• Play
  • About
  • News
  • Forums
  • Yppedia
  • Help
Welcome Guest   | Login
  Index  | Recent Threads  | Register  | Search  | Help  | RSS feeds  | View Unanswered Threads  
  Search  


Quick Go »
Thread Status: Normal
Total posts in this thread: 275
Posts: 275   Pages: 10   [ First Page | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 | Next Page | Last Page]
[Add To My Favorites] [Watch this Thread] [Post new Thread]
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 27315 times and has 274 replies Next Thread
Hermes
Developer
Member's Avatar


Joined: Sep 8, 2003
Posts: 1336
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Wow, a lot of good feedback. Thanks, guys! I hope the early preview was useful to you.

I'm gonna take a few moments here to clarify our intentions with a few things, as well as outline the stuff that we're going forward with adding to the original screenshot.
 
Remove them once for all. Really, 90% of the crews already uses Even and there is no reason why people working on the same ship should be treated differently. It was a nice idea, but it's outdated and useless. Keep things simple. If you remove them, the pile of PoE under Jobber Cut would make a lot more sense.

At the very least, we're going to try to slip those two columns together, probably as '70% Even' or something similar. However, we can't just gut the selection of Booty Shares down to merely Even. Even doesn't have nearly the ubiquity that you imply here; on Viridian, for example, Even is used by about half of the ocean's crews. This leaves 50% of the ocean utilizing alternate Booty Share types, generally to either provide a bit of a bonus to jobbers, or to reward hearties for advancing in rank within their crew. We can't swoop in and force everyone to go Even without removing a chunk of crew customization that a significant portion of our playerbase appears to be using.

It's a difficult situation, to say the least. I definitely agree, however, that Booty Shares are difficult for new players (and old players) to understand, which really grinds my gears.

Moving on to another area you guys are discussing at length...
 
Showing what stations are currently taken are useless for ships in port and often inaccurate for ships at sea. Unless it is specified by the officer who posts the notice, it might as well not be there at all.
 
Applying for a position does not equate being hired for said position*.

These are a couple very good reasons for not including an 'apply for a particular station' option in the overhaul. This sort of thing would require a bunch of new UI and functionality for something we can't even realistically enforce: if you've been 'hired' to bilge, we can't very well shackle you to the station. I could see the apply/hire for a puzzle option being very useful in locating gunners, however, but I think I'd rather look at that as another strong piece of evidence in favor of gunning swabbies. Basically, the solution I like here is just to put the tools in the hands of officers to be able to let their crew and jobbers play pretty much whichever puzzle they'd like while at sea. This would most likely involve swabbies that can gun, and maybe even a few extra swabbies aboard vessels. Want to bilge on that notice board pillage? Just apply for a job and go right ahead: the OIC can just move a bot or two around to accommodate you.
 
Personally, I don't care about the reason... I just hate waiting a minute or two before hitting my next application. Since the autochat says that a carrier pigeon has been dispatched with your application, how about something like, "Your application to job with <crew name> has been rejected."

While we agree internally that some additional feedback that your services are not required would be nice, this would be a non-trivial addition. Firstly, we can't remove the ignore button, since it would still be necessary on ships with 2+ officers on board. This leads to the troubling question of how best to shimmy three buttons together, or if that's even a good idea (that panel would start getting ugly and confusing). In addition to all that, there are some technical issues with getting a decline button running in the first place: the current ignore button doesn't require the client to phone back to the server at all, whereas any kind of decline button would require some black magic to make it play nicely with the accept button, and other people on board the ship hitting the accept or decline button, and so on and so forth. So, no, I'm afraid we won't see a 'decline' button in this pass, but I wouldn't completely rule it out for the future.
 
Why don't we copy the parlour tables model, letting the OIC (equivalent to a table creator) state clearly what kind of jobbers he/she is going to hire?

Our opinion internally is that while looking for jobbers this way for something like a Cursed Isle trip is totally fine and can be best done by hitting up your circle of hearties, we'd rather not make it easier for folks to exclude people when putting up jobbing posts on the Notice Board. The same thing goes for putting an OIC's Battle Navigation stat directly on the Voyages tab: you can certainly check that yourself, if you like, but I don't want to make it so people are either more inclined to exclude folks to protect their Battle Nav rating, or embarrassed or otherwise uncomfortable about posting a job on the board because their stats are too low.

All that said, the stuff you've suggested here that we're looking at adding to the Voyages tab version pictured in my original screenshot...
  • Booty Shares & Jobber Cut will end up in the same column somehow, most likely as '70% Even'.
  • The 'Jobbing with a Crew' section at the very bottom will be removed.
  • There'll be some way for the officer in charge to post a short 'Tweet' to their job offer explaining what they're doing, what they are looking for as far as jobbers, and so on. This'll be displayed as a tooltip over something to prevent it from taking up too much space. Whether space also allows us to display the OIC's pirate name and head, as well, remains to be seen; we'd like to do that, if we can. Stay tuned! ;)
  • A 'current/max crew' display has been added to /vwho. This is useful info, but we can't really get it on the Voyages tab proper for the technical reasons that a few of you have identified.
That's the current state of things. Thanks again for the good feedback on such short notice, folks. I'll see if I can't get a good "version 2.0" screenshot in the coming days. :)
[Dec 14, 2009 2:16:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com [Link]  Go to top 
ellopoppet

Member's Avatar


Joined: Apr 18, 2005
Posts: 4245
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
however, but I think I'd rather look at that as another strong piece of evidence in favor of gunning swabbies.


Unless the bots will be able to provide Gm+ help is it really worth it?
----------------------------------------
~Athens~ Hunter

Want to know who makes my avatars?
[Dec 14, 2009 2:32:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Patetch

Member's Avatar


Joined: Apr 22, 2006
Posts: 3340
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
 
however, but I think I'd rather look at that as another strong piece of evidence in favor of gunning swabbies.


Unless the bots will be able to provide Gm+ help is it really worth it?

