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tanonev

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YPPedia Proposal page

I got the idea for this after someone asked whether there was any dice game that relied more on skill than luck :)
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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[May 14, 2007 10:26:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
Aenor

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Very interesting concept, sounds like it might work for construction.

One problem, though: When you roll a cube you roll every cube that column or row, but you can only see the unfolded form of your currently selected cube. If you can't see the effects of your roll on the other cubes, then it becomes a game that is very reliant upon either memory or luck.
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Mat on the Meridian Ocean

Thank you to everyone who loves Blacksmithing!
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tcarr

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It looked to me as if you could highlight each cube in a row or column then go back to one of them and click your W, A, S, or D. Thinking about what would need to be moved to match the pattern gives me a headache - which means it's likely a decent puzzle. I look forward to seeing a storyboard with images, which will give me a better feel for it.

Certainly the Level 1 with all cubes having the same faces will be do-able. A level 2 where each cube has 2 different faces (3 and 3 in some combination?) would be doable as well. All six different..... ick... unless we have a way to ourselves chose to freeze a cube so it doesn't rotate, just slide.
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LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
[May 14, 2007 11:24:32 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Dylan

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I can't quite put my finger on it, but something about the puzzle name might possibly be confusing.
[May 14, 2007 11:28:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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Thanks for the feedback :)

It might be possible to add a feature that you can hold Shift while rolling in one direction, and the dice will roll but no matches will be made, and upon releasing the shift key, the dice will "snap back," so the Shift key functions as a preview.

This solution only takes care of 4 out of 6 faces. As for the remaining two faces, it might be possible to introduce some sort of "glow" along the sides of the row or column being test rolled that show you the colors of those faces.
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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[May 14, 2007 11:29:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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Certainly the Level 1 with all cubes having the same faces will be do-able. A level 2 where each cube has 2 different faces (3 and 3 in some combination?) would be doable as well. All six different..... ick... unless we have a way to ourselves chose to freeze a cube so it doesn't rotate, just slide.


A level with all 36 cubes being 6-color would probably result in my brain exploding :P

What about levels in this manner:
Level 1: 36 solid
Level 2: 30 solid, 6 2-color (and new cubes drop in the same proportion)
Level 3: 24 solid, 12 2-color
Level 4: 24 solid, 9 2-color, 3 3-color
Level 5: 21 solid, 9 2-color, 6 3-color
Level 6: 18 solid, 12 2-color, 6 3-color
Level 7: 18 solid, 9 2-color, 6 3-color, 3 6-color
Level 8: 15 solid, 9 2-color, 9 3-color, 3 6-color
Level 9: 12 solid, 9 2-color, 9 3-color, 6 6-color

The storyboard will take a while to set up...I have to devote some time to schoolwork first :P
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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[May 14, 2007 11:37:52 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
tcarr

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*idea*

Have a narrow border on each of the faces, that shows what's on the adjacent face. Example:


We would want colors that contrast better than those of course, but if you look closely, you would be able to determine all but one face of the cube, without rotating it first.

just a suggestion o course.
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LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
[May 14, 2007 12:11:10 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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Ooh, I like that idea :D I foresee some colorblindness issues since those sides are too small to be patterned, but if we combine this with Shift-rolling, I think we can reveal all of the necessary information.
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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[May 14, 2007 12:19:29 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
tcarr

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Another possibility is a "magnifying glass tool". You pick it up, then hover over whatever tile you want to inspect. It shows all but the bottom face of the current cube.
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LordKalvan of Otherwhen, all oceans but mostly Midnight
[May 14, 2007 12:21:47 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
TBPOTN7

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Ooh, I like that idea :D I foresee some colorblindness issues since those sides are too small to be patterned, but if we combine this with Shift-rolling, I think we can reveal all of the necessary information.


