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Sugarpie



Joined: Aug 15, 2003
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moving the circle and the lag that ensues... Reply to this Post
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I searched and didn't see anything about circle movement but I can bet that most of you have been on the docks and someone joins the circle or leaves the circle causing it to expand/contract. No big deal unless you're swordfighting. I've lost at least one fight due to the circle movement and the lag as you watch every player turn around and do-si-do and make a bigger circle. I understand why the circles expand and contract but is it possible to make it an instant change when you're in a puzzle or make it so that you can set the circle size? I've seen people leave the circle (it shrinks) join the circle (it expands) and leave the circle again (it shrinks) and I've wanted to plant my cleaver securely in them. I don't think there's any way to broadcast that people had better not touch the circle because they're constantly coming and going from the islands, etc. Perhaps a solution for circle contraction would be that they wouldn't shrink unless its below the number of people for a minute or two to, at least prevent the pesky expand-contract-expand (wheeeee look at me playing with the circle) people from interfering with my swordfighting.
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Sugarpie
The Violet (er... Violent?) Pirate
Member of Black Death
Former Governor of Orca
Piggy Josiah R.I.P.

[Sep 16, 2003 6:28:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
svarog



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Re: moving the circle and the lag that ensues... Reply to this Post
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that lag is very noticable in swordfights, and i recall a few stutters because of similair situations in the tourneys over the weekend.

but i don't necesserily think it's from the screen draw itself, cause whenever anybody would walk through our circle (our being the circle that had myself and my swordfighting opponent) without expressly joining, there would be a moment (or two to a few) of lag.
[Sep 16, 2003 12:51:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
PrimeThian



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Re: moving the circle and the lag that ensues... Reply to this Post
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svarog wrote: 
but i don't necesserily think it's from the screen draw itself, cause whenever anybody would walk through our circle (our being the circle that had myself and my swordfighting opponent) without expressly joining, there would be a moment (or two to a few) of lag.

Actually, that makes it sound a lot like the cause.
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Prime (Hunter) : Fleet Officer of The Black Hunters
Typ (Sage) : Pirate of Irish Rouges [dormant]
Prime (Azure) : The Red and Green Senior Officer [memories]
[Sep 16, 2003 5:00:48 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
svarog



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Re: moving the circle and the lag that ensues... Reply to this Post
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PrimeThian wrote: 
svarog wrote: 
but i don't necesserily think it's from the screen draw itself, cause whenever anybody would walk through our circle (our being the circle that had myself and my swordfighting opponent) without expressly joining, there would be a moment (or two to a few) of lag.

Actually, that makes it sound a lot like the cause.


not really.

and to elaborate.

when there's a draw on the screen the computer doesn't get all slow. it's only when there's a draw of someone walking through the circle, people walking in the background, foreground, etc don't affect anything, only when someone was walking directly through the circle.

of course i'm swordfighting so i'm seeing the above happen in the minimap area. this isn't to say it can't be a draw issue, i just doubt it. i'd be more inclined that it has something to do with the overhead of adding a new person to the private chat channel that is a circle, though i wouldn't expect there to really be much overhead there or how to elaborate on that.
[Sep 16, 2003 11:06:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lothy



Joined: Aug 23, 2003
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Re: moving the circle and the lag that ensues... Reply to this Post
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I can concur with my esteemed colleague, Svarog on this one...

Even at a busy dock where there's all kinds of shouting and activity with people moving around, the biggest lag hiccups come when someone walks through the space occupied by the circle.

It's almost as if they're joining the circle and then leaving it immediately and that extra traffic is slowing things down.

Lothy
----------------------------------------
Lothy[size=9], Senior Officer of the Free Radicals
Sailing under the Flag Plundered Hearts
[Sep 16, 2003 11:33:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Re: moving the circle and the lag that ensues... Reply to this Post
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I believe it is the drawing of the new pirates and their positions that causes the stutter . . . I've had it happen without people going through the circle, though the circle expanding and contracting is the usual suspect.

As some of you may not know, the circles used to be stationary and static, but you had many, many conversations you could never join, because they were started in a 4-person circle . .. think about how often you see exactly 4 pirates in a circle now, and you see how useless that was.

Nevertheless, I am going to argue for some special cases if stationary circles (or squares, or ellipses, or whatever). Certain places would TRULY benefit from set "standing spots" that do not scale:

1) Nuptial Island. There should be stationary, static circles that will automatically configure all present into a screenshot-worthy (and sufficiently marital) format. If it's going to be the Nuptial Island, make it fit for weddings. It will be cute. It probably also needs a little shack for the couple to hide in before the wedding.

2) Throne Rooms. Here I'd envision something a little more rectilinear, so that people can line the sides of the red carpet (or whatever color it is for you). Circles just aren't as important indoors, since people outside the circle can hear you anyway. With that in mind, make it possible for people to stand in lines or squares, so things can look orderly.

