• Play
  • About
  • News
  • Forums
  • Yppedia
  • Help
Welcome Guest   | Login
  Index  | Recent Threads  | Register  | Search  | Help  | RSS feeds  | View Unanswered Threads  
  Search  


Quick Go »
Thread Status: Normal
Total posts in this thread: 83
Posts: 83   Pages: 3   [ First Page | 1 2 3 | Next Page | Last Page]
[Add To My Favorites] [Watch this Thread] [Post new Thread]
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 25840 times and has 82 replies Next Thread
majestrate

Member's Avatar


Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Posts: 3958
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Sorry PTG, I don't see your logic. Unless the root of your position is that we need to wipe everything from everyone to force a reboot of the economy.

Even if a server wipe were the miracle of miracles, it's pointless. Because within a few years, we'd be back to having the same argument we are now. How to breathe life back into the game.

If anything drastic were going to happen, it would need to start with destroying buildings and uncolonizing islands. Figure that out, then try it and see what the effects are. If that doesn't work, figure out the next thing to try.

A server wipe should be the last resort, because after that, you can't test any other possible solutions.
----------------------------------------
#TeamEvil
Marto wrote: 
We can't rely on majestrate he yells at people


Avatar by the gracious and wonderful Phaerie <3
[Apr 6, 2016 10:32:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
Gorillabuddy

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 20, 2011
Posts: 321
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
I can't understand, though. If Grey Havens experiments with concentrating on pillaging, to see if that truly appeals to more players, fine. If they move things around to open islands to conquer, fine. But I can't fathom how wiping out people's junk will help the game's health, at all.


It would foster the development of new goals and desires. It would be best for the game, imo, if people would stop resting on their laurels and get out there and accomplish things. Of course, it's hard to incentivize that when most people already have/had the rewards for doing so(familiars, ships, governorship, shoppe management, etc.) I'm personally in favor of a new ocean rather than wiping the current one(s), though, as clearly a lot of people are upset by the idea of losing their things. A new ocean seems like the best of both worlds to me. Everyone can keep their stuff, but on the old ocean. The new one is a clean slate.
----------------------------------------
Pliskin of Cerulean

Avatar by Cattrin
[Apr 6, 2016 10:50:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jlh0605

Member's Avatar


Joined: May 1, 2007
Posts: 2243
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I will add my vote to the "do not ever wipe the current oceans", and also to the "As much as I love this game, I'm not sure I'd keep playing if I can't carry over my stuff" idea. I have literally spent years collecting trinkets, LE ships, and trophies, and I am not in any way sure I would continue to play if I lost all of that.

Puzzle Pirates does mean a lot to me - every day, when I come home from work, and see my wonderful wife, who I met playing this game, I'm thankful for the (usually) great playerbase this game has fostered and kept around. But I'm one of those "I'll play as I can, because I know that what I do will always count towards trophies" pirates. I play for the slow, long-term goals. Don't take those away from me.

If the ocean needs to change, sure, it can change. I'm fine with an entirely new ocean, as long as it's done right. But do not make a new ocean that I can't carry my stuff into; my ships, my trinkets, and my memories.

Maybe there could be a new currency (regional flavor of PoE) that's only available on the new ocean, and you must use that currency to bring your old posessions over. That way, everyone has to play on the new server, but people like me who want to bring stuff over can slowly accumulate the funds to do so. Heck, make it so docks require a docking fee (or repair fee) in this new currency.

Another suggestion is to have a "poker chip" concept; all money bet in poker (and possibly all carousing games) is bet in the form of chips. These chips can be bought with PoE, but trading them back in for PoE will have a significant (50%+) cost. This would help reduce the "play poker to fund cades" stuff, without getting rid of poker or its high-stakes nature. It would also create a PoE sink.
----------------------------------------
~Jamesh on Emerald
Avatar by PixelPixie

Galene tells ye, "You are awesome."
[Apr 6, 2016 11:05:00 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

Member's Avatar


Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Posts: 3958
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

plis wrote: 
It would foster the development of new goals and desires. It would be best for the game, imo, if people would stop resting on their laurels and get out there and accomplish things. Of course, it's hard to incentivize that when most people already have/had the rewards for doing so(familiars, ships, governorship, shoppe management, etc.) I'm personally in favor of a new ocean rather than wiping the current one(s), though, as clearly a lot of people are upset by the idea of losing their things. A new ocean seems like the best of both worlds to me. Everyone can keep their stuff, but on the old ocean. The new one is a clean slate.

