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Ocxela



Joined: Nov 21, 2016
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Tradeable hours Reply to this Post
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A new commodity: the unused hours.
1- unused hours can only be made from a specific type of stall after the hours are maxed and was set to be maxed before.
2- maximum number of unused hours per week for each stall.
3- unused hour in the form of a bid ticket that can be traded.
4- open to suggestion.
[Nov 23, 2017 2:26:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

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So after they have used up all their labour, and stockpiled their max reserve labour you want to be able to spend the rest of your labour for "This is 1 hour of labour" chits you can cash in?

It's an interesting idea, but takes a bit of the skill out of managing your own employment. If your hours are being underused, you ought to find some new places to work, or do some foraging.

Is this not basically handled by "Increase the amount of reserve labour a shop/stall can hold"?
[Nov 23, 2017 2:48:26 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
GreatBob

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If we're talking about another safety net for lost hours, an individual reserve wouldn't be a bad idea. Set these hours so they are applied only to active puzzling, which would allow players to do a weekly foraging session or similar with what would have otherwise been wasted.

Buying and selling extra labour is an interesting idea, but I fear it would detract from the management aspect. Imagine people trying to buy and sell packs for sloops, or swords etc. There is also the bigger issue of tracking how much is paid for these hours.
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Penguinpaste, SO of Polaris, Obsidian. Dark side.


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[Nov 24, 2017 9:05:34 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Devonin

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The labour hours coudn't be fungible. It's definitely not good economically if I can generate "expert labour" hours on one puzzle by working at a place whose labour is maxed, and then sell those as expert labour to another whole kind of stall. You want expert labour to only be provided by experts at that puzzle.

It would have a pretty dramatic impact on the value of labour and pay for labour hours if expert at one puzzle made you expert at all of them.
[Nov 24, 2017 11:08:33 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Prammy16

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I was thinking of something similar to this thread, except instead of being able to get reserved labor like a bid ticket (which rightly notes that it's effectively simply increasing the reserved labor limit) , it would work just like any commodity and be put on the market. I could set a buy price, a sell price, and a maximum and minimum amount to have in stock. It would be puzzle-specific and type specific (Expert SW would be distinct from Expert Distilling, which would also be distinct from basic Distilling). I can think of a couple pros/cons:

Pros:
- It would allow people who want to push through large order/amounts of orders to do so quickly, rather than waiting a long time.
- It would be another avenue for a stall to make profit
- It would help evaluate the value of labor of a specific type, as you can check the market to see what people are willing to pay for a specific labor type. You can then use this to better decide what stalls are worth jobbing for.
- It would make the market more competitive (is this a con?), rather than having stalls sitting on max reserved labor but charging 50% more than normal cost, because stalls would be able to borrow from others to move things along.
- It most likely wouldn't break things with stalls buying 1000ish hours at a time to get around the max output of a stall, because supply/demand would push the price above what would be profitable to rely on.

Cons:
- It would still effectively raise the max amount of reserved labor (making the max equal to all the reserved labor put on the market, which would be huge), even if they had to pay a premium for it.
- It would allow even large ships to be delivered immediately, reducing the limitations on things like the number of WFs and GFs able to be produced on the ocean.
- It would introduce the ability to make multiple shipyards with alts and sell the reserved labor to your main SY to simply multiply your SY in every way except ability to order giant ships (hold capacity, labor output, rent, etc.)

While I do think there are more pros than cons, I think the last two cons are the most important of all. Currently, making multiple alts with their own SYs increases the total amount of rent you pay, and yet still does not in any way make you able to produce any one specific ship faster than if you just owned just one. This is part of the reason Shoppes are so good, because they can move faster than any stall can. To make stalls able to push through medium ships instantly, then, makes shoppes only valuable because they have a hold large enough to order WFs and the like at all, rather than also because smaller ships will be delivered faster.

TL;DR: Making reserved labor marketable would increase the value of traditional stalls, which is great for stall users but bad for shoppe owners.
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-Porglit on Emerald
-Shadetemplar on Obsidian
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[Edit 4 times, last edit by Prammy16 at Apr 6, 2018 9:23:53 AM]
[Apr 6, 2018 9:18:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Kyura94

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Sorry I know I'm not really adding to the feasibility/analysis of your idea but.. doesn't that just seem weird? The concept of Reserve Labour was weird enough, now you want it to be traded around.
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Ryuken on Obsidian (active) and Emerald (not really)
I made an in-depth Distilling guide here, and a guns one somewhere.
I gave Obsidian their Owls c:
[Apr 6, 2018 10:54:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Prammy16

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Sorry I know I'm not really adding to the feasibility/analysis of your idea but.. doesn't that just seem weird? The concept of Reserve Labour was weird enough, now you want it to be traded around.