For those of us that cannot gun and bnav it is! If you can do these two things then simply don't have a swabbie do it. Also if you have jobbers on board, surely there is someone who is better than a swabbie - so let them gun until someone better comes along. Not having a GM+ gunner on board is not a show stopper for the average pillage and I can't imagine going into a sinking situation understaffed in the first place.

Thanks so much, Hermes for letting us know the status of things. I especially appreciate hearing some of the reasons why things are being pondered or discarded.

I can understand the difficulties involved in having the ability to apply for particular stations. Having the 'tweet' function will be a step in the right direction to see about matching jobbers to navvers.

I really enjoy carp and I know that there are a lot of folks who do not. I feel that it is a shame when I end up on a voyage that doesn't really need me when there is another ship out that does.

Would it be possible to allow people to set a station preference and then have that noted when an OIC wants to order a person somewhere? Basically what I mean is when they click on a person's name as they prepare to order them to a station, there was an indicator of preferred stations.
----------------------------------------
Pletoo of Sage
[Dec 14, 2009 3:03:25 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
marundel

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jan 7, 2007
Posts: 2955
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
 
There is also the issue when pillages is doing roto-naving.

I have never seen this, so I suspect it's a minority problem (much less significant than say alting).

Our crew does this often - mostly on baghla pillages. We all throw a little PoE in a pot, and the bnaver with the best "take" at the end of the pillage wins the pot. It's great for sharing techniques, training newer officers, and generally contributes to the fun on the ship as the bnavs get into "smack talk" with each other. We've even had sorties where the jobbers started betting on the different navs.
----------------------------------------
Pizzahutpete on the Cerulean Ocean
Prince, Super Awesomeness
SO, Boochin' Drunks

Pizzahutpete everywhere, thanks to the merge
[Dec 14, 2009 3:13:33 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.thehomebrewstore.com    meadbrewer [Link]  Go to top 
zeplin411

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jun 20, 2007
Posts: 819
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
So, can you please explain me what's wrong with that? Because in all honesty I don't see any issue except the not-so-good bnaver's fear of getting less jobbers.
And why no one ever complained about the lower limit for parlour tables? Let's remove that too. It will result in booting unwanted partners, which is what is actually happening to pillage and what ruined the notice board.


Hermes said it best.
 
Our opinion internally is that while looking for jobbers this way for something like a Cursed Isle trip is totally fine and can be best done by hitting up your circle of hearties, we'd rather not make it easier for folks to exclude people when putting up jobbing posts on the Notice Board. The same thing goes for putting an OIC's Battle Navigation stat directly on the Voyages tab: you can certainly check that yourself, if you like, but I don't want to make it so people are either more inclined to exclude folks to protect their Battle Nav rating, or embarrassed or otherwise uncomfortable about posting a job on the board because their stats are too low.

----------------------------------------
Miget
Captain of Sealords Armada
Queen of Imperial Rednecks
 
Castor tells ye, "Ahoy mate. Did ye want the name "Awesome"? (That will run ye 12 shanghais)
A drunk moment with a flaggie saying "awesome"
[Dec 14, 2009 3:36:05 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gillie017

Member's Avatar


Joined: Aug 3, 2006
Posts: 1043
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Looking forward to the next screenshot.
 
There'll be some way for the officer in charge to post a short 'Tweet' to their job offer explaining what they're doing, what they are looking for as far as jobbers, and so on.

Call it a Harr! Tweet implies that we are some sort of bird... oh.. hang on... nevermind.
----------------------------------------
If a bird looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a Huntard .
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Gillie017 at Dec 14, 2009 3:42:19 PM]
[Dec 14, 2009 3:41:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

Member's Avatar


Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 6336
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

First off, the stuff Hermes listed as "being looked at" sounds great. Thanks!


 
 
Remove them once for all. Really, 90% of the crews already uses Even and there is no reason why people working on the same ship should be treated differently. It was a nice idea, but it's outdated and useless. Keep things simple. If you remove them, the pile of PoE under Jobber Cut would make a lot more sense.

At the very least, we're going to try to slip those two columns together, probably as '70% Even' or something similar. However, we can't just gut the selection of Booty Shares down to merely Even. Even doesn't have nearly the ubiquity that you imply here; on Viridian, for example, Even is used by about half of the ocean's crews. This leaves 50% of the ocean utilizing alternate Booty Share types, generally to either provide a bit of a bonus to jobbers, or to reward hearties for advancing in rank within their crew. We can't swoop in and force everyone to go Even without removing a chunk of crew customization that a significant portion of our playerbase appears to be using.

OK, several things here.

A crew that no one has logged onto for 4 years and has booty shares of Officer Club makes no difference to anyone. And, we can extend that: It isn't the number of crews that have stuff other than Even, it is the number of pillages being run that have something other than Even. I can also see how this varies by ocean, but Even seems to be by far the most popular on the NB of Cobalt.

Next, there are quite a few booty shares that are effectively very close to Even, they include Rank's Privilege, Jobber's Delight and Crew Loyalty.

So, the real question is: How often is the actual booty delivered up more than, say, 10-15% different than Even?
----------------------------------------
Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Dec 14, 2009 3:43:33 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Giemz

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jan 10, 2007
Posts: 515
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Can't it be done that decline button uses a macro of:
<switch to chat>
/tell <Piratename> Arr. I'm sorry but I can't take you this time. Try another pillage mate.
<Enter>
<remove last message from chat log and screen>
</switch back>

And it could be easier if there would be one pirate working on applications. Defaulted to pirate posting job offer, can be taken away using navigation table interface maybe? This officer in command is the only pirate having the power to job people and share booty.

And back to on-topic. A personal white and blacklist of crews and/or pillage commanders would be a very nice addition. Especially with the notification if a whitelisted pillage persona posts an offer. Yet I'm not sure if the database have the room and functionality for addition like this. Yet it just needs 2 bites*(number of crews+number of pirates)*number of pirates = 2*(400+20000)*20000= ~100Mb. And a check for every player whenever a pirate posts a pillage. It migth sound like a lot of network traffic but it won't be any bigger then a notification of a hearty logging in.

