so that you can quickly see the types of Greedy brigands there are, just haven't found a good place to put it yet.

Give them crowns/tiaras/diadems, with gems or some other identifying feature in the appropriate color.

If you're using a system that has each greedy brigand have his own "challenge level", and if you want us to be able to tell how challenging each individual brigand is (I'm of mixed feelings about that possibility), make the headgear gaudier the tougher the brigand's level.

And if you go with the idea of having each of these brigands have only one piece of loot each, then have them lose their crown if someone gets their loot.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
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[Edit 4 times, last edit by xelto at Jul 23, 2016 8:01:29 PM]
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saintdiana

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Re: On the Horizon: Pillaging update! Reply to this Post
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this "powerful strike" seems like a good way to confuse and frustrate new players. i don't know anyone who turns to the "how to play" section instead of asking someone who may or may not (think they) know the answer, and also there are so many veteran sprinklers about. we haven't had an example of the greedy going out with inventory intact -- is there a chat notice then too, telling players what they did wrong, where they can go to learn about strikes?
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Re: On the Horizon: Pillaging update! Reply to this Post
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checks thread date

2016

checks OP

staff

HOLY BARNACLE


If a word is filtered in-game, it should be filtered on the forums. - Faulkston
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Faulkston at Jul 23, 2016 6:16:23 PM]
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xelto

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Re: On the Horizon: Pillaging update! Reply to this Post
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Incidentally, if you're taking suggestions on the names of these guys, can I recommend "Vain Brigands" instead of "Greedy"? I mean, they're all supposed to be greedy. And if, as has been suggested, there's a focus on gems or other obvious valuables, it just fits better.
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Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
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Nyrios



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Re: On the Horizon: Pillaging update! Reply to this Post
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We'd love to hear your thoughts and suggestions, both on this idea and on Pillaging as a whole!


Well when it comes to Thoughts (i didnt read all the replys yet so hope not to repeat anyone), i think there are some ways u could make this more exciting, i saw someone mentioned boxes, well that would go well with maybe a new type of fam but that may be too much. One thing that i think pirates would also love is the ability to win and wear the ornaments the greedy pirates use, having a new "clothing" available called Ornament or something. this are my thoughts so far, keep up the good work. meanwhile im going to go see if i find some greedy brigands ^^
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ryujinpp

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Regarding chest/box concept as drops from greedy brigands/barbs...

I would like to very very very much request for the followings:
1. that chest/box drops contains strictly no Poe but just items;
2. that there is absolutely NO box/chest being set aside for vessel owner

Reason?
I would very very very seriously like/love/want to see jobbers being rewarded equally with bnaver in pillages fer this new content. After all, there is already extras being awarded to bnaver in the form of restock cut. Plus random commodities won which are very commonly kept by the bnaver (to sell after divvy with the exception of KB which most bnavers are decent enough to sell dockside before divvy)

Don't get me wrong here.. I'm not merely requesting fer this being a jobber bcos I am a bnaver myself and I noticed that one of the many existing problem with loading ship is caused by "too many chiefs, too few indians"

This problem occurs on every ocean irregardless of population.. The only difference being that on more populated oceans, players will queue up to try loading bigger ships.. Just bcos the game rewards bnaver more than jobbers

Unless this game content is made accessible to below average bnaver/sf-er/rumbler who could solo a sloop with 4 swabbies and win enough battles to start spawning these greedy brigands/barbs and still be able to defeat them in melee, otherwise there would be many ships not being able to set sail as everyone waits n compete fer jobbers at port

Kraken hunt is so successful bcos it can be done solo, or with 1-2 jobbers, and without heavy time commitment.. Resulting in very minimal loading time and every single jobber can hop off after a dip without affecting the voyage if RL interferes
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Galene tells ye, "You crashed me 6 times!"

Ryujin on all oceans
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Altich

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Re: On the Horizon: Pillaging update! Reply to this Post
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I like the idea of making pillies more interesting, but I like even more the fact that this (if it happens) will be an actual content update (although a minor one) and everyone knows that content updates are so rare nowadays in puzzle pirates.

Keep working to make puzzle pirates a better game and restore its former glory Forculus! You have my support.
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jlh0605

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The ONE weekend I don't check the forums (celebrating my wife's birthday, yay!) we get amazing news!

First, thank you, thank you, thank you, for putting new development time into something other than SMH's and minor fixes. While those are both great (especially the minor fixes. :D ), I am very pleased to see real effort being put into pillaging. There is SO much to say about this ... but so much has already been said! I'll emphasize the parts I found/find important.

1) Booty Ramp
a) Shipwide: As Forculus mentioned, going purely off of win/loss record is exploitable. But as lots of people also mentioned, going purely off of booty ramp is fickle at best, time consuming at a minimum, and frustrating for sure.
Forculus wrote: 
I will look into using the suggested win/loss history rather than the difficulty ramp. I agree that allowing pirates changes during the pillage would be preferable. One downside however is that this could introduce an exploit, where after reaching the max spawn rate of Greedy brigands, players shuffle around their jobbers to reset the difficulty. This would allow maximum reward with minimal risk. Maybe a combination of the two systems would work.
I have an idea here, but it's hard to describe. Forculus, you mentioned a "max spawn rate of Greedy brigands". I would say that this number should scale based on shipwide difficulty/might. If you hit this max with strong pirates, and suddenly half of the strong pirates leave, this max spawn rate would also be cut in half. If suddenly all those strong pirates get back on board, the max spawn rate goes back to its previous value. If overall shipwide strength goes down, the maximum winnable treasure from "Greedy" brigands also goes down.

b) Personal: I personally am a fan of the idea Sagacious phrased best:
Sagacious wrote: 
I think what would be nice is to give each player aboard their own mini-ramp with this Greedy Brigands system. The longer you're on the pillage, the better your rewards from them are or something. Incentivize spending time on the pillage beyond just the one battle is good, but also it could actively discourage abandoning a ship in battle to avoid losing a portion of your bonus already worked towards.
Combine this with scaling rewards based on performance (in a similar way to blockades and/or SMH's), and you have a way for "elite" pirates to earn more, and for greenies to earn their way up.

2) Ice Testing
As Bailet said, it would be nice to have Ice open to everybody for this test (and have that fact advertised in-game on the Notice Board at least). I don't know the technical details in doing that, but it would be nice to test properly on AT LEAST a war brig.

A suggestion for this would be: If a pirate hasn't ever bought anything on their account, their Ice pirates are deleted and/or frozen at the end of this testing period. (Make sure they know that, too. Maybe a message at every log in.)

3) Prizes
a) Mechanism: I suggest that prizes won are given to the ship as chests. In order for this to be even remotely fair to all players, the number of chests would need to be relatively large. In Haunted Seas, chests are so rare that it is not unusual for a pirate to be constantly puzzling (at a high level), and get absolutely nothing but PoE. In contrast, in Kraken/CI, everybody will win at least some items. Mostly PoE, but some items. And those who do better tend to win more, and better, items. The new shinies need to be distributed closer to Kraken/CI than to HS. The ballpark figure that I'm thinking of is about 1-2 chests per pirate per battle in a LOW prize battle, and 5-6 chests per pirate per battle in a HIGH prize battle.