Forcing people to start over from scratch is not how you motivate people to do stuff. That's how you drive them away.
----------------------------------------
#TeamEvil
Marto wrote: 
We can't rely on majestrate he yells at people


Avatar by the gracious and wonderful Phaerie <3
[Apr 6, 2016 11:14:37 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
ponytailguy

Member's Avatar


Joined: Aug 20, 2005
Posts: 8963
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
A server wipe should be the last resort, because after that, you can't test any other possible solutions.

What "other possible solutions" are there?

Waiting on new features is a non-starter. Having laid off most of the development staff, we're about to enter an era when the game basically only gets those updates necessary to keep the lights on. Unless a new feature is already low-hanging fruit (and, by definition, nothing languishing on The List since 2005 is low-hanging fruit), it is almost certainly not coming, so don't pin your hopes to it.

De-colonizing Cerulean is a non-starter. It's on-the-face unfair that some people's property and islands be taken away while others are left intact, and any solution which compensates people for giving up this dusted property is only going to make the problem of PoE concentration even worse: the volume of PoE on the ocean is the problem, and pumping oodles and oodles more into the economy in exchange for worthless deeds and islands is the worst thing you could to do address it. (And moving shoppes to colonized islands is no better: can you really add dozens of shoppes to Turtle without wrecking the island and the economy?) De-colonization doesn't actually fix any of the major problems: mostly it'll just piss people off and break those systems which are still limping along.

Marketing and advertising are non-starters. The game, in its current form, is unattractive, for reasons we've already gone into to some depth. Merely attracting new players doesn't do anything for us without an attractive game to retain them: we need to sort that out before any advertising is done, anything else is just throwing good money after bad.

And tinkering at the margins is a non-starter. Great, sure, make pillaging more attractive, but that does nothing to address the legacy issues I and others keep trying to raise: how does that reduce the amount of legacy PoE in the system? How does that make islands or shoppes or familiars rare again? How does fiddly changes and minor re-balancing bring back the social aspects of the game which haven't' been present in multiple years?

We need to compress the players into fewer islands. We need to reinvigorate endgame incentives. We need to address the sheer volume of resources floating around the ocean, embodied as shoppes and ships and PoE. We need to address these problems in a manner which treats people fairly, and which doesn't involve dumping vast amounts of PoE back into the ocean -- thereby making problems worse -- as compensation for losing more-or-less worthless assets.

Only a new ocean gets us there.
----------------------------------------
The Ghost of Oceans Past
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by ponytailguy at Apr 6, 2016 9:28:18 PM]
[Apr 6, 2016 9:25:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Girlpowa69

Member's Avatar


Joined: Sep 29, 2015
Posts: 8
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote


[Apr 6, 2016 9:30:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
scupperer

Member's Avatar


Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 4335
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Eat your shops & islands. Refund deed holders cost of large stall + reasonable difference. Stock, rum, cannonballs... reimburse the deedholders at nominal prices. Same with high-purchase house holders. Start new ocean. Close old oceans.

Trinkets & ships & poe & dubs & furni & everything loose - it all goes back to the pirate's booty. Move pirate to new ocean. A mass exodus: the great depaarrrrrture.

Starting fresh pisses off too many people. Bringing cherished pixels along: more comfortable. Losing shops - minor price to pay, and if you want to continue playing, you've enough to open a stall until the islands open, and then you can jockey once again for territory.

Abundance of 'things'? So what? Abundance of poe? So what? The problems associated with those will re-occur anyway.

