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AvaPoet



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Crow's Nest Reply to this Post
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It would be really, really useful if, instead of having to "shout down", an Officer in a Crow's Nest could place an order to engage, helping to stop the persistent problem where a ship zips past an equally fast ship and can't attack before they fly by it (which is, in the end, exactly what the Crow's Nest should be there to solve).

Of course, this would require the ability to begin persuing a more distant target than is currently possible, but I'd recommend this anyway: all too often I click a target just within my viewing range as a Navigator only to find that it's out of range, but not discover this in time to click again!

Thinking.
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[Jan 10, 2003 1:13:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.avangel.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
Hanzii



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How about turning the crows nest into a puzzle.
Right now this is the only position on a ship, that doesn't earn you any 'experience'. If it's also hard to use good - as stated above - then getting people to man the crows nest won't be easy or that usefull.
A assume the ships you meet are either player crewed pirate ships (and trading ships later) and other ships based on some random process.

So perhaps the crows nest puzzle could increase the chances of spotting and engaging a good target and during the chase it could help generate tokens like sailing (spotting the enemys actions help predicting their movements making capture easier)
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[Jan 10, 2003 9:39:38 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.lauring.net [Link]  Go to top 
AvaPoet



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Not sure if I agree with me good man and best gunner, here. Tough call.

However, the dev team haven't commented on this thread yet, I'll post this message so it get's flagged as "updated" to them, and they pay attention. <smiles broadly>

I'm a cheeky bu**er, really, aren't I?
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[Jan 16, 2003 3:43:17 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.avangel.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
loftling



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Crow's nest plans Reply to this Post
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I think the plan for the crow's nest is to allow officers to have the standard ship controls (set sail, turn about, attack) while in the crow's nest.
[Jan 16, 2003 4:00:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
AvaPoet



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Fast Response Reply to this Post
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Fast response. Thank ye kindly.
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[Jan 16, 2003 4:01:53 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.avangel.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
Rengor



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Re: Crow's Nest Reply to this Post
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Arrr! I'll be a happy man the day that change is added! Good news thank ye!
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[Jan 16, 2003 5:25:25 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Cob



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Arr! I've got it! Add a puzzle to the crow's nest that must be solved before a ship can be put into port!

I mean, you can't dock without someone yelling, "land ho!" right? :o)

-Squidbeard.
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-Squidbeard
[Jan 16, 2003 6:07:06 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.squid.org/ [Link]  Go to top 
AvaPoet



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Actually Reply to this Post
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Actually, putting a frigate into port isn't so hard. You just pull alongside the docks, throw some ropes overboard (and, if there's nobody on the dockside to pick them up, throw some people overboard, too), and pull it in.

Where there isn't a port it's even easier. Just drop anchor and take a rowboat over the side. Wooden sailing ships tended to have rope rigging for this very purpose.

I like the crows nest as it is - once it can actually be made useful. There is a trade off - does the captain want to sacrifice a potential Sailor, Bilger, Gunner or Carpenter to go up a pole and watch for ships, or would he rather risk using his eyes (or his telescope - now there's an object that could be implemented; or perhaps bought for yer crow's nest, allowing you to, say, identify the flag of ships at a greater distance, or the type and number of ships in a port before you reach it) from the deck? It's a job he'd only want to give somebody he trusts, too... and in the end, it's the interpersonal relationships that make this kind of game so fascinating.
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[Jan 16, 2003 6:17:21 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.avangel.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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Re: Actually Reply to this Post
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AvaPoet wrote: 
It's a job he'd only want to give somebody he trusts, too... and in the end, it's the interpersonal relationships that make this kind of game so fascinating.


I entirely agree... also,

AvaPoet wrote: 
telescope - now there's an object that could be implemented; or perhaps bought for yer crow's nest, allowing you to, say, identify the flag of ships at a greater distance, or the type and number of ships in a port before you reach it) from the deck?


