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majestrate

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Re: A reason to fight back Reply to this Post
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I don't agree that requiring the attacker to have an equivalent booty (which is inherently a moving target, remember)

It shouldn't be a 1:1 match. But it should be something significant based on the number of jobbers on the defending ship as well as the defending ship size.

 
Might curb sinks way too much. Grapple city.

Have a "PvP hold" that the attacker must put funds into in order to attack anyone. Upon the end of the battle, the "PvP hold" is auto-divvied among everyone on the defending ship, unless the defender disengages.

So, if the attacker sinks, grapples, or disengages, the pirates on the defending ship are paid. If the defenders grapple or sink, the pirates on the defending ship are paid.
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[Oct 26, 2017 11:45:00 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message    first_majestrate    majestrait [Link]  Go to top 
bronzebeard

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Re: A reason to fight back Reply to this Post
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Does any pillage fresh out of port carry any real risk? Yet they're guaranteed reward if they beat brigands. Yet time and again the suggestion is for PvPers to carry a wager against defenders who may have nothing. Really, we should make EVERYONE carry a wager aboard before they set sail, if we're going down the route of making things fair.

I'd hoped this thread might offer ideas of ways to reward defenders, but instead it's rife with ways to dissuade attackers.
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Peglegpaul
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[Oct 28, 2017 3:00:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: A reason to fight back Reply to this Post
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Does any pillage fresh out of port carry any real risk? Yet they're guaranteed reward if they beat brigands. Yet time and again the suggestion is for PvPers to carry a wager against defenders who may have nothing. Really, we should make EVERYONE carry a wager aboard before they set sail, if we're going down the route of making things fair.

I'd hoped this thread might offer ideas of ways to reward defenders, but instead it's rife with ways to dissuade attackers.


Most who leave port stock their ship for 1-3 hours of stock depending.
Sloops
50 R @90poe =4500
200 s @25 =5000

Leaving port with 9.5k worth stock

Attackers
10 rum 900
50 balls 1250

Leaves port with 2.125k worth of stock.
*Rough guesses the point is from port its the defender likely has 4-5 times what the attacker will invested. Every pirate stocks differently depending on what they are going to do.

I don't know how you can create a reason to fight back with out making the attacker put up some poe. Logic would tell you if they had equal or more to lose it would dissuade the attacker. That said the defender already has no reason to fight back other then ego.

They didn't ask to be attacked or they would be the attacker.
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Filthyjake all oceans, Primarily Obsidian
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Reciprocity:The practice of exchanging things with others for mutual benefit.
[Oct 28, 2017 7:30:58 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bronzebeard

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Re: A reason to fight back Reply to this Post
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I don't know how you can create a reason to fight back with out making the attacker put up some poe. Logic would tell you if they had equal or more to lose it would dissuade the attacker. That said the defender already has no reason to fight back other then ego.

Well one way would be the way I suggested back in the original post.
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Peglegpaul
Now on Obsidian!
[Oct 29, 2017 12:26:58 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
wrs1864b

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Re: A reason to fight back Reply to this Post
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Well one way would be the way I suggested back in the original post.

You mean the idea that is incredibly easy to exploit (i.e just start out each pillage winning a few fake PvPs!)? And, worse, your idea doesn't help the situations where the defender doesn't want to fight at all, e.g. shipping commods/fruit, trying to get to a SMH/expedition, etc.?

Yeah, I can't imagine a reason why the thread drifted away so quickly...
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[Oct 29, 2017 4:45:51 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: A reason to fight back Reply to this Post
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Here's an idea:
Every PvP ye win acts as a multiplier to yer booty. Nothing drastic - maybe a 10% boost each time? - but enough fer the defenders to fancy havin' a go, if they've got a hefty amount aboard. Maybe a larger boost if ye sink 'em too.

 
Well one way would be the way I suggested back in the original post.

Ok lets look at that.

Most times you look at the notice board you can see goals. A sloop can port with 100k booty baggies 200k.