GH can take advantage of whatever resurgence this less-than-fresh start might spur, reduce overhead from managing all these oceans, and maybe have enough left to put in development to solve some of the 'aging' problems. It's either that or sit on your 2005 easter eggs displayed in your rent-free PixMansion for another year or two before even GH is forced to turn off the lights for lack of non-profit income.
----------------------------------------
I believe that we are all, openly or secretly, struggling against one or another kind of nihilism. - Ellen Willis
[Apr 6, 2016 10:51:21 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.scupperer.com [Link]  Go to top 
Minsiem

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 26, 2006
Posts: 2455
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Even if a server wipe were the miracle of miracles, it's pointless. Because within a few years, we'd be back to having the same argument we are now. How to breathe life back into the game.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with this here.

Also, though... a lot of this discussion is still assuming any further development of the game beyond basic maintenance and bug-tweaking will be occurring. >.>
----------------------------------------
Minsiem, Like A Fox
Nimbelina, Any Minute Now

I believe in a Higher Purple!

Erfan flag officer chats, "let's cade a popular forage island"

[Apr 7, 2016 1:20:02 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Taieth



Joined: Feb 4, 2015
Posts: 15
Status: Offline

Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I like the idea of a New Ocean. Let me tell you my example.

Guild Wars...

I know there are many differences and GW2 was a brand new game for the most part but hear me out...

What if there is a main Ringer Island with Pirate Monument that when you click on it a dialog appears, "This here monument was fashioned a remembrance to pirates young and old who stood the test of time." Then presents the option to select an ocean and type in a name presenting the Pirate Page of said pirate along with earned Trophies and pictures.

This preserves a lasting memory of every pirate who played before the transition.


Then, I disagree with a complete reboot. Even for oceans like Malachite players had to start with something in order to play otherwise OMs are running countless hours of villages from Day 1 so we can all afford our first ships. So bare with me, I don't have algorithms yet but...

What if every item is given a numerical value based on price and rarity. So high end familiars have some of the highest values and sloops are near the bottom of the first full number. In simple terms: Sloop = 1; War Frig=4; Rogue WF=5; Colored Fam=8; Rare Fam=10

Then we add a new non-tradeable form of Rogue Mark. Something like a 'Letter of Mark' that holds a value on the new ocean only in trades to the OMs. So if on Emerald I received 15 LoM (Letters of Mark) then on the new ocean I can buy new items. Some of which are limited edition or specifically from the old oceans and others are useful items like new ships. So on the new ocean each sloop for example might cost 5 letters and a rare familiar might cost 100. So obviously I can afford 3 sloops but if I traded in more on the old ocean I might be able to get a familiar on the new ocean. This allows players a level of continuity from old to new and still requires players to acquire most of their new items. Subscribers can be paid letters as loyalty for time subscribed previously so it's not all a waste.


In my opinion this might allow the best transition from old to new. You want new crews on the ocean to have ships and be able to support a crew without a grind. We don't want to put too much pressure on Grey Havens to support a fledgling ocean and dub buyers shouldn't have a dramatic edge in the event of a merger of the two ocean styles.


Regardless I think we have found frequently that certain groups of players can maintain large portions of control on new oceans especially in colonization of islands.


Edit: To Grey Havens,

Please don't give up on Y!PP I went to college to pursue Computer Science because of this game and I still want to work on the game.

SINCERELY,
ME

Edit2: Not 100% sure but I think with a full merger a single ocean would run at or near 600-700 players daily without any increase to current numbers and close to 1000 at peak times.
----------------------------------------
_______________________

Taeitren of Emerald
Fleet Officer and Navigator of Caustic Affliction
----------------------------------------
[Edit 2 times, last edit by Taieth at Apr 7, 2016 3:03:03 AM]
[Apr 7, 2016 2:48:31 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
joandart

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jan 24, 2007
Posts: 1590
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 


It would foster the development of new goals and desires. It would be best for the game, imo, if people would stop resting on their laurels and get out there and accomplish things. Of course, it's hard to incentivize that when most people already have/had the rewards for doing so(familiars, ships, governorship, shoppe management, etc.) I'm personally in favor of a new ocean rather than wiping the current one(s), though, as clearly a lot of people are upset by the idea of losing their things. A new ocean seems like the best of both worlds to me. Everyone can keep their stuff, but on the old ocean. The new one is a clean slate.

