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Roleni

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Re: Botting Reply to this Post
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You were also skeptical that people move spy in blockades. Needless to say, you shouldn't be so naive. Sorry for attacking the poster, not the post, but short of sending you a copy of a bot, you're going to have to take people's word for it.

No, I was skeptical of its usefulness, especially if the side being spyed on was aware of it.

Perhaps I overestimate the ability of YPP players to avoid making mistakes. :P
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[Mar 23, 2012 10:04:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
DeepNine

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Roleni wrote: 
I did some more math regarding the carpentry; if we figure a really good bot could even manage something like 100,000,000 positions a second, that's still only enough to consider 100 possibilities per move and look four moves ahead

The possibility of a bot that could beat a human at carpentry existing isn't really a question, even on crummy computers. The most basic heuristics cut out well over 90% of possible moves per move, e.g. not considering moves that overlap when nonoverlapping moves are still available. Make a few more tweaks and you have a bot that gets at least MP^16 or better damn near every time. This is before you consider that bots move near-instantaneously - and we're talking finishing all of its holes before you finish your first six. With how important speed is, the margin by which humans get crushed is really quite staggering.
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[Mar 24, 2012 12:25:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Yngve6

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About rigs, ;P it took me a while to assure my stat stays there in ult <_< cuz the SMALLEST mistake you made could make you go down from that incredibly shiny boat :P (now i can do it fine if i pay attention and loop more than i tar, meaning i kinda had to change my style<_<)


Got my full leg rigs back yesterday :D and lost it the next lp ><
Thanks for the tip Misa, I'm sure I'll get my leg rig stat back soon enough with looping instead of going for tar.
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Inghild on Meridian
Yngve on Emerald
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[Mar 24, 2012 4:26:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jongy5

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About rigs, ;P it took me a while to assure my stat stays there in ult <_< cuz the SMALLEST mistake you made could make you go down from that incredibly shiny boat :P (now i can do it fine if i pay attention and loop more than i tar, meaning i kinda had to change my style<_<)


Got my full leg rigs back yesterday :D and lost it the next lp ><
Thanks for the tip Misa, I'm sure I'll get my leg rig stat back soon enough with looping instead of going for tar.


<3 Tar 4 Ever
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Musicologist : Self-proclaimed Master Minstrel mostly of Meridian

Message from Team Evil: Fine, we'll pass the petition along to Hera for you even though you're pro-Team Purple, but we refuse to be happy about it! #TeamEvilisAWESOME
[Mar 24, 2012 7:23:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kicback

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About rigs, ;P it took me a while to assure my stat stays there in ult <_< cuz the SMALLEST mistake you made could make you go down from that incredibly shiny boat :P (now i can do it fine if i pay attention and loop more than i tar, meaning i kinda had to change my style<_<)


Got my full leg rigs back yesterday :D and lost it the next lp ><
Thanks for the tip Misa, I'm sure I'll get my leg rig stat back soon enough with looping instead of going for tar.


<3 Tar 4 Ever

Whats looping and Tarring? D: Please explain, as I cant get past prof/dist in Rig D:
[Mar 24, 2012 7:30:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Yngve6

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About rigs, ;P it took me a while to assure my stat stays there in ult <_< cuz the SMALLEST mistake you made could make you go down from that incredibly shiny boat :P (now i can do it fine if i pay attention and loop more than i tar, meaning i kinda had to change my style<_<)


Got my full leg rigs back yesterday :D and lost it the next lp ><
Thanks for the tip Misa, I'm sure I'll get my leg rig stat back soon enough with looping instead of going for tar.


<3 Tar 4 Ever

Whats looping and Tarring? D: Please explain, as I cant get past prof/dist in Rig D:


Well if you create a ring of the same colored pieces, all the pieces in the ring will be cleared then the ring itself clears. That's looping.
If you clear a loop you will get a hook piece. Clearing a hook piece also clears all the surrounding pieces.

If you clear all pieces of the same color from the board (you need min 5 pieces) you get a tar piece. When the tar piece is cleared all empty spots surrounding the tar piece will be filled with the same color. Which helps in getting big strings to clear.

