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sbhansf



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Recycling of used articles. Reply to this Post
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There should be a way to recycle your unused articles, such as the sword you start with and the clothes you start with. There really doesn't seem to be much demand for these kind of things and perhaps you could recycle some of the commodities back into the economy.
[Aug 13, 2003 4:02:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Turk



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Re: Recycling of used articles. Reply to this Post
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I think it'd make a bit of sense if the Iron Monger could melt down swords, but it probably shouldn't be a perfect process- a foil would only create about 75% of the materials normally needed to make one due to wear and tear on it and such.
[Aug 13, 2003 5:06:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Cleaver
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Wear and tear Reply to this Post
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We are going to start wearing down items you carry around soon, so this will take care of itself. We actually don't want a recycling economy; we want to draw value out of the economy to help balance the massive influx of gold from the Brigands etc.
[Aug 13, 2003 6:49:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
Dylan

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Cleaver wrote: 
We are going to start wearing down items you carry around soon, so this will take care of itself. We actually don't want a recycling economy; we want to draw value out of the economy to help balance the massive influx of gold from the Brigands etc.


Tax and doing chores doesn't sound fun and piratey. Winning gold from brigands is easy, but they rarely get much if we lose - the pieces of eight are in the bank. Perhaps making it necessary to 'speculate to accumulate' would be a better option? The ship cannot attack (or be attacked, perhaps) unless it is carrying enough booty. The amount could depend on the same rating as is used to assign colours to the ships.

This might also make Player vs Player battles more likely. I accidentally got myself involved in one 5 v 7, and although we narrowly lost, it was the most enjoyable battle I've had. We only lost about 23 Iris Root, however. If you do do this, I would suggest that crew sizes be within 10% not to be blue - 10 vs 11 is probably not an issue, but 5 vs 7 is hard.

Dylan
[Aug 13, 2003 7:53:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Soma



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on wear and tear.. Reply to this Post
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I understand why this will be factored in, I however totally disregard it as adding any fun whatsoever. Something needs to be done to lessen the pain a bit, most of us aren't here to play sim-rot.

Ouch. Okay, so here's my suggestion. Over the course of degradation, items CAN be repaired/restored to their former glory, for a cut of the original materials needed. If item decay is to work in stages, the numbers of this or that needed would increase stage to stage, with the final point being more or less the point of no return. Thus: you have your money vacuum, people DON'T get angry, economy is still stimulated, list goes on and on.



And now for an even simpler idea, luxury taxes? If the sole focus of this is to make some of our hardearned poe float away to the debths of the ocean, simply tax us at a steady rate (ie, once a week, once biweekly..) for the current average market value of those luxury items we possess.
----------------------------------------
Soma
Castaway of Alpha
Survivor of Old Spice & Nyx's Scions
Officer of Black Death
[Aug 13, 2003 9:10:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Jota



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Re: on wear and tear.. Reply to this Post
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Soma wrote: 
If the sole focus of this is to make some of our hardearned poe float away to the debths of the ocean,


So is that where the brigands have been getting it from?
[Aug 13, 2003 10:11:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.livejournal.com/users/grunk/2002/04/24/ [Link]  Go to top 
Soma



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aye, Nemo has a gigantic crazy operation going on beneath public notice. Where do you think the money comes from for all the rum and shot they're so happy to provide? *grins*
----------------------------------------
Soma
Castaway of Alpha
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Officer of Black Death
[Aug 13, 2003 1:46:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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Re: Recycling of used articles. Reply to this Post
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I have to strongly disagree with the "rot" concept for the reason that it just isn't a fun game mechanic, and a quick solution to the problem of the fact that there isn't a whole lot to spend PoE on at a certain point.

It's hard to explain why it isn't a fun mechanic, because I can't quite put my finger on it, but the issue is that having to maintain your items, assuming having them in pristine condition matters, adds a task which is mundane (gathering resources, or what have you) such that you can maintain what you own. That just isn't fun whatsoever in my mind.
[Aug 13, 2003 2:51:39 PM] Show Printable Version of Post   [Link]  Go to top 
Dylan

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Re: Recycling of used articles. Reply to this Post
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Vang wrote: 
It's hard to explain why it isn't a fun mechanic


I'll explain why. I played for a long time in a pay per hour (gasp) online text MUD. It was very complex and there were a large number of items you needed - clothes, weapons, tools, containers, etc. Unfortunately, these items would rot. They did this for two reasons - to drive the economy (new commodities would have to be bought/harvested) and also because each item had a number. So my long sword might be longsword3771. Unfortunately, this will still in the days of 16-bits (I believe the original implementation was late 80s as a dial-up game). Now believe you me, there is nothing worse than logging in after a month or two of inactivity to find yourself naked and weaponless.