Okay, I guess it might foster new goals for you, but not for me. Since I (and everyone else) have always had the option of creating a fresh pirate with no stats or possessions, an ocean wipe seems pointless. "Wiping" is what I am expressing my negative opinion about. If ever another completely new ocean were to be created, without expunging the one I enjoy, then mazel tov to all who play on it.
----------------------------------------
Herowena of Cerulean
Still Sleeping With The Fishes

Dexla drew it.
[Apr 7, 2016 2:52:05 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Notsizzly

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 29, 2010
Posts: 2937
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
 
Even if a server wipe were the miracle of miracles, it's pointless. Because within a few years, we'd be back to having the same argument we are now. How to breathe life back into the game.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with this here.

Also, though... a lot of this discussion is still assuming any further development of the game beyond basic maintenance and bug-tweaking will be occurring. >.>

----------------------------------------
~ Sizzly of Emerald ~
Avatar by Aerecura <3
[Apr 7, 2016 7:01:31 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
angel2512

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 28, 2006
Posts: 391
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I don't really have a problem with a new ocean. I don't mind so much re-memorising routes, or having to build up poe reserves again.

I'm on the fence about re-building stats, as it took me a very long time to get some of them to ultimate (especially distilling). However I recognise that with a new ocean, there is a possibility of having greenies again, which would hopefully reduce the curve somewhat, for distilling.

However, I'd really hate to lose my LE and significant value portraits, my LE / normal renamed ships, a few special trinkets from Apollo, my one OM doll, my egg collection and one or two of my familiars. There was a lot of poe, RL money and time spent to collect enough rogue marks to rename half of my ships. I'm never going to sell any of the above listed anyway, as they have a sentimental value attached to each item.

If the new ocean would allow me to trade in all my poe (minus some norminal poe to start off with) and bring ships / portraits / special trinkets and at least 1 familiar across, I'd consider that. It'll be painful to lose most of my poe reserves and my distilling stats, but it's a lesser pain than losing pixel items that are sentimental to me.


Edit: Oh yes, I would also hate to migrate to an ocean which only uses the dub system. There is a reason why I'm still on Cerulean, even if things get a bit quiet at non-peak times.
----------------------------------------
~Saphireangel~

SO of Mischievous Drifters,
Lady of Maniacal Menagerie,
Cerulean, once a Cobalt native.
(also lurking on all English oceans)

Angelfish collector
Avatar gorgeousness by the lovely Angelira!
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by angel2512 at Apr 7, 2016 10:17:48 AM]
[Apr 7, 2016 9:41:31 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
pomfret

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jan 8, 2006
Posts: 2672
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

As it is now, I spend like about $100 a year on 2 subs just to log on occasionally to add stuff to my collection of pixelised junk. There is nothing else engaging to do.

If I have to start all over again, I might just as well start all over again...

on a different game!

What's the point of starting all over again playing the same freakin' game and puzzles? I will be bored silly.
----------------------------------------
Pomfret of Midnight Cerulean and Most Oceans
Except when I am Scroogie or somebody else

Stupid merger made me change my signature...
[Apr 8, 2016 2:44:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
scupperer

Member's Avatar


Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 4335
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
add stuff to my collection of pixelised junk. There is nothing else engaging to do.


That was depressing. Let's not change a thing.
----------------------------------------
I believe that we are all, openly or secretly, struggling against one or another kind of nihilism. - Ellen Willis
[Apr 8, 2016 5:39:40 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.scupperer.com [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

Member's Avatar


Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Posts: 3958
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

scupperer wrote: 
That was depressing. Let's not change a thing.

To be fair, pomfret wasn't saying don't change anything, he was saying to not wipe the server because he doesn't want to start over just to end up doing the same thing(s) he's already done.