For me, trying to get the loops also helped me in getting more tar pieces. These tutorials might help you in getting your rigs up.
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Inghild on Meridian
Yngve on Emerald
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Yngve6 at Mar 24, 2012 8:35:50 AM]
[Mar 24, 2012 8:31:56 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BobJanova

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I'd like to see the secondary PoE market attacked with a vengeance. It should be straightforward to inspect PoE streams and see who has a vastly greater amount of PoE given to them than makes sense for the reverse trades, and who gives away most of their PoE and gets nothing in return. No-one who cares about the game enough to be making millions would just give it away on a regular basis if they weren't trading it out of game.

OOO should also have agents sign up to the big PoE-selling sites and spend a few months building up a ban list, and then killing everyone. It is relatively little work and if you can destroy confidence in those sites then you will do a lot of damage to the illegal market.

Bots are a real problem too but probably harder to prove, although the 'port, wait, deport, turn' test is fairly conclusive and should be enough to ban on the basis of. (Remember to wait long enough though, as porting legitimately doesn't reset your indicator.) But I think that by attacking PoE-selling you could do a lot to restrict botting in game as well.
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[Mar 25, 2012 3:27:09 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wokbok117



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You were also skeptical that people move spy in blockades. Needless to say, you shouldn't be so naive. Sorry for attacking the poster, not the post, but short of sending you a copy of a bot, you're going to have to take people's word for it.

No, I was skeptical of its usefulness, especially if the side being spyed on was aware of it.

Perhaps I overestimate the ability of YPP players to avoid making mistakes. :P


Truth. Move switching against people move spying to counter your counter. So funny. That said, it seems rare.

-Wok
[Mar 25, 2012 4:22:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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I'd like to see the secondary PoE market attacked with a vengeance. It should be straightforward to inspect PoE streams and see who has a vastly greater amount of PoE given to them than makes sense for the reverse trades, and who gives away most of their PoE and gets nothing in return. No-one who cares about the game enough to be making millions would just give it away on a regular basis if they weren't trading it out of game.

Or skip the PoE stream inspection. Check with the lawyers to make sure this is legal-- change the terms of service if needed-- then post sell offers. Ban the people who buy from you.

And/or change the terms of service so that OOO can legally claim third-party cash sales (if this can be legally enforced). Move onto the buy side of the equation. Then ban the people selling to you, and do a chargeback to reclaim the money that was, after all, a third-party cash sale.

Oh, and if you find someone who's been doing it successfully for some time, and has made a considerable amount of cash from the sales: tip off the IRS (or local eqivalent) that they really, really need to audit that individual.

I don't know how many of those can be done legally. But one of the upsides of being bought out by a big company is that they should have laywers who can tell them.
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[Mar 25, 2012 4:33:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Or skip the PoE stream inspection. Check with the lawyers to make sure this is legal-- change the terms of service if needed-- then post sell offers. Ban the people who buy from you.

And/or change the terms of service so that OOO can legally claim third-party cash sales (if this can be legally enforced).{....}

I can't see any way OOO can create terms that affect third parties, the only people bound by a contract are OOO and the players. The ToS dos apply to the people actually buying/selling PoE for real money though, but OOO has to catch them.

The only angle I can think of is that, currently, OOO isn't a gambling site because OOO doesn't let you cash out your PoE for real money. It is possible that these third party sites create, in effect, a gambling site and the feds might be able to take action for that.
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[Mar 25, 2012 6:12:41 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Roleni

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DeepNine wrote: 
Roleni wrote: 
I did some more math regarding the carpentry; if we figure a really good bot could even manage something like 100,000,000 positions a second, that's still only enough to consider 100 possibilities per move and look four moves ahead

The possibility of a bot that could beat a human at carpentry existing isn't really a question, even on crummy computers. The most basic heuristics cut out well over 90% of possible moves per move, e.g. not considering moves that overlap when nonoverlapping moves are still available. Make a few more tweaks and you have a bot that gets at least MP^16 or better damn near every time. This is before you consider that bots move near-instantaneously - and we're talking finishing all of its holes before you finish your first six. With how important speed is, the margin by which humans get crushed is really quite staggering.