Side note 1: I am mostly neutral as to whether this should be a new type of chest, or simply converting Expedition chests to this purpose. The one thing that leans me towards the former (new chest type) is that the buried treasure expedition is already fairly balanced as-is. While it'd be nice to win items from them too, it may be too overpowered and/or exploitable, especially from Black Box Buried Treasure expos.

Side note 2: We need to be careful not to fill up the hold of a sloop with chests. Or, alternately, divvying the booty needs to not reset booty ramp. If an elite loaded sloop could pull 35-45 chests per battle, 10 battles, plus some buried treasure expos, plus stock, plus the fruit you win, and that hull fills very quickly.

b) Distribution: About half of the chests contain PoE, the other half items. I propose that half of all chests be distributed equally, and half based on merit. The half that are distributed equally would work exactly how current booty div for pillages work. You're in 6 battles while he's only in 3? You get exactly twice as many chests as him. The other half should be distributed based on merit. Consistently puzzling, puzzling well, and especially being the one to send the strikes that knocked the treasure loose, should all win you bonus chests. Battle navigation could also win you some, but this would need to be significantly toned down from the VO/bnav cut in current SMH's. Important to this point: Rarer chests have an equal chance of being split equally or on merit. It should be possible to win a rare prize simply for being in a battle. Otherwise, what reason would a greenie have to come? But due to the merit-based half, it's easier to win a rare prize by doing well. So it encourages improvement, without elitism.

c) Prize content: There have been so many excellent ideas here, many summarized in Meehearties' post. I would love to see a pillaging-exclusive color, similar to indigo for CI, night blue for HS, etc. I would also prefer that this color be significantly visually different from the current colors (silver might be too close to grey, etc.) Sea green might work for this. I would recommend, at a bare minimum, the following be available:
* Beachcomber trinkets (in cloth colors and the new color).
* New trinkets. At least 10-15 types. A palette of at least 10-15 colors, but preferably a new palette, not simply cloth+new color.
* New furniture. Some one-color, some two-color. Use the same palette as trinkets (possibly a subset of this palette for one color of two-color items). I'm not a furniture guy, so go with what Meehearties said. Side note: can you make the palettes for available furniture colors public?
* New pet(s). At least one, maybe two. Number of available colors similar to gator/kark.
* New familiar. As has been mentioned many times, one of the reasons to do activities is the chance of winning rare prizes. Familiars fall in this. But it needs to be a NEW familiar, ONLY winnable in pillages. At least 10-15 color options. Can be trinket palette or some two-color subset of trinket palette.
* Some "junk" swords/clothes/mugs/bludgeons/furniture, similar to current SMH's. Especially if trading in (see below point) is implemented.

Note on all prizes: Make collecting all of the trinkets/pets/furniture/etc. somewhat difficult, but not impossible. Collection will help drive prices (rarer colors more, etc.). Atlantis trinkets are almost too easy to collect (only 5 colors, but somewhat offset by the huge number), while black market ones are impossible (way too many, in way too many colors). Kraken has close to what I feel is the right balance of "number of items needed to complete collection."

d) Trading in/redeeming: I (begrudgingly) support the fact that items should be able to be turned in at the trading post. I also (begrudgingly) support the mechanism that items can be traded in for PoE (perhaps at a bank). However, jumping on my soap box and derailing slightly: Trading posts should be trading posts, not the current Selling posts that they are. I think pirates should also be able to BUY the items being sold to trading posts. Obviously, the trading post would turn a profit. Say, charge double to triple what the trading post paid. You can even make them disappear after two weeks, if they're not bought. But as a trinket collector, it pains me very, very, very dearly to see golden turtle shell TRINKETS sell for over 200K, because they are all being traded for pets. I know, this is a new feature request, and different from the pillaging one being discussed, but one I have personally felt strongly about for a long time (well, ever since trading posts came out). End derailment.

4) Naming
I like the idea of Cutthroat Brigands. They have been so much more ruthless that they stole the extra booty, and they're vicious enough to keep it from their crewmates. OF course, these wouldn't be tolerated on a BK/BQ ship.

5) Identifying a brigand's "weak" color
Forculus wrote: 
When you change your target, the puzzle board updates immediately to highlight a specific color of the fused blocks. We'd like to add some sort of icon or identifier near the face portraits so that you can quickly see the types of Greedy brigands there are, just haven't found a good place to put it yet.
One suggestion - use a border. I assume that there is already an invisible border around the NPC's face and name. Why not make that border 1-2 pixels thick in the color of the one they're weak to? If you're targeting the brigand, make that border 1 pixel thicker, slightly brighter, and have it (very softly, maybe once every 1-2 seconds) fade from that color to invisible (or just muted) and back.

Additionally, I really like the idea, as shown in the original post, of having the pieces of your current target's weakness being highlighted/different in some way. I would also support a slight color change, or sparkles or something, rather than just the symbols being different, to make them pop in a high-stress situation.

6) Rumble strikes
Forculus wrote: 
patgangster wrote: 
Typically a large strike in rumble contains a few groups of every single color - is any kind of rumble strike containing that color going to possibly cause a masterful booty-stealing strike?
Good question, I'm still thinking about this. It will likely be based on the number of pieces of that color contained in the strike. So if the Brigand is weak to red strikes, your goal would be to include as many red pieces in the strike as possible. Other colors in the strike would not affect your chance of taking an item.
I like this idea, but I would augment it. Make it so that having more groups of, say, red, in your strike is more powerful than simply adding tons of red to a single group. Maybe take the average size of a red group and multiply it by the number of distinct groups it's in. (Just to clarify - this is all part of a single combo. How many different red groups popped in the same combo?)

7) Minimum/Maximum Number of "Greedy"/"Cutthroat" brigands per ship
Forculus wrote: 
These types of pirates will occasionally appear during pillages mixed in among the other enemies, and in increasing numbers based on your pillage's current Booty ramp.
I would hope that even at the lowest levels, you get, at an aboslute bare minimum, at least one "Greedy"/"Cutthroad" brigand every other battle or so. Otherwise, if a greenish officer runs a pillage with his greenish friends, they may never see this mechanic. I would also argue that there is a maximum of about 70% of the opposing brigands that would be "Greedy"/"Cutthroat", with one exception (see below).

8) Expos won at sea idea
This is kind of "throw my ideas at the wall, see if they stick at all". But I had a random idea that any expedition you win while at sea has a significantly increased chance for these brigands. BK's? Make a full ship of Greedy ones! Buried Treasure? Pull the new chests. Shipwreck? Pull the new chests!* Merchant hunt, viking raid, Imperial outposts, 50%+ of opponents are Greedy! (Do VR/IO even spawn while at sea anymore?) When you get Ice Chests from a Yeti expo, you can have a chance to have a few Greedy chests ones mixed in! (The yeti scared the Greedy brigands away and stole their treasure!)

To reiterate: These would *not* apply to charts obtained from Explorer's Halls or Black Boxes.

