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the_rock99

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Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

Like the title says... I've wondered for a while now why bigger flags never return war declarations against other flags.

Since I've been in What A Ride and seen that the only way to get our war declarations returned was to actually blockade the flag. Now with Pay for Play we've sent our two war declarations against Legacy and Imperial Coalition.

I'm not looking for a flame war I'm asking why our war declarations aren't being returned. I'd also like input from other flags besides just Legacy and just Imperial Coalition as to why you wouldn't return a war declaration.

Again. I'm not flaming Legacy and Imperial Coalition, I'm just wondering why?


NB! None of the above is from Pay for Play itself. It is purely for my self interest.
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Greatness.
Better than you.
[Oct 9, 2011 8:01:07 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
mcfunky

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

Thought this would be obvious... a big flag inevitably has lots of inexperienced officers not interested in sinking pvps, so why should they return a war dec from some flag full of pvp hunters that will mostly just cruise around looking for easy sinks? War in this game is stupid, blockades are where it's at.
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Viridian: Daenerys
Sage: Mcfunky
[Oct 9, 2011 8:13:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sverdrup

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

There is little point of a large, active, pillaging flag of perhaps 100 members with 20-30 battles/day to go to war with a smaller, largely inactive flag who rarely put ships out to sea. I am not saying that that is what you do, but I always look at pillaging activity and flag size prior to committing to war. I do NOT mind being hunted for PvP, but I want an equal opportunity of targets to hunt in return.

Not flaming anyone, just saying.

EDIT: Important NOT was mising. I love PvP.

EDIT-2: Oh, I now see that Pay for Play declared war in Legacy and Imperial Coalition. So all parties are target-rich, so to say. Hence your question perhaps needs to focus on those flags.
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Sverdrup, CPTN of Schroedinger's Cat, Heisenberg's Uncertainty, Meridian
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Sverdrup at Oct 9, 2011 8:21:35 AM]
[Oct 9, 2011 8:15:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
sardinez

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

P4P is a joke.

I mean, seriously, look whose their queen and ya get what I mean.....

What happened to this, shadymermady? It has been what?? 10 months... Where your comeback??? Ohh, gonna use the Rudebwoi is dormant excuse again??
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Greatness said:"I said "we" because I was also part of that blockade team at the time. So yes, I kicked ass too. There's some reality for you."
[Oct 9, 2011 8:30:07 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
shadymermady

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

I've been queen for less then a week. Yes that is hilarious.
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Betty - Obsidian

Crip tells ye, "bout to turn on my balls warmer.."
[Oct 9, 2011 8:38:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
penduhl

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

This new P4P that was created by Shady is pratically a joke now. If they had respect for the former P4P that we all knew, they would retire the flag now and start a new one because now, some people on Viridian will remember the Joke P4P and not the original that was one of the biggest flags on Viridian.
[Oct 9, 2011 8:39:44 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
the_rock99

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

mcfunky wrote:
 
Thought this would be obvious... a big flag inevitably has lots of inexperienced officers not interested in sinking pvps, so why should they return a war dec from some flag full of pvp hunters that will mostly just cruise around looking for easy sinks? War in this game is stupid, blockades are where it's at.


First of all. I find that excuse of having a flag full of inexperienced officers a load of nonsense. Mainly for the fact that if you're a captain of a crew and are going to join a flag that is prone to war declarations you should know better than to let your inexperienced officers be exposed to that. I've found that flags hide behind that excuse a lot. A big flag shouldn't be accepting crews that have captains that are just there because they're power hungry and just hand out officer positions for fun.

Also blockades only happen on weekends and not all blockades are sinking. (I'm not being ignorant of your point, I've looked over it a few times and that's just what I thought about it. Thanks for your input).

Then penduhl wrote:
 
This new P4P that was created by Shady is pratically a joke now. If they had respect for the former P4P that we all knew, they would retire the flag now and start a new one because now, some people on Viridian will remember the Joke P4P and not the original that was one of the biggest flags on Viridian.