Edit: I think that better usage of game funcionality is to exchange crew-set shares into even/performance/elite. It is way simpler to a new pirate to understand and encourages better puzzling rather then better tarting about promotion.
----------------------------------------
Fair Winds
Barbarosa of Malachite
Mostly retired - burned out at the moment.
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Giemz at Dec 14, 2009 4:05:14 PM]
[Dec 14, 2009 4:02:23 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 18, 2007
Posts: 5707
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
 
however, but I think I'd rather look at that as another strong piece of evidence in favor of gunning swabbies.


Unless the bots will be able to provide Gm+ help is it really worth it?


For low-end pillages? Yes, assuming that OOO adds in at least one extra swabbie to hop on guns. For higher end pillages? Find/train a gunner.

I've been having fun recently doing low-end stuff. I hop in my dhow, set a course, flip on the jobber notice, and go without waiting for anyone to show up. When the applications come in, I take everyone without looking at them. I choose the dhow because I can pick up a jobber or two without losing swabbies, so I'm not screwed if the first two people showing up only know how to bilge. I usually end up with anywhere from two to eight jobbers by the end of the trip, depending on what the jobber pool looks like at the moment.

I can do this because I can dual gun/nav. But anyone trying to do this without that ability is screwed. And it's not like you need a lot of firepower while fighting weaker opponents: I can usually fill two guns and nav, and when I get a jobber who wants to gun but can only fill one gun per turn, I do fine that way, as well. It's enough to deal with the low-end ships, and if I'm not distracted by gunning, I can navigate better, even if I get fewer shots loaded.

So why do I do it, when I could make more money on elite pillages? Because it's funner. I don't like waiting, and this way I don't have to wait for a full ship. I don't even have to wait for one person. It's nicer when I get at least one jobber, but this way I don't have to sit in port five minutes waiting for the first whistle.

Now, if I was running more elite pillages, I would look for better gunners. But casual pillages? Not an issue.

(Incidentally, that's the reason I don't want battle navigation actively posted... I don't want to have to protect my stats. I have the same skills whether my ranking is grand-master (the highest I got to, IIRC) or as low as distinguished-- and I will cycle through those rankings, depending on what I've been targeting, and who I've been accepting on board. Thanks, Hermes (and other OOO staff), putting that issue to rest.)
----------------------------------------
Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
[Dec 14, 2009 4:21:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Karnisov

Member's Avatar


Joined: Apr 12, 2008
Posts: 821
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

wrs1864b wrote: 

And, this isn't a catch-22 thing where you can't get your bnav standing up unless you pillage and you can't pillage unless you have a good bnav standing. You can get your bnav standing up via the navy.


this is the reason i have little sympathy for the people complaining about possibly being unable to get jobbers if bnav stat is listed on the notice board. there exists a mechanic to work on your stats, although slightly inconvenient, and it does work. i got my bnav up to master level with the navy before i started running player pillys. apparently you can get it all the way up to GM with the navy, please correct me if i'm wrong.

i'd love to see master bnav as a minimum requirement to post a pilly on the notice board. i think if you're master level you probably understand the basic concepts of bnav. sub master players could job hearties directly or go practice more with the navy. as others have said, it can give new players a very bad impression of the game if you job on an incompetant bnav's pilly.
----------------------------------------
Karnisov
flinging poo on the forums because its more fun than playing your broken game
[Dec 14, 2009 5:19:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hermes
Developer
Member's Avatar


Joined: Sep 8, 2003
Posts: 1336
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
First off, the stuff Hermes listed as "being looked at" sounds great. Thanks!

I guess I should have used more forceful language. :P Three of those four bits are live internally as of this writing. The fourth (the 'tweet' bit) is trickier and will take some time, and we've yet to get a good sense as to how much space we have left on the tab, so it's gonna be at least a little while before I can say what form that's gonna take, as well as snag an updated screenshot for you lot.
 
A crew that no one has logged onto for 4 years and has booty shares of Officer Club makes no difference to anyone. And, we can extend that: It isn't the number of crews that have stuff other than Even, it is the number of pillages being run that have something other than Even. I can also see how this varies by ocean, but Even seems to be by far the most popular on the NB of Cobalt.

Inspired to search for still more specific data, we ran the query again, using 'player crews that have been in a battle since the beginning of December' as the definition of an 'active' crew. Using that criteria, ~80% of active crews on Cobalt use Even as a booty share, and ~55% of active crews on Viridian use Even. That said, the majority of crews that are not using Even are using either Jobber's Delight (jobber-pro) or Crew Loyalty (crew-pro).

With regards to your next point, Algol...
 
Next, there are quite a few booty shares that are effectively very close to Even, they include Rank's Privilege, Jobber's Delight and Crew Loyalty.

This isn't quite the case. The difference for a jobber between Even and either Crew Loyalty or Jobber's Delight is 25% (5 shares to 4, or 4 shares to 5). This is significant.

All that said, I'm reasonably convinced that since Even, Crew Loyalty and Jobber's Delight are the splits we are actually seeing being used, it's fine if we leave the option in for players to choose from the presets because a) it is making a difference in how much those crews are paying out to jobbers and b) the three options being used are pretty descriptive (a layman should know that 70% Even is not as good as 70% Jobber's Delight).

I suppose you could make the argument that "Crew Loyalty" doesn't mean much to a fresh player. If we had a better, more descriptive name, I'm sure we'd use it. :P
[Dec 14, 2009 5:26:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com [Link]  Go to top 
BobJanova

Member's Avatar


Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Posts: 5008
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Thanks for engaging in the discussion, Hermes.