*I'm not sure how I feel about polluting one of the few sources of non-chest TH... but that's a different topic.

9) Flotilla changes
I haven't been super vocal about this, but I will use this forum to voice my full support for major improvements to flotillas.

10) Trophies
I love trophies. Way, way, way too much. I personally like the idea of having tons and tons of them, and letting each pirate choose to (or not to) get the ones they prefer. Honestly, when I first started playing, the idea of a Diamond Crab Trophy (now long-since old hat) was one of the things that kept me coming back.
a) Shipwide trophies: There should be shipwide trophies associated with these brigands. I like the idea of "total greedy brigands defeated in a fray" and/or "total chests (or chest weight/volume) stolen from greedy brigands", especially since the larger the pillage ship size, the better for those.

b) Personal trophies: I like the idea of "Total number of strikes sent to brigands". Scale it similar to the current strike trophies for SF/Rumble. Either have separate trophies for brigands and barbarians or have a combined trophy chain, scaling SF and Rumble equally (if you'd knock off 1 good prize, it counts the same towards the trophy whether the opponent was a brigand or a barbarian).

c) I really would want more than two/three trophy chains (8-15 total trophies). I am just somewhat at a loss as to what they should be. Maybe (and I really hesitate to suggest this), you could get trophies for trading in the items you win (only if you were the original owner of them)?

11) Switching targets
I personally don't see any problem with allowing an instant "switch to a target and immediately send a huge attack". The risk to counter that reward is that you have no guarantee somebody won't beat you to it and knock the brigand out. But I could be convinced to support a fading in attack, i.e., if you attack 5 seconds after switching, the full attack lands, but if you attack only 2.5 seconds after switching, it's only half as effective.

12) Greedy's favorite colors!
Another "Throw ideas at a wall" idea: Make Greedy brigs/barbs similar to Homunculi in Cursed Isles. That is, if they are attacked and not killed, they send a stronger than normal strike, with more of their favorite color than normal in the strike sent. This could also help be a counter to the "drawing out battles just to get more stuff" idea - if you hit a Greedy one too many times without killing him, you're dead.

13) Maximum strike size
Another counter to the "draw out the melee for a long time so that players can build up specific color attacks" idea: Make it so that only up to X blocks of a color in a single strike can count. Maybe a bingoed 2x4 ish level for swordfighting, and 4 groups of 4 balls each (of the same color) in rumble.

14) Countering early-pillage elitism
Forculus wrote: 
Early in the pillage, when greedy brigands and barbarians are more rare, there may be some amount of exclusion on voyages where only the best swordfighters and rumblers are allowed to target the special brigands.
A few ideas to counter this:
a) During pillages (or maybe just Greedy battles), hide the color of who is attacking whom (but make a different color for swabbies). A ship's captain can't tell who is targeting the Greedy bot, only if that person is a swabbie or a pirate.
b) Make Greedy bots retaliate, and hard. As I mentioned in 12 above - if unskilled players target the Greedy ones too much, they'll die. Fast. Only kind of a counter (players choose not to attack them instead of being ordered not to).
c) Somewhat counterintuitive, perhaps, but: In the first X battles of a pillage, ships with unskilled pirates are actually slightly more likely to encounter Greedies. Some concerns here with alts vs. actual greenies, and concerns with exploitation, but can be countered by only a small increase and only for a few (3-4) battles.
d) Either with or without 14c just above: slight penalty for the first X battles if there are two or more pirates on the ship and they are all "elite". Maybe a message: "Yarr! 2 Greedy brigands aboard this ship fled overboard when they discovered yer ship's strength! Maybe they'll fight ye later." Concerns here with legitimate players, especially mid-level players, triggering this condition too often.

15) General pillaging suggestions
a) Special events: A while ago, there were events once a month or so that had special in-game effects. Some spawned monkeys more often, etc. I would suggest having a rotating special event calendar, where specific types of expeditions are more likely to be won on specific days. Make yeti/merchant hunt (unobtainable in any other way) more frequent than the others. Spread out days so that it's not always "well, the weekends are <type> expo, and I really don't like <type>." Maybe a monthly calendar: 1st of month, TH expos. 2nd of month, yeti, etc. The 25th-end of each month could be simply "double expo rates".
b) Unique items. This may be covered in the Greedy suggestion, but one of the reasons I think pillaging is less common is that, other than VR/IO trinkets and yeti portraits, there is NOTHING obtainable in a pillage that cannot be obtained in other ways. Pillaging, like SMH's, need its own pets, familiars, furniture, clothes, its own color, etc.
c) More expeditions. This is a good thing and a bad thing - more expos makes existing ones, especially Merchants and yetis, rarer. But more types of expeditions means more potential for fun! In a "throw stuff at the wall, see what sticks" vein, what if we removed (or, at least, significantly reduced) the chance for BK, VR, and IO expos from pillages, since they can be reliably obtained elsewhere? That way, the more fun* expos are pillaging-only, and more common.
d) Difficulty/risk. For me, every single opponent I battle navigate against acts the same (excluding BK's), assuming the same ship size. At least, it seems that way to me. There is no real difference in battle navigation difficulty, only in how hard they'll destroy me in the fray. Make battle navigation actually harder as you get better. I don't know how... but somehow. Maybe a new, pillaging-specific, obstacle on the bnav board, that appears more frequently with harder ships? Similarly, as mentioned by Liandra1 earlier, put the ship at risk of sinking for higher rewards. (Not too much higher, as good navvers already regularly avoid anywhere near sinking damage, don't just give them an automatic huge pay boost.)
e) Individual prizes. No matter how well a ship does pillaging, nobody aboard wins anything specific except PoE (and possibly expo trinkets). Anybody lazing on an Atlantis run, even if they're planked 30 minutes in, has a chance at a rare familiar.
f) On rough seas, auto-port. If a pillage (or SMH, etc.) has been going on a while, and the servers themselves go down, port, rather than losing all the booty. Maybe take a cut of the booty, but don't lose it all.
g) Unique (and usable and necessary) commodities.
xelto wrote: 
While not directly tied to Greedy Brigands, I like the thought of this. Kraken blood used to be something special that pillages had, but it became less special when kraken lairs came out. Adding in a couple commodities that can only be acquired through pillaging (one rare and valuable, like ivory, and one more common one, like leather) would be a nice touch.


*When I say "more fun", I mostly mean "more rare." Usually, if a pillage runner wants to do VR's/IO's, he or she will buy bunches of them ahead of time, and do only them. I personally did this quite a bit around Sealpocalypse time...

16) Greedy treasure "bar".
When you are protecting somebody in rumble, there is a bar, above the box of your "target", that fills based on how much you are protecting them. Why not make a similar concept for the Greedy brigands? Have a bar (in the color of their choice) that will fill as they're hit with that color, and slowly dwindle (either over time, or as they send attacks). When the bar is full, they drop their treasure, then retaliate hard to the living pirate who hurt them the most. How fast the bar fills could determine the rarity of their drop (within reason - don't let a ship full of insta-kill swordfighters win everything).