3) Places that come later, like town squares or dance halls or forts or what have you. Make static standing spots so we don't have constant shuffling in all places -- redraw lag during a fort defense could be bad.

Again, to sum up, I like the circles, but there are advantages to having it work differently in different places.
[Sep 16, 2003 11:43:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Cleaver
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Lag and Circles Reply to this Post
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The 'lag' you're experiencing is the client compositing all the frames of animation for the pirates in a circle as they move. It's unfortunately a necessary evil, but we do plan to disable the 'bird' view when swordfighting (perhaps as an option), so you don't have this problem during a swordfight.

Circles did indeed used to be fixed, and I would like to see some fixed circles return. I'd also like to improve the circle code to automatically drag people into circles when they are stood nearby... which would solve a lot of the 'circle can't get bigger' problems.
[Sep 17, 2003 3:38:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
svarog



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Re: moving the circle and the lag that ensues... Reply to this Post
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thanks for the reply cleaver.

And i wouldn't even call the lag a necesery evil, i've loved how you all have done such an amaizing job with the atmosphere of the game (from initial pirate design to outfits to animation).

And i understand why there would be lag while drawing pirates entering / leaving the circle while your swordfighting. (Rendering and drawing to the screen). But is there a reason this doesn't happen when someone walks behind your circle? I'm still seeing them move in the 'birds eye' view. And surely my machine is rendering their legs walking across that minimap. What makes walking behind the circle different than walking through the circle?

Not trying to be a pain or anything, just trying to point out when i've seen the 'lag' and when i haven't. Covering all bases so to say.
[Sep 17, 2003 4:13:07 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nykkel



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Re: moving the circle and the lag that ensues... Reply to this Post
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When someone walks behind your circle, that's only one pirate's worth of animation. When someone enters/leaves your circle, that ALSO requires animation for every pirate in the circle, at the same time.

I'm glad to hear that they're looking at getting rid of the Overhead View map during Swordfighting. I think that'll help the problem a lot. I wouldn't mind having the option of turning off the at-sea Overhead Map during Duty Puzzles, too... if you're not in the Crow's Nest or actively steering the ship after enemies, it's really only useful for making sure you don't get hosed at a league marker. :) (I hate it when I'm in the middle of dropping a Sailing piece, then we hit a league marker, and after the marker my new piece drops a third of the screen or so before I can regain control of it.)
[Sep 17, 2003 8:02:03 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
burrito



Joined: Aug 18, 2003
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Re: Lag and Circles Reply to this Post
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Cleaver wrote: 
The 'lag' you're experiencing is the client compositing all the frames of animation for the pirates in a circle as they move. It's unfortunately a necessary evil, but we do plan to disable the 'bird' view when swordfighting (perhaps as an option), so you don't have this problem during a swordfight.

Circles did indeed used to be fixed, and I would like to see some fixed circles return. I'd also like to improve the circle code to automatically drag people into circles when they are stood nearby... which would solve a lot of the 'circle can't get bigger' problems.



Would it be possible to make a kind of "huddle" circle? For example, after one circle fills up, another circle gets established around the existing circle, thus creating one circle with two rows.
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-Peppy, Senior Officer of the Salty Mouthfuls
"Yarr, thar be stairs here."

1st Place, First Drinking Contest, Gaea 24 Hour Bash
2nd Place, Cayte's Sword Tournament, 9/29
[Sep 17, 2003 8:56:07 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    burrito+OMG [Link]  Go to top 
Booklegger

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Re: Lag and Circles Reply to this Post
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burrito wrote: 
Would it be possible to make a kind of "huddle" circle? For example, after one circle fills up, another circle gets established around the existing circle, thus creating one circle with two rows.


If you EVER steal the words out of my mouth again, I'll.....


well, I'll wag my finger in a very threatening manner, so don't get no ideas, mate.

:)
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Booklegger -- Manager Forging Ahead, Turtle I.
Cavan -- Officer of the Kamikaze Guppies
Novitiate of the Albertian Order of Leibowitz
[Sep 17, 2003 12:34:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    Booksensei    Djinnofkobal [Link]  Go to top 
Cleaver
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Re: Lag and Circles Reply to this Post
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burrito wrote: 
Would it be possible to make a kind of "huddle" circle? For example, after one circle fills up, another circle gets established around the existing circle, thus creating one circle with two rows.

Indeed, I have day-dreamed of such a thing too. Shortly afterwards I day-nightmare Jack stabbing me with his ballpoint-pen/poinard repeatedly when I suggest reworking the circle code instead of fixing bugs, billing, partner integration and all the wonderful things that will allow us to launch the game.

You can consider such a thing on my list, but don't hold yer breath!
[Sep 17, 2003 12:44:46 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
Dragonlilly

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Re: Lag and Circles Reply to this Post
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Cleaver wrote: 
burrito wrote: 
Would it be possible to make a kind of "huddle" circle? For example, after one circle fills up, another circle gets established around the existing circle, thus creating one circle with two rows.

