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Lizzie

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Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory... Reply to this Post
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Ours is 2/2/3/4/4 15% which I think is fair enough. If you're a good jobber without a crew I almost certainly will ask you to join at the end of the voyage. And we're fair about making pirates. :)
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Ravine
Black Death, Midnight

[Sep 5, 2003 9:14:20 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
burrito



Joined: Aug 18, 2003
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Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory... Reply to this Post
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Lizzie wrote: 
Jota wrote: 

So I've got to ask... why do you especially prefer "TWENTY!" for everyone over, say, "one" for everyone?


Obviously because it sounds like so much more. :)



Yah, of course. ;D
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-Peppy, Senior Officer of the Salty Mouthfuls
"Yarr, thar be stairs here."

1st Place, First Drinking Contest, Gaea 24 Hour Bash
2nd Place, Cayte's Sword Tournament, 9/29
[Sep 5, 2003 10:19:10 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    burrito+OMG [Link]  Go to top 
54x

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Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory... Reply to this Post
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Because people who don't grasp the concept of ratios love to see numbers like TWENTY! being thrown around.

Can I have this clarified, is it not possibly to use numbers between 5 and 10, and between 10 and 20? It would be good for making more subtle differences between ranks, eg:

4/5/6/7/8/9/20% or something like that.
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Diamondblade, Cartographer, Crimson Tide.
from Midnight.
Dear sir or madam can you read my book, it took me years to write, will you take a look?
[Sep 6, 2003 3:01:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.mjwhitehead.com/    raasike54    secondlight5454    32987700 [Link]  Go to top 
Morrigan

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Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory... Reply to this Post
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I don't know how many other people have been seeing this, but often if I'm standing at the docks talking, I'll get 3 or 4 job offers from crew just passing through who are offering jobs to everyone within sight.

Without fail it looks like it did tonight
1/1/2/3/4/5/30%

If you're not getting applicants to your board notice, this is probably why.

Also, it's so rude to wander into a chat circle and just hit "invite to job for crew' for everyone and then leave. I make note of which crews do it and make sure to pillage them at least once.
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~Beryl
Captain of the Pernicious Plunderers
Queen of the Alliterative Aristocracy
Owner- Terran Wear, Gaea
[Aug 9, 2005 4:00:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Russ



Joined: Aug 5, 2003
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Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory... Reply to this Post
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I have quite a new crew and thanks to this thread I have adjusted the shares of the crew from similar to what you are talking about to 2/2/3/3/4/4 30%......Does that sound fair?

If it doesn't, please bear in mind we're still a fairly new, small crew so need the slightly inflated crew cut to build the coffers a little

I originally had something like 1/1/2/3/4/5/5 40% and did keep getting crap jobbers......since changing it in one night I recruited 2 new crew members

Your comments are appreciated, I'm still learning as you can see here so please no flaming for having an unfair cut to start with.....I read these forums avidly for tips and advice to try and improve.

Thanks, Shortjohn
[Aug 9, 2005 4:00:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lizzie

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Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory... Reply to this Post
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Hey Russ, no flaming from me. I don't think anyone will give you a hard time, although they would have if you'd posted
"SHTUUP u dum JerKs mi cru cuTT kix asss!!!!1111111"

You're actually interested in improving. That makes you cool. :)
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Ravine
Black Death, Midnight

[Sep 7, 2003 5:46:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
DeTheGreat



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a few thoughts on the subject... Reply to this Post
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After having read this thread I'm sure I'll change my numbers a LITTLE bit, but here's mine, and I tend to have problems finding jobbers.


Jobber - 2 shares
Cabin Person - 2 shares
Pirate - 3 shares
Officer - 4 shares
Captain - 5 shares
Crew cut 30%

I did this for several reasons, not the least of which is that I"m saving up for a new boat. But also that promotion is based on two things, ability and length of service. Anyone who has sailed with me a while and has the requirements (posted in private on the crew page) will be promoted to pirate, or if there are positions open, officer immediately. So the pay scale gives motivation to do well (IMO.) I originally had jobber pay set at 1 share, but after thinking about it briefly decided that no one was worth that little, and if they were they should probably be planked anyways.