17) Max treasure per Greedy
Yet another counter to the "draw out the melee for a long time so that players can build up specific color attacks" idea: Each Greedy spawns with a certain number of gems next to them. As they drop treasure, the number of gems next to them dwindles. The bigger the treasure, the more gems drop. When the gems are gone, they either turn into a normal brigand, or not, but don't drop any more treasure. Note: It is possible for a Greedy to die without dropping all their treasure (hit too hard at once, hit with the wrong color, sprinkled to death, etc.).

Side note: This is another way to fine-tune scaling. Instead of a rough (e.g. 1 Greedy vs 2 Greedy), you could be more granular (e.g. 1 Greedy, 4 gems vs 2 Greedy, 5 gems).

Side note 2: The gems could be randomly distributed among the Greedies (if there are 3 Greedies, and 10 gems, one could have 7, one 2, and one only 1!), with a minimum of 1 per Greedy. This could allow different strategies, especially for elites. "Hey, Greedy Bianca has a ton of treasure! We need to take turns hitting her so that we can take all her treasure without dying! But we have to be careful not to knock her out the first time...."

18) Non-linear scale
majestrate wrote: 
[Have] the rewards begin to decline at a certain player ship strength. Maybe something that better rewards the mid-level pillagers instead of the "elite" pillagers. Unfortunately, that makes it very susceptible to exploitation.
Make the ramp decline at higher levels. 3 elites vs. 6 elites won't get you much more stuff (each), but 3 mid-range vs. 6 mid-range will.

Edit: 19) Cutthroat/Greedy marks
There could be a new "currency", similar to rogue marks, only obtainable from these "Greedy"/"Cutthroat" chests. You could trade in a certain number to get some prizes.
Implementation 1: Store
A store idea is really nice. You can't shop for, say, a specific color of trinket, or even a specific trinket, but only for a single trinket of a specific rarity. Some examples of what I'm thinking:
* Common trinket: X marks. Uncommon trinket: Y marks. Rare trinket: Z marks. Same concept for furniture and clothing. However, keep the "mythic rare" (rarest) ones only directly winnable.
* Designs for clothing, ships, shipboard furniture, regular furniture.
* Chromas. (Make this one fairly pricey. We want it to be an obtainable goal for a greenie, but we don't want the fiasco that indigo chromas currently are.)
* NO pets or familiars should be available this way.

Implementation 2: Ingredient
Alternately, make the marks rarer, and use them directly as ingredients in multiple items' recipes. Make a "Cutthroat class sloop" require X marks, "Cutthroat crown" cost 50. Basically, this is the same concept as a design, except that the same item could be directly used in making a ship, or in making a coat.

Either way, this could be another personal trophy (win x marks, y marks, etc.).

Edit: instead of marks, they could be gems. This would make a lot more sense in terms of it being an ingredient, and using different colors of gems could have real effects in the new item (if you use all green gems, your sloop has all green. If you use a mix of green, gold, and black in your crown, your crown has a mix of those). Downside to calling them gems: Namespace competition with the existing gems that you forage. Totally crazy idea could even be to incorporate those existing gems somehow....





Edits: Mostly minor clarification edits, or fixing my grammar.

You made it to the end of this post! Congratulations! I'm sorry for the novel.... ....okay, not sorry. This focus on pillaging, and the idea of the Greedies, is really awesome. And feedback was specifically requested, so I gave it. Hopefully at least some of it is useful.
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[Edit 12 times, last edit by jlh0605 at Jul 27, 2016 1:17:44 PM]
[Jul 27, 2016 11:20:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link]  Go to top 
patgangster

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Whoa, that's a big post with a pretty good amount of valid points. Most of them seem good, especially the marks part, I like the idea of some sort of currency being involved. Although...

 
Or, alternately, divvying the booty needs to not reset booty ramp. If an elite loaded sloop could pull 35-45 chests per battle, 10 battles, plus some buried treasure expos, plus stock, plus the fruit you win, and that hull fills very quickly.

No. Removing booty ramp reset would allow people to remove pretty much every bit of risk from pillaging by divvying after every battle.

 
13) Maximum strike size
Another counter to the "draw out the melee for a long time so that players can build up specific color attacks" idea: Make it so that only up to X blocks of a color in a single strike can count. Maybe a bingoed 2x4 ish level for swordfighting, and 4 groups of 4 balls each (of the same color) in rumble.

Don't like this either. If I instakill that greedy brigand in mainly red I want to see a pretty much guaranteed treasure popout, not possible reward equal to a hit that fills a third of their board.
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Akshajjain



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Hi, First of all i think the update is super awesome and i slept over it and have some suggestions.
1) Elitist:
The game has already been ruined due to the elitist nature of SMHs and i don't think it needs to be any more elitist, to counter this new elitism in pillys, u can make the greedy brigand/barb steal thing completely random or pseudo random.
2) NO TRINKETS/FURNITURE etc please:
trinkets already come from BKs in pillys and yet so few people take the pain to do them and even the trinkets and furniture from the SMHs have turned valueless. i imagine if more trinkets/furni come in pillages, it'll just turn valueless over time like the SMHs' furni/trinkets have.
3) Ships as a rewards:
Introduce new classes of ships, possibly Overpowered or just kinda weird like 2 turn movement, 7 people needed, fires large cbs. Now every time u steal from a brigand, he'll give u a part of the ship and in the trading post, u can exchange the parts for a direct Ship(no designs etc. plz, it'll not help any Noobs),the parts etc. absolutely cannot be trade able, and the ships are trade able, this will set the market value of the ships at a high rate, at which rate people just think its useless to buy those ships but this will also encourage everyone to go get the parts and get their own ship for free by pillaging!
Side note: this'll unlock new tactics in blockading which we haven't seen in a long time.
4)Flotilla:
I definitely endorse the much needed update for flotilla
5) Missions suggestion:
Just like you guys have did it in spiral knights, there could be a mission tab where we could do specific missions, if i remember correctly in spiral knights this made the game much more fun to play! Also like if u introduce missions and rewards system, it'll be much more helpful for greenies!
Thanks for reading!
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Akshajjain at Jul 27, 2016 8:11:28 PM]
[Jul 27, 2016 7:48:15 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ryujinpp

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jlh0605 wrote: 
1) Booty Ramp
a) Shipwide: As Forculus mentioned, going purely off of win/loss record is exploitable. But as lots of people also mentioned, going purely off of booty ramp is fickle at best, time consuming at a minimum, and frustrating for sure.
Forculus wrote: 
I will look into using the suggested win/loss history rather than the difficulty ramp. I agree that allowing pirates changes during the pillage would be preferable. One downside however is that this could introduce an exploit, where after reaching the max spawn rate of Greedy brigands, players shuffle around their jobbers to reset the difficulty. This would allow maximum reward with minimal risk. Maybe a combination of the two systems would work.
I have an idea here, but it's hard to describe. Forculus, you mentioned a "max spawn rate of Greedy brigands". I would say that this number should scale based on shipwide difficulty/might. If you hit this max with strong pirates, and suddenly half of the strong pirates leave, this max spawn rate would also be cut in half. If suddenly all those strong pirates get back on board, the max spawn rate goes back to its previous value. If overall shipwide strength goes down, the maximum winnable treasure from "Greedy" brigands also goes down.