 
* Booty Shares & Jobber Cut will end up in the same column somehow, most likely as '70% Even'.
* The 'Jobbing with a Crew' section at the very bottom will be removed.
* There'll be some way for the officer in charge to post a short 'Tweet' to their job offer explaining what they're doing, what they are looking for as far as jobbers, and so on. This'll be displayed as a tooltip over something to prevent it from taking up too much space. Whether space also allows us to display the OIC's pirate name and head, as well, remains to be seen; we'd like to do that, if we can. Stay tuned! ;)
* A 'current/max crew' display has been added to /vwho. This is useful info, but we can't really get it on the Voyages tab proper for the technical reasons that a few of you have identified.

All excellent, although the jobber cut could still be improved to make it clearer what the amount the jobber will get is. The text 'tweet' needs renaming but is also excellent.

Disappointed about the internal opinion on restricting pillages. This happens anyway, putting it on the board would simply stop jobbers wasting their and officers' time applying for things they won't get anyway. Adding some form of rejection text would help with this too.

On a similar note, please allow us to check jobbers' stats when we're on a puzzle (usually dnav) by putting a text version into the Ahoy panel (like what bots do).
----------------------------------------
Bobjanova on Viridian and Malachite
Shops and stalls with fair and profitable wages for all: Jubilee, Napi, Chelydra
Stripped/Barely Dressed (Malachite)
Phantasm/Reign of Chaos (Viridian)
[Dec 14, 2009 5:33:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
xelto

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 18, 2007
Posts: 5707
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
this is the reason i have little sympathy for the people complaining about possibly being unable to get jobbers if bnav stat is listed on the notice board. there exists a mechanic to work on your stats, although slightly inconvenient, and it does work.

I understand why you're saying this-- I've jobbed onto pillages where the navigator definitely needed more training-- but I don't want to puzzle grind, which I consider navy work to be. And putting the stat up on the page is asking for a elitist culture in regards to that one stat.

 
i'd love to see master bnav as a minimum requirement to post a pilly on the notice board.

You want to exclude 3/4 of the potential navigators on the ocean from being able to post pillages!? I can see-- maybe-- above able. I have a hard time choking down even requiring above proficient, though, let alone master. Besides, too many of the upper bnav ranked people are just too uptight. I prefer casual pillages, by and large. I often don't want to see legendary bnav.

I want a whistle stat. If the person is distinguished or above in whistle spam, I know to avoid the pillage.
----------------------------------------
Gurndigarn on Emerald Ocean
"Oh, come on. You jobbed onto a ship called the Cursed Isle Raider and you expected *refined*?"
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by xelto at Dec 14, 2009 5:53:51 PM]
[Dec 14, 2009 5:51:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
treepirate88

Member's Avatar


Joined: Feb 21, 2005
Posts: 912
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 

On a similar note, please allow us to check jobbers' stats when we're on a puzzle (usually dnav) by putting a text version into the Ahoy panel (like what bots do).


THIS

Please. In the interest of dnaving to help your pillages, what logic goes to prove that you should have to hop off the station to check jobbers stats while hindering your pillage/puzzle performance.
----------------------------------------
Expendable - Malachite
Lock it up.
Apollo says, "Expendable, I will now spank you with extreme prejudice"
[Dec 14, 2009 5:53:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Quack_688



Joined: Feb 20, 2008
Posts: 620
Status: Offline

Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Hermes wrote: 
Inspired to search for still more specific data, we ran the query again, using 'player crews that have been in a battle since the beginning of December' as the definition of an 'active' crew. Using that criteria, ~80% of active crews on Cobalt use Even as a booty share, and ~55% of active crews on Viridian use Even. That said, the majority of crews that are not using Even are using either Jobber's Delight (jobber-pro) or Crew Loyalty (crew-pro).

I don't have access to information like "total number of pillages run on each booty scheme", but simply counting crews (even crews with at least one battle this month) over-represents those tiny crews which don't have a large impact. Looking at the 40 most famous crews on Viridian, I found 33 evens, 6 jobber's delights, and 1 cruel shelf. That doesn't say how frequently those crews run pillages, but it still suggests that custom schemes (especially the "screw the jobbers" varieties) aren't really used by half the ocean. Sure, some people use them, but considering the confusion they cause to new (and old) players, I'd have to ask if they provide a net benefit to the game. If decisions are going to made based on how popular existing features are (some people use cruel shelf, so let's keep it), perhaps it's worth considering how popular performance-based pay is in blockades, and how popular it would be on pillages if navvers were given the option to use it.
 
This isn't quite the case. The difference for a jobber between Even and either Crew Loyalty or Jobber's Delight is 25% (5 shares to 4, or 4 shares to 5). This is significant.

Throw in the restock cut and it's much less significant. I'm going to try running some numbers on a ship with one navver and 6 jobbers. I'll compare even and jobber's delight, since that seems to be the most popular custom setting.

Case A - 73% jobber cut (using the new terminology), even
Navver gets 27% for restock
73% divided using even
7 shares total (1 1 1 1 1 1 1)
Navver gets 27% + (73% * 1 / 7) = 27% + 10.43% = 37.43%
Each jobber gets (73% * 1 / 7) = 10.43%

Case B - 70% jobber cut, jobber's delight
Navver gets 30% for restock
70% divided using jobber's delight
34 shares total (4 5 5 5 5 5 5)
Navver gets 30% + (70% * 4 / 34) = 30% + 8.24% = 38.24%
Each jobber gets (70% * 5 / 34) = 10.29%

Conclusion: "73% jobber cut, even" is better for jobbers than "70% jobber cut, jobber's delight".

Now, are random jobbers going to do that math? Or will they just go for "jobber's delight", making the false assumption that a 3% difference in jobber cut doesn't really matter? Considering how many officers fail to do the drinks math and simply buy rum, I really doubt that many jobbers are going to run those numbers.
 
It's a difficult situation, to say the least. I definitely agree, however, that Booty Shares are difficult for new players (and old players) to understand, which really grinds my gears.