A hundred possibilities per move is already discarding a good 90% (or more) of the technically possible moves. ;) The point is, the numbers work in an exponential manner that eventually puts a limit on computational power; human brains don't have that same limit, because they cut out far more than 90% of the possibilities, which is both an advantage and a disadvantage to having a brain.

Anyway, I'll cede the issue of speed - but that's also something that OOO should be able to detect, and enforce. So for a bot to really be good enough to count as legitimately good, it should be able to perform well at a humanly possible speed.

And a quick Google/YouYube finds that what ready examples of bots are out there...can't. Sure, improvements would help, but we're talking MASSIVE improvements. Much much more than "a few tweaks". I was actually impressed with a few of the bots - one in particular was quite good whenever it had a putty bucket - but they still have multiple fundamental errors. I could list a good half-dozen or so, but I'd rather not help any botters improve their program. :P

Besides, to be honest, if I treated carpentry like grandmasters treat chess, I would *expect* to hit MP^16 damn near every time. (Well, actually, I'd go with MP^15; it's better to get that and finish with another masterpiece than try to force the sixteenth and instead end up with two craftmanships.) Most of the time that I don't, it's because I've made a blunder, which I often notice if I'm focusing well.

BobJanova wrote: 
I'd like to see the secondary PoE market attacked with a vengeance. It should be straightforward to inspect PoE streams and see who has a vastly greater amount of PoE given to them than makes sense for the reverse trades, and who gives away most of their PoE and gets nothing in return. No-one who cares about the game enough to be making millions would just give it away on a regular basis if they weren't trading it out of game.

OOO should also have agents sign up to the big PoE-selling sites and spend a few months building up a ban list, and then killing everyone. It is relatively little work and if you can destroy confidence in those sites then you will do a lot of damage to the illegal market.

Bots are a real problem too but probably harder to prove, although the 'port, wait, deport, turn' test is fairly conclusive and should be enough to ban on the basis of. (Remember to wait long enough though, as porting legitimately doesn't reset your indicator.) But I think that by attacking PoE-selling you could do a lot to restrict botting in game as well.

This. In effect, my skepticism of the prevalence and usefulness of bots and other cheating mechanisms shouldn't really matter; I'd prefer the rules simply be enforced better.


@Wok: I do think your comment on my skeptical tendencies is a legitimate one. I'll get back to it some time that I don't have multiple homework assignments to work on. :P
----------------------------------------
Thalatta & others

Hera tells ye, "You got me so flustered by the spanking, I booched my chat response!"
Hera tells ye, "Purple is the most awesome colour ever!"
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Roleni at Mar 25, 2012 8:32:21 PM]
[Mar 25, 2012 8:25:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sverdrup

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BobJanova wrote: 
I'd like to see the secondary PoE market attacked with a vengeance. It should be straightforward to inspect PoE streams and see who has a vastly greater amount of PoE given to them than makes sense for the reverse trades, and who gives away most of their PoE and gets nothing in return. No-one who cares about the game enough to be making millions would just give it away on a regular basis if they weren't trading it out of game.

OOO should also have agents sign up to the big PoE-selling sites and spend a few months building up a ban list, and then killing everyone. It is relatively little work and if you can destroy confidence in those sites then you will do a lot of damage to the illegal market.

Quoted For Truth.

This cash-for-poe selling is a hierarchical scheme akin to the drug trade:

1. The botters are the street peddlers risking their skins.

2. The powerful blockading monarchs without real crews/flags (but poes) are the drug king pins buying services from botters during high-pay blockades and paying botters with cash for poe (via cartels, see next).

3. The real-world "gambling" sites (making the bots and providing the poe-cash exchange) are the cartels creating, enabling, and profiting from every aspect of this. The cartels cut into OOO long-term viability as a financial enterprise in the real world.

4. High-stakes poker acts as the money-laundering scheme within the ToS.

All parasites eventually kill their host. As in the drug trade: seize all assets (poe, ships, islands, stats) that were used in any activity where as little as 1 poe has been aquired in violation of the ToS.