I think since Puzzle Pirates is intended to be FUN, there will be many people who would like to wear a nice outfit, but not to have to buy it again every month. Once again, please find a better mechanic, or simply put the tax burden on the shops.

Can you say protection money?

Dylan
[Aug 13, 2003 6:30:33 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Redhand



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Re: Recycling of used articles. Reply to this Post
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It's an attitude thing.

You either look at it as "I earned my money, I bought this stuff, now they are taking it away."

Or you look at it as "Har! My sword be looking a bit long in the tooth, I think it be time to swing by a friend o' mine what owes me a favor and swagger a new one out o' his hide, yarrrr."


No one likes having stuff they earned taken away from them, and the only way items like this settle in game (no matter how critical they might be to the games concept) is if they are there from the beginning. That way players accept it as part of the game, not an unwelcome change.


Maybe a way to alleviate the pain of this is to allow one item of each catagory in your inventory to be exempt from rot, at the cost of a small daily maintenance fee. That way you never have to worry about losing your favorite sword or shirt that you may have emotional attachment too as long as you have poe in the bank.
----------------------------------------
Redhand "Sonar" Ward
Me father was a pirate, me mum was a bat, and don't get me started on all that...

WWIIOnline (Windhund) <-> Puzzle Pirates (ARR!)
[Aug 13, 2003 7:48:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.windhund.org [Link]  Go to top 
Soma



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Re: Recycling of used articles. Reply to this Post
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...


Let me start by saying that no one in their right mind could possibly look at it as an exciting or fun feature. So you have some favors to call in and some money in the bank, why not use them to help outfit your crew or get some new ships running or ANYTHING. What this does is take money out of prospective community use, as I see it. Have a lot of officers with a penchant for black? Better get used to railing on them for not affording rum or shot or contributing to the improvement of your island.

As for it's intrinsic value to the game design, if it's seriously an important issue, I think some values need to be looked at. Yes the economy needs to work, yes it's important to have some sort of money sink (rum and shot, anyone?).. but do those things have to be taken out of the fun we can have? The more you gum a game up with chores, the less attractive it becomes to play. Am I right in assuming that this is still a game?

So why am I so vehement anyways? It's simple. I think part of our duty as 'good' testers is not only to have our way with the game mechanics until we break them, but to insure that the end product is something that will be profitable to the developers. This definatley includes beating down 'features' that are detested by the general populace. Personally; if the game were to meet half of my expectations, I would be more than willing to pay my bit of the ringer's payroll. I don't expect a walk in the park, nor do I wish for one. I do expect fun to be had within and against a player community. I do not expect the game itself to work against my (and others) ability to have a good time.

As for the there from the start angle, how many games have we (speaking to the community) played that were alright for a few weeks, and nothing more? How many games have I personally tried out and then given up on dissatisfied, because I knew it could've been so much better (often, easily so)? I can't count them using fingers AND toes, I'll say that much. I'm not being merely reactive, I'm being proactive; I suggest what good ideas I have, and hope that they at least help lead to a more satisfying result.

This topic was raised far in the past, and (luckily) semi-forgotten. Unfortunatley, it's back, and I'm more than willing to argue my part of the point. There are other (more forgiving?) ways for us to part with our poe. Some of them require larger additions than others, some will offer more rewards than others. As it stands, I can totally agree with repairable wear, property taxes or probably anything but what the current scenario seems to entail.
----------------------------------------
Soma
Castaway of Alpha
Survivor of Old Spice & Nyx's Scions
Officer of Black Death
[Aug 13, 2003 9:06:07 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Vitenka



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Some sort of sink is required Reply to this Post
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Without some form of money sink, inflation is inevitable. Once inflation gets too bad, new players will have little hop of enjoying the game.

The money comes into the economy via creation of resources on islands and generation of poe on the navy and brigands.