Or was my sarcasmictometer broken?
----------------------------------------
#TeamEvil
Marto wrote: 
We can't rely on majestrate he yells at people


Avatar by the gracious and wonderful Phaerie <3
[Apr 8, 2016 9:03:19 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
ponytailguy

Member's Avatar


Joined: Aug 20, 2005
Posts: 8963
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
What's the point of starting all over again playing the same freakin' game and puzzles? I will be bored silly.
It sounds as though you already are. The point of an ocean dusting is to make it less boring: to re-introduce social and competitive elements which are presently absent on Cerulean, and to extend the game beyond puzzling for pixels.
----------------------------------------
The Ghost of Oceans Past
[Apr 8, 2016 10:15:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

Member's Avatar


Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Posts: 3958
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Even when starting fresh, you're still puzzling for pixels. You're just resetting the pixels that are the goal.
----------------------------------------
#TeamEvil
Marto wrote: 
We can't rely on majestrate he yells at people


Avatar by the gracious and wonderful Phaerie <3
[Apr 8, 2016 11:43:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

Member's Avatar


Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 6314
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
In order to spawn greenies, an island must have a population greater than 250, along with a smattering of amenities.

Which means that, as of this posting, only one island on Cerulean can spawn greenies at all -- and Turtle Island's population of 259 is right on the bubble,

First, sorry for the late reply, this is the first time I've looked at the forums in a couple of weeks. I realize that my reply at first sight seems counter to where the thread has headed, but it really isn't.

Secondly, there are three islands on Cerulean that can spawn greenies, Kirin, Terra and Turtle. It has been this way for over 6 months.

Third, unless shown otherwise, I don't think that the game will only spawn greenies on one island, even if Kirin and Terra drop. When OOO started Kraken testing on Ice, there weren't any islands with populations over 75, let alone 250. Still, greenies spawned just fine. First one one island, then two and finally greenies were spawning on three islands.

OK, now my point is this. This seems to be HWFO about something that may not actually be a problem. More importantly, fixing things like greenie spawns can probably be done in much simpler ways than many of the suggestions made in this thread.
----------------------------------------
Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Apr 8, 2016 12:58:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LJAmethyst

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 19, 2007
Posts: 4056
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
 
What's the point of starting all over again playing the same freakin' game and puzzles? I will be bored silly.
It sounds as though you already are. The point of an ocean dusting is to make it less boring: to re-introduce social and competitive elements which are presently absent on Cerulean, and to extend the game beyond puzzling for pixels.


But that doesn't seem to have been the goal of Three Rings/SEGA for the last umpteen years. Consider the caliber of the updates we received on a regular basis. They all reinforced the idea that OOO wanted us to be puzzling for pixels, because the lion's share were all about new shinies and collectibles. The updates that were not about pixels or bugfixes and actually added new features were all about fracturing areas of game play so that a finite playerbase was spread more and more thinly over an ever-increasing range of activities.

So I would say that as noble as your idea is to restore interest in the game and reintroduce social and competitive elements, is it really aligned at all with the goals of Three Rings/SEGA, and going forward, with those of Grey Havens? And let's be realistic, the name has changed, but the personnel have not.

And let's say that we did achieve the goal of wiping the oceans and forcing a restart from scratch for all players. There would still be a million different activities for them to do. Some will go off and poker, some will do VRs, some will do CIs, a small minority will want to pillage. There's just no cohesion when it comes to type of activity or common endgame goals anymore. And those are problems that won't be solved by wiping databases, but only by rolling back the code to somewhere around 2005.
----------------------------------------
Retired as of August 2015.
2 Timothy 4:7
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by LJAmethyst at Apr 8, 2016 4:33:28 PM]
[Apr 8, 2016 4:17:45 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.newadvent.org/bible/jon001.htm [Link]  Go to top 
Taieth



Joined: Feb 4, 2015
Posts: 15
Status: Offline

Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
So I would say that as noble as your idea is to restore interest in the game and reintroduce social and competitive elements, is it really aligned at all with the goals of Three Rings/SEGA, and going forward, with those of Grey Havens? And let's be realistic, the name has changed, but the personnel have not.



Is it really fair to condemn Grey Havens before they have even begun? Their first act that we should recognize them for is returning us from what would probably have been extinction. I would be willing to bet that SEGA had plans to shut down Y!PP and SK as failed attempts to refocus efforts on their Sonic games. So you can't really judge them for what OOO/SEGA has done.