If you really want to keep custom schemes, how about replacing jobber cut and divvy scheme with a figure (percentage or pile of coins) which approximates what share a jobber's going to get? With the original information ("20% jobber cut, even") available by mouse-overing. I'd prefer a percentage, actually - a pile of coins might be misinterpreted to mean "highest payouts per jobber", when what we're really talking about is "highest share per jobber". The estimate would be rough as guts, and require a lot of assumptions, but it could make life easier for random jobbers (though it's not perfect by any means).
 
There'll be some way for the officer in charge to post a short 'Tweet' to their job offer explaining what they're doing, what they are looking for as far as jobbers, and so on. This'll be displayed as a tooltip over something to prevent it from taking up too much space. Whether space also allows us to display the OIC's pirate name and head, as well, remains to be seen; we'd like to do that, if we can. Stay tuned! ;)

I still think showing OIC heads is part of a OOO conspiracy to stimulate the hat market and get more doubs sunk - but now that I've said that, we'll get them for sure :-p. The tweet line sounds great, I'm looking forward to version 2.0. Oh, and I'm glad that gunning swabbies are still being spoken about.
Karnisov wrote: 
i'd love to see master bnav as a minimum requirement to post a pilly on the notice board.

Oh, wow. I thought I was being ballsy when I suggested that ables should be blocked from noticeboard jobbing. Now that able is the bottom 25%, and not the bottom 50%, perhaps we can revisit that discussion. But blocking three-quarters of bnavvers from using the board is overkill.
Bobjanova wrote: 
On a similar note, please allow us to check jobbers' stats when we're on a puzzle (usually dnav) by putting a text version into the Ahoy panel (like what bots do).

Absolutely. I'll go find a thread to bump.

Wildturkey, Malachite
[Dec 14, 2009 6:47:53 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gillie017

Member's Avatar


Joined: Aug 3, 2006
Posts: 1043
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
 
A crew that no one has logged onto for 4 years and has booty shares of Officer Club makes no difference to anyone. And, we can extend that: It isn't the number of crews that have stuff other than Even, it is the number of pillages being run that have something other than Even. I can also see how this varies by ocean, but Even seems to be by far the most popular on the NB of Cobalt.


Inspired to search for still more specific data, we ran the query again, using 'player crews that have been in a battle since the beginning of December' as the definition of an 'active' crew. Using that criteria, ~80% of active crews on Cobalt use Even as a booty share, and ~55% of active crews on Viridian use Even. That said, the majority of crews that are not using Even are using either Jobber's Delight (jobber-pro) or Crew Loyalty (crew-pro).

Have to ask... what are the crews on the other oceans using?

If only three of the booty share options are being used in practice, could the other 6 be dropped from the game to simplify matters?

 
perhaps it's worth considering how popular performance-based pay is in blockades, and how popular it would be on pillages if navvers were given the option to use it.

This would be one of the best fixes to the game. Give navers the option to use the blockade pay settings to reward quality puzzling and NOT pay lazers. It's demoralising working on a big ship and knowing that those who are there doing nothing or on a station and not puzzling are getting exactly the same pay as those who are puzzling well. Where is the incentive to work if you can be paid to do nothing?
----------------------------------------
If a bird looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a Huntard .
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Gillie017 at Dec 14, 2009 7:06:35 PM]
[Dec 14, 2009 6:53:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

Member's Avatar


Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 6336
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Hermes wrote: 
With regards to your next point, Algol...
 
Next, there are quite a few booty shares that are effectively very close to Even, they include Rank's Privilege, Jobber's Delight and Crew Loyalty.

This isn't quite the case. The difference for a jobber between Even and either Crew Loyalty or Jobber's Delight is 25% (5 shares to 4, or 4 shares to 5). This is significant.

Yes, but I wrote "effectively very close" and "So, the real question is: How often is the actual booty delivered up more than, say, 10-15% different than Even?"

Wildturkey nailed the detailed analysis that I was just guestimating about. I actually expected a slightly larger difference than he showed, maybe in the ~5% range, where his numbers are <3%. Of course, more crew members will make this difference larger, but I suspect that in most cases, actual booty delivered is less than 10% from Even. I don't think such a small difference is worth the complications it adds to the game, I don't think it is worth the space it takes up on the notice board.


On the subject of showing stats and screening:

I agree that bnavvers already do a lot of screening *IF THEY WANT TO*, and OOO choosing to not make it easier to do the screening is hurting the game. It wastes both the jobber's and the bnavver's time. If a bnavver is too selective, they won't get enough. Even a jobber with great stats is going to look at a WB pillage with leg+ requirements as something to avoid, it won't load and it probably won't be fun. A Proficient bnavver accepting everyone will likely be hurt by a high stat jobber because it will cause the spawns to go up to the point where they probably can't handle it.

I do not think the NB should be restricted to master+, *maybe* with the introduction of Proficient, not letting Ables use the notice board might work. The goal should be to get ride of the worst of the worst, the bnavvers that give new players a bad introduction to the game. Even that, I would say showing the bnavver's standing would be better.
----------------------------------------
Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Dec 14, 2009 8:21:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Patetch

Member's Avatar


Joined: Apr 22, 2006
Posts: 3340
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Just checking a couple of ideas to see if they would be possible / practical...

Battle navigator stats
I am, still not comfortable with the designation of the OIC - yes, it can be the person who posts the jobbing notice, or the one who is the highest ranking officer, or the one who has the helm, but it isn't necessarily any of these people. Therefore arbitrarily taking the stats of any of these people is not always going to be accurate, and if it is a means to be more prominent on the notice board, I can imagine that there will be those that will deliberately misrepresent things.

What if...
...In the voyage configuration menu, there was a spot to designate the battle navigator? It would probably need to allow for several options such as: "myself," "piratename," "officer training," or "rotating navigators." Then, if the navigator is one person, put their stat information on the linked vessel info page rather than directly on the noticeboard, this makes the info one-click away for those who feel it is important without making it prominently displayed. If the navigator is in training or several people are taking turns, then that can be indicated in place of the stats. (While we are at it, might as well allow an XO to be designated as well, but that is fodder for another discussion. Another advantage to designating the battle navigator could be that they are automatically given control in battle, even if they haven't clicked on the helm - this also could help point the way towards separating the navigation puzzles.)