Currently the only money sinks I can see are:
* Players leaving and not redistributing their money and items first. (Significant drain, but rare)
* Cannon balls and rum. (Small continuing drain)
* The skeletons may also suck a few old items away.

And there lies the obvious suggestion. Have our money taken away by games and by brigands and such. Have them pay their taxes, and leave us pirates alone.

(Exception - some really rare items could decay - a 'five use sword' might be valuable and interesting. But in general, I think that item decay would be at best boring and at worst aggravating.

At the very least, give us a game of skill to repair our items. If we be doing well at the game, we don't have to pay much - if we be doing badly, then we pay for repair.
That way, if the game be fun, we at least get to have fun with the taxes. You could have archipeligo wide "Tax day" celebrations.

... or ye could just raise the price of rum again. But the players want to play for fun, not for a realistic economy.
[Aug 13, 2003 10:08:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Re: Recycling of used articles. Reply to this Post
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I'm the sort of person who picks one outfit and sticks with it. The thought of having to re-buy that oufit all the time is upsetting.

All you anti-rot folks: a month is actually a long time in the game right now . . . what if you had to replace things every other month, or every third?

I seem to recall also that usage was floated out as a dynamic: if you don't wear your finest all the time, it won't decay as fast. Ditto swords.

I'll also say that if you can't make a few thousand PoE every couple months, you really don't deserve to be walking around dressed as finely as the people who CAN.
[Aug 14, 2003 12:15:10 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Vitenka



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Yarr. You be burning the people who can only play for a few days a month, or only a few minuutes a night. Doing it by usage would have the oposite effect - harming those long term supporters who really like the game.

I think it's just a generally bad idea. Unless, somehow, you can make it as fun as dungeon keepers "It is pay day" feature.
[Aug 14, 2003 12:20:11 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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I didn't say there was no decay when things weren't used, I said it wasn't as fast. The players who are on all the time can afford to buy a new outfit every couple months (months, folks!), paying to be seen in finery, while the casual players can not show up naked in their bi-monthly appearances. I don't see a problem.

Players also have the option of not dressing in the most expensive clothing available at all times, having work clothes and tournament finery.
[Aug 14, 2003 12:36:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Matthias

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Re: Recycling of used articles. Reply to this Post
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Personally, I don't see why decay should be tied to time in the real world. why can't it be tied to how much time you've played for?

If you don't play for a month, it should be assumed that nothing will happen to the pirate for a month. It's a reasonable assumption. Although the fact that money's there for the taking, decay is not the answer.

Honestly, how many clothes have you seen that become unwearable after a month, or three? It takes years for clothes to decay to a point where they can't really be worn outside.

I do however think that swords should decay, but only a little bit. After too many fights (and I do mean too many) the sword drops should be 'taxed', and the only way to get it fixed is to leave your sword to be repaired at the blacksmith's.

As for balance in general, I still think might is not the only thing that should be taken into consideration. Either change the coloured circles to reflect the risk/reward ratio, or add a new scale (colour of the sails, maybe) to show how rich the ship is. Brigands take this into account when they choose ships to attack.

Perhaps an island could 'tax' its citizens to continue to call that island home or own land (based on play-time and wealth), with tax rates to be determined by the governor. The treasury could be used to clear land to be alotted to those who want to build (or just funnelled into the Flag), and brigands (or other Flags) would occasionally storm the palace and attempt to take the Treasury. Players (Flag members mainly, and anyone who wanted a 'reward') could defend the treasury from the raiding party. This would reduce the risk to players (who would understandably become bitter at losing their stuff), allow brigands (who would be a great deal tougher when trying to storm the Treasury) to get some of their money back, and would provide an incentive to cross big flags.

The only major weakness is that it could be easily exploited, but this would be much the same as an overly expensive shop - you'd have to vote with your feet, and shop owners would have to be careful to make sure they found an island with low tax. Of course, if you didn't like it, I suppose you could always storm the Treasury.

Matt
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[Aug 14, 2003 1:35:16 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
triskaideka



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Re: Recycling of used articles. Reply to this Post
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I am also less than thrilled by the idea of my items degrading over time. I think it would make me feel a lot like Sisyphus. It would also make me a lot less likely to bother with buying nicer items at all.

