• Play
  • About
  • News
  • Forums
  • Yppedia
  • Help
Welcome Guest   | Login
  Index  | Recent Threads  | Register  | Search  | Help  | RSS feeds  | View Unanswered Threads  
  Search  


Quick Go »
Thread Status: Normal
Total posts in this thread: 15
[Add To My Favorites] [Watch this Thread] [Post new Thread]
Author
Previous Thread This topic has been viewed 977 times and has 14 replies Next Thread
muffy



Joined: Mar 3, 2003
Posts: 2020
Status: Offline

PvP, camping, and trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Gelled from a few other ideas.

How about making resources analagous to maps?

There are a set of basic necessity resources: Iron, Wood, Stone, Hemp, and Sugar Cane. These are produced by markets on various islands, generally at least two per archipelago. They may also be available by foraging on islands without markets. Traders can make a reasonable living bringing these from remote markets to markets or shoppekeepers on colonized islands.

All other resources are available only through Sea Battle. Brigand ships are as they are now - ye often get something, every once in a while it's something really cool (including BLOOD!). However, in PvP battles, the winner ALWAYS gets a "spawn" of some non-basic resource (dye herb or mineral); what resource this is varies from battle to battle, but it should always be a resource that is currently useful (not, say the ubiquitous Old Man's Beard).

Now, ye might say, this makes the game uninteresting, and possibly unprofitable for traders. Therefore, two modifications are needed.

First, make the probability of particular resources higher on particular routes (similar to markets now). For example, the probability of a Thorianite spawn is normally 1/100, but if ye're on a route to Cleopatra's Pearls, it's 1/20. Weld could spawn much more often near Guava, etc.

Second, markets on all colonized islands will buy and resell all resources (subject to capacity limits), at reasonable prices/profits, based on prices at uncolonized markets and the distance travelled. So, for example, if ye can buy Sugar Cane at Winter Solstice for 5 per unit, and ye have to travel four "easy: leagues to Alpha to deliver it, so the Alpha market will always buy it at 7. Iron at Byrne is 8 and ye have to travel four "hard" leagues to deliver it, so the Alpha market buys it at 12 (Edit: regardless of what prices shoppes may be paying). Thus, traders should always be able to make a basic profit. In addition, the markets are buying the dye herbs, minerals, etc. that are pillaged, also at reasonable prices. So, a pillaging crew can just sail over to the nearest market and unload, rather than risking the goods for long trips at sea, and having to figure out where the best prices are. That market will then resell the combined results of many pillages to anyone who chooses to trade (or, of course, to local shoppes if there is demand), allowing traders to ship goods to distant shoppes where prices are higher.

The result of this would ideally be as follows:

Let's say that Weld is very likely to spawn in PvP near Guava, and fairly unlikely elsewhere. Pillagers near Guava run back home to do their booty split and sell it at Guava market, rather than interrupting their pillage to take half an hour to run it up to Alpha, losing out on pillage time and making only a moderate amount more in profit. The Guava apothecary therefore has plenty of Weld and makes relatively cheap yellow dye. The weavery has cheap and easy access to the dye, so yellow cloth is common and cheap at Guava. The further from Guava ye get, the more expensive Weld, yellow dye, and yellow cloth get. So a smart trader collects the available Weld, yellow dye, yellow cloth, etc. from Guava (where there is a glut, so all the shoppes there are selling it for reasonable prices/profits) and runs it to Alpha, which has almost none and will pay out a 30% profit for any of these goods or resources.

Note that of course these resources could also arrive at Alpha via a chain of pillages from Guava to Alpha, but the greatly increased risk of such a voyage should discourage all but the most able crews from making the longer run for only a moderate profit, vs. selling, banking, and going back out for more pillage and the chance of pillagin' something more rare and lucrative (such as Kraken's Blood or Thorianite).
----------------------------------------
Avatar by Rubby
[Sep 4, 2003 4:33:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

Member's Avatar


Joined: Dec 10, 2002
Posts: 8824
Status: Offline
Re: PvP, camping, and trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I love the idea, and puts lots of emphasis on PvP.

My big worry is trading crews become ones who simply attack each other over and over for resources . . . camping themselves, in essence. That's almost funny enough by itself to do it . . .
[Sep 4, 2003 5:50:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Squidbeard

Member's Avatar


Joined: Jul 2, 2003
Posts: 1107
Status: Offline
First thoughts Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Your idea about having extra commodities spawned out of sea battles would certainly encourage more PvP fighting; you're essentially making every ship a better target. I imagine this would make it nigh-impossible to get a ship to the first waypoint without being engaged!

On the economic side, you're just adding a step to the front end of the supply chain: goods are spawned near an island, instead of on an island. Thus, campers are split between those who pillage the goods and duck into the Market to unload them, and those who sit in port waiting for the pillagers to come in and sell. No earthshaking economic ramifications there, apart from the PvP encouragement. Though I'd hate to be that poor little elderberry, spawned out of a sloop battle, sold to the Market, bought by a Merchant, pillaged by a camper, returned to the Market, bought by a Merchant, pillaged by a camper, returned to the Market...