EDIT-4: Thank you, Setsusa and Chipharip for opening my eyes to these schemes the last few weeks as it put the blockading game(s) into a larger perspective.
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Sverdrup, CPTN of Schroedinger's Cat, Heisenberg's Uncertainty, Meridian
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[Edit 4 times, last edit by Sverdrup at Mar 26, 2012 11:37:05 AM]
[Mar 26, 2012 11:21:09 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Setsusa

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Do keep in mind though, Sver, some players (myself included) have broken the 100 million mark legitimately. I wouldn't jump to say every active blockading flag uses illegal methods for PoE generation, but I'd be mindblown if OOO came up with some evidence that not one has benefitted from third party sellers.
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[Mar 26, 2012 11:44:42 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Roleni

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Yeah, it's a pretty far-fetched jump to call independently wealthy blockading monarchs "drug king pins". Especially with poker, Atlantis, shopkeeping and the doubloon exchange.

Plus there are plenty of people that have been around a long time and simply accumulate a lot of resources. I don't generally make a lot of poe, but if I liquidated everything I'd probably have at least 10 million, maybe as much as 15. Throw a few bored rich old farts together and you've got plenty of ships and poe to blockade for a while.
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Thalatta & others

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Hera tells ye, "Purple is the most awesome colour ever!"
[Mar 26, 2012 11:57:34 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Setsusa

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To throw it in retrospect, I have, and I know of at least two other people who have made 10 million in the past 10 days.

As an aside to Roleni: how profitable is the doubloon market? It seems like unless you were investing a very large sum of PoE you wouldn't profit a great deal on it. The profit margin might be alright, but the actual net gain seems like it would be small.
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[Mar 26, 2012 12:12:52 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Roleni

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Not sure. :P I'm thinking more of people who either buy poe legitimately with doubloons, or people who convert poe on doubloon oceans into subscriptions, which then can be used to generate poe through labor. Neither generates a lot individually and in the short run, but it can add up given enough time and people - and then be funneled into high-cost endeavors like blockades.
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Thalatta & others

Hera tells ye, "You got me so flustered by the spanking, I booched my chat response!"
Hera tells ye, "Purple is the most awesome colour ever!"
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Roleni at Mar 26, 2012 12:27:45 PM]
[Mar 26, 2012 12:27:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Setsusa

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Ah, I thought we were talking about playing the doubloon market to profit off the exchange over time. My mistake.
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[Mar 26, 2012 12:31:28 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sverdrup

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Roleni wrote: 
Yeah, it's a pretty far-fetched jump to call independently wealthy blockading monarchs "drug king pins". Especially with poker, Atlantis, shopkeeping and the doubloon exchange.

Agreed. Yet not all island-owning, independently wealthy monarchs have gotten to where they are via honest means.

The probability is high, that poker is the prime mechanism to launder the drug money. This does not mean, that all successful high-stake poker players are money laundering drug king pins. It merely means, that some likely are.

Let me close on the note, that I as an individual pirate have no access to information or proof of any illegal activity. If I did, I would communicate with OceanMasters, not General Parley and Politics.
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[Mar 26, 2012 12:59:45 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sverdrup

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EDIT: Booch
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Sverdrup, CPTN of Schroedinger's Cat, Heisenberg's Uncertainty, Meridian
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Sverdrup at Mar 26, 2012 2:04:46 PM]
[Mar 26, 2012 1:02:15 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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A hundred possibilities per move is already discarding a good 90% (or more) of the technically possible moves. ;) The point is, the numbers work in an exponential manner that eventually puts a limit on computational power; human brains don't have that same limit, because they cut out far more than 90% of the possibilities, which is both an advantage and a disadvantage to having a brain.


Editorial note: There is a delicate balance here between explaining enough to be enlightening about the situation and explaining so much that others would be encouraged to bot the puzzle. To ensure I don't disrupt the balance, I'm going to talk about very different problems in some detail and only talk about carpentry in very vague terms. For reference, I've seen a bot in action that almost never does worse than MP15, and I know it doesn't look ahead at unseen pieces. Thankfully, it's not "in the wild" because the author is an academic (he entered thesis procrastination mode for a while, and suffice to say carpentry is a much easier problem than a PhD thesis problem in computational genomics).