To a degree, partly. I assumed it was preparing parts of the labor needed beforehand, like cutting wood to size and smoothing it for furniture stores, or making acid and different solutions and stuff needed for potions in apothecaries, or weaving the cloth together (and only need to quickly dye it the appropriate color and send it out when something is ordered) beforehand. These things would be tradable, in that you could say "hey, give me some prepared lumber for 40poe each", or "I need more peroxide, you have any extra lying around?"

Or maybe my PP imagination is a little too vivid for my own good?
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-Porglit on Emerald
-Shadetemplar on Obsidian
[Apr 6, 2018 12:53:49 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
HungryJack61



Joined: Sep 18, 2012
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To be honest, I don't like it.

First, I don't think there's anything wrong with the current system. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you find yourself constantly maxed on reserve labour at your stall, then you need to order from yourself more to sell dockside. If you're constantly finding that your personal labour hours are going unused, find a better place to work.

Second, while the idea could work, in theory, there isn't really an in-game system set up to do this. If players are looking to come up with ideas that they would like the OMs and devs to implement, the best way to do that is to come up with ideas that could function relatively easy within the system that already exists, because that means it requires significantly less time and fewer resources for the devs to add it to the game. I think this idea stray to far from the current system and would require a lot of time to make function properly.
[Apr 8, 2018 3:10:40 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Prammy16

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...there isn't really an in-game system set up to do this. If players are looking to come up with ideas that they would like the OMs and devs to implement, the best way to do that is to come up with ideas that could function relatively easy within the system that already exists, because that means it requires significantly less time and fewer resources for the devs to add it to the game. I think this idea stray to far from the current system and would require a lot of time to make function properly.


Dockside trading certainly already exists. If it can be bought/sold/set up just like a commodity, I don't see why you can't buy and sell it exactly like normal. It could be under "relevant commodities" and either be at the very top or very bottom of the list (since it's a little different than the rest), or else just add one more to the list already existing.

Either that, or you create another tab to the "Inventory, Buy/sell commodities, Market bidding" list, and have "Buy/sell reserved labor", which would have an interface identical to the commodities.

I don't think it would be very hard.
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-Porglit on Emerald
-Shadetemplar on Obsidian
[Apr 8, 2018 5:49:35 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Opsat



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Hmm... atm, I'm not convinced about this tradeable hours thing and lean more towards this:

 
If you find yourself constantly maxed on reserve labour at your stall, then you need to order from yourself more to sell dockside. If you're constantly finding that your personal labour hours are going unused, find a better place to work.


This is what I do.
On Obsidian where I don't have my own stalls, I rarely end up with unused hours. Why? Because everyday (as much as possible), I check the stalls I work for to make sure they have use for my labor. For example, if my skill at weaving is only basic, then I check to make sure that the weavery I work for will use basic labor, either for orders or reserved. If I find that the stall has no orders, or that they only need skilled and expert labor (which I can't provide), or that they don't need any reserved labor at all (all grayed out), then I quit that job and find another stall to work for. (I do the same for other stall types as well.) Doing this has been working well for me. The only time I have a few unused hours is that day my labor badge dusts. (Which, by the way, is why a while back, I asked if it's possible to queue up labor badges. https://forums.puzzlepirates.com/community/mvnforum/viewthread?p=2708328#2708328 )
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Opsat on all oceans.
(Also Opsat-East on Emerald and Meridian, and Opsat-West on Cerulean.)
And on Obsidian: Opsat, Meghost, and Meshadow.
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[Edit 2 times, last edit by Opsat at Apr 8, 2018 8:02:42 PM]
[Apr 8, 2018 7:52:19 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Prammy16

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Re: Tradeable hours Reply to this Post
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If you find yourself constantly maxed on reserve labour at your stall, then you need to order from yourself more to sell dockside. If you're constantly finding that your personal labour hours are going unused, find a better place to work.


It isn't about getting maxed reserve labor or not using personal labor hours... I happen to use all my hours and have plenty of orders. Instead, it's about the pros I mentioned in the OP. This isn't a fix of a broken issue, it's a suggestion for an addition.
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-Porglit on Emerald
-Shadetemplar on Obsidian
[Apr 9, 2018 7:21:59 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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