I know that you only lose 10% in a loss, but you just know there's going to be that one poor little weed or rock who never gets more than a league from the sea battle where it was spawned.

Of course, one still has the problem of crews taking commodities back to their shoppes at a loss or at cost, regardless of what a neutral Market may be offering.

--Sq
----------------------------------------
Squid
High Priest, Cult of the Red Mantis
[Sep 4, 2003 6:11:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://looterati.goldfish.org [Link]  Go to top 
muffy



Joined: Mar 3, 2003
Posts: 2020
Status: Offline

Re: PvP, camping, and trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

homullus wrote: 
I love the idea, and puts lots of emphasis on PvP.

My big worry is trading crews become ones who simply attack each other over and over for resources . . . camping themselves, in essence. That's almost funny enough by itself to do it . . .


Aye, this makes it really really funny, which I like. And honestly, it would be a LOT of fun. I can totally see two ships of ARR constantly attackin' each other - it'd be better than skelly fights! Yer crew's problem with doin' this, of course, is that then other ships will be hoverin' near the fight, waitin' to attack the winner. Could become a huge circular fight. It'd be great!
----------------------------------------
Avatar by Rubby
[Sep 4, 2003 6:13:41 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

Member's Avatar


Joined: Dec 10, 2002
Posts: 8824
Status: Offline
Re: PvP, camping, and trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Also, as long as the ability to dump commodities, the ability to HIDE some elderberries in a ship full of old man's beard would be welcome . . . the more "extra" stuff, the greater the chance that 10% has your berries . . . so I'd disagree with only making useful items spawn.
[Sep 4, 2003 6:15:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
muffy



Joined: Mar 3, 2003
Posts: 2020
Status: Offline

Re: First thoughts Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Squidbeard wrote: 
Of course, one still has the problem of crews taking commodities back to their shoppes at a loss or at cost, regardless of what a neutral Market may be offering.


Aye, sure, but since the commodities would be spread out among many crews by crew action (battle) rather than market camping, this would not have the "hoarding" effect that's bothering people right now. Sure, I could choose to sell all the elderberries I win near Oyster to Apparel Barrel, to support me crew, but meanwhile fifty other crews are out there PvPing and they are sellin' the elderberries they win to the ironmonger, the apothecary, the weaver, etc.

In addition, it means that "camping" involves lots of action rather than lots of inaction. To camp anything, ye have to get out and battle, battle, battle, not sit in the docks with yer finger poised on the mouse as the seconds tick by to spawn time.

My best time in the game so far was the defense of Cleaver's treasure ship. As we won 14 PvP battles over the five hours or so of the trip, if the "spawns" of resources were of reasonable size (indeed, perhaps the size of these spawns should be related to the sizes of crews battling, as brigand payouts are), he could have paid us quite a bit just out of the sale of these winnings, without dippin' into his gold.
----------------------------------------
Avatar by Rubby
[Sep 4, 2003 6:19:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
muffy



Joined: Mar 3, 2003
Posts: 2020
Status: Offline

grace period Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Oh, and the grace period after losses will help traders, too - say I'm a trader and I get pillaged just as I set out from an island. Sure, I lose 10%, but then I have 15 minutes to get to me tradin' destination before I can be attacked again.

Most voyages can be accomplished (with no interference) in 1 minute per league, so it's easy enough to compute that I'd need something over a 10% profit for any voyage of 10 leagues or so (countin' time to get up to speed and leavin' a bit of leeway besides), something over a 20% profit for voyages of 11 - 20 leagues, etc.
----------------------------------------
Avatar by Rubby
[Sep 4, 2003 6:31:30 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gotagota

Member's Avatar


Joined: May 1, 2003
Posts: 5791
Status: Offline
Are my glasses too rosy? Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I like this. Traders would become middlemen, as they should be. Also it will make some of my plans a bit more attractive to them.

Which is to say, Pillagers will get raw materials (except basics) for production and Traders will move manufactured goods to far-flung islands for sale. Turning the economy into one of distribution rather than production. This is also riskier and more action-oriented.

Running a shop or mini-economy (of an island) will require concentrated effort and cooperation. As it should be.

So, after careful deliberation and much thought, this one gets a thumbs-up from Gota.

This gives me an interesting idea. If only I could get a stockpile of wood together...
----------------------------------------
Fronsac, human.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
.
-Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

[Sep 4, 2003 6:35:07 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Cleaver
Captain
Member's Avatar


Joined: May 7, 2002
Posts: 3124
Status: Offline
Back and forth fighting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I suppose that given that it takes a while to resolve a battle even if both sides want to get it over with quickly, the exploit (repeated battling) is not so bad. Although I think that many a crew would just put out a small sloop with one on, who would then attack the manned ship, lose, repeat. There'd have to be checks and balances.