Lets go off topic for a bit here. We're moving onto another phase in Pay for Play. All those people of your "old" Pay for Play have retired. If they have a problem with the way we run things now, they're more than welcome to come back and tell us and we will gladly give it back to them.

But hey, I understand why you're sour.. Weren't you kicked from our so called "joke" Pay for Play a couple of weeks ago? Its unhealthy to hold grudges.

Edit: Formatting.
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Greatness.
Better than you.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by the_rock99 at Oct 9, 2011 9:21:07 AM]
[Oct 9, 2011 9:19:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
penduhl

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

I dont recall but please, enlighten me with your knowledge
[Oct 9, 2011 10:01:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
2NDSKY

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

 
This new P4P that was created by Shady is pratically a joke now. If they had respect for the former P4P that we all knew, they would retire the flag now and start a new one because now, some people on Viridian will remember the Joke P4P and not the original that was one of the biggest flags on Viridian.

It's funny how you get on Viridian Parley, call P4P a joke flag and act all Mr. Tuff guy. You're a failed troll from either Hunter or Sage, you got cyber bullied so hard you keep moving oceans. Get a grip, don't call a flag a joke when you're an even bigger joke.

Also, you're saying that because a flag has a history, it shouldn't be kept active even though the older players retired? Bullcannon. The old veterans are suposed to teach the newer players, that way there will always be a competitive atmosphere on the blockade board.
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Shadowie on Obsidian
[Oct 9, 2011 10:34:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
penduhl

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

 
 
This new P4P that was created by Shady is pratically a joke now. If they had respect for the former P4P that we all knew, they would retire the flag now and start a new one because now, some people on Viridian will remember the Joke P4P and not the original that was one of the biggest flags on Viridian.

It's funny how you get on Viridian Parley, call P4P a joke flag and act all Mr. Tuff guy. You're a failed troll from either Hunter or Sage, you got cyber bullied so hard you keep moving oceans. Get a grip, don't call a flag a joke when you're an even bigger joke.

Also, you're saying that because a flag has a history, it shouldn't be kept active even though the older players retired? Bullcannon. The old veterans are suposed to teach the newer players, that way there will always be a competitive atmosphere on the blockade board.

I won't even talk about your whining over your stuff with Legacy so go back to your whole where you stay there avoiding wars.

Yes, I am criticizing P4P over the fact that they aren't retired and the fact that are returning to become active or they are doing the whole Rude situation again.
I will compare this situation to Vanguard. Vanguard did the right thing and retired the flag and did their business in another flag (BooB I believe). Why doesn't P4P do that? I mean really it isn't that hard to keep the legacy of P4P at rest
[Oct 9, 2011 11:01:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
M_Cobain

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

 
 
 
This new P4P that was created by Shady is pratically a joke now. If they had respect for the former P4P that we all knew, they would retire the flag now and start a new one because now, some people on Viridian will remember the Joke P4P and not the original that was one of the biggest flags on Viridian.

It's funny how you get on Viridian Parley, call P4P a joke flag and act all Mr. Tuff guy. You're a failed troll from either Hunter or Sage, you got cyber bullied so hard you keep moving oceans. Get a grip, don't call a flag a joke when you're an even bigger joke.

Also, you're saying that because a flag has a history, it shouldn't be kept active even though the older players retired? Bullcannon. The old veterans are suposed to teach the newer players, that way there will always be a competitive atmosphere on the blockade board.

I won't even talk about your whining over your stuff with Legacy so go back to your whole where you stay there avoiding wars.

Yes, I am criticizing P4P over the fact that they aren't retired and the fact that are returning to become active or they are doing the whole Rude situation again.
I will compare this situation to Vanguard. Vanguard did the right thing and retired the flag and did their business in another flag (BooB I believe). Why doesn't P4P do that? I mean really it isn't that hard to keep the legacy of P4P at rest


I think it's mostly because the people who actually have a saying in this don't care if their old flag gets 'besmurched' by a total noob like Shady (amirite?!), and the people who do complain about it are the lowlifes shaking their fist at a fake sociaty on the forums all day.