The main issue with your analysis is that you're assuming you have to use some variation on brute force to solve carpentry with a computer. The thing is, you don't; it turns out there's some extra structure to the problem that allows you to cut out an exponential number of possibilities. Let's consider a classic problem: finding the shortest path between two points on a map of roads. Sure, there's an exponential number of paths (sequences of roads) between those two points, but it turns out that this is an easy problem to solve because you can show the optimality of a subpath, namely, that if the shortest path from A to B passes through C, then it includes the shortest path from A to C and the shortest path from C to B. This means that you can solve the subpath problem first, and use that information to solve the original problem. In fact, you can solve the subpath problem by looking at subpaths of subpaths, which implies building up a hierarchy of paths based on length. Now, an interesting observation is that the longest path problem is NOT an easy problem. Again, there are the same number of possible paths, but the difference is that there is no (known useful) decomposition into subproblems for which we can prove optimality.

So in order to claim that carpentry isn't an easy problem, it isn't sufficient to just show that the number of possible moves is large; you have to show that there isn't some additional structure to the problem that allows you to solve a small number of easy subproblems and combine them together to obtain solutions to the whole thing. As it turns out, there are two structural properties of carpentry that allow this massive amount of simplification. One is the obvious "if you have two holes of the same shape, they can be solved the same way, regardless of what you did to get the hole to be that shape." This allows the construction of what's known as a dynamic programming table (I'm NOT giving the details on how to construct this specific table), which allows you to "consider millions of moves" with a single lookup. The other is a property that can't be proven (omitted for safety), but just turns out to be true often enough in practice. This property allows you to create an approximation of the game where the holes on the board are completely independent of each other, which means if you can solve a single hole in a reasonable amount of time, then you can solve X of them with only an X-fold increase in time (which is tiny). So now this boils down to the following question: Can I play out all the possibilities for a single hole in a reasonable amount of time, given that I can consider a million moves as a single operation? The answer turns out to be "close, but not quite," but there's one more trick (again omitted for safety) that becomes clear once you successfully construct and examine the aforementioned table.
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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[Mar 26, 2012 1:13:53 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
BobJanova

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To enter this sidetrack briefly, I'm pretty sure I could code at least a GM level carp bot without even thinking hard about it. I'm not going to, because I enjoy the puzzle and it would spoil my enjoyment, even without connecting it to the game and violating the ToS. But none of the puzzles we have in YPP are 'hard' from an AI meaning of the term, with the possible exception of sailing (and maybe weaving, I don't really understand that well enough to comment).
----------------------------------------
Bobjanova on Viridian and Malachite
Shops and stalls with fair and profitable wages for all: Jubilee, Napi, Chelydra
Stripped/Barely Dressed (Malachite)
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[Mar 26, 2012 1:37:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
barrelmonkey

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There is a reason why massively distributed bots were few and far between, and why they are more common now, and it's money.

It's actually easier to create an AI to play any of the puzzles than it is to create the puzzle itself. Usually programming the AI is a small part of the larger project of creating a game.

Now, the reason there weren't a whole lot of bots for such a long period of time is that the only ones created were just for fun, or for the small amount of profit one gets from using a bot. If you're a good programmer, you have some spare time, and you really want to be the best at X puzzle, then it could also be worth your time to write a quick bot to play it for you, but you wouldn't distribute it. I don't expect anyone to agree with me on this point, but I'm confident that some of these crazy good puzzlers (especially the ones who just so happen to be skilled programmers) wrote themselves a bot or two. But, since they wanted to be the best and didn't distribute it, the bot didn't really make a difference to anyone.

There has been a change recently though where a couple groups have sprung up that found a way to charge for the bots. One group I saw uses DRM on all of their bots and charges a monthly fee to use them. Another group has like a VIP program where most of the VIP features are fluff, but they also have a premium downloads section that includes a couple of the other group's bots that they cracked the DRM on.

Suddenly when writing a bot means $500 a month, you get a whole lot more motivated to do it. I don't know what the solution is, but I can see the problem getting a lot worse in the near future.