Indeed, I have day-dreamed of such a thing too. Shortly afterwards I day-nightmare Jack stabbing me with his ballpoint-pen/poinard repeatedly when I suggest reworking the circle code instead of fixing bugs, billing, partner integration and all the wonderful things that will allow us to launch the game.

You can consider such a thing on my list, but don't hold yer breath!


Darn priorities!
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Dragonlilly, Captain of SDTC
A very much retired old sea salt! Or would that be sea saltess?
Shanty Raid-io!
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[Sep 17, 2003 12:53:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://dragonlilly.shantyraidio.com    srdragonlilly    SO+Dragonlilly    101380420 [Link]  Go to top 
Rengor



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Re: moving the circle and the lag that ensues... Reply to this Post
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Arrr Jack needs to easy up on the Martial Arts ;)

I remember we had circles with spots in the center way back when we had Tournament Green.
But two rows would certainly look better than a large circle with a few people in the middle, that felt a bit awkward I remember.
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-= SilverBeard of The Mad Mutineers =-
--=== www.madmutineers.com ===--
[Sep 17, 2003 1:06:51 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Sugarpie



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Re: moving the circle and the lag that ensues... Reply to this Post
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Hey Silver... all the better for us to make fun of you and throw our poe into your styrofoam cup!
----------------------------------------
Sugarpie
The Violet (er... Violent?) Pirate
Member of Black Death
Former Governor of Orca
Piggy Josiah R.I.P.

[Sep 18, 2003 12:28:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Chibiotaku



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Re: Lag and Circles Reply to this Post
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Please note that this post bumps an old thread, and consider not tryin' to point-for-point any old discussion. Thanks! --Smythe
Cleaver wrote: 
Shortly afterwards I day-nightmare Jack stabbing me with his ballpoint-pen/poinard repeatedly when I suggest reworking the circle code instead of fixing bugs, billing, partner integration and all the wonderful things that will allow us to launch the game.

You can consider such a thing on my list, but don't hold yer breath!


Reworking the circle code! Why, Nemo and I were just talking about this!

Consider this option when and if ye get to rework that circle code...
When a player tries to click into a circle in an object-crowded area (such as the dock of Spring), and the circle is already at it's maximum occupancy (I think Nemos circle was at 8, maybe...) and on the same map, there's a location nearby where the circle can move to rather quickly, in order to accomodate more players... When someone else clicks in, have the circle move to that new location. OR...

Put the pirate who tried to click in, into a mode called 'Circle-Leech' mode, wherein they can hear and participate in the conversation going on, but they're NOT in the circle due to space constraints. Perhaps put an icon of a Leech over their head. (Isn't that cute? Head Leeches!) Or an icon of a circle...

After all, it isn't the fault of the pirates in the circle that there's not enough space. If they didn't want someone in their circle, they would have made it clear.
[Sep 1, 2004 3:28:56 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    tweenwaters [Link]  Go to top 
Chibiotaku



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Bump! Reply to this Post
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And while I'm at it....

cdalman wrote: 
This is the second thread in two days that was bumped after being dead for almost a year!!
For those of you that are arguing points, look at the dates of the posts of the people you are arguing with.


~~~> *bump*

The circle code needs to be reworked.
You can't join circles on spring because that stupid noticeboard is in the way.
I figure I'd rather bring up the RELEVANT threads to my discussions rather than starting NEW ones and having people LINK me to the old ones...
[Sep 1, 2004 11:47:59 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    tweenwaters [Link]  Go to top 
Dragonlilly

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Re: moving the circle and the lag that ensues... Reply to this Post
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To my knowlegde, it is encouraged to dig up the relavent thread and post there if your comments or suggestions are still valid. So while it is odd to see threads that are nearly a year old or older being revived, it is nice too because then people aren't tarting, booching or linking. :D But apparently the tarting continues, so it just goes to show you can't please everyone.
----------------------------------------
Dragonlilly, Captain of SDTC
A very much retired old sea salt! Or would that be sea saltess?
Shanty Raid-io!
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[Sep 1, 2004 11:58:46 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://dragonlilly.shantyraidio.com    srdragonlilly    SO+Dragonlilly    101380420 [Link]  Go to top 
atteSmythe

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Re: moving the circle and the lag that ensues... Reply to this Post
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Dragonlilly wrote: 
To my knowlegde, it is encouraged to dig up the relavent thread and post there if your comments or suggestions are still valid. So while it is odd to see threads that are nearly a year old or older being revived, it is nice too because then people aren't tarting, booching or linking. :D But apparently the tarting continues, so it just goes to show you can't please everyone.

Nope, but ye kin please the moderators! ;) A simple mark that 'hey, this post is old, but relevant, and I'd like to add something' helps a lot.

atteSmythe,
who'll probably go make those marks now
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Attesmythe receives loot: [Gauntlets of Social Responsibility]
Attesmythe receives loot: [Ring of Mandatory Selflessness]

[Sep 2, 2004 1:38:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://attesmythe.com [Link]  Go to top 
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