Jobber stats
What if...
...Instead of having a specific 'hiring for X station' the hiring officer had the opportunity to designate which stats they are interested in? In other words, they could check off which ship duties / fighting skills they planned on looking at (for example a trip to Atlantis (sadly) doesn't need rumble skills or someone who already has their gunner(s) don't necessarily need to look for more.)

The next part would require a change in the ahoy messages so that instead of just saying, "PirateX has applied..." it would name the pirate and show the requested stats. This procedure would make screening a little less time consuming, which will speed up the jobbing process, without necessarily making any promises like hiring for a specific station would. It also doesn't convey the message of being stat conscious nearly as much as the parlor game system would.
----------------------------------------
Pletoo of Sage
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by Patetch at Dec 14, 2009 9:26:03 PM]
[Dec 14, 2009 9:22:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
zeplin411

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jun 20, 2007
Posts: 819
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Karnisov wrote:
 
i'd love to see master bnav as a minimum requirement to post a pilly on the notice board. i think if you're master level you probably understand the basic concepts of bnav. sub master players could job hearties directly or go practice more with the navy. as others have said, it can give new players a very bad impression of the game if you job on an incompetant bnav's pilly.


My bnav stat may bounce from Dist to Master lately, mostly Master. Before I started memming the ocean I spent more than a year at Renowned bnav. So by your resoning most of the time I want to pilly I would be prevented from posting a job offer on the notice board and my only options are sailing around with the navy or depending on my hearties. That does not sound like fun to me. That also sounds not fun for any officer that is just getting the hang of bnav, but hasn't figured out the magic scoring curve. Heck you would force about 80% of my pilaging officers and above in my crew to only navy and most of them have been playing this game as long or longer than you have.

Not everyone can be a elite super star like you. In fact you are the minority in the game, but sadly in the majority on the forums.
----------------------------------------
Miget
Captain of Sealords Armada
Queen of Imperial Rednecks
 
Castor tells ye, "Ahoy mate. Did ye want the name "Awesome"? (That will run ye 12 shanghais)
A drunk moment with a flaggie saying "awesome"
[Dec 14, 2009 9:44:26 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
cgg1305

Member's Avatar


Joined: Sep 17, 2006
Posts: 451
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Hermes, thank you a lot for listening and providing internal feed-back.
 
There'll be some way for the officer in charge to post a short 'Tweet' to their job offer explaining what they're doing, what they are looking for as far as jobbers, and so on. This'll be displayed as a tooltip over something to prevent it from taking up too much space. Whether space also allows us to display the OIC's pirate name and head, as well, remains to be seen; we'd like to do that, if we can. Stay tuned! ;)

Great!
 
A 'current/max crew' display has been added to /vwho. This is useful info, but we can't really get it on the Voyages tab proper for the technical reasons that a few of you have identified

Another useful information and thanks for confirming that a live update of the board is not possible.

Now things I don't like...
 
Even doesn't have nearly the ubiquity that you imply here

The fact that is it is use doesn't mean it is useful or right. I guess when you lowered the maximum restocking cut to 30% there were a lot of crews using a higher percentage, so what?
These booty shares are just confusing for new players as well as for old salts and besides, they are unfair. Why people working on the same ship should be treated differently? Do you want to reward your jobbers? Very well, assign them a +1 at the end of the pillage. Lower your restock. There are already tools for giving a little extra and they are enough. I believe psychologically a +1 works better than a silly Jobber's Delight share. As for Crew Loyalty, I don't think many players bother jobbing for a crew using that share, unless they don't know what it means and in such a circumstance it's nothing but a scam.
 
Our opinion internally is that while looking for jobbers this way for something like a Cursed Isle trip is totally fine and can be best done by hitting up your circle of hearties, we'd rather not make it easier for folks to exclude people when putting up jobbing posts on the Notice Board.

And ignoring applications without even giving a feed-back is fine for you, guys? If I was a new player I would be more glad to know in advance that a crew has set a requirement I don't have (so maybe I'll spend some more time with the Navy trying to improve my standings) rather than waiting in vain for an invitation that won't ever come and asking myself why. Let's not be hypocritical, hiring officers do have minimum requirements when they job people... the mechanics themselves allow you to screen your jobbers. Why screening applications has to be so sneaky? Don't you think more transparency would be beneficial to the game?

New player. Pillaging with a crew. "What's that?". Apply. Nothing happens. "Woah, this game sucks".
New player. Pillaging with a crew. Minimum requirement: Master. "Dang, I'm only Able but I really want to try that, let's work on bilging and try again later".
----------------------------------------
Pishkirlin of Emerald
[Dec 14, 2009 10:19:56 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
cgg1305

Member's Avatar


Joined: Sep 17, 2006
Posts: 451
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Miget wrote: 
Not everyone can be a elite super star like you. In fact you are the minority in the game, but sadly in the majority on the forums.

Someone has to learn to be more tolerant here?
Even if I don't agree with you, it doesn't mean I don't respect your opinion as a player. I would have never said to anybody "Sadly you exist". Sorry, you booched it.
----------------------------------------
Pishkirlin of Emerald
[Dec 14, 2009 10:42:51 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BehindCurtai

Member's Avatar


Joined: May 25, 2004
Posts: 12589
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
i'd love to see master bnav as a minimum requirement to post a pilly on the notice board. i think if you're master level you probably understand the basic concepts of bnav.


Gad, NO.

First, Master is something like the top 25% of all players. That's not "basic competent", that's "Elite".

Second, BNav rating is horribly booched. Whatever it rates, it's not how good you are at battle nav.