I am not averse to the idea of my swords or clothing getting damaged during particularly heated sea battles, in the same way as I assume people will eventually lose eyes or limbs. (Devising an algorithm to determine whether a battle was "heated" is left as an exercise for the reader.) Damage to clothing could be represented by turning it to rags. Damage to a sword could be represented by replacing all the blocks of a given color in its pattern with another color. (So, for example, instead of being red, yellow, green across the bottom, my damaged foil might be yellow, yellow, green.)

In either case I think it should be possible to take the item back to the appropriate type of shoppe and have it repaired for a certain (hopefully small) percentage of its purchase cost.

(Edited to fix a typo.)
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by triskaideka at Aug 14, 2003 5:30:02 AM]
[Aug 14, 2003 5:30:02 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Swords can't degrade well without making them actually SHARPER, rather than duller. Modifying the carefully-constructed patterns will mess them up.
[Aug 14, 2003 5:36:39 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
triskaideka



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I think that eliminating any one color from a sword's pattern and replacing it with another would be a pretty universally effective way of reducing that sword's usefulness, thereby encouraging pirates to spend their hard-earned currency to repair it, which I assume is the point. The only variance is that this change would be worse for some swords than for others.

That said, I don't think it's a particularly brilliant idea, and I don't actually expect to see it happen. I'm just trying to suggest an alternative to having items gradually decay into unusability, since it sounds like I'm not the only one who has a low opinion of that idea.
[Aug 14, 2003 6:09:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Squidbeard

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Wear and tear (Terran Wear?) Reply to this Post
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Soma wrote: 
...Let me start by saying that no one in their right mind could possibly look at it as an exciting or fun feature.

This would not be the first time I've been accused of insanity; nor, I suspect, will it be the last. You see, I don't have a problem with item rot. Not exciting? Huh. I'll bet that seeing your sword go dull after a fight six leagues from port would get your blood pressure up.

Soma wrote: 
...I think part of our duty as 'good' testers...definatley includes beating down 'features' that are detested by the general populace.

I would posit that we should actually test the features before we beat them down.

There have been a number of 'money sink' ideas floating around. All of them involve, basically, throwing your money away, so it's hard to imagine any of them being popular. It's a matter of balancing the unpopular against the necessary. Rum and shot we already have, and they seem to be things we can live with. Ship maintenance is another idea that seems to have real merit: it takes a LOT of maintenance to keep a ship afloat. It would make Carpentry an even more valuable skill, especially if a good carpenter meant you went through less wood, iron(nails), and sailcloth (though that would be sewing; see below).

Making swords that wear out seems defensible, too. Putting a "DULL" modifier on your sword that gives it a really lame pattern (say, a quilt of 3x2 blocks) would definitely encourage a quick visit to the smithy. I'd even go so far as to defend clothing that wears out:
Matthias wrote: 
Honestly, how many clothes have you seen that become unwearable after a month, or three? It takes years for clothes to decay to a point where they can't really be worn outside.

You're talking about modern clothing, in tightly-knit, modern fabrics, being worn maybe once a week to an office. Try wearing a crudely-knit outfit, doing hard work, on a ship, in the weather, day in and day out, washed by hand (if at all) in salt water with harsh soap (if at all) against a rock or the deck. We didn't yet have denim in these days, you must remember. Lemur (me lovely bride) has patterns to make a Sailor's Needlecase -- sewing was tremendously important for sail, rope, and clothing maintenance, and any swabbie worth his rum needed to have that skill.

Sorry for the long arguments; slow work day for me (oh, if only I could get the boss hooked on Y!PP...). I guess I'm just trying to say that we can and should give these a try. If they're really horrible for the player experience, then we'll say so (loud and long, I imagine). Hopefully, we'll have something more constructive to offer than a simple "Not This".

--Sq
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Squid
High Priest, Cult of the Red Mantis
[Aug 14, 2003 6:32:02 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://looterati.goldfish.org [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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Aye . . . it was actually suggested before by Silverbeard -- so you're in good company -- but experimentation with actual sword patterns showed it would do more harm than good. I don't mean to imply you should have searched fir it, either . . . might have been on the MM forum, I forget.
[Aug 14, 2003 6:33:46 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
triskaideka



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Re: Wear and tear (Terran Wear?) Reply to this Post
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Squidbeard wrote: 
There have been a number of 'money sink' ideas floating around. All of them involve, basically, throwing your money away, so it's hard to imagine any of them being popular. It's a matter of balancing the unpopular against the necessary. Rum and shot we already have, and they seem to be things we can live with. Ship maintenance is another idea that seems to have real merit: it takes a LOT of maintenance to keep a ship afloat. It would make Carpentry an even more valuable skill, especially if a good carpenter meant you went through less wood, iron(nails), and sailcloth (though that would be sewing; see below).