well, as it happens to be im partially colourblind (as in i can see colours but i cant seperate a lot of colours) and as you say with only such a small part of the sides it wont be possible to recognize them, maybe theres an option for giving each colour a number (or a special sign) and if ye select a dice, the four side flip open upwards so ye can see them (with the colour and number) and if ye roll it it flips back to normal.. maybe an id, but maybe to complicated..
[May 14, 2007 12:27:26 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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I think the magnifying glass behavior boils down to also adding mouse controls (so hovering and moving the mouse becomes the equivalent of the arrow keys, and clicking and dragging becomes the equivalent of WASD).
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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[May 14, 2007 12:28:41 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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Paint and I don't get along very well, so instead of a storyboard, I tried making a rough prototype.

http://www.stanford.edu/~tanonev/ypp/carp1.htm

The JAR file includes the source, which is written in Java 6. You can save the JAR and HTM files to your machine, then edit the parameters inside the applet tag to get different die and pattern distributions.
boardFrequency is the relative frequency of 1-color, 2-color, 3-color, and 6-color dice, in that order, separated by spaces. Default is "1 0 0 0", or all 1-color dice.
patternFrequency is the relative frequency of easy, medium, and hard patterns, in that order, separated by spaces. Default is "1 0 0", or all easy patterns.

Scoring, freezing, and the narrow border around dice have not yet been implemented.
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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[Jun 27, 2007 1:50:42 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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Also:

All frequencies must be expressed as whole numbers. So if you want 2-color dice to be twice as common as 1-color dice, use "1 2 0 0".

The current pattern is on the left of the bar at the bottom. There are 15 patterns in all.

Making 3 of a kind does not clear dice.

If people need a Java 5 version, let me know and I'll recompile it.
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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[Jun 27, 2007 1:57:14 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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FYI, the version on the site is now Java 5 :)

Arrgh, I need an edit button xD
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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GigaClon



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try using inkscape for storyboard its better than paint
[Jun 27, 2007 9:04:55 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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Thanks for the tip on Inkscape, I'll check it out :)

I updated the JAR to include the colored borders around the dice. I also updated the Wiki proposal page. I'll start on the storyboard...soon...
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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Patetch

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I thought the dice were supposed to "roll" but stay in place? It looks more like the rows and columns are shifting instead, have I missed something somewhere? Maybe I have the wrong link, or have missed something saying that? (I apologize if I have.)

Also I noticed that the two color + is not clearing but the three color one is... Oh wait...
 
The current pattern is on the left of the bar at the bottom. There are 15 patterns in all.
I guess that means you have to do them in order - well that explains that then :p don't mind me.
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Pletoo of Sage
[Jun 28, 2007 7:40:56 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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They roll and shift at the same time. It's supposed to mimic how a die travels as it rolls. The default parameters, though, have only solid-color dice, so the rolling doesn't affect any of the dice. I'll see whether I can code an ASP script to allow you to change the parameters without having to download and modify the files.
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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[Jun 28, 2007 8:58:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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In the meantime, I've uploaded another HTML page with different parameters so you can see the full range of dice and patterns:
http://www.stanford.edu/~tanonev/ypp/carp2.htm
Also, you should clear your cache if the puzzle doesn't have the leftmost pattern highlighted in pink.
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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tanonev

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The prototype location has been changed: http://www.alpha-slash.com/ypp/carp1.asp
This one allows you to change the distribution of dice and patterns.
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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[Jun 29, 2007 4:51:28 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
jdnx429

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I've been playing this proposal quite a bit. I find it quite relaxing just making the patterns. Right now, it's pretty simple as we don't have to worry about scoring. I've also noticed that it's possible to do double or triple combos, but setting them is quite hard.
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Josephdaniel on Midnight.
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Jes_Roo

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Yipes! This game is fun, but quite difficult for me with multi-colored dice & medium difficulty shapes. It requires a lot of thinking ahead. I like it, though. It's definitely one that would be enjoyable from able to ultimate.