They don't care, why should you care?
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Martobain

YPPedia improved with Tom Cruise the Elephant (who's my friend and buddy) catalogue!
[Oct 9, 2011 12:00:12 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
2NDSKY

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

 
to your whole where you stay there avoiding wars.

What the hell are you on about? It's hard enough to actually make a sentence out of your words, let alone try to understand it.
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Shadowie on Obsidian
[Oct 9, 2011 12:00:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
WenchCleo

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

 
mcfunky wrote:
 
Thought this would be obvious... a big flag inevitably has lots of inexperienced officers not interested in sinking pvps, so why should they return a war dec from some flag full of pvp hunters that will mostly just cruise around looking for easy sinks? War in this game is stupid, blockades are where it's at.


First of all. I find that excuse of having a flag full of inexperienced officers a load of nonsense. Mainly for the fact that if you're a captain of a crew and are going to join a flag that is prone to war declarations you should know better than to let your inexperienced officers be exposed to that. I've found that flags hide behind that excuse a lot. A big flag shouldn't be accepting crews that have captains that are just there because they're power hungry and just hand out officer positions for fun.



I believe Dae doesn't mean inexperienced crews or crews that hand out officer position "cause ai haz a sloop". Active crews who are training new officers or do a lot of pillaging don't want to be in flags that are at war. Large flags tend to have a lot of pillaging crews and a lot of merchant crews. It's the flags choice to put their crews in a situation where they might need to leave the flag to be able to function or not accept the war dec.
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Tikao of Viridian Meridian Ocean
Captain of Dark Horizon, Queen of Brink of Dawn

Martobain wrote: 
This thread is like a spanish soap series, I don't have a clue what they are saying and all the actors suck.

[Oct 9, 2011 5:50:52 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Captanharris

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

 
Yes, I am criticizing P4P over the fact that they aren't retired and the fact that are returning to become active or they are doing the whole Rude situation again.
I will compare this situation to Vanguard. Vanguard did the right thing and retired the flag and did their business in another flag (BooB I believe). Why doesn't P4P do that? I mean really it isn't that hard to keep the legacy of P4P at rest



Actually your wrong long past Calais, Bigbertha as well as ochubb Tempestblitz, Greaper, Wend and Nemore ( i might be missing a couple royals) the flag had another successful era with Whiterose, Anubiss, Tyria, Kyriel and even Wokbok. Even then they didn?t move to BooB until later on for reasons that had nothing to do with the old Vanguard or wanting to do the ?right thing?. I?m not going to argue a defence for myself and you alts can troll us all you want but if the past royals are happy with what we are doing then that?s all that matters to us.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Captanharris at Oct 10, 2011 2:12:36 AM]
[Oct 9, 2011 11:31:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
shadymermady

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

 
Yes, I am criticizing P4P over the fact that they aren't retired and the fact that are returning to become active or they are doing the whole Rude situation again.
I will compare this situation to Vanguard. Vanguard did the right thing and retired the flag and did their business in another flag (BooB I believe). Why doesn't P4P do that? I mean really it isn't that hard to keep the legacy of P4P at rest


I actually do love P4P and if you were someone that mattered in our flag then your oppinion would have been welcomed. You are nothing to P4P and never have been.

As far as saying Oh Em Gee you should have retired the flag!!!@!! Firstly, i haven't been in the flag for as long as some people and i was not part of the "old P4P". The things P4P achieved way before my time were amazing and i would be the last person in the world to try and hurt thier reputation. Rudebwoi wasn't able to come back like he had planned ( what a loser! i mean god forbid some guy choosing RL over a game! Lets keep bringing that up forever so no one ever forgets that he said he was coming back but didn't!!!). I have been sitting on my butt for months in a dormant flag chillaxing and hanging with our members but not really wanting to change anything.

Recently, as a flag we have been watching what's been going on and wanted to join in on some of the shooting. I personally asked many of the still active "old P4P" members what thier thoughts were on trying to bring some life back into the flag. I also asked if they would prefer the flag stayed dormant and left to retire or if they were interested in rebuilding. I was quite ready to start a fresh flag so that any changes i made didnt reflect on what had already been achieved by all the "old greats" I was asked to instead of leaving and starting something new, to hang around and help start a new era of P4P.