Rather than replace the existing production I would see this as an additional bonus. It's an idea.
[Sep 4, 2003 6:36:01 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
muffy



Joined: Mar 3, 2003
Posts: 2020
Status: Offline

Re: Back and forth fighting Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Cleaver wrote: 
Although I think that many a crew would just put out a small sloop with one on, who would then attack the manned ship, lose, repeat. There'd have to be checks and balances.


Aye, but other ships would soon be hoverin' around the battle zone, preparin' to engage the winner. Ye might even introduce an option for this that allows a ship to drift near the battle zone and engage the winner as soon as the battle is over. First come, first served, of course...*smile*.
----------------------------------------
Avatar by Rubby
[Sep 4, 2003 6:44:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
muffy



Joined: Mar 3, 2003
Posts: 2020
Status: Offline

Re: First thoughts Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Squidbeard wrote: 
On the economic side, you're just adding a step to the front end of the supply chain: goods are spawned near an island, instead of on an island. Thus, campers are split between those who pillage the goods and duck into the Market to unload them, and those who sit in port waiting for the pillagers to come in and sell.


The variation here which changes it from camping as it is now is that the goods don't show up every 5 minutes, they show up upon sale, which happens at completely random times. I don't know about astonishingly dedicated campers, but I'm pretty sure the more casual campers (such as myself) would not want to sit transfixed by the trade interface every second waiting for that small sale to the market (which might not come for hours or days, if there is enough demand at the local shoppes!) Still, if that's what someone enjoys, they can do it. Meanwhile, all the rest of us are out battlin' for our spawns, and we'll probably get more (unless we're lousy fighters) than the campers.

And, as someone else points out, most likely what will be shipped is the finished goods rather than the raw materials (except in the case of basic resources).
----------------------------------------
Avatar by Rubby
[Sep 4, 2003 8:48:45 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
muffy



Joined: Mar 3, 2003
Posts: 2020
Status: Offline

scaling of production Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

Another bonus with this idea is that production of herbs and minerals is, to a great degree, scaled to the number of players; with more players, there is more PvP and therefore more resource production.
----------------------------------------
Avatar by Rubby
[Sep 4, 2003 9:36:57 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
burrito



Joined: Aug 18, 2003
Posts: 288
Status: Offline

Re: PvP, camping, and trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I had proposed before that all the necessities (wood, iron, stone, hemp, and sugarcane) could be farmed/mined on the islands by players (i didn't propose farming, i just proposed that the essential 5 be farmed). I like your idea as well, except for one thing:

the whole marketplace having a regulated buy price.

That's really going to add too much regulation to the economy and I'm totally not for it. It should be up to the players (for the most part) to fix the economic problems that are currently taking place.

I also think that the extreme increase in PvP attacks at sea would make it increasingly hard for newcomers. I wouldn't want a newcomer on my ship if I knew that we'd get constantly jumped at sea.

It does sound like a good idea, though, just needs to be fine tuned in my opinion.
----------------------------------------
-Peppy, Senior Officer of the Salty Mouthfuls
"Yarr, thar be stairs here."

1st Place, First Drinking Contest, Gaea 24 Hour Bash
2nd Place, Cayte's Sword Tournament, 9/29
[Sep 4, 2003 1:00:32 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    burrito+OMG [Link]  Go to top 
muffy



Joined: Mar 3, 2003
Posts: 2020
Status: Offline

Re: PvP, camping, and trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

burrito wrote: 

the whole marketplace having a regulated buy price.

That's really going to add too much regulation to the economy and I'm totally not for it.


That's not really what I'm suggesting - I'm suggesting that all markets have a MINIMUM price for everything. Shoppes can obviously pay more than that for anything they particularly want. I just want there to always be a "local" market (up to buy limits, of course) for pillaged goods, so that ye don't have to travel many leagues with yer winnings - leave that to the traders.
----------------------------------------
Avatar by Rubby
[Sep 4, 2003 1:09:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
burrito



Joined: Aug 18, 2003
Posts: 288
Status: Offline

Re: PvP, camping, and trading Reply to this Post
Reply with Quote

I would only agree to that if the buy price at the market is automatically lower than the buy price being offered from the individual shoppes.
----------------------------------------
-Peppy, Senior Officer of the Salty Mouthfuls
"Yarr, thar be stairs here."

1st Place, First Drinking Contest, Gaea 24 Hour Bash
2nd Place, Cayte's Sword Tournament, 9/29
[Sep 4, 2003 1:18:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    burrito+OMG [Link]  Go to top 
[Show Printable Version of Thread] [Post new Thread]

Puzzle Pirates™ © 2001-2016 Grey Havens, LLC All Rights Reserved.   Terms · Privacy · Affiliates