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jonmooers



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What Is Up With Sea Battle? Reply to this Post
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Maybe its just me...has the brigand AI been redone once again with the new release?

I am not the best at battle nav, but certainly not bad at it being Ultimate in Sea Battle and running most of the pillages I am on. My war brig pillages are almost always against Imperials and we do pretty darn well against them winning 80% or more and scoring the occaisonal blood.

Since the latest update I cannot battle nav worth a dime. Did someone teach the brigands new tricks? To make it worse, the duty puzzles all seem booched because almost everyone on my pillages tonight is getting Fine and Good and I know they are better than that. Not to mention I hardly see any Imperials any more. Although considering I can't nav worth a doubloon and my jobbers can't repait carp damage, maybe that is a better thing.

Sorry, I'm just venting and most unhappy.
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Kuroshio

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[Oct 28, 2004 2:07:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shuranthae

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To my knowledge, Brigand AI has not changed. Regarding the other issues, probable answers:

The puzzle "grading difficulty" might have shifted again, meaning that so many people are getting Excels/Incred that it's now harder to get Excels/Incred, thus keeping the percentage of people getting Fine/Good/Excel/Incred/Etc as it should be (it does this constantly I believe, but we don't always notice it). As to getting less than Imperials, if you've been losing then your Ship Rating suffers so you get less than Imps.
[Oct 28, 2004 2:14:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jonmooers



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Aye, everyone tells me the AI hasn't changed...but I swear the way everything from Sea Lords to Imperials navigates is no longer the way it was a week ago.

Thanks to this wonderful period of battle nav impotence (new apoth potion, please?), my ranking has dropped down to Ult/Leg, but even before that I was finding it hard to get a good run of Imperials to hunt down (Granted the other jobbers might also be responsible for that).

Still, things just seem to have really changed from where I'm sitting.
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Kuroshio

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[Oct 28, 2004 2:26:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shuranthae

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If you're pillaging, especially with the job notice up, take whatever you're spawning. If you don't spawn Imperials, then you won't spawn Imperials. Shouldn't take more than two fights to get the Ship Rating to a point where you do though.
[Oct 28, 2004 2:37:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jonmooers



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Aye, I was taking what was spawning and was building up a ship rating that led to them.

But I'm still amazed at what I saw battle naving.
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Kuroshio

Captain of Murakami Suigun in Cobalt
[Oct 28, 2004 2:45:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Julephenia

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In terms of duty puzzles booching - as a newly crowned ult bilger, I had MAJOR problems with the puzzle tonight.

Not that I couldn't get Increds... but rather that every time the CO hit 'set sail,' my puzzle disappeared, and I had to exit and reenter. Obviously I soon stopped getting increds... at least I didn't drop rating wise. This on top of my client lagging to the point where it raced to catch up to the next league point, slow response to any click I made, bluescreening, blackscreening, PUTTING ME IN THE OCEAN OFF BYRNE ISLAND (http://photobucket.com/albums/v400/Julephenia/YPP%20pics/?action=view&current=093f5da7.bmp), disembarking me, etc.

It was so dreadful, I gave up and logged.
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WhoIsYou



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It's also interesting to see war ships are being spawned now. War brigs will attract other war brigs instead of merchant brigs and well staffed brigs bring war frigates instead of galleons.
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[Oct 28, 2004 2:49:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shuranthae

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Julephenia wrote: 
Not that I couldn't get Increds... but rather that every time the CO hit 'set sail,' my puzzle disappeared, and I had to exit and reenter.

That's a bug. It can happen whenever the Puzzle needs to be loaded (after a league point or at the beginning of a Sea Battle). It does happen because you're mid combo while the Puzzle loads. Thus, while the puzzle is "supposed" to be loading, it's still animating the previous combo and skips the load phase, which bugs you. My advice would be to pay attention to when you're about to hit a league point or brigand and make sure you're not comboing (specifically for Bilging and Sailing). Also yell nasty things at any CO's that don't have the freaking patience or decency to wait 5 damn seconds at a league point. Stress their lack of good parental units which failed to properly train them in good, respectful etiquette since they not only get people bugged but don't have the manners to let people see how well they did.

WhoIsYou wrote: 
It's also interesting to see war ships are being spawned now. War brigs will attract other war brigs instead of merchant brigs and well staffed brigs bring war frigates instead of galleons.

Oh now that's interesting. I may take out a Brig this weekend just to see what that's like.

...now that I think about it, I don't think many people knew that's what causes it. I really need to use the /bug feature more.
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Whitefire

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Shuranthae wrote: 
WhoIsYou wrote: 
It's also interesting to see war ships are being spawned now. War brigs will attract other war brigs instead of merchant brigs and well staffed brigs bring war frigates instead of galleons.

Oh now that's interesting. I may take out a Brig this weekend just to see what that's like.