I really enjoying playing this game at all levels and whether we win or lose we wont be pretending to be something that we are not. What we are though, is a group of people that enjoying spending all of our poe on Ships, CBs and jobbers.

Please don't come on here and try to tell me what i should have done with P4P. I have no expectations on returning P4P to its old glory days. P4P is rebuilding whether you like it or not and we will be back on the board cading your freinds.
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Betty - Obsidian

Crip tells ye, "bout to turn on my balls warmer.."
[Oct 10, 2011 1:51:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
the_rock99

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

 
 
mcfunky wrote:
 
Thought this would be obvious... a big flag inevitably has lots of inexperienced officers not interested in sinking pvps, so why should they return a war dec from some flag full of pvp hunters that will mostly just cruise around looking for easy sinks? War in this game is stupid, blockades are where it's at.


First of all. I find that excuse of having a flag full of inexperienced officers a load of nonsense. Mainly for the fact that if you're a captain of a crew and are going to join a flag that is prone to war declarations you should know better than to let your inexperienced officers be exposed to that. I've found that flags hide behind that excuse a lot. A big flag shouldn't be accepting crews that have captains that are just there because they're power hungry and just hand out officer positions for fun.



I believe Dae doesn't mean inexperienced crews or crews that hand out officer position "cause ai haz a sloop". Active crews who are training new officers or do a lot of pillaging don't want to be in flags that are at war. Large flags tend to have a lot of pillaging crews and a lot of merchant crews. It's the flags choice to put their crews in a situation where they might need to leave the flag to be able to function or not accept the war dec.


Thank you for elaborating on his point. You've made me understand why people use that as a reason. I do however feel that, that excuse is used a lot. Now I will pose that question to Legacy and Imperial Coalition as to why they've chosen not to return our War Declarations. (Like sver suggested).

I'm not looking to flame the two flags, just curious.
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Greatness.
Better than you.
[Oct 10, 2011 3:56:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Elliptic

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

That "excuse" is used a lot because it's always a valid reason.
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"That is not how the question frames itself."

Wend, royal archophobe
[Oct 10, 2011 4:12:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
warp11

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

It's pointless to be at war with a flag that doesn't take ships out. I don't know how much WAR pillages but I'm sure it's nowhere close to how much a 300 people flag that has the "sloop for officer" requirement.
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Dahl "I have higher moral standards" gren
[Oct 10, 2011 4:50:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sverdrup

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

Elliptic wrote: 
That "excuse" is used a lot because it's always a valid reason.
Not so.

Using the protection of junior officers as excuse to avoid war, I feel, is an excuse of senior officers to avoid the consequences of their own failures to train and support their junior officers. The best way to prepare officers for war includes:

1. expect a certain skill level in piracy (distinguished in sail/carp/bilge),

2. own a sloop,

3. an hour-long training session (or test pillage),

4. friendly PvP with an in-crew trainer to explain "pools are your friend",

5. provide jobbing support by senior officers on junior officer's pillages,

6. explain that the attacker has the responsibility to hit and avoid the appearance of the "disengage" button; if an officer chooses to run, seek the disengage, and succeeds to get it, then s/he has won the PvP with honor as a defender;

7. pledge to replace all sloops sunk in war with crew funds, if the sloop has at least 5 people aboard.

Admittedly, this is a lot of work, perhaps too much work for most "elite" players, but it results in a strong, happy, mutually supportive crew and flag as well as trying to keep the game alive by growing it from the bottom up rather than the top down.

This type of pirating is not rewarded materially, you cannot "buy" blockades and collect islands with it. It is one of the many built-in contradictions and conflicts provided by game design. Few people with legendary battle navigation skill take green pirates onto their boats. I do. I plank them fast, but 8 of 10 do real well, better than many "elites" or "alts." I derive pleasure (not power, not poe) to have trained many green pirates and greenish officers to become legendary battle navigators themselves.