Look for special items eventually. These abilities right now can be found in a few of the concepts for special items, including telescopes.
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[Jan 16, 2003 6:51:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
AvaPoet



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How about... Reply to this Post
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How about...

Being able to kit one of yer sloops out with trawl nets, and go fishing. Fill the hold with Fish (a Commodity), and sell it. Ideally, there'd be some good spots for fishing, and they'd move around... and a Fishing puzzle...

=o)
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[Jan 16, 2003 7:13:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.avangel.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
Meghaford



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Arr, sounds good... but who's going to buy fish? (do dead fish make good familiars? :o)
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... and a few others ...
[Jan 16, 2003 12:28:21 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.rjmlb.com [Link]  Go to top 
AvaPoet



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Sighs Reply to this Post
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You'd sell them to fishmongers (NPPs) to earn money!

Plus, there are lots of useful things we extract from fish which may be needed by other traded. Isinglas, a form of gelatin, is made by crushing the gall bladder of the chinese sturgeon, and to this day is used in the pharacutical industry, in making almost all photographic film (take that, you ethical-vegetatians!), and in the fining process of many wines and some spirits. It also keeps eggs fresh for a long, long time.

From some fish and octopi we extract various inks and dyes (we tend to use more man-made dyes these days, but at one point, particually in seafaring cultures, this is where our Dyes came from). What colour did you want your clothes today?

Plus, I would love it so much if there were seagulls on the docks which flew off to circle incoming fishing ships. Where ARE the seagulls, anyway? I've been at sea for weeks and seen not one!
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[Jan 16, 2003 10:36:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.avangel.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
homullus

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The dye thing brings up a good point . . . if the idea is to economize (make part of the economy, American spelling) everything, clothing manufacture would be a prime candidate. Certain colors are obviously in demand more than others, already in the alpha. . . if each color were a dye that had to be acquired by puzzles of various difficulty, there would be a steady trade in them, especially if the desirable colors (i.e., black) were difficult to come by, because the puzzles are hard, the locations are distant, or they are in turn combinations of other colors that are also hard to puzzle and distant from Alpha. A shipment of black dye would be quite a prize . . .
[Jan 16, 2003 11:16:34 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    homullus [Link]  Go to top 
Ramirez



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I am a total sucker for fishing games. It shames me to admit it. Now, I'm not talking about actual "Bassmaster" games, but fishing minigames within other games. Zelda? I fished. Dark Cloud? Fished more. EverQuest? FishingQuest. I can't explain it, but I just... kept... hitting... the fish button.

PP is addicting enough, so I plead to you, do not make the game that much more compelling! Do not add a fishing puzzle, as I would enjoy it entirely too much.

;)
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It's seven leagues to Turtle Island. We've got a full cask of rum, half a keg of gunpowder, it's dark, and we're wearing eyepatches. Hit it.
[Jan 17, 2003 12:33:31 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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Mm.... fishing Reply to this Post
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We've often discussed fishing, often in the context of the fine history of embedded fishing games mentioned by Ramirez. I think it's an eventuality.
One thing we're trying to steer clear of, however, is food. At least as a necessity, in a fun, casual gaming world like Y!PP, it could only wind up being an artificial hindrance. It may wind up being included as a delicacy or something, but then, why? Food can only be enjoyed in person, and restricting player activity to the basic needs of food (a la Sims hunger meter) is inconsistent with the game.
A lot of good points have been made for the uses of fish other than nourishment. Most wind up being too specific or complex, but certainly dye is a compellingly useful, simple resource. Currently, most dyes come from herbs, I believe. So far, the only non-herb dye source I know of is the Kraken. If you want sexy, trendy, impressive black duds, you'd best be prepared for either a hefty price tag, or a big, suction-cuppy hug of the not-so-friendly kind.
So, fish-as-commodity could certainly work, and most likely will be in there. But not yet. Commerce, politics, and other big, scary things like that have to happen first.
Until then, find your fish in the bilge. Oh, and your seagulls roosting on the shipyards... for now.