Even if you could.... Consider the fact that SEGA has very specific intentions for their online game markets in which games tend to run themselves and just rake in money. For them SK and Y!PP were completely outside of that realm.

Given all of that. I think we should expect a lot of changes from Grey Havens. Albeit slowly over time... Many of the people now working for Grey Havens have the option to do the things they want to do, no more constraint from SEGA. They can develop what they want, fix what they want. It is their game to control... On top of that they are players just like us and they loved the game enough to want to keep it. We should support them in that and do what we can to help.
----------------------------------------
_______________________

Taeitren of Emerald
Fleet Officer and Navigator of Caustic Affliction
[Apr 8, 2016 8:44:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Taieth



Joined: Feb 4, 2015
Posts: 15
Status: Offline

Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
So I would say that as noble as your idea is to restore interest in the game and reintroduce social and competitive elements, is it really aligned at all with the goals of Three Rings/SEGA, and going forward, with those of Grey Havens? And let's be realistic, the name has changed, but the personnel have not.



Is it really fair to condemn Grey Havens before they have even begun? Their first act that we should recognize them for is returning us from what would probably have been extinction. I would be willing to bet that SEGA had plans to shut down Y!PP and SK as failed attempts to refocus efforts on their Sonic games. So you can't really judge them for what OOO/SEGA has done.

Even if you could.... Consider the fact that SEGA has very specific intentions for their online game markets in which games tend to run themselves and just rake in money. For them SK and Y!PP were completely outside of that realm.

Given all of that. I think we should expect a lot of changes from Grey Havens. Albeit slowly over time... Many of the people now working for Grey Havens have the option to do the things they want to do, no more constraint from SEGA. They can develop what they want, fix what they want. It is their game to control... On top of that they are players just like us and they loved the game enough to want to keep it. We should support them in that and do what we can to help.
----------------------------------------
_______________________

Taeitren of Emerald
Fleet Officer and Navigator of Caustic Affliction
[Apr 8, 2016 8:50:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
pomfret

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jan 8, 2006
Posts: 2672
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
 
What's the point of starting all over again playing the same freakin' game and puzzles? I will be bored silly.
It sounds as though you already are. The point of an ocean dusting is to make it less boring: to re-introduce social and competitive elements which are presently absent on Cerulean, and to extend the game beyond puzzling for pixels.

Blockades and island control is only interesting to about a dozen or so people. For the rest of us jobbers it is just meh more puzzling the same puzzles for poe to exchange for pixels.

For greenies it is like what, I have to wait till the weekend??!

If anything needs to change, change it so that what fun stuff a player can do is not dependent on what other players do. Otherwise the population will still continue to drop.

It is bad business to drive away current paying customers with an airy fairy plan that may or may not attract more new paying customers than those lost. It is however good business to retain current paying customers while making changes that may attract new paying customers.
----------------------------------------
Pomfret of Midnight Cerulean and Most Oceans
Except when I am Scroogie or somebody else

Stupid merger made me change my signature...
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by pomfret at Apr 8, 2016 9:52:50 PM]
[Apr 8, 2016 9:39:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ponytailguy

Member's Avatar


Joined: Aug 20, 2005
Posts: 8963
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

But nobody has actually outlined what these "new changes" ought to be.

To reiterate, we're about to enter an era when most dev time is volunteered: we're probably only going to get whatever is necessary to keep the lights on, what little work can be done without much technical involvement (adding new portrait backgrounds, adding monthly ships, etc.), and perhaps some low-hanging fruit which people feel motivated to pluck off the vine.

That last category may include some new features, but consider that anything which has been on The List since 2005 is, by definition, hardly low-hanging fruit: if it were trivial to implement, it would have been implemented by now.

With this in mind, what new features are people talking about? What low-effort, high-impact stuff might be done?