"One downside however is that this could introduce an exploit, where after reaching the max spawn rate of Greedy brigands, players shuffle around their jobbers to reset the difficulty."

mebbe i'm dense or my brain aint working but i failed to see how it could be exploited...
is it something like this?

Bnaver A and Bnaver B collaborates and load their own pillages at the same time.. after x battles, Bnaver A's ship reaches max spawn, so he asks Bnaver B to swap 3 strong (or weak) pirates over in exchange fer 3 weak (or strong) pirates

both bnavers then select 3 pirates on their vessel, telling them that another bnaver will be sending them a jobbing offer and that they should accept it

like that?

if i'm having a good time on a ship with one bnaver (presumably winning great loot from greedies), why would i want to get transferred to another ship which i have no clue how they fare?

just couldnt see the logic nor the exploit
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Jakeyboy1986



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Just an idea, have the developers ever thought about a 'rent a pirate' scheme? With the oceans ever decreasing, it has never been harder to fill pillys, especially larger ones. If there was an option to hire swabbies that can achieve good+ for a cost, more people might be inclined to ditch the poker table in favour of grabbing that out war brig/frig out?

Just a thought :)
[Jul 28, 2016 3:47:29 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sagacious

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Just an idea, have the developers ever thought about a 'rent a pirate' scheme? With the oceans ever decreasing, it has never been harder to fill pillys, especially larger ones. If there was an option to hire swabbies that can achieve good+ for a cost, more people might be inclined to ditch the poker table in favour of grabbing that out war brig/frig out?

Just a thought :)

I think this has been suggested before and the danger is that newer players who perform worse than these swabbies may be excluded from voyages in favour of more consistent performance from these swabbies.
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[Jul 28, 2016 4:47:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
TexasBeesh

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I am just really happy something is being done for pillages. I enjoy them more than SMHs. So yay! Thank you all!
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[Jul 28, 2016 6:37:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gorillabuddy

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Just an idea, have the developers ever thought about a 'rent a pirate' scheme? With the oceans ever decreasing, it has never been harder to fill pillys, especially larger ones. If there was an option to hire swabbies that can achieve good+ for a cost, more people might be inclined to ditch the poker table in favour of grabbing that out war brig/frig out?

Just a thought :)

I think this has been suggested before and the danger is that newer players who perform worse than these swabbies may be excluded from voyages in favour of more consistent performance from these swabbies.


I think there could be a number of ways to get around it. Maybe make hiring 1 good swabbie free, the next one take a 4% booty cut, the next take an 8% cut, then 16%, and so on. The percentages could be adjusted, of course, but the idea would be that you could hire enough good swabbies to run a pilly, but it wouldn't be worth it to hire more than a few.

Hiring pirates could also give booty bonuses. Maybe 20% per greenie and 10% per non-greenie.
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[Jul 28, 2016 8:35:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sagacious

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I think there could be a number of ways to get around it. Maybe make hiring 1 good swabbie free, the next one take a 4% booty cut, the next take an 8% cut, then 16%, and so on. The percentages could be adjusted, of course, but the idea would be that you could hire enough good swabbies to run a pilly, but it wouldn't be worth it to hire more than a few.

Hiring pirates could also give booty bonuses. Maybe 20% per greenie and 10% per non-greenie.

Sort-of like this. I'd like to be able to take out larger ships on pillages without them running short of jobbers so easily.
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[Jul 28, 2016 8:46:22 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jlh0605

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ryujinpp wrote: 
Forculus wrote: 
I will look into using the suggested win/loss history rather than the difficulty ramp. I agree that allowing pirates changes during the pillage would be preferable. One downside however is that this could introduce an exploit, where after reaching the max spawn rate of Greedy brigands, players shuffle around their jobbers to reset the difficulty. This would allow maximum reward with minimal risk. Maybe a combination of the two systems would work.
mebbe i'm dense or my brain aint working but i failed to see how it could be exploited...
is it something like this?

Bnaver A and Bnaver B collaborates and load their own pillages at the same time.. after x battles, Bnaver A's ship reaches max spawn, so he asks Bnaver B to swap 3 strong (or weak) pirates over in exchange fer 3 weak (or strong) pirates
Basically this. Once you get to the max "greedy brigand" level, whatever that ends up being, you then can lower your ship's might ring a lot, then you still get "max greedy brigands" with much, much lower battle difficulty. As far as how you lower the might ring, there are many ways, including what you said, but even more simply, just bringing low-level alts of pirates who were already aboard.

Patgangster wrote: 
No. Removing booty ramp reset would allow people to remove pretty much every bit of risk from pillaging by divvying after every battle.
I'd forgotten to consider it from this point of view. For me, pillaging has basically always been a very low-risk operation. I also did some math, and realized that if you are willing to trash bulky, low-value goods (wood, some fruit), you could actually go well over 50 battles before a sloop's hold would be full. So, consider my point of view changed on this one.

Patgangster wrote: 
Jamesh wrote: 
13) Maximum strike size
Another counter to the "draw out the melee for a long time so that players can build up specific color attacks" idea: Make it so that only up to X blocks of a color in a single strike can count. Maybe a bingoed 2x4 ish level for swordfighting, and 4 groups of 4 balls each (of the same color) in rumble.
Don't like this either. If I instakill that greedy brigand in mainly red I want to see a pretty much guaranteed treasure pop out, not possible reward equal to a hit that fills a third of their board.
Fair point. The only reason I even suggested it was as a counter to the "draw out the melee", but I liked my other suggestions for that better. This was kind of a "I don't like the idea, but maybe it *could* work" suggestion. NOT having this could actually incentivize newer players to try to make bigger strikes, which is a good thing.

Akshajjain wrote: 
3) Ships as a rewards:
Introduce new classes of ships, possibly Overpowered or just kinda weird like 2 turn movement, 7 people needed, fires large cbs. Now every time u steal from a brigand, he'll give u a part of the ship and in the trading post, u can exchange the parts for a direct Ship(no designs etc. plz, it'll not help any Noobs),the parts etc. absolutely cannot be trade able, and the ships are trade able, this will set the market value of the ships at a high rate, at which rate people just think its useless to buy those ships but this will also encourage everyone to go get the parts and get their own ship for free by pillaging!
Side note: this'll unlock new tactics in blockading which we haven't seen in a long time.
I absolutely, without question or hesitation, disagree with this for several reasons. First, I strongly disagree with making "Overpowered" ships or ships that function differently (extra moves, larger shot, etc.) The classes of ships we have are there for a reason. They are (at least somewhat) balanced, and adding weird ships like this will only throw off that balance very quickly. Second, trading in directly for a ship is a big problem. Part of what makes Puzzle Pirates so unique is a player-run economy. If nobody on the ocean is making ships, nobody can buy ships. Making ships available without having to buy them is just a NO for so many economic reasons. Third, with regards to "this will also encourage everyone to go get ... their own ship for free by pillaging," you already can! Anything that gives you PoE can, if you earn enough, get you a ship. It's just as "free" that way as it would be by trading in those pieces. Fourth and finally, with regards to blockading with new ships - blockading is exactly the reason why the ships need to be balanced. Add new ship types like this, and within a month, the richest island-owning pirates will own a fleet of these new ships, further elite-izing the already problematic blockade scene. Just ... no.