-Nemo
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[Jan 17, 2003 3:07:04 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
shellyanne



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Dyes also come from roots, berries, herbs, Flowers, Trees, squid, vegetable dyes, purple-producing mollusks,Shells, animal dyes, metallic salts, rocks/minerals.
The latter could maybe be found while mining, if we have mining that is.
[Jan 17, 2003 7:39:36 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Meghaford



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and rare ingredients can be found on mysterious fog shrouded islands...
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... and a few others ...
[Jan 17, 2003 9:42:08 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.rjmlb.com [Link]  Go to top 
shaper



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Ramirez wrote: 
I am a total sucker for fishing games. It shames me to admit it. Now, I'm not talking about actual "Bassmaster" games, but fishing minigames within other games. Zelda? I fished. Dark Cloud? Fished more. EverQuest? FishingQuest. I can't explain it, but I just... kept... hitting... the fish button.


Have you played Animal Crossing on the Gamecube yet? I've just started, and have seen fish-like silhouettes milling about in the river, but haven't yet earned my rod. I'm looking forward to it!

I also fished extensively in Zelda, and caught a large fish indeed, though not the largest I heard tell of among my friends.

It's the wriggling of the fish that's so enthralling, or the mystery of the reward that lies at the end of a skillful cast. It's appealing in vaguely the same sort of way as the women in Dead or Alive: Xtreme Beach Volleyball. Well, not the same way at all really, but you know, it's the physics modelling, or something.

- Walter
[Jan 17, 2003 8:44:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
AvaPoet



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Economics & Marketing Reply to this Post
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The latter could maybe be found while mining, if we have mining that is.


I presume (hope) so; otherwise where will the ironmonger's ferite and the goldsmith's gold come from?

If the ecomony is to be player-driven, it must be possible for players to persue careers outside of piracy and plunder. I'd quite like to see farmers, too (buy seeds and a plot of land, solve the farming puzzle, wait a couple of days, solve the reaping puzzle, sell the crop)... after all, where will the hops come from to make grog, and the grapes to make wine?

A player-driven economy is what provides the self-perpetuating fascination with MMORPGs such as Ultima Online, and, I'll bet, the upcoming The Sims Online. To compete, this game will have to have an economy to match or beat these.

I wonder if the dev. team have considered yet the potential implications of finite currency? If there were only a defined number of coins in the Ocean (based upon number of players), it would be possible for a number of influencial Flags to "hoard" money in an attempt to crash the economy - either by causing a shortage of cash or by forcing the banks to mint more, thereby devaluing the coin?

Just a thought.
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[Jan 17, 2003 11:55:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.avangel.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
shellyanne



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Ooo I'd like to be a little pirate farmer!

And as to gold hoarding, thats where they will have to come up with alot of good gold sinks..ship upgrades, house upgrades, neat stuff for ships and houses, ect.
[Jan 18, 2003 4:40:14 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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Oh my, my, my. Naturally, we are hard at work on creating a balanced, player driven economy with, yes, finite gold. Of course, we always reserve the omnipotent right to do whatever needs to be done, but, as Shellyanne pointed out, there will be lots of gold sinks. Look at all the clothes you guys already have! And that's just clothes! (Oh, and there'll be more clothes too!)
As for farming and mining! No food. There will be hemp for cloth, sugar for rum, herbs for all sorts of things, trees for lumber, rock for... rock, and ore for iron. I think that's all the basic commodities so far.
I'm sure Cleaver will have something to say about the manner in which goods in the field are acquired by production-minded pirates. I'm not quite up on that part of the process. However, it should be entirely possible to be a non-plunder-driver pirate. You can be a merchant, a craftsman, or even a sailor in the naval fleet of a Flag or merchant house. And, as has been mentioned in previous posts, eventually puzzles will drive most non-dialogue player activities.

So, get excited for commerce, ye peaceful-minded pirates. And for those of a more belligerent sort, get excited anyway: more pansies to pillage and more goodies to gain!