And by the arguments being made here -- you can't take my stuff away or I'll quit forever! -- anything which involves pruning something out of the game or significantly reducing its payout is a non-starter. Can't get rid of poker or nerf it into the ground because people would quit. Can't get rid of Atlantis because people would quit. Can't get rid of BKs because people would quit. Existing features must be maintained, or you've crossed your own logic.
----------------------------------------
The Ghost of Oceans Past
[Apr 9, 2016 3:24:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
joandart

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jan 24, 2007
Posts: 1590
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Edited to be less exasperated and less TL;DR

Of course if changes can ever be made to equalize payouts between different game elements, that would be great. If all parts of the game can be made more greenie-friendly, hurrah. But the players who enjoy particular parts of the game are never going to embrace calls to "prune" the very branches they stand on. Of course it's a non-starter. Of course.
----------------------------------------
Herowena of Cerulean
Still Sleeping With The Fishes

Dexla drew it.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by joandart at Apr 9, 2016 7:25:07 PM]
[Apr 9, 2016 6:38:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

Member's Avatar


Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Posts: 3958
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

As much as I like Kraken Lair runs, if they were removed, along with all other SMH activities, I would not quit.

Removing poker would be fine as well.

The only other thing I'd ask is to try and find a way to minimize the number of jobbers needed to make ships go when in blockades. So that more people can get out and drive. I'm not saying don't require any duty puzzling, but reduce what's needed either through different performance in that environment, or by being able to supplement with bots (but only in that environment). Something like bots will man 80% of the stations (rounded to nearest whole number) until they are replaced by humans (not counting guns).

I don't really know how to explain it. So I'm going to use an example.

A War Brig has a total of 24 possible duty stations (1 nav, 9 sails, 6 carp, 4 bilge, 4 gunners). 80% of 24 is 19 (rounded down from 19.2). Bots would not start getting replaced until the total number of gunning stations and the nav station were accounted for. In this example, on a War Brig that number is 5 (4 gunners and 1 nav). The 6th player to board the ship would replace a bot and that would continue to happen until all of the bots have been replaced.

If something like that were to happen, I think the bots should earn at least 50% of whatever the segment pay is, if not the full amount. And those eights should be sunk. Also, the bots should not perform any better than fine, to encourage flags to try and replace bots with players. In addition to that, the bots should not be able to occupy any more than 1 gunner station.

Anyway, it's almost 4am and I need to sleep. I'll read your GD post when I wake up, PTG.
----------------------------------------
#TeamEvil
Marto wrote: 
We can't rely on majestrate he yells at people


Avatar by the gracious and wonderful Phaerie <3
[Apr 9, 2016 6:49:53 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
Rick9109

Member's Avatar


Joined: Sep 19, 2003
Posts: 6711
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Ponytailguy wrote: 
NB: This is a concept for an entirely new ocean, from the perspective of a player who has only ever played on subscription servers.


This is insane. You have all these opinions on what new players want or need and you haven't played on the ocean where nearly all the new players have come from over the last ten years?
----------------------------------------
Rome
Pirates of the Damned, Crimson Tide.
I don't care what it did to them, the game's been good to me.
[Apr 11, 2016 7:28:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    rick9109    cactusrome [Link]  Go to top 
fire2009boy

Member's Avatar


Joined: Apr 20, 2006
Posts: 176
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I only read the first post and even then only half of it and skimmed the other half.

But it sounds like TITAN (I never let go of this idea ever since they mentioned it ages ago) would be a great thing for dusting an ocean. Imagine, Titan hitting up islands and permanently smashing them into oblivion one by one until all the islands are gone and therefore the ocean is closed. To delay the inevitable closure players could band together to repel the Titan but he would only come back stronger and stronger (kinda like the ghost ship). Could start at the outer islands and move inward to the center of the ocean, or from least populated to most populated islands. Make it so an island is gone once all the buildings are destroyed by Titan's assault and have the damage to the shoppe's determined by how long Titan is present before its repelled or a hard limit on the assault time. If the limit is reached island is gone, if Titan is repelled then only some shoppe's get dusted.