Akshajjain wrote: 
5) Missions suggestion:
Just like you guys have did it in spiral knights, there could be a mission tab where we could do specific missions, if i remember correctly in spiral knights this made the game much more fun to play! Also like if u introduce missions and rewards system, it'll be much more helpful for greenies!
There is already a mission tab. It allows you to play any duty puzzle for free with the navy (provided you meet minimum requirements for some of them), swordfight/drink/rumble with brigands, and to play whatever crafting puzzle is free that day. Did you have ideas for other missions? That could be really cool.

The problem with comparing Puzzle Pirates missions to Spiral Knights missions is that Spiral Knights missions are basically "go clear this dungeon." "Clearing dungeons" is the entire point of Spiral Knights. Everything else is just to help you "clear dungeons" better, faster, with friends, etc. In Puzzle Pirates, there is no single end goal, but multiple. Players can try to get rank/experience up, or they can try to run pillages, or try to run SMHs, or try to run flotillas, or try to collect items, or try to get trophies, or try to play poker, or even try to govern an island! You can't really make missions for each of these, especially since so many parts of Pirates absolutely require other pirates to participate.

Again, all that being said, if you have ideas for new missions that are relevant to Puzzle Pirates, I'd love to hear them.

Jakeyboy1986 wrote: 
Just an idea, have the developers ever thought about a 'rent a pirate' scheme?
I personally really don't like this idea. I agree with Sagacious that this might "exclude [newer players] from voyages in favour of more consistent performance from these swabbies."

Jakeyboy1986 wrote: 
If there was an option to hire swabbies that can achieve good+ for a cost, more people might be inclined to ditch the poker table in favour of grabbing that out war brig/frig out?
Playing devil's advocate here: as long as you have one or two good gunners, you can actually run a war brig pillage with as few as about 10 pirates, even if all but the gunners are brand new. In the rare case where I feel like not playing solo, this is what I usually do.

TexasBeesh wrote: 
I am just really happy something is being done for pillages. I enjoy them more than SMHs. So yay! Thank you all!
SECONDED! :)
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[Jul 28, 2016 9:07:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link]  Go to top 
Altich

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Maybe it would be good if dnav also played a role at finding greedy brigands. Have an option to "search for greedy brigands", where good dnaving will result in more of them spawning (combined with the booty ramp and the other suggestions).
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Maybe it would be good if dnav also played a role at finding greedy brigands. Have an option to "search for greedy brigands", where good dnaving will result in more of them spawning (combined with the booty ramp and the other suggestions).
Maybe, instead of a new voyage setting, this could be incorporated into the existing pillaging settings - if you set your pillaging "range" high, and dnav well, greedy brigands spawn more often.

Great idea.
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xelto

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Maybe it would be good if dnav also played a role at finding greedy brigands. Have an option to "search for greedy brigands", where good dnaving will result in more of them spawning (combined with the booty ramp and the other suggestions).
Maybe, instead of a new voyage setting, this could be incorporated into the existing pillaging settings - if you set your pillaging "range" high, and dnav well, greedy brigands spawn more often.

Great idea.

I like the concept of dnav helping with spawning them, but I don't think that you would need to up the pillage difficulty settings. If we go with the concept that quantity is determined by win/loss record, and challenge/reward is determined by the difficulty of the brigands faced, then the payoff level will naturally move up with a higher difficulty. Trying quantity to dnav allows novice trips to take advantage of this feature, not just elite runs.
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altheacat



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Hi Forculus!

First, thank you for thinking up a new idea for this fantastic game. Second, thank you for sharing it with us! It makes things much more fun and much, much more exciting.

When I started playing, in 2006, pillaging was the core of the game. As a new player, not only could I earn poes, always a good thing, but also I could develop puzzling skills by learning directly ( talking to them ) or indirectly ( learning about videos ), from other players. I jobbed a fair bit and joined a crew and made great friends and became part of a family. This is what kept me playing for 10 years.

Then came SMH. At the start this was like a fun pillage, just on big ships ( although back in 2006 you could join GF pillies, ahhh the good old days! ). Gradually, SMH became more elite. Once I even had to SF a pirate nominated by the OIC before I could stay on the SMH ( I was planked in port as I wasn't good enough !!!! ). Now of course, what with the falling population and my slightly improved skills and my lovely hearties, I would be welcome on an SMH I think.

My point is that I am very afraid the new feature of greedy brigands will immediately turn pillaging into yet another elite feature of the game instead of reviving what makes this so much fun, i.e. going out to sea with mates. I've read this thread carefully and really can't see how one can avoid the creeping elitism that has ruined everything bar blockades and flotillas.

I would also like to support the poster who said that having to spend too long on any form of sea adventure is a no no for him. I note that most posts assume an increasing number of the new brigands being a function of the time spent at sea. Given that most pillages spawn a new enemy in around 10 minutes and most sea battles last upwards of 10 minutes, I can see comments on the NB saying " don't apply if you can't stay for 90 minutes/2 hours.. etc... Even with dnav ( ewww ), you can't realistically expect to get much more than 3 battles an hour and I see people are worrying about holds being full, suggest you can trash some contents and look forward to 50 sea battles, which would mean several hours of insane game playing!

Lovely idea but I worry about elitism and time spent in game. Neither would attract and retain new player, in my opinion.

As far as new rewards go, I don't honestly care, so won't vote for anything except maybe "vouchers" giving players the option to "buy" items, be it clothes, weapons, furniture, ships, whatever, but at reduced dub prices. This would stimulate the economy, encourage new players to collect items, and be rather fun to try and win in battle.
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patgangster

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I'm not really going to speak of the elitism factors but

 
As far as new rewards go, I don't honestly care, so won't vote for anything except maybe "vouchers" giving players the option to "buy" items, be it clothes, weapons, furniture, ships, whatever, but at reduced dub prices. This would stimulate the economy, encourage new players to collect items, and be rather fun to try and win in battle.


This idea is very interesting. It'd have to be handled carefully though (don't want all us rich pirates greatly lowering the amount of dubs spent because we buy every sword/bludgeon/clothing we need on discount.) They'd probably have to be untradable and possibly pretty uncommon.

I'd love to see it though! Maybe pick 2-3 weapons of each type, 2-3 clothing items for each body part for each gender and the sloop and hand out a few vouchers for these. Players could exchange one voucher per purchase (It could use a similar interface as the design-requiring items do) which would give them, say, 25% lowered dub cost on the sloop. A female Feathered hat for one doubloon less (2 instead of 3 on non dubcost increasing colors) or a sleeping cap for one less (1 instead of 2 on default cost)
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[Jul 28, 2016 4:34:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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I'm not really going to speak of the elitism factors but

 
As far as new rewards go, I don't honestly care, so won't vote for anything except maybe "vouchers" giving players the option to "buy" items, be it clothes, weapons, furniture, ships, whatever, but at reduced dub prices. This would stimulate the economy, encourage new players to collect items, and be rather fun to try and win in battle.