You just need to be more careful. the WF's are restricted to 3 move tokens. The main problem is that they don't stall in the water as easily as MG. Not to mention that you have to hit them several more times compared to a MG.
[Aug 9, 2005 4:00:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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Oooh, war ships can spawn now? Always seemed strange before that only merch ships attacked you in a pillage.
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Gloraelin

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yerp, war ship spawn. i was out pillaging with some people, and we were in a war brig. we got at least 2 brigand war brigs hit us. i don't know about before i came on, that's just after!
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Rastigi



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My problem was that if I got over about 15 people on my war brig, I started spawning war frigates.

Ouch++
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Vote Bubba for President in '08, cause Shrimpin' is Great!
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grayskale

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Along the same lines, has anyone else noticed Imps not displaying their placed moves before the move phase starts? Several times last night I would be watching the other ship's move bar and it would be empty when the timer expired, yet they'd still make 3-4 moves (sailing sloops here). I suppose it could have been just a lag issue, but it was surprising nonetheless (almost as surprising as engaging what I had assumed was a MG and getting shot to hell and back... wasn't expecting the War Frig there)

-Longears
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[Oct 29, 2004 12:00:13 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Rastigi



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grayskale wrote: 
Along the same lines, has anyone else noticed Imps not displaying their placed moves before the move phase starts? Several times last night I would be watching the other ship's move bar and it would be empty when the timer expired, yet they'd still make 3-4 moves (sailing sloops here). I suppose it could have been just a lag issue, but it was surprising nonetheless (almost as surprising as engaging what I had assumed was a MG and getting shot to hell and back... wasn't expecting the War Frig there)

-Longears


You used to be able to 'out-wait' the brigand and place your move tiles at the last second. That was fixed a while back, and I'm guessing that what you're seeing is part of the result. If you put a move tile in at the last second, you might not see the brig put his moves in. But he still gets to.
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Bubbablue,
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Vote Bubba for President in '08, cause Shrimpin' is Great!
Cleaver wrote: 
Anything else? Please don't say, 'Make everything FREEEEEE!!1!!'

[Oct 29, 2004 12:08:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
jonmooers



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Rastigi wrote: 
You used to be able to 'out-wait' the brigand and place your move tiles at the last second. That was fixed a while back, and I'm guessing that what you're seeing is part of the result. If you put a move tile in at the last second, you might not see the brig put his moves in. But he still gets to.


Aye, I was seeing the same thing. Except I wasn't putting tokens in at the last second.
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Kuroshio

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[Oct 29, 2004 12:44:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Smolder

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Rastigi wrote: 

You used to be able to 'out-wait' the brigand and place your move tiles at the last second. That was fixed a while back.


After they fixed it, they put it back to the old way. And now, its kinda in the middleish. I noticed no matter how many cballs i put into imps, they never stop getting move tokens. It has been 9/0 and hes still using 2-3 tokens a turn.

Whats up with that!?
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Shuranthae

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I suppose I should wait until pillaging until I say it but... you people are crazy.

Also keep in mind that War Brigs and War Frigs are much easier to run than their counterpart Merch class ships, the same is true when Brigands are running them.
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fluffy3000



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I received ONLY right turn tokens in bnav last night. Of course I submitted it, and thankfully the silly brigand sailed far from me and didn't shoot me up.

/me sails in circles.....
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[Oct 29, 2004 1:44:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Rastigi



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fluffy3000 wrote: 
I received ONLY right turn tokens in bnav last night. Of course I submitted it, and thankfully the silly brigand sailed far from me and didn't shoot me up.

/me sails in circles.....


Did you click off the auto-sail?
eb1l auto-sail, what is that thing for anyway. losing?

EDIT: Did you take the helm from someone else? Turning off auto-sail and putting the dot on one of the turns is always the first thing I do in battle-nav, unless I really need straights.
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Bubbablue,
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Vote Bubba for President in '08, cause Shrimpin' is Great!
Cleaver wrote: 
Anything else? Please don't say, 'Make everything FREEEEEE!!1!!'

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ssandv



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I just got my first significant experience driving a war brig the other night, and the one thing that I noticed is that I was more successful against the frigates that spawned than the war brigs. I've become so accustomed to running the brigand ships out of tokens that the war brigs just wore me out, because I kept expecting them to be out, and in fact they were just placing late. (Late meaning after the hourglass resets, when I didn't place anything at the last second. I frequently place two or three moves after the hourglass resets myself, but I'm not used to brigands doing it unless I do it on the same turn.) The frigates, since they had only slightly more bodies on them than the war brigs did, weren't terribly difficult to run low on or out of tokens, and thus it wasn't that difficult to avoid the biiiig round iron thingies they kept throwing around...

The main point though, is that what Shur said is 100% correct--the war brig is so much easier to run for the bad guys as well as for us. We were on a frigate earlier when we had more people, but I missed most of that and I wasn't driving, so I didn't get to see how well the brigands did driving a more manned up frigate.

As far as the brigands being too smart or placing too late, I only saw one or two really psychic moves--The other times I got hammered were attributable to brain lapses or misclicks.
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Rastigi



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ssandv wrote: 
The frigates, since they had only slightly more bodies on them than the war brigs did...