I understand the need for a money sink of some sort. More one-use, consumable goods like rum or cannonballs are a good idea (especially like cannonballs, since they're optional). Charging rent for luxuries (e.g. houses) is a viable idea, and has the added benefit of taxing the rich while not hurting new or casual players. Added costs for maintaining ships... well, that might be okay, but I'm slightly less enthusiastic about the idea of officers and captains paying even more money out of their own pockets to maintain their crews.

But please don't "tax" the essentials. If I want a break from "keeping up with the Blackbeards", I want to be able to play no-ante drinking games in the inn or chase Sheepish Ryan around without worrying that my clothes and sword are disintegrating with each passing second and I'm not out earning the money to buy new ones. The harder you make me work to maintain the status quo, the less likely I am to find this game fun. Advancement should be hard; staying where you are shouldn't be.

As a side note, the other night my crew had an absolutely miserable experience when we hired a jobber who (among his other faults) felt strongly that "time is money" and didn't hesitate to make public his contempt when we made the least bit of idle chit-chat or delayed our departure from port for any reason. I would sure hate to see any costs added to the game that aggravated that type of attitude.

That said... I suppose it's true that we're beta testers and we ought to get all the potentially bad ideas tested now rather than later. But I wanted to voice this objection because I feel pretty strongly about it. I already have a game where I work just to stay where I am; I call it "real life".
[Aug 14, 2003 8:28:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Gotagota

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Re: Recycling of used articles. Reply to this Post
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As long as rags and stripey knickers don't degrade, then only luxuries will be taxed.

Might even make you think twice about buying that black/black captain's jacket, knowing there are some maintenance costs associated with it. And I am in favor of making stylish clothing rarer. If only to make Fronsac look better <Grin>
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Fronsac, human.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to
add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
.
-Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

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mlk



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I quite like the idea of degrading items, either by wear and tear, and/or by battle scars.
But the repear should be cheap, and free for low end goods.


Also more disposables would be good (food & Rum at the pub, room and board (start sleeping in the doorways(free), to share accomendation(super cheap) up to owning a house on your home island (expenive one off, plus "taxes") ?).

All of the disposable should give something back thou.

Living on the streets would degrade your fine captins jacket pritty quick, but shared accomedation would kept it fine for longer.
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Quartermaster Bates of Mog's Marauders
♪♫♪♫
[Aug 14, 2003 9:51:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://pp.wetnet.tk    somegithasallmynormalusernames [Link]  Go to top 
Soma



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testing.. Reply to this Post
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is not only a manual problem, you can 'test' things in advance (if fleshed out decently) to go ahead and launch a judgement on this or that. Like icecream but hate coffee? You're not bound to test the vanilla-java chip just because you haven't seen this variety of something you already dislike. I think the main reality of the issues is the struggle between players who would rather partake in a monotonous lot of micromanagement on a personal level rather than a fun game for all. Sure, I like to look good and have a blade I trust, however if rot was at the extreme, I'd just make do with my rags and bare feet in no time. The more things we have to maintain (ie, maintenance?) the more a game becomes work. I'm pretty sure work is one of the reasons people even feel inclined to game.
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Soma
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Officer of Black Death
[Aug 14, 2003 10:12:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Hellboy



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decay isn't necessary Reply to this Post
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You know, quite a few pirates just use their excess items to fight with Skellingtons. I actually save items instead of selling them to people for this reason. I think decay takes away from the fun of the game, especially if it isn't the only one you play.
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"...but that's probably just the NyQuil talking."
[Aug 14, 2003 11:23:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.cutlassweb.com/    H311B0Y [Link]  Go to top 
Sowelu



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I'm really divided here. On one hand...If you've been doing very well in the game lately, sure, it's fun to have something else to spend the money on...and I think it WOULD be cool to get my clothes torn in a fight, or something.