As far as foraging or trade routes go, profits are not put into the booty, but on trade runs everyone is told ahead of time that it's a trade run and I pay everyone a flat fee at the end of the trip. (varies from 15-40 poe per person depending on profits and distance.)

 
Teamwork, aye -- and aren't your jobbers a part of your team too, even if only temporarily? ~triskaideka


NO. Jobbers are just that. Jobbers. They come as they please, assuming you'll hire them, and they leave as they please. And personally, I don't hold a thing against a jobber who leaves a trip early or comes on late. If any or all of my undersized crew is on though, I expect them to come ASAP.

Also, now that I'm thinking about it. I just put orders in on the new boat, so I'll probably cut my shares down to 4 as well. Oh, I'm hiring! Just throw me a tell and I'll take a look. I'm a little picky though, and won't simply hire anyone wanting to join a crew, as I've gone down that road already and people simply join for a bit and then leave when I refuse to promote them because they don't have the requirements.
[Sep 7, 2003 5:57:29 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    DeTheGreat    De+The+Great+1 [Link]  Go to top 
Morrigan

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Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory... Reply to this Post
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I think that "I'm saving for a new boat" is a terrible reason to short everyone else. As an officer of a small crew I've made enough to buy myself 2 boats this week off my cut alone. I see no reason for the captain to get a higher cut.
I also can't imagine how you need 30% for crew cut. I've always had plenty from a 10% crew cut for rum and cannon balls, with plenty left over.
Is that extra percentage just going into your pocket for the new boat?
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~Beryl
Captain of the Pernicious Plunderers
Queen of the Alliterative Aristocracy
Owner- Terran Wear, Gaea
[Sep 7, 2003 6:29:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Syzerian



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Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory... Reply to this Post
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heh just yesterday i was offered a permanent possition with a crew as a carper and i looked at the crew thingies and it was all twenty! then crew cut of 5% lol... i may be wrong but isnt all twenty the same as all 1.
i didnt take it tho :P i like my current crew and their always around when im around plus it isnt really about the money is it? its about having fun sailing and fighting other boats and plus ive got everything i want so im happy
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Angel of Thruth and Honor
~Syzerian Aralos~
[Sep 7, 2003 6:29:38 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Lizzie

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Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory... Reply to this Post
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Morrigan wrote: 
I think that "I'm saving for a new boat" is a terrible reason to short everyone else. As an officer of a small crew I've made enough to buy myself 2 boats this week off my cut alone. I see no reason for the captain to get a higher cut.
I also can't imagine how you need 30% for crew cut. I've always had plenty from a 10% crew cut for rum and cannon balls, with plenty left over.
Is that extra percentage just going into your pocket for the new boat?


Totally agree. I've made craploads as an officer. I could buy a war brig right now if I'd like. 15% crew cut is what we have, and its plenty, I regularly take quite a bit for myself outta the coffers. I wish I could make the crew cut less sometimes.

Incidentally, I wouldn't job for people giving me such a crap share as that guy. Quite frankly I doubt I'm worth as little 2/5ths of the captains effort. I know some jobbers are new, but not all are for sure.
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Ravine
Black Death, Midnight

[Sep 7, 2003 6:49:10 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
squig



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Re: a few thoughts on the subject... Reply to this Post
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DeTheGreat wrote: 
After having read this thread I'm sure I'll change my numbers a LITTLE bit, but here's mine, and I tend to have problems finding jobbers.


Jobber - 2 shares
Cabin Person - 2 shares
Pirate - 3 shares
Officer - 4 shares
Captain - 5 shares
Crew cut 30%

I did this for several reasons, not the least of which is that I"m saving up for a new boat. But also that promotion is based on two things, ability and length of service. Anyone who has sailed with me a while and has the requirements (posted in private on the crew page) will be promoted to pirate, or if there are positions open, officer immediately. So the pay scale gives motivation to do well (IMO.)