-Nemo
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[Jan 19, 2003 3:32:46 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Rengor



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HUUGE post Nemo - if there's something I like to read it's about the future features in the game.

I would love to have you guys have a list of future enhancements somewhere. I know very few games have that, since that makes it a commitment and a huge expectation.

But games like Ultima Online have done it with good results, since players are able to take those enhancements apart and find potential exploits, or point out balance issues.

Ofcourse for those of you who played UO for ages, there's jokes like Necromancy that was planned 5 years ago that is only now being implemented ;)

But we're still a small crowd here, so killing off some features or postponing them wont create a bloodthirsty crowd like Ive seen in the SWG beta.
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[Jan 19, 2003 4:03:12 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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hee hee Reply to this Post
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I think the Captain is fond of this slow reveal approach to information. He's a bit dramatic. Remember we're in Alpha right now. Once we hit Beta, we'll probably be more forthcoming (but then, a lot will be in place by then). There will always be new things coming, and the posters to this forum will always have an influence on what transpires.
So, we'll let you know a lot of things, like commerce, but you should expect some surprises too.

-Nemo
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[Jan 19, 2003 4:36:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
AvaPoet



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Brilliant Reply to this Post
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Brilliant. As always, I'm impressed by this kind of post.

Yeh; Rengor - I helped Beta Ultima Online... that was a giggle. By comparison, the Puzzle Pirates Alpha seems LESS buggy. You scared yet?

As for farming, I've had a thought for a puzzle for "Harvesting Rye". Did you ever play a game called "Mower Man" in the 80's, in which the aim was to push a mower around a lawn in the most efficient manner (unlike Snake, you CAN cross your tail, but it's wasteful and loses you points) without hitting walls or dogs or flowers etc. Perhaps something like that. Or perhaps not.

Mining seems like an obvious excuse for a "Boulderdash"-esque puzzle game. But that's still under copyright, so you didn't hear me suggest that. <ahem>
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[Jan 19, 2003 6:28:36 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.avangel.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
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Crafting, Mining, Farming Reply to this Post
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Oh my, I am very excited by our ideas here, but I am going to be tight-lipped (and I may have to stuff Nemo in the hold in a sack at some point, if he's not careful) for exactly the reason you alude to; we don't want to set the expectations that 'all these fantastic things' are going to be in the game real soon now; even if we can see a clear *design* path to them, by the time we get to implementation other things may have changed, and it could be some time in the future. We just don't know, yet...

Having said all that I am taking due note of player's enthusiasm for being involved at the base-level of the economy (e.g. mining) and we may make such things even more player-driven. We would want puzzles for these things, though, which is lots more work; unlikely to make the first cut, but something we could drop in later. Remember that we have a 'spiral development' model here; we take a first pass at something, try it out, and then come back to it later to refine.

BTW obviously I am a huge fan of the player-driven economy, along with politics is the essence of YPP's high-level gameplay. UO really led the way here, and I think Star Wars is going to be an interesting refinement. The Sims Online, however, was very disappointing to me; from cursory inspection it seems like they've not got any further than the equivalent of our 'pillage some NPPs and get the magic 'hidden on board' gold'. 'Cept tis Pizza not pillage.

So if you're wondering where the updates have gotten to in the next few weeks, remember that we're trying to build an economy from the ground up, one that'll actually make sense. Tricky! Fun.

- Cleaver
[Jan 20, 2003 3:19:44 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.puzzlepirates.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
Nemo
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Do you see what I get for providing you faithful players with news! Me, a science pirate of such repute! Still, he has a point. A sharp one and it's on the end of a very shiny sabre...
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[Jan 20, 2003 3:50:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
AvaPoet



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Thanks for the updates... just keep up the good work, Nemo...

/emote slips Nemo a sack of pieces of eight
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Ava
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[Jan 20, 2003 2:06:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.avangel.com/ [Link]  Go to top 
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