This is why we can and will go to war, if we so chose and if we judge the other side to be non-toxic and of stable mental health.

EDITs: Forgot Elliptic's quote that this is a response to. Spelling.
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Sverdrup, CPTN of Schroedinger's Cat, Heisenberg's Uncertainty, Meridian
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Sverdrup at Oct 10, 2011 5:58:50 AM]
[Oct 10, 2011 5:50:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
moeurfoe

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

Im still confused why people find sinking greenies fun. I personally find destroying greenies/ables-gm in my preferred games very boring.
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Captain of Haxorz on Viridian

Moedefoe on Viridian, Sage, Cobalt and Midnight
Kanoo on Hunter and errr...Malachite thing.
[Oct 10, 2011 7:58:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LunEnvoy

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

Personally, wars are awesome.
Why sink greenies? Conversion. Splitting dead-end flags into little fragments. Survival of the fittest. Not endorsing greenie hunting, but jus sayin. There was a time when the 'lesser' flags occupied themselves with wars rather than poker and blockade payouts. You want to get good enough to blockade? Go grab yourself a few nice wars to keep you busy for a couple months.
Pvp hunters will join you. Disgruntled opponents will join you. Crews from shattered flags will proclaim your cause to be their own. Your people get better. They get closer. You eliminate flags that wont amount to much of anything. Gather potential talent from opponents into one functioning unit.
Instead of auto-officer, poker, VP tarting, and XOing your way into the blockade scene, you actually earn the right to blockade. Not as individuals and their minions, but as large cohesive groups.

Wars totally suck.
This was written on a phone in a university parking lot. Pardon the horrible structure/flow/understandability.
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LoLune

I'm still just the guard dog. I bite. They shoot.
[Oct 10, 2011 8:40:20 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
WenchCleo

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

 
Elliptic wrote: 
That "excuse" is used a lot because it's always a valid reason.
Not so.

Using the protection of junior officers as excuse to avoid war, I feel, is an excuse of senior officers to avoid the consequences of their own failures to train and support their junior officers. The best way to prepare officers for war includes:

1. expect a certain skill level in piracy (distinguished in sail/carp/bilge),

2. own a sloop,

3. an hour-long training session (or test pillage),

4. friendly PvP with an in-crew trainer to explain "pools are your friend",

5. provide jobbing support by senior officers on junior officer's pillages,

6. explain that the attacker has the responsibility to hit and avoid the appearance of the "disengage" button; if an officer chooses to run, seek the disengage, and succeeds to get it, then s/he has won the PvP with honor as a defender;

7. pledge to replace all sloops sunk in war with crew funds, if the sloop has at least 5 people aboard.

Admittedly, this is a lot of work, perhaps too much work for most "elite" players, but it results in a strong, happy, mutually supportive crew and flag as well as trying to keep the game alive by growing it from the bottom up rather than the top down.

This type of pirating is not rewarded materially, you cannot "buy" blockades and collect islands with it. It is one of the many built-in contradictions and conflicts provided by game design. Few people with legendary battle navigation skill take green pirates onto their boats. I do. I plank them fast, but 8 of 10 do real well, better than many "elites" or "alts." I derive pleasure (not power, not poe) to have trained many green pirates and greenish officers to become legendary battle navigators themselves.

This is why we can and will go to war, if we so chose and if we judge the other side to be non-toxic and of stable mental health.

EDITs: Forgot Elliptic's quote that this is a response to. Spelling.


Actually, I have to disagree with you, Sver, DH has always had a policy of training officers, but we actually left a flag because they were constantly getting into wars and we couldn't pillage at all without getting hit by sinking pvp's... and for a small crew without the poe to constantly replace ships and trying to run multiple shops with merchant runs it was just too difficult. I'm not afraid of pvp's, I have officers that love to do them and regularly do them, but if I had a large flag again, I wouldn't force my crews to have to constantly worry about being sunk, particularly against flags that are known to "hunt".