This idea is very interesting. It'd have to be handled carefully though (don't want all us rich pirates greatly lowering the amount of dubs spent because we buy every sword/bludgeon/clothing we need on discount.) They'd probably have to be untradable and possibly pretty uncommon.

Either that or not overpowering. For clothing, say, have designs for a "pirate shirt", which is a plain shirt with a skull and crossbones pattern on it. Lasts 30 days, no dubs unless it's in black, gold, or purple. Basically a plain shirt with a pattern on it. That would be an acceptable reward, the lack of delivery fees isn't an issue. You only want to keep it uncommon so that it remains a real reward, and not yet another junk item cluttering up the inventory.

(Side note: it's probably not worth the programming time, but adding a "dynamic spawn" to certain items would alleviate this. That is if less than 5% of the items dust unused, increase spawn rates. If more than 20% dust, decrease spawn rate. But I digress.)

For swords, having a dustable backsword--again, with a short lifespan--isn't overpowered, but you have to admit they look impressive, especially to greenies. Having an unlimited edition sloop, brig, and maybe a few other ships, similar to the Atlantis or cursed class ships (no additional dub fees) also works.

Once you have a few non dub/sub items, also adding a new piece of clothing of higher quality, with reasonable delivery fees, won't seem like a blatant cash grab-- just like there is also a premium option. Just keep it rare (or accessible via trinket trade in) so that we're not swimming in them, either.
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Akshajjain



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ryujinpp wrote: 

Akshajjain wrote: 
5) Missions suggestion:
Just like you guys have did it in spiral knights, there could be a mission tab where we could do specific missions, if i remember correctly in spiral knights this made the game much more fun to play! Also like if u introduce missions and rewards system, it'll be much more helpful for greenies!
There is already a mission tab. It allows you to play any duty puzzle for free with the navy (provided you meet minimum requirements for some of them), swordfight/drink/rumble with brigands, and to play whatever crafting puzzle is free that day. Did you have ideas for other missions? That could be really cool.
The problem with comparing Puzzle Pirates missions to Spiral Knights missions is that Spiral Knights missions are basically "go clear this dungeon." "Clearing dungeons" is the entire point of Spiral Knights. Everything else is just to help you "clear dungeons" better, faster, with friends, etc. In Puzzle Pirates, there is no single end goal, but multiple. Players can try to get rank/experience up, or they can try to run pillages, or try to run SMHs, or try to run flotillas, or try to collect items, or try to get trophies, or try to play poker, or even try to govern an island! You can't really make missions for each of these, especially since so many parts of Pirates absolutely require other pirates to participate.
Again, all that being said, if you have ideas for new missions that are relevant to Puzzle Pirates, I'd love to hear them.





Well i do have some suggestions and the current mission system almost seems like non-existent to me, there could be many missions and the reward should be not just the navy rank but mainstream items that we need like bravery badge,sloops,pets Etc.
The missions can be kill all the brigand king once(each) and the reward for this could be the bravery badge as technically this makes sense, the guy is brave coz he dared to kill all the brigands,thus he gets a bravery badge.
many more missions like mem this archipelago etc. can be put in but the greatest suggestions for missions can also be put in by the community!The current mission system is at the most barnacle which no one cares about, the rewards should be increased.
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Akshaj on emerald
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Akshajjain at Jul 28, 2016 8:22:36 PM]
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XBumble

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Brilliant to hear this!

I still pilly on the sub ocean regularly as it's my favourite part of the game.

As for rewards, maybe it could be special stuff like deeds to one of the old LE ships thus giving people a chance (a small chance!) or getting one they missed.

Maybe also there could be dubs to be won on dub oceas, or other similar for the sub ocean. Would have to be very rare of course, but the chance to win those would prove exciting.
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Captain of The Wreckin' Crew - Kirin Island, Cerulean Ocean.

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by XBumble at Jul 29, 2016 6:24:48 AM]
[Jul 29, 2016 6:23:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
GreatBob

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What's on your Pillaging wishlist? Any particular change or improvement that you think would make a big difference?


First and foremost is changing the AI. Pillaging is supposed to be between two ships who want to fight, the enemy shouldn't have such a high chance of making a "retreat" move. While I'd be happiest with the pre BK blockade AI being reintroduced, any modifications to increase predictability and aggressiveness would be very welcome.

Stop weighing SF/Rumble stats so heavily in Might calculation. While most highly ranked players will be good in a fray, not all mid/low ranked players are bad in one (especially with lower populations making higher ratings hard to achieve). I'm not sure what to replace it with though, as the Sea Battle stat (which was designed to deal with exactly this) tends to be deemed "too elitist". Adding more weight to calibration matches falls apart when you have personnel changes throughout a voyage and can lead to some real rubber-band difficulty changes.

Stabilize the payouts between brigands and barbarians. This would likely mean separating payouts and difficulty, but let us have the separate difficulty ramp without destroying payouts for changing who we fight. Ok, so some fights would reward more than they do now, but as long as it's based on ability of the crew to defeat that type of enemy, does it *really* matter?


I'm sure there's plenty more, thank you Forculus for the work you're doing!
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[Jul 29, 2016 8:16:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Forculus
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Some really great suggestions here, I've been reading through everything and taking it into account as I continue developing this new feature. A few quick comments:

bailet wrote: 
Also, just a side note, would it be possible to open up ice for everyone for this update? It is important that this is balanced for larger ships, and we cannot fill more than one or two sloops on ice.

jlh0605 wrote: 
As Bailet said, it would be nice to have Ice open to everybody for this test (and have that fact advertised in-game on the Notice Board at least). I don't know the technical details in doing that, but it would be nice to test properly on AT LEAST a war brig.

I'll open Ice up to everyone for a portion of the testing so we can try and get some larger ships out pillaging.

ruined_ashes wrote: 
All I have to say that I think is the most important, is please don't make it just for elites. Elites already have so much in game.

altheacat wrote: 
Lovely idea but I worry about elitism and time spent in game. Neither would attract and retain new player, in my opinion.

Quite a few people have voiced this concern, and we definitely want this new content to be open and accessible to everyone. I'd be interested to hear some more discussion on this, and ways you think it could be avoided. I've added a bonus for bringing along greenies on the pillage.

ruined_ashes wrote: 
Also, trophies! more than 3-5 tier trophies would be awesome.

jlh0605 wrote: 
There should be shipwide trophies associated with these brigands. I like the idea of "total greedy brigands defeated in a fray" and/or "total chests (or chest weight/volume) stolen from greedy brigands", especially since the larger the pillage ship size, the better for those.

I'd really like to implement a good variety of trophies, but are players going to start screening their pillaging jobbers based on some of these new trophies?

Meehearties wrote: 
Some people mentioned how to identify which colour the greedy brigands are susceptible to and Forculus you mentioned adding an identifier for it but you hadn't decided where to place it yet...How about making it as simple as each greedy brigand is wearing an item of jewellery that has a gem in the colour they are susceptible to attacks from?