I think it would be a great construction puzzle analogy-wise, but it would have to be multi-player, right? Here's an idea:

A team would have to build a large structure, of which the small patterns are parts. Say the total structure requires 40 parts/patterns. Instead of having the patterns in order, just have all 15 available at once. The team would have to create each pattern to finish the whole structure, but would have to communicate which patterns they are working on so they aren't duplicated. The larger the team & the better the puzzlers, the more quickly the structure is finished. If we were building an entire house, then there would be several teams working on it at once, building different house structures. What do you think?

The graphics would be easy. Instead of colors, perhaps the sides could be building materials such as stone, wood, glass, brick, mortar, shingles, etc.
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JesRoo
First Mate of Eloquent & Princess of Cold Steel on Midnight
Owner of Jesroo's Ironworking and Apothecary Stalls on Gaea
 
You're in the pay of the Weaving Syndicate, you are! Hempmonger! - The Dread Pirate Chris

[Jul 2, 2007 11:04:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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OK, I updated the game to include scoring. I also updated the YPPedia article to include the scoring formula, including all of the pattern values. These pattern values were chosen before the game was actually working, so they need some massive adjustments. The hard patterns in particular are probably worth too little. I welcome suggestions for adjusting the various point values.

I like the idea of having a shared pattern pool for a multiplayer construction puzzle. I don't think all patterns can/should be active simultaneously, though. The pattern queue includes duplicates, and handling those simultaneously would be awkward. Instead, each team member could choose one target pattern from the pool, make it, then choose another one (and they could cancel a pattern for a point penalty if they choose one that's too difficult). The main thing that bugs me, though, is that it's still essentially a bunch of people puzzling by themselves, similar to the way making rum takes several units of labor that nonetheless come from disjoint puzzle sessions. Perhaps clearing a pattern on one board would also clear the dice at the same locations on all of the other boards. That might result in headaches though :P
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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[Jul 2, 2007 11:47:00 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    http://www.alpha-slash.com [Link]  Go to top 
Cady36



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Everyone will probably disagree with me :P but I never like the W-A-S-D thing - lol - I am really horrible at trying to control a game with my left hand, even though I touch-type. My fingers just won't do it!

How about Shift-Up, Shift-Left, Shift-Down, Shift-Right or Control-Up, Control-Left, Control-Down, Control-Right instead? Then you can switch between moving the cursor and moving the dice just by pressing the Shift or Control key.

Or maybe tap the space bar to switch from moving the dice to moving the cursor.

Just a thought.

Thanks,

Kaidi/Midnight
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GigaClon



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I can't get this to work in firefox, when use WASD its just opens the find-as-you-type box
[Jul 2, 2007 2:44:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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Sometimes Firefox acts up and thinks you're holding the Ctrl key even when you aren't. Try pressing and releasing Ctrl once, then clicking in the dice area and WASDing again.

I've also added some more key bindings: Instead of/in addition to WASD, you can use numpad 8, 6, 2, and 4 to roll up, right, down, and left respectively. You might need to clear your cache before the new key bindings take effect.
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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tanonev

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The latest version now has freezing enabled (in the metaphor, getting "nailed down"). In the box marked "Freeze Frequency," specify the percentage chance of a frozen die appearing. The frequency must be a whole number. Example: if you want a freeze after about half the pattern clears, enter "50" into the box.
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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CraftingProj

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Added to status board as Phase 5. Is this information correct?

Carp (Furnishing/Construction) Designer: Tanonev; Arrtist: Tanonev; Programmer: Tanonev Play now!
[Jul 4, 2007 5:05:35 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
tanonev

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I'm not much of an arrtist, but the info looks fine to me :)
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Tanonev on all oceans; currently exploring Meridian.
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Uikur

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This is a fun game. All that's missing is better graphics, some sound, and maybe a pattern queue where you see the # left.
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Just my thoughts.

Check out my proposal (Project Compere) here. Feedback and/or a coder is requested!

Irinam of Viridian.
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