I have to disagree with you also, Lune. Hunting greenie pillagers just keeps them from learning how to pillage (granted I think about 90% of the pillagers out there nowadays need to actually be trained on how to pillage first), if you have a new bnaver who's just learning, they're probably going to get very frustrated and possibly quit if they're losing ships in sinking pvp's.

There is nothing stopping you from pvping a flag, and targeting them... the only thing a war does is allow you to sink them. And, frankly, with the ship in a bottle thing now, that's not even that much of a hardship.
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Tikao of Viridian Meridian Ocean
Captain of Dark Horizon, Queen of Brink of Dawn

Martobain wrote: 
This thread is like a spanish soap series, I don't have a clue what they are saying and all the actors suck.

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by WenchCleo at Oct 10, 2011 10:29:20 AM]
[Oct 10, 2011 10:24:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BobJanova

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

Wardecs by small flags on large flags are (rightly) treated as a joke and ignored because you're asking for a completely unfair fight. In exchange for risking all their greenie officers' ships, potentially several officers themselves and the possibility of sabotage (though it's bannable, it still happens, and it's much easier in a large flag), you're giving them ... nothing. In most cases, not even the chance for their active PVP hunters to chase you, as the kind of flag that offers wardecs tends not to have ships out 95% of the time, or at most an elite sloop which is not interceptable.

Wars will be accepted if you are a serious political competitor and they feel they can 'win' the war, i.e. cause you more political damage than they suffer (simply draining the PoE, but also the 'lol you lost a war' reputation), or if the political consequences for refusing to return a wardec are considerable. That's simply not the case because all the serious political players realise that answering a wardec from a small flag is a bad idea.
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Bobjanova on Viridian and Malachite
Shops and stalls with fair and profitable wages for all: Jubilee, Napi, Chelydra
Stripped/Barely Dressed (Malachite)
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[Oct 10, 2011 10:43:02 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
LunEnvoy

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

If they quit because of a sunk sloop, they weren't worth much anyhow. As bad as that sounds...
Because obviously they don't have enough of a connection with their crew, so they fail in that respect.
They suck at getting poe, so that one sloop kills em.

And they're obviously a rage-quitter. Or at least rather generous in spewing emotion.
We don't need a bunch of little Brisky-Rissa babies running around do we?

The good ones, you sink em, and talk to em. They tend to come around. Specially the smart ones.
They realize you can learn just as much from sucking up your pride as you can from examining your mistakes.
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LoLune

I'm still just the guard dog. I bite. They shoot.
[Oct 10, 2011 11:00:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
WenchCleo

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

I don't think it has anything to do with rage quitting or "not being worth much ahyhow"... if you were a new officer, still learning how to run pillages effectively and you're targeted by an "elite" pvper and sunk, you're not only out the sloop, out your pillaging winnings, probably have a relatively inexperienced crew because the more experienced puzzlers aren't going to go out with an newbie pillager... you might get very frustrated and decide to stop bnaving.

We all have our emotional issues about the game because we're not bots, but I don't think it's a good way to help "raise" good bnavers by sinking them.
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Tikao of Viridian Meridian Ocean
Captain of Dark Horizon, Queen of Brink of Dawn

Martobain wrote: 
This thread is like a spanish soap series, I don't have a clue what they are saying and all the actors suck.

[Oct 10, 2011 11:46:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
the_rock99

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

 
That "excuse" is used a lot because it's always a valid reason.


You and I both know that this isn't always the case. I've been here 5 years and I've seen many flags that were able to return war declarations but simply didn't, with their experienced officers and large amounts of pirate bashers with this reasoning.

Another point I'd like to make to everyone about why I'm so pro-war in this debate is this oceans egos. We're all quick to boast a large amount in blockading when we forget blockading is in fact a team effort and is mainly based on points and jobbers, along with pay raises. In a blockade you aren't playing alone, you're with your team mates which will either lead you to victory or a loss.

When you're navigating one on one with another player its a whole different game. Its still a team effort but its purely to take out the other player without the worry about interruption from another ship or keeping points.