If you at 10% boost each time as you said or even larger if a sink occurs.

That is a 10k boost to a sloop per pvp or 20k for a baggie

Now I have my friend come and attack me, and I sink them for the boost its not profitable. However if I am in WF with 1m the boost is (100k) more then a sloop is worth so I simply pay for the sloops and boost my booty. That is why its to exploitable. Not to mention SMH's most always port with large booties (around 1m).

Oh and objected to the pillages paying more into the game following your first post.
 
I don't think we need another poe fountain for pillages as they pay well. I do think we need the attacker to have more skin in the game to make one fight back. I have suggested in the past a certain amount in the booty that can be lost if they are grappled. I suggested 10k per pirate as if I am going to fight back I need a good pay day. The defender didn't look for the fight so the attacker should have more to lose in my opinion. This will also create a poe sink if either vessel is sunk.

If they add to much poe into the game it will cause inflation, that is why they nerfed the greedie purses and Lantis runs. If the poe comes from the attacker its already in the game so its not much more then a wager and a great poe sink if a sink happens which counters inflation.

The reason the post became about a stick or a rotten carrot is the attacker has the large advantage when you equal it out its less appealing to attack. Seeing that the defender wasn't looking for the pvp they are likely to flee.

Now take poe out of it and if they made special trophies for defeating attackers people will exploit it but it also may trigger a few to fight back for the trophy, however I think it will be a small group. Its like the hair of the dog trophy not really worth it in my opinion unless your a trophy chaser.
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Filthyjake all oceans, Primarily Obsidian
Price Cap Doubloons for long term success of Puzzle Pirates Dub oceans!
Reciprocity:The practice of exchanging things with others for mutual benefit.
[Oct 29, 2017 5:59:27 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
bronzebeard

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Re: A reason to fight back Reply to this Post
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I'm aware of the exploit within the idea which is why I mentioned that in the original post with the hope that someone might help hammer out the flaw, but ideally not in a way that is another obstacle for PvP.

So, here's a revision: what if the boost you got was related to the level of the attacking crew whose ship you manage to beat, with say, Sailors/Mostly Harmless having no effect, up to a sizeable bost for an Imperial crew? That way, if it's just some crew that's used to throw fights, they're probably going to be low ranked, and no good for that purpose.

And yes, I'm sure someone determined could then have two additional crews, using one to increase the rank of the one that throws fights to the pillages, but I'm also sure people who are caught cheating like that could just be banned too (and if they are permanently banned - that's a PoE sink!).

The other issue: inflation. If the typical payouts from this are similar to having one more fight against brigands, well that booty (from brigands) is being magicked up anyway, so I don't think it's a huge issue to have a similar fountain if it makes the game more fun.



Completely separate, why don't we have a PvP league yet (there used to be a great third-party one many moons ago). This could at least provide some motivation not to flee, if the points were based around who won, who shot the other most, who grappled, who fled, etc. Special items or trophies only available to the most successful crews. Of course, if not tied to PoE, a lot of people still won't care, but that's just the way some people are.
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Peglegpaul
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by bronzebeard at Oct 29, 2017 9:22:52 AM]
[Oct 29, 2017 9:19:39 AM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
Filthyjake

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Re: A reason to fight back Reply to this Post
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Release 2017-11-03

 
Winning PvP battles against the opposing faction will now award everyone aboard the vessel an untradeable faction trinket. These trinkets will be used to purchase faction-related equipment at the Trading Post in the future, so start stockpiling now!

Adding initial set of trophies related to Faction PvP. The conditions will need to be discovered by players!


Here is hoping they made a successfully defended trophy series.
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Filthyjake all oceans, Primarily Obsidian
Price Cap Doubloons for long term success of Puzzle Pirates Dub oceans!
Reciprocity:The practice of exchanging things with others for mutual benefit.
[Nov 6, 2017 7:23:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post        Send Private Message [Link]  Go to top 
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