Until that gets fixed, any sort of "BNav rating is a requirement to post a job" is a bad idea.
----------------------------------------
"We're trying to find the error bars on that number"

Dylan wrote: 
Why buy sham poo when real poo is so readily available

[Dec 14, 2009 10:57:29 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://StrictConstitution.BlogSpot.Com [Link]  Go to top 
zeplin411

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jun 20, 2007
Posts: 819
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Miget wrote: 
Not everyone can be a elite super star like you. In fact you are the minority in the game, but sadly in the majority on the forums.

cgg1305 wrote:
Someone has to learn to be more tolerant here?
Even if I don't agree with you, it doesn't mean I don't respect your opinion as a player. I would have never said to anybody "Sadly you exist". Sorry, you booched it.


What i meant by "sadly in the majority on the forums" was there are not enough new (playing less than 6 months) or below average (in the respected to master average stats) players here on the forums to express what the majority of the ocean populations have to deal with. I have always taken a stand for those players. Those newer and below average players are 50% of my crew so I speak for them and how they like to play this game. Before you say it, yes my crew is known as a training ground for new players and I wouldn't have it any other way.
----------------------------------------
Miget
Captain of Sealords Armada
Queen of Imperial Rednecks
 
Castor tells ye, "Ahoy mate. Did ye want the name "Awesome"? (That will run ye 12 shanghais)
A drunk moment with a flaggie saying "awesome"
[Dec 14, 2009 11:54:10 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Fjandr

Member's Avatar


Joined: Sep 16, 2005
Posts: 688
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
Disappointed about the internal opinion on restricting pillages. This happens anyway, putting it on the board would simply stop jobbers wasting their and officers' time applying for things they won't get anyway. Adding some form of rejection text would help with this too.

I think the intent is to not make the discrimination so blatantly obvious to those who might not otherwise realize it exists. It might not be as widespread as it seems, but if it is it might drive away a good portion of the 75% sub-Master players who support the existence of standing slots above them.
 
On a similar note, please allow us to check jobbers' stats when we're on a puzzle (usually dnav) by putting a text version into the Ahoy panel (like what bots do).

This, this, a million times THIS.
----------------------------------------
Nemesis wrote "And by special request - it now auto-bans people who say "pilly" and "lucker"."

Fjandr
Captain of Yeyi Xoxocti Coatl - Emerald
Projects: Weathered Helm
[Dec 15, 2009 1:27:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
cgg1305

Member's Avatar


Joined: Sep 17, 2006
Posts: 451
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Miget wrote: 
What i meant by "sadly in the majority on the forums" was there are not enough new (playing less than 6 months) or below average (in the respected to master average stats) players here on the forums to express what the majority of the ocean populations have to deal with. I have always taken a stand for those players. Those newer and below average players are 50% of my crew so I speak for them and how they like to play this game.

What was particularly annoying in your post was the lack of respect for another player's opinion you shown labelling him as "elite super star" and saying it's sad that such kind of players are the majority here. I believe we discuss from player to player and equal to equal, there is no room for labels.
Stating that people who think like you are the majority is also terribly wrong. I suspect that, while you claim to speak for someone else and how they like to play the game, you actually speak for you and how you like to play the game. Yes, because assuming you presented the problem to the community you lead, you probably presented the information from your perspective, stressing on the issues you think are more important and neglecting those that in your opinion are not. It's in the nature of the human beings and I'm not blaming you for that.
We respect your opinion as long as you don't take upon yourself the right of speaking for the majority of players, because that is unacceptable.

Sorry for derailing a bit the thread. Back on the tracks, I would like to ask Hermes what the developers think the sorting parameter in the crew column should be. I really hope it won't be the alphabetical order.
Beside the diplomatic status I think it could be interesting to implement a rating system calculated according to the win/loss ratio over the last 7 days (as it is recorded in the battle info page http://OCEAN.puzzlepirates.com/yoweb/crew/battleinfo.wm?crewid= ). If the ratio is 5:1, display 5 stars (or ships, jolly rogers or whatever), if it's 2:1, 2 stars and so on till no stars for negative ratio. There should be a minimum number of battle fought as well, because it makes no sense rating with 5 stars a crew that has fought (and won) just one battle.
I'll come up with a mock-up of such a suggestion later.
----------------------------------------
Pishkirlin of Emerald
[Dec 15, 2009 1:39:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Loren_S

Member's Avatar


Joined: Mar 23, 2006
Posts: 656
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Crewcut/Shares
If there are customization options someone will set them. Obviously crewshares/divisiontype are not understood fully by anybody, even you Hermes put out some figures that are wrong/not relevant. Personaly I was very surprised that 0% Cruel Shelf is actualy a pretty favorable setting for an atlantis WF and the same as 30% Even on most sloops.

It might be too big an issue to tackle for the next patch, but its obviously very brocken and should be fixed sometime soon.
I perfer a performance pay option and a per shiptype and battle fixed poe-amount. This not only is fair to all parties, but also provides direct positive feedback for good puzzling.

Officername and Head:
The name is important, the head I can do without if space is tight.

Tweet:
I still perfer it to be shown directly. At least the beginning of it, a full text can be with the mouseover.

Appy feedback:
Sorting out accept/decline/ignore on the severside probably is a nightmare. Still its something missing.

Would it be possilbe to have the application just timeout on the clientside after say 1 minute. Maybe a message like: "There was no answer to to your application. Maybe the ship <insert ship> does not need you help currently. Try to apply for some other voyage."
(And make sure the jobbing-mission does not apply again there)

Battle records:
Very good idea to include the battlerecords roundup. Thats a rather good indication of a likely good pillage. It fair to the low end also, as even bad officers win a sizeable number of battles. It would also encourage newer officers to join established crews and provide them with an incentive to train them.
Again: A very good, and supposedly easy thing to to add.
(If we keep the officerhead, it can be used to determine the expression, much better than voyage win-record)

Sorting, other types
In the upcoming sample screenshot please include a discription of the sorting/selection options. This is very important for the overall usability.

Also please show us the display of the other voyagetypes and the order of them showing.
----------------------------------------
CoatOSilver, Captain of Forget About It, Retired King of ©©©, Sage
[Dec 15, 2009 2:31:11 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

Member's Avatar


Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 6336
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

One thing Hermes didn't mention was the "hunting for..." information.