Personally I think the idea of motivating your crew to become officers with higher pay is a bad idea. Anyone who chooses to be an officer should do it because they truly want to see what it's like running a ship, not because they get a bigger cut of the loot. Plus, when you consider everything, an officer has more earning potential because they can always go out to sea, in part because they can just hire swabbies for a trade or pillage run. In that case suddenly their cut, whether it's 0.5 or TWENTY!, is 100% of profits, something no pirate, cabin person, or jobber can pull off.
[Sep 8, 2003 12:40:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
triskaideka



Joined: Jul 16, 2003
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Re: a few thoughts on the subject... Reply to this Post
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DeTheGreat wrote: 
 
Teamwork, aye -- and aren't your jobbers a part of your team too, even if only temporarily? ~triskaideka


NO. Jobbers are just that. Jobbers. They come as they please, assuming you'll hire them, and they leave as they please. And personally, I don't hold a thing against a jobber who leaves a trip early or comes on late. If any or all of my undersized crew is on though, I expect them to come ASAP.

I guess I have a different idea of the reasons for jobbing than some other folks posting in this thread.

Jobbers who work for me do the same puzzles as everyone else and get the same pay as everyone else. Or else they don't do the puzzles and then they don't get paid. Crew members take care of additional administrative tasks, sure, like finding targets and buying rum, but I don't really feel like I deserve higher pay for such simple work, and none of my crew have complained about their pay yet either. My crew is not currently pursuing shoppe or island ownership, so maybe I lack the perspective of a crew that is doing extra work or needs extra money for those goals (although I can't imagine I'd change our pay distribution even if we were trying to save up money).

A number of people who've posted here seem to assume that people take jobs because they're looking for a crew to join. Certainly that's a common and a good reason, but even when I didn't have a crew, it was never one of my reasons. I job, and hire jobbers, to make some money, get some experience, have some fun, meet new people, and so that I and others still have a game to play even when most of our crew members aren't around. If your shares don't take into account jobbers with my motivations -- that is, if they assume that all jobbers are willing to accept low pay because it's better than nothing -- then I think you're almost certain to miss out on some of the most experienced, most skilled, and most polite jobbers available.

That said, I've worked for a number of crews who had uneven pay distributions, but adjusted the booty division to pay everyone equally once we got into port. So I guess it's worth jobbing with anyone at least once, to find out what they're like.

If I weren't attached to my own crew, I'd probably try to join the Mad Mutineers. They pay everyone equally, most of their members are officers, and I've never failed to earn good money when I've jobbed for them. A crew that paid me less than my fellow members would not be sending me the message that it valued my contribution.
[Sep 8, 2003 1:57:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Malistryx



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Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory... Reply to this Post
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Our crew is one of the ones that pays cabin people less than jobbers. Why you ask? Well me first guess was Barnaby's been into the rum again... But The cabin people are almost always inexperienced and if they sail with us for the right reasons, then the money shouldn't matter to them. The 'Hounds tend to be about the whole comradery and fun aspect of the game, once a cabin person's proved they fit in with the crew they be promoted, they don't stay that way long.

So I think the reduced pay for cabin people is actually a good idea, sort of a testing phase for 'em.
[Sep 8, 2003 3:49:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hanns



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I'm at a loss. I set the shares back, BUT I left crew cut at 10%. Jobbers at two shares, cabin people and pirates at three, and above at four, seeing as those are extra trusted positions. The reason I'm at a loss, though, is if I should put Jobber shares at three with cabin people and pirates, but I sort of have a requirement using some sort of unoriginal point system (booched 0, poor 2, fine 4, good 6, excellent 8, incredible 10, score ten over three league points, etc) to join the crew as a full member. Though, the problem is that this can be a bit unfair for those who have a crew that they don't wish to leave while they job for my crew. Help, advice, please?

On a happier note, a lot of me crew members are enthusiastic about the crew and wear the same colors I do since I mentioned them in the private statement, har, <semi-cynicism>though probably because I put it along as a requirement along with a good amount of trust for officer</semi-cynicism>.

EDIT: I hate this school keyboard.
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-Spolto, some random guy of millions of people in the Midnight ocean.

-Ayrus, Senior Officer in the La Giustizia Implacabile.
[Sep 8, 2003 4:29:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
triskaideka



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Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory... Reply to this Post
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Malistryx wrote: 
So I think the reduced pay for cabin people is actually a good idea, sort of a testing phase for 'em.