Or you know, just hit the off switch.
----------------------------------------
Kenpachi
[Apr 11, 2016 10:27:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
ponytailguy

Member's Avatar


Joined: Aug 20, 2005
Posts: 8963
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Ponytailguy wrote: 
NB: This is a concept for an entirely new ocean, from the perspective of a player who has only ever played on subscription servers.


This is insane. You have all these opinions on what new players want or need and you haven't played on the ocean where nearly all the new players have come from over the last ten years?
Well, for one thing, I've maintained all along that I'm exclusively interested in Cerulean here: I mention the ocean by name several times (without mentioning any others), all my examples come from Cerulean, and I've literally said, multiple times, that I'm only looking at this one ocean.

But, for the purposes of argument, let's talk about "new players".

http://www.glowie.com/~onyx/PPAT/PPAT.php

Where are they? Either they aren't being attracted or they aren't being retained, because no ocean is free from shrinkage: activity on Emerald is about half what it was five years ago; Meridian is down about 60% over that same period, with its population roughly a quarter of what Viridian maintained during its peak year. Cerulean has certainly shrunk faster than either -- but it had a much lower population to begin with, and that's sort of the crux of my argument: with Cerulean, we're now running an ocean with the population of Azure, spread across a map twice as big as anything which has come before, with game systems which presume levels of activity and engagement which we haven't seen since Viridian in 2007. This doesn't make sense.
----------------------------------------
The Ghost of Oceans Past
----------------------------------------
[Edit 5 times, last edit by ponytailguy at Apr 12, 2016 7:32:21 PM]
[Apr 12, 2016 6:57:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
majestrate

Member's Avatar


Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Posts: 3958
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

PTG wrote: 
Well, for one thing, I've maintained all along that I'm exclusively interested in Cerulean here: I mention the ocean by name several times (without mentioning any others), all my examples come from Cerulean, and I've literally said, multiple times, that I'm only looking at this one ocean.

But, for the purposes of argument, let's talk about "new players".

http://www.glowie.com/~onyx/PPAT/PPAT.php

Where are they? Either they aren't being attracted or they aren't being retained, because no ocean is free from shrinkage: activity on Emerald is about half what it was five years ago; Meridian is down about 60% over that same period, with its population roughly a quarter of what Viridian maintained during its peak year. Cerulean has certainly shrunk faster than either -- but it had a much lower population to begin with, and that's sort of the crux of my argument: with Cerulean, we're now running an ocean with the population of Azure, spread across a map twice as big as anything which has come before, with game systems which presume levels of activity and engagement which we haven't seen since Viridian in 2007. This doesn't make sense.

Agreed. Which is why it would be nice to be able to close islands and revert them back to uncolonized. Though, after going back through the Cnossos thread, I fear that being able to do that would require serious dev resources and efforts. So, it will just remain on my personal wish list, which doesn't mean anything, but when I blow out my birthday candles, it's like 3rd or 12th on the list of things I wish for.
----------------------------------------
#TeamEvil
Marto wrote: 
We can't rely on majestrate he yells at people


Avatar by the gracious and wonderful Phaerie <3
[Apr 13, 2016 9:41:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
cmdrzoom

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 25, 2003
Posts: 7325
Status: Offline
Re: The Campaign for Ocean Dusting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I would be a lot happier - with a wipe, or just in general - if there was some convenient way provided of documenting those (imaginary) possessions which I currently have. Sure, I can take notes and screenshots, assemble my own personal scrapbook for fond and/or proud reminisces... but that would be a fair amount of work, and I have both more savvy and less to record than others. Nor would there be any practical way for me to share it with anyone else, on the off chance that they might be interested.

If some or all of that process can be automated, it might ease the transition for at least some of the sentimental... and should the worst come to pass, it would be a final blessing for the faithful.
----------------------------------------
Starhawk of Mad Mutineers, Azure
Catalina of Twilight's Sabre, Cobalt
[Apr 26, 2016 12:12:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Posts: 83   Pages: 3   [ First Page | 1 2 3 | Next Page | Last Page]
[Show Printable Version of Thread] [Post new Thread]

Puzzle Pirates™ © 2001-2016 Grey Havens, LLC All Rights Reserved.   Terms · Privacy · Affiliates