---

With the debate on what can be botted and how effectively, I'm confident that one could write a bot for every puzzle that would play it more effectively than any person could. The question just becomes how much work it would take to write it. The bilging bots probably won't be as good as the top-tier human players are, but that's because top-tier bilgers build sea donkeys and vegases that don't already exist on the board. I'm sure if someone cared to write a bot that played that way, it would play a whole lot better than me or anyone else, but it would be a lot harder than writing a bot that looks for bingos, so it probably won't happen any time soon. Oh, and also I don't want to see anymore traditional bake-offs for bilging because they totally favor botters. The first 10 seconds are crazy important in a bake-off, and when you can move superhuman fast that's a big advantage.

I do also have to point out that you don't have to understand the game too terribly well to write the bot, because if you have to skill to write one, you probably also have the skill to decompile the game and look at how the scoring works instead of guessing based on experience.
[Mar 27, 2012 1:30:37 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
darkseid

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A lot of top tier bots players do do bingo bilging

lol, dodo

I typed it wrong, woops the only bots I've seen on youtube just do a clear a move. never seen anything create somethign before.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by darkseid at Mar 27, 2012 8:48:27 AM]
[Mar 27, 2012 4:43:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
barrelmonkey

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Right, I was saying that they don't do sea donkey and vegas bilging, unless the sea donkey already exists on the board. Floating the pieces up that you need to form a sea donkey is a lot harder to program than simple pattern recognition.
[Mar 27, 2012 8:30:57 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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I do also have to point out that you don't have to understand the game too terribly well to write the bot, because if you have to skill to write one, you probably also have the skill to decompile the game and look at how the scoring works instead of guessing based on experience.


I'd like to point out that knowing the rules for the game, while certainly useful, is a relatively insignificant part of understanding the game well enough to write a bot for it. Take Go as an example; all of the rules are publicly known, but that doesn't mean that anyone currently understands Go well enough to write a top-level bot for it.

In fact, you can bypass knowing the scoring for the game just by using what other players say about the game. If other players say that making 3x3s is enough for a yellow pump in bilge, then all you need to do is figure out how to make 3x3s as efficiently as possible (either yourself or with a bot), and then follow that blindly. Similarly, if someone posts a sufficiently detailed description of how to construct Sea Donkeys and Vegases, all you need to do is follow that description (either yourself or with a bot), and then follow that blindly.

 
Suddenly when writing a bot means $500 a month, you get a whole lot more motivated to do it. I don't know what the solution is, but I can see the problem getting a lot worse in the near future.


The solution is something that would be nice to have anyway but apparently isn't feasible with the amount of dev time currently invested in this project: More puzzles, more puzzle variations. The core puzzles haven't changed in years, and aren't expected to change for years to come. This means writing a bot is a one-time investment; once you've successfully written it, you can continue to profit off of it so long as it's still effective (and note that unless using the bot results in immediate banning, you'll still have potential clients willing to pay for the bot for a few days' worth of use). However, bots also tend to be very specifically tailored for a puzzle, and will NOT adapt to a change in puzzle mechanics without effort from the bot-writer. If the mechanics change (subtly) often enough, you not only keep the experience fresh for actual players, you frustrate the bot-writer by forcing him to constantly update his bot. Imagine the extreme case of releasing a brand new set of duty puzzles every month; bot writing would pretty much go out the window because by the time someone released a bot that performed passably well, the puzzle would be on its way out. Obviously, releasing a new set of puzzles every month is infeasible without massively increasing developer resources, but more modest investments in varying the puzzles will still hamper the bots (not to mention give players who like learning and adapting to puzzles more enjoyment out of the game).
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[Mar 27, 2012 12:33:58 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

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Well, we were warned. We just thought it was a joke.
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[Mar 31, 2012 3:44:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
darkseid

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I've just went and looked at some bilge bots on youtube, they've certainly improved. much more of a challenge for a human to beat.
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[Apr 1, 2012 12:04:09 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Stephensam

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I've just went and looked at some bilge bots on youtube, they've certainly improved. much more of a challenge for a human to beat.

Reminds me that one time someone posted a distilling bot video. I've never laughed that much at a Puzzle Pirates video :P
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Aeternis

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I guess that bot is still better than me ;)
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