Aye, I've seen a handful of crews doing that, and I think it's fair -- it says "we don't expect you to stay at this low rank for long, but we do expect you to demonstrate some level of commitment to being a member of the crew". Of course, I guess you should check to see that most members aren't cabin people before signing on with such a crew.

Haans wrote: 
The reason I'm at a loss, though, is if I should put Jobber shares at three with cabin people and pirates, but I sort of have a requirement using some sort of unoriginal point system (booched 0, poor 2, fine 4, good 6, excellent 8, incredible 10, score ten over three league points, etc) to join the crew as a full member. Though, the problem is that this can be a bit unfair for those who have a crew that they don't wish to leave while they job for my crew. Help, advice, please?

I don't understand what the conflict is here. What's the relationship between your pay and the point system for accepting new members? Do you use the point system to adjust the pay as well? If there's no relationship, what's the obstacle to setting shares however you want?

Or do you think people will be less likely to join your crew if they realize they can get the same pay by jobbing? I wouldn't worry about that -- the real incentive to join a crew right now is being able to do the navigation and sea battle puzzles.


It's worth noting that a crew's shares may not be the only reason they have trouble finding jobbers right now. On a busy night you might see between 15 - 20 crews hiring in either archipelago. Sometimes there are just more jobs than jobbers. There are methods other than adjusting pay to lure jobbers to your crew. A coherent and level-headed public statement is a plus. So is a good reputation, which you can gain from a good battle record, word of mouth from satisfied previous jobbers, and high-quality forum posts. As I said in a previous post, I've more than once taken a job at a low rate of pay because I had other indications that the experience would still be lucrative for me.
[Sep 8, 2003 5:01:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hanns



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Thanks, I feel quite a bit better, now. I've often had a good amount of luck pillaging, and able to give jobbers around 600, that's three to six times what I normally get jobbing for most crews (and when I had crew cut backwards :P)

I learned everything I know of the game from the many fine pirates in the Yellow Jackets, if it weren't for them, I'd feel so very unworthy and probably wouldn't have started my own crew with another character. (I didn't want to leave them), ha har!

And, yes, the point system is unrelated to shares being altered a bit.

Crew statement has been re-written a number of times, and I do my best to make it as readable and correctly spelled as possible. Though, I think one downside is that it's fairly long-winded with rules, eheh.
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-Spolto, some random guy of millions of people in the Midnight ocean.

-Ayrus, Senior Officer in the La Giustizia Implacabile.
[Sep 8, 2003 5:26:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Cahrin

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Re: Shortage of Jobbers? A theory... Reply to this Post
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Crew Cut is designed to cover rum and cannon balls (or so is my understanding), and any extra is kept by the ship owner, to both pay back the ship or save for future rum / cannon ball costs, as well as for their efforts for running the pillage. Beyond that, everyone does about equal work, EXCEPT the officers who target (at least one officer..). Does this not mean that jobbers should get paid equal to everyone else? Everyone does equal work, therefore everyone should get paid equally.

On another note, my favorite share cut:

Jobber: 5
Cabin Person: 5
Pirate: 5
Officer: 4
Senior Officer: 4
Captain: .5
Crew Cut: 20%
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-Cahrin
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sundance

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Not all jobbers are created equal. Just as the jobber should look at the crew info before accepting a job, the crew should look at the jobber's info before offering a job. I don't expect to be treated like a talentless lackey, because I'm not one. People who say they get jobbers who don't follow orders, etc, probably shouldn't /job everyone who applies. Or if they do, as was said before, set expectations and stick to them.

Respect jobbers who show themselves worthy of it and they'll come back, they'll tell others about your crew. And correct the ones who don't behave appropriately; no one likes working with people who aren't working as a team -- and this includes other jobbers.
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Penndalla

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Our current setup be:

Jobber: 3
Cabin Person: 4
Pirate: 4
Officer: 5
Senior Officer: 5
Captain: 1/2
Crew Cut: 12%
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Pennsuedo

My art: http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/Pennsuedo/?start=all
[Sep 9, 2003 12:04:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/Pennsuedo/?start=all [Link]  Go to top 
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