Maybe I had too many Duckies on board. The frigates I was spawning often had 23+ brigs on them.
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Bubbablue,
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Vote Bubba for President in '08, cause Shrimpin' is Great!
Cleaver wrote: 
Anything else? Please don't say, 'Make everything FREEEEEE!!1!!'

[Oct 29, 2004 2:15:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
fluffy3000



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Rastigi wrote: 
fluffy3000 wrote: 
I received ONLY right turn tokens in bnav last night. Of course I submitted it, and thankfully the silly brigand sailed far from me and didn't shoot me up.

/me sails in circles.....


Did you click off the auto-sail?
eb1l auto-sail, what is that thing for anyway. losing?

EDIT: Did you take the helm from someone else? Turning off auto-sail and putting the dot on one of the turns is always the first thing I do in battle-nav, unless I really need straights.


It wasn't on auto-sail. At any time. I never use that blasted option. And I kept getting right turn tokens. ONLY right turn tokens. (it only happened that one time)


I was the only one who had bnavved the entire time, and I hadn't exited the puzzle and returned.

/me sails in more circles...
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[Oct 29, 2004 3:31:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Shuranthae

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So more along the Game Design part, could you Ringers up the number at which a Brigand ship is considered undermanned? I always find it annoying when I end up fighting 11 brigands in a Merch Brig when they could have fit on a Cutter. It seems like it'd be even more so if it applies to War Frigs, I mean why have 23 on a War Frig when they could just as easily fit on a War Brig?

Though on that subject, I'd really like to see Brigands of varying skill spawn. For example, instead of always spawning 11 brigands in a merch brig when I have seven in a Sloop, what about the occasional 7 "super brigands" in a Sloop or 20 weak ones in a war brig or something? Just for variety's sake...
[Oct 29, 2004 4:04:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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Shuranthae wrote: 
Just for variety's sake...

Cleaver is very gung-ho about a plan for this. In fact, it seems to be on the Big Board.
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roeslers



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And doesn't it seem that the brigands are now TAKING more from a losing ship than they used to? Like a lot more.
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Flak_88

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Only change I have noted is the ship makup. No AI or booty stealing changes.
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witchy1

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Shuranthae wrote: 
So more along the Game Design part, could you Ringers up the number at which a Brigand ship is considered undermanned? I always find it annoying when I end up fighting 11 brigands in a Merch Brig when they could have fit on a Cutter. It seems like it'd be even more so if it applies to War Frigs, I mean why have 23 on a War Frig when they could just as easily fit on a War Brig?

Though on that subject, I'd really like to see Brigands of varying skill spawn. For example, instead of always spawning 11 brigands in a merch brig when I have seven in a Sloop, what about the occasional 7 "super brigands" in a Sloop or 20 weak ones in a war brig or something? Just for variety's sake...


Exactly that happens when you're on the cusp of a level. I find that if I'm on a WB, and I get about 13-15 people on, I'll start spawning SAILOR WFs that have around 20 people on them. If I have fewer people I'll fight Imperial WBs with an approximately equal number of brigands.

On a similar note: you COULD get war vessels to spawn before. The trick was to be slightly understaffed, but above the point where they sent small ships after you. About 8-10 highish ranked people on a war brig used to do this. Now you just get the war vessels. Personally I don't like it becaue it costs me more in shot, even though I can still max them and take them out just the same.

On a simmilar note, have the payouts been adjusted down again? Just a bit this time? It seems like I'm averaging about 500-1k poe per battle less, which at the end of the trip adds up... Just wondering if anyone else has noticed this.
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Rastigi



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roeslers wrote: 
And doesn't it seem that the brigands are now TAKING more from a losing ship than they used to? Like a lot more.


Not that I've noticed.
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Vote Bubba for President in '08, cause Shrimpin' is Great!
Cleaver wrote: 
Anything else? Please don't say, 'Make everything FREEEEEE!!1!!'

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jonmooers



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Aye, oddly poor puzzle performance by jobbers aside, I think alot of the difficult I ran into was suddenly going up against the war brigs and war frigs and not the merchants. The AI might not be different, but I found the brigand war brigs (say that three times fast) were reacting differently than the merc brigs or merc galleons used to.

/me sighs

Time to stop resting and ranting and go re-learn how to help brigands with their iron deficieny.

Shuranthae wrote: 
Though on that subject, I'd really like to see Brigands of varying skill spawn. For example, instead of always spawning 11 brigands in a merch brig when I have seven in a Sloop, what about the occasional 7 "super brigands" in a Sloop or 20 weak ones in a war brig or something? Just for variety's sake...



And bring on the supper brigands...that sounds fun indeed.
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Rastigi



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witchy1 wrote: 
I find that if I'm on a WB, and I get about 13-15 people on, I'll start spawning SAILOR WFs that have around 20 people on them. If I have fewer people I'll fight Imperial WBs with an approximately equal number of brigands.


They weren't sailors. Mostly Sea Lords.
Definitely too many Duckies.
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Bubbablue,
SO of Bubba Gump Shrimpin' Co.
Vote Bubba for President in '08, cause Shrimpin' is Great!
Cleaver wrote: 
Anything else? Please don't say, 'Make everything FREEEEEE!!1!!'

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