Now to the part about hunting greenie officers. I agree, its really boring hunting greenies considering most of them are sitting ducks after about 4 or 5 turns but I'm not saying its not effective.

For example if someone goes around hunting my greenie officers I'm probably gonna get annoyed and challenge that officer to a PvP against me with his best crew mates/hearties on their best stations and my best crew mates/hearties and if you dont want to battle me, I'll go take out one of your easy targets to get even.

Another point I'd like to make about this greenie hunting is that there are two sides to battle navigation. Navigating against bots and players. How are you meant to get any better if the only practice you're going to get against players is in blockading? I understand the part about being in training and not wanting to get sunk but there's more than enough time to train. We're not hunting 24/7 or only when a specific player is on. You have enough hours to train your greenie officers and the navy mission is there too for bot training.

Bob makes a valid point and I fully understand your logic behind not wanting to return a smaller flags war declaration. Thanks for your input.
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Greatness.
Better than you.
[Oct 10, 2011 11:48:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
sweetnessc

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

People like me find navving a pvp thrilling. People like most of my jobbers find navving a pvp terrifying, and tend to find other less stressful things to do like running a shop or casual voyages. My very first flag was self-identified as a war flag, did all the things that Sver listed in his post, and still had a third of the flag wanting wars, a third of the flag not wanting wars, and a third of the flag indifferent. We settled out that we would have two wars a year, plus whatever wars came out of our blockading. The fact is that a significant number of people just don't enjoy sinking pvp. They should be able to play the game too.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world. ~ Jack Layton

Sublime is shame.
[Oct 10, 2011 12:32:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Yasmi6

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

 
Go grab yourself a few nice wars to keep you busy for a couple months.
Pvp hunters will join you. Disgruntled opponents will join you. Crews from shattered flags will proclaim your cause to be their own. Your people get better. They get closer. You eliminate flags that wont amount to much of anything. Gather potential talent from opponents into one functioning unit.
Instead of auto-officer, poker, VP tarting, and XOing your way into the blockade scene, you actually earn the right to blockade. Not as individuals and their minions, but as large cohesive groups.


u actuallt wrote something that makes sense?
i applaude that :)
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Yasmi on Meridian
Yasmi/Ayani on all oceans
Captain of Lilith's Perfume
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(ex-Queen of Devils Advocates)

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[Oct 10, 2011 12:50:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Captanharris

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

Greatness has asked for a reason would be nice if he could get one from the flags it is directed at, all we have herd is opinions from other people about not accepting war declarations.


The opinion on a 300 member flag not accepting a war with a small flag because they dont run pillages that will most likely only hunt is legit. Problem is it doesnt work in this scenario considering p4p is a active flag that runs many voyages and atm is currently number 6 flag with eminent fame.

I have had new officers that love pvping and also ones that dont. Thing is its a part of the game and should not be winged about and just accepted. If your green officers want to learn how to battle nav then thats what the navy is for. If they want to learn some pvp skills take them to game gardens.


Also im going to say in my opinion pvping sea battles is nearly a totally different thing to blockade navigation.
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Captanharris at Oct 10, 2011 5:51:47 PM]
[Oct 10, 2011 5:49:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Chiptharip

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Re: Reasons for not returning War Declarations?

I agree, to a degree, with what Sver said. However, you can be the strongest flag on the ocean, with regards to mentoring/preparation but if your flag is active enough, odds are that some ship at some time during the week will booch. This booch can happen out of incompetence, accident, sabotage, whatever. The main point is that going to war with a controlled and/or "inactive" flag has absolutely no benefit. The small flag will not put out sinkable/huntable ships; the large flag can exercise a great degree of control, but inevitably will have a few ships that can be picked off. There is no benefit to waging a war in which your mistakes can be actively exploited, but your opponent cannot be contested on similar uncontrolled terms.

And really, the only reason small flags want wars with large ones is to greenie hunt. That's lame - go sack up and challenge some 4v4/5v5 sinking small board with some skilled navvers.
[Oct 10, 2011 6:16:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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