Again, I strongly urge OOO to take this off the jobbing board. Just how often are people dnavving? How often is the spawn significantly changed due to the dnavving? By "significantly change", I mean on the same order of a difference as the standings of the crew make, e.g. Sailors vs Imperials.

I suspect this is a case of someone having put a bunch of work into adding this configuration stuff and it hurts to see that your work is really irrelevant. Don't let that cloud your judgment. It takes up a huge amount of space and is doubt that it is even rarely accurate or relevant.

Again, something along the lines of what the ship currently (or most recently) spawned would be much more accurate and relevant, although even that wouldn't be perfect. For example, a ship just starting to load would have a lower might ring than it should, but once a few hearties/crew members join the pillage, it will be pretty close, and certainly more close than a voyage config of "hard brigands" (whatever that means).

If you can't put something like the spawn strength in, then just leave that kind of information to the officer's text. If the OiC is *really* hunting barbarians, they will have to be putting in a bunch of extra work anyway, having them type it into the text isn't much more work. On the other hand, letting people click a button on the voyage config and do nothing else gives very misleading results.
----------------------------------------
Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Dec 15, 2009 5:06:29 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
BobJanova

Member's Avatar


Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Posts: 5008
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

 
It [stat screening] might not be as widespread as it seems, but if it is it might drive away a good portion of the 75% sub-Master players who support the existence of standing slots above them.

Any 'elite' voyage (generally those hunting Hard to Very Hard and on an interarch) will screen, usually for Renowned. Most other people will screen for not being Broad/Able because that signifies a serial lazer.

There aren't 75% sub-Master players. In any individial puzzle there are 75%, and ability in the different puzzles will have some correlation so it won't be the totally independent ~30% (81/256), but I would think there would be at least 50% who have Master in at least one of the 4 duty puzzles

Also, if stat screening is that widely used, those players will currently be getting a terrible experience: applying for pillages and never getting a response. If they could see what they needed to do to get on the higher ranked pillages, they'd be more likely to stick around to obtain it. I put the work in to reach Renowned because my crew used to run elites which I was not allowed to join until I did.

(Also I don't like your use of the word 'discrimination', although technically it is discriminating by skill ... it's like saying that you discriminate by only hiring a qualified electrician to rewire your house.)

 
I think it could be interesting to implement a rating system calculated according to the win/loss ratio over the last 7 days (as it is recorded in the battle info page

I like this idea very much. It's gamable for a small crew (by one skilled officer going out and beating some easy brigands on a green route), so perhaps display 'unknown' if the crew's done less than say 10 battles a day. But it's hard to game for a genuine pillaging crew and it's a good guide of success in the crew's chosen type of pillaging. Again, it doesn't help for non-pillage voyage types, but pillaging is where the noticeboard is mostly used for informative purposes (instead of just recruiting people to the trip).

 
If you can't put something like the spawn strength in, then just leave that kind of information to the officer's text.

Agreed. The officer's text will be more informative than any automated heuristic for spawn strength, given the lack of available information before a voyage begins.

 
I still perfer [free text] to be shown directly. At least the beginning of it, a full text can be with the mouseover.

Yes, something like shop news would be excellent, with the first 'line' in the table cell (about 20 characters I guess) being shown and the full text available on a popup.
----------------------------------------
Bobjanova on Viridian and Malachite
Shops and stalls with fair and profitable wages for all: Jubilee, Napi, Chelydra
Stripped/Barely Dressed (Malachite)
Phantasm/Reign of Chaos (Viridian)
[Dec 15, 2009 5:26:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

Member's Avatar


Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 6336
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Hermes wrote: 
The same thing goes for putting an OIC's Battle Navigation stat directly on the Voyages tab: you can certainly check that yourself, if you like, but I don't want to make it so people are either more inclined to exclude folks to protect their Battle Nav rating, or embarrassed or otherwise uncomfortable about posting a job on the board because their stats are too low.

You don't know your player base very well. As ask any OiC how "uncomfortable" the average solid/able pirate is at asking for a gun order. ;-) Do you really think that showing the bnavver's standing would significantly reduce the number of players who think they are good enough to post to the notice board? Yes, the Able/Proficient bnavver may well get fewer jobbers, but asking a lot of jobbers to have less fun so that one bnavver can have more fun is being penny-wise and pound-foolish.
----------------------------------------
Algol can not assert the truth of all statements in this post and still be consistent.
[Dec 15, 2009 6:13:40 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
cgg1305

Member's Avatar


Joined: Sep 17, 2006
Posts: 451
Status: Offline
Re: Department of Piracy Affairs: Voyages Tab Sneak Peek Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Hermes wrote: 
Our opinion internally is that while looking for jobbers this way for something like a Cursed Isle trip is totally fine and can be best done by hitting up your circle of hearties, we'd rather not make it easier for folks to exclude people when putting up jobbing posts on the Notice Board.

All of a sudden I have just realized how hypocritical (no offense to you, Hermes) this statement is. So, you have designed a game where if your performance is below the average you are in the lowest rank (before Proficient came out) and where if you score a Fine you can cause serious troubles to your crewmates and... you don't want us to exclude people?! Sorry, that is just bullcannon.

I'm sorry if it might sound a bit harsh, I do really appreciate your work and the efforts you make, but you can't stubbornly keep thinking that the game is flawless and that's the player's fault if it's not played in the way you conceived it. There are too many aspects regarding which your point of view is five years late.
So, why for instance don't you start increasing the human output, instead of coming out with such paternalistic and inapt claims?
----------------------------------------
Pishkirlin of Emerald
[Dec 15, 2009 6:56:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Posts: 275   Pages: 10   [ First Page | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 | Next Page | Last Page]
[Show Printable Version of Thread] [Post new Thread]

Puzzle Pirates™ © 2001-2016 Grey Havens, LLC All Rights Reserved.   Terms · Privacy · Affiliates