This is a really good suggestion, unfortunately there are some limitations related to the customization and recoloring system that kept it from being possible. The way it's working now is that the background color of their mini-boards (next to their face icons) will indicate which color they're weak against. Once you've stolen their treasure, the board color will switch back to normal. This makes it pretty easy to take a quick glance at the side of the puzzle board and see where you want to focus your attacks.

Meehearties wrote: 
I say we use silver as the primary colour to give a marked distinction and not have it look like gold box items.

I passed this suggestion along to the artists, and they really liked it, so it's likely that you'll be seeing a new special silver color with this content.

saintdiana wrote: 
this "powerful strike" seems like a good way to confuse and frustrate new players. i don't know anyone who turns to the "how to play" section instead of asking someone who may or may not (think they) know the answer, and also there are so many veteran sprinklers about.

You can still take treasure from them with small strikes, just at a reduced chance. So even new players who might not know how everything works can still be helpful and win treasure during the melees.

Nyrios wrote: 
meanwhile im going to go see if i find some greedy brigands ^^

I'd like to get an initial test version out on Ice in the next 1-2 weeks. It wouldn't have the new treasure rewards yet (the art for that is still in progress), so I'll set it up to give a random SMH treasure chest.

ryujinpp wrote: 
Regarding chest/box concept as drops from greedy brigands/barbs...

I would like to very very very much request for the followings:
1. that chest/box drops contains strictly no Poe but just items;
2. that there is absolutely NO box/chest being set aside for vessel owner

Could you discuss some of your reasoning for #1?

Altich wrote: 
Keep working to make puzzle pirates a better game and restore its former glory Forculus! You have my support.

Thank you! Your support is much appreciated.

jlh0605 wrote: 
I suggest that prizes won are given to the ship as chests. In order for this to be even remotely fair to all players, the number of chests would need to be relatively large.

This is a good suggestion, and is likely how it will be implemented.

jlh0605 wrote: 
Additionally, I really like the idea, as shown in the original post, of having the pieces of your current target's weakness being highlighted/different in some way. I would also support a slight color change, or sparkles or something, rather than just the symbols being different, to make them pop in a high-stress situation.

We're making some further updates to the alternate puzzle piece art, so that the special fused blocks will stand out a bit more while puzzling.

Akshajjain wrote: 
2) NO TRINKETS/FURNITURE etc please

If you could trade them in at the trading post for a guaranteed amount of PoE, would that help? The difficulty with not including any trinkets is that the average value of each treasure chest jumps way up, and therefore we have to make them much less common to keep the economy balanced. Hopefully if we include some interesting trade-in options at the Trading Post, it will allow the treasure chest drops to be pretty frequent, and yet still have some value no matter what you get.
[Jul 30, 2016 2:16:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Crazymg

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I'll open Ice up to everyone for a portion of the testing so we can try and get some larger ships out pillaging.
Woo! When it's open for all if anyone's ever short on a gunner or trying to fill a large ship, feel free to poke me on emerald if i'm not already there, I can be on any time between 1pm-7am gametime.

 
I'd really like to implement a good variety of trophies, but are players going to start screening their pillaging jobbers based on some of these new trophies?
If the trophies are able to be awarded more ship-wide rather than individual, it could be avoided? Been on ships that have defeated X amount of greedy brigands rather than defeated X amount amount of greedy brigands or something.

 
Meehearties wrote: 
I say we use silver as the primary colour to give a marked distinction and not have it look like gold box items.

I passed this suggestion along to the artists, and they really liked it, so it's likely that you'll be seeing a new special silver color with this content.

I love silver. Any chance some some new silver daintier tiaras? ;)

 
I'd like to get an initial test version out on Ice in the next 1-2 weeks. It wouldn't have the new treasure rewards yet (the art for that is still in progress), so I'll set it up to give a random SMH treasure chest.
Will the inital test be available for all or are you going to make me wait even longer? :P (As much as I'd like to continually support the game it's just not feasible at the moment in time)

 
Altich wrote: 
Keep working to make puzzle pirates a better game and restore its former glory Forculus! You have my support.

Thank you! Your support is much appreciated.

You've been doing a wonderful job! Your presence in the forums, listening to us and giving us our feasible wants even the small ones; it's great.
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~Princessmg~
[Jul 30, 2016 4:25:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ryujinpp

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I'd really like to implement a good variety of trophies, but are players going to start screening their pillaging jobbers based on some of these new trophies?
highly doubtful cos pillage is an inclusive activity unless one is running an elite pillage in which case they would probably be looking at puzzles stats & rumble/sf strike trophies

moreover, trophies awarded shipwide tells nothing abt a player's skill rather than having jobbed on ships which won them the trophy.. just like the diamond sloop trophy fer example, it doesnt means that one who has it is very good at sloop pillage but rather having done a crapload of them lol

the kraken's One-eyed Jack, Flailing Flan, Deviled Eggs & Hard Boiled are skill related trophies which show if one is able to collect eggs which allows elitism to creep in at the beginning, but eventually fade off over time when everyone have had done enough krakens to finally get them

so long as they are participation related trophies rather than skill related ones, it should be fine
 
I'd like to get an initial test version out on Ice in the next 1-2 weeks. It wouldn't have the new treasure rewards yet (the art for that is still in progress), so I'll set it up to give a random SMH treasure chest.
i think this is a great idea.. just to iron out preliminary bugs, the more testing the better
 
ryujinpp wrote: 
Regarding chest/box concept as drops from greedy brigands/barbs...

I would like to very very very much request for the followings:
1. that chest/box drops contains strictly no Poe but just items;
2. that there is absolutely NO box/chest being set aside for vessel owner

Could you discuss some of your reasoning for #1?
on regular pillage, the bnaver makes more than jobbers from restock cut unless the bnav went very badly and often resulting in early grapple before damaging the brigand/barb enough

i believe the divvy mechanics take a cut on chests containing poe, which explains how we get poe in main hold after divvy from HS, CI, atlantis, & kraken

i really would like to see the game reward jobbers equally fer a change, considering the non-sinking risk nature of pillaging.. no need to buy special map, no need to move ship to where the map is located

existing restock cut should suffice.. no need to make everyone scramble to load fer the lucrative cut on jobber's chests
 
Akshajjain wrote: 
2) NO TRINKETS/FURNITURE etc please
If you could trade them in at the trading post for a guaranteed amount of PoE, would that help? The difficulty with not including any trinkets is that the average value of each treasure chest jumps way up, and therefore we have to make them much less common to keep the economy balanced. Hopefully if we include some interesting trade-in options at the Trading Post, it will allow the treasure chest drops to be pretty frequent, and yet still have some value no matter what you get.
even useless trinkets is better than plain poe outright from the chests which are subjected to restock cut.. those who doesnt want those trinkets can easily trade them in fer poe (more benefit to jobbers) at the reworked trading post
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Galene tells ye, "You crashed me 6 times!"

Ryujin on all oceans
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