But I agree on the general consensus, which is: It's bad enough as a captain, when you lose money on a bad day from rum and cannonballs... It's intolerable when as a *jobber* you lose money on a bad day, just from existing. There are days when I just want to sit around and talk with folks, or etch my name (a la Zorro) on a few newbies at the docks. Please, please don't make me suffer for it...When I do hard work, it's to advance, not to struggle to stay where I am.

On the other hand, have people been forgetting one very major upcoming money sink: Flag wars! Ships are going to sink! I'd be disappointed if clothes and maybe weapons WEREN'T lost! For people who have lots of money and bloodthirst, flag wars should be a great way of blowing it... Though I don't know where the money would go, for someone who's not interested in those.

It would be cool to have some more 'refined' toys to play with... Homes will come eventually I'm sure, palace improvements, etc... I know that if I was rich the way some players are, I'd spend plenty of money to boost my formal reputation through hosting balls and banquets and stuff. Big fancy EXPENDABLE ordeals, that give you something which can't be traded, some kind of social standing. Yeah, I'd go for that.
[Aug 15, 2003 7:39:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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Re: Recycling of used articles. Reply to this Post
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There needs to be both resource AND poe sinks in place. Think of the overall macro-economy as a closed system. There is a delicate balance of resources and poe that need to be in play at any time. The economy is currently designed as two antiparallel flows - one of income (poe) and one of resources and goods. Resources begin on islands where they are harvested, transported, and sent to shops. Certain shops take these "raw" resources and turn them into intermediary products, like dyes. As they move up the supply chain, they are turned into more and more finished products until they become end user products that player pirates (consumers) want to buy, like clothing and swords.

The other flow is in the opposite direction, player pirates pay poe for the finished goods, and in turn each link sends the income back down the chain, eventually reaching the people that harvested the resources. Each link takes their cut of the income, and returns it to the top of the chain by spending it on finished goods. So income is currently a circular flow - which is fine and good and makes it possible to have a sustainable flow of income. The problem with this is that there are brigands constantly injecting poe into the economy. With no outlet the only possibility is devaluation of the currency.

By far, the bigger problem, in my opinion -- and one that the devs seem to be at least aware of is the resource chain. Resources turn into finished goods - but there is no sink at the end of the chain for most resources (with the exception of those used in the production of rum and balls). There is a constant in flux of resources from harvesters, but no out flux. To avoid flooding the market, resource production has been kept low - so the in flux is fairly small. This makes resources seem scarce, and combined with too much inflow of currency from brigands has caused shortages and inflation.

The only long term solution is to create a sustainable flow of income and resources. Since the designers don't want to make a recycling economy, they need to have resource sinks, like having items decay so they take resources out of the economy. Income already has a recycling component, so there are two possible solutions, either eliminate brigands and make it PvP only, or create sufficient sinks to balance the in flux.

Keep in mind that the in flux does not neccessarily need to balance the out flux. As new players join, the entire economy needs to grow - so the in flux needs to be bigger. If the player base were to shrink for any reason, the out flux should be bigger to balance.
[Aug 17, 2003 2:33:38 AM] Show Printable Version of Post   [Link]  Go to top 
Soma



Joined: May 14, 2003
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As I've said, I'm not entirely against the idea of item degradation so much as the planned effect (at this point). In the past, it was mentioned that things would eventually turn to rags or foils and be unrecoverable. For one, that's TOO much of a sink (both poe and resource) for a fragile economy to handle. Allowing for true repair would function nicely as a sink in both measures, decreased overall need for commodities in repair (though still needed to some extent), and a moderate out for poe in the system. This seems totally workable to me, though not the overall easy out (on a design standpoint) of simple (near) item-death.
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Soma
Castaway of Alpha
Survivor of Old Spice & Nyx's Scions
Officer of Black Death
[Aug 17, 2003 8:52:44 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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Re: Recycling of used articles. Reply to this Post
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Indeed, items degrading -- but not disappearing completely is a good way to go. Then you expend resources to repair them, or ditch them and get replacements. Still doesn't address the poe sink, however.

There needs to be a way to remove the money injected by brigands, or eliminate them. Otherwise inflation will always be a problem. Eliminating the Brigands would tend to force a large portion of pirates to "go legit" and participate in the economy in a typical "western civilization" manner. Trading resources and working in shops...

If we want to keep piracy of the non-PvP type alive, then a poe sink is in order.
[Aug 17, 2003 10:05:07 AM] Show Printable Version of Post   